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Can we get some numbers?
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Since you asked... (actually, this should have been done before.)
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Here is a complete list of all powers which have DropToggles associated with them and the percentage chance of the attribute taking place.
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Beautiful list.
Now we just need the corresponding list that shows all the other powers that have some percentage chance of dropping toggles with mez effects.
e.g. Total Focus can drop all toggles with disorient, but what is the % chance of that happening?
I think only sleep, hold, and disorient drop toggles, right?
So.. in other words, my regen has been buffed.. and my em has been nerfed?
I guess i'll take that! 
(made me feel godly after it took a stalker 5 AS's to knock off a single toggle)
I am sorry for those of you who liked this mechanic, but I have disliked it from the day it was introduced. And yes, I have characters it could have benefited. Toggle dropping was an absolutely pathetic solution to some of the problems of PvP in this game.
Don't think I'm saying toggle dropping might have kept your AT of choice from being gimp. Maybe it did (or in the case of Dominators, maybe it kept you from being utterly gimp). But maybe now, based on how things play out with toggle dropping being a vastly less dependable mechanism other more enjoyable balances can be found.
My opinion: the Blasters that were dangeous with toggle dropping are still incredibly high DPS monsters, and with a team supporting them with mez protection and possibly defense/DR buffs, they will still be highly dangerous to melee ATs. They will still be devastating to non-melee ATs. Remember, this game's PvP is supposed to be about team viability, not solo viability. Toggle dropping made certain Blasters (and to a lesser extent, Stalkers) capable soloists.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Thanks for posting the list and numbers, _Castle_. It is appreciated.
That said...Holy crap. My Blaster fire sword went from 100% to 5%?!?!1?!?!?one1!!?!?! Talk about a nerf!
We knew the % was going down, but 95%? This is another solid blow to non /em blasters, who dont have the stuns or high bi's in their secondary. Before when taking on the big boys (brutes, tanks, scraps) I knew I could either drop his status protection and hold him OR at least weaken his resistance and/or defense. Now? I have a 1/20 chance of doing this.
I understand the % had to drop, but to such an extreme hurts non /em blasters who dont have stuns, total focus, and power boost to compensate.
Look at my sig. What do you think will happen to that 60% now? All aboard, going DOWN.
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Thanks for posting the list and numbers, _Castle_. It is appreciated.
That said...Holy crap. My Blaster fire sword went from 100% to 5%?!?!1?!?!?one1!!?!?! Talk about a nerf!
We knew the % was going down, but 95%? This is another solid blow to non /em blasters, who dont have the stuns or high bi's in their secondary. Before when taking on the big boys (brutes, tanks, scraps) I knew I could either drop his status protection and hold him OR at least weaken his resistance and/or defense. Now? I have a 1/20 chance of doing this.
I understand the % had to drop, but to such an extreme hurts non /em blasters who dont have stuns, total focus, and power boost to compensate.
Look at my sig. What do you think will happen to that 60% now? All aboard, going DOWN.
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Well.. we should just stop complaining now... before all non "squishies" get the nerf bat... 
Here is how I think you interpret those numbers.
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Defender Force Field: Force Bolt: 8% and 2% for 1 Toggle; 0.16% chance of 2 Toggles
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There are two separate dice rolls for dropping toggles. The first has an 8% chance of dropping a toggle. The second has a 2% chance of dropping a toggle. The chance that they both hit is
0.08 * 0.02 = 0.0016 or 0.16%
So your chance of dropping two toggles is 0.16%.
The chance that only one of them hits is
0.08 + 0.02 - 0.0016 = 0.0984 or 9.84%
So the net result is you have a 9.84% chance of dropping one toggle and a 0.16% chance of dropping two toggles.
Here is another example just so you see the pattern:
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Defender Force Field: Repulsion Bomb: 27% and 5% for 1 Toggle; 1.35% chance of 2 Toggles
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Chance of dropping 1 Toggle = 27% + 5% - 1.35% = 30.65%
Chance of dropping 2 Toggles = 1.35%.
On a side note, I think some of the numbers in this table are wron. Consider:
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Defender Storm Summoning: Thunder Clap: 12% and 2% for 1 Toggle; 0.4% chance of 2 Toggles
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0.12 * 0.02 = 0.0024 or 0.24% but the number in the table is 0.4%. I am guessing there is a typeo somewhere in the Thunder Clap numbers.
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Once again _Castle_, your a gentleman and scholar. Thanks for taking the time posting those numbers for us. As for the numbers themself, I know Im quite satisfied with them. I think it makes for a more health PVP evironment.
And to the ppl displeased with Doms. Think of it like this. How long does it take you to recharge you best toggle droppping power? I know for my Dom, TF recharges pretty fast considering. And Doms are made the "kings" of toggle dropping after I7. I think that in itself is pretty flattering.
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Are you kidding me? TF takes like three years to animate, and unless you have recharge reduction or hasten it takes 20 seconds to recharge. TF is the worst one, lol. Blaze and Psy Shockwave are probably the best ones now - short animations, shorter recharges, and PSW is PBAoE.
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That may be an issue for you, but I have 2 rch + hasten for TF and its fine. When I get FPO's (Freedom Phalanx Origins), Ill have 3 rch in the power to make it rechange even faster.
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Once again _Castle_, your a gentleman and scholar. Thanks for taking the time posting those numbers for us. As for the numbers themself, I know Im quite satisfied with them. I think it makes for a more health PVP evironment.
And to the ppl displeased with Doms. Think of it like this. How long does it take you to recharge you best toggle droppping power? I know for my Dom, TF recharges pretty fast considering. And Doms are made the "kings" of toggle dropping after I7. I think that in itself is pretty flattering.
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Are you kidding me? TF takes like three years to animate, and unless you have recharge reduction or hasten it takes 20 seconds to recharge. TF is the worst one, lol. Blaze and Psy Shockwave are probably the best ones now - short animations, shorter recharges, and PSW is PBAoE.
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That may be an issue for you, but I have 2 rch + hasten for TF and its fine. When I get FPO's (Freedom Phalanx Origins), Ill have 3 rch in the power to make it rechange even faster.
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That'd suck your end dry pretty fast 
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Once again _Castle_, your a gentleman and scholar. Thanks for taking the time posting those numbers for us. As for the numbers themself, I know Im quite satisfied with them. I think it makes for a more health PVP evironment.
And to the ppl displeased with Doms. Think of it like this. How long does it take you to recharge you best toggle droppping power? I know for my Dom, TF recharges pretty fast considering. And Doms are made the "kings" of toggle dropping after I7. I think that in itself is pretty flattering.
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I'm the one-eyed king in the land of the blind. Weee.
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Blaster: Devices: Trip Mine: 5% for 1 Toggle
Blaster: Devices: Time Bomb: 19% for 1 Toggle
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This is completely ridiculous by the way. It's *so* hard to hit someone with a time bomb, it's unbelievable. If they detonate when a trip mine sitting next to them blows, then I could see them being at 22% with the others, but as it is, they should do 100% drops still. Out of every 20 time bombs I set, I'm lucky if one hits.
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I know that these figures might not be right amd will wait to see the confirmed numbers for trip mine and timb bomb, but again the fact that it is these two powers which are our toggle droppers is a joke. In my opinion give taser a toggle drop and drop it from time bomb.
I had high hopes that we might finally see some attention for devices in Issue 7. Afterall it was months ago that Castle visited the blaster section and the issues were discussed in depth in a consolidated thread. Time bomb is all but a worthless power. It can do all the damage in the world and I still wouldn't take it as it is situational at best in pve and pointless in pvp.
Well, there goes any chance my blaster had of ever taking on a tanker or scrapper. Heck, I was lucky to get them below half health before this. At least when I'm fighting in RV the worst thing I'll have to go up against are stalkers and brutes.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think this is gonna help balance PVP at all.
I, for one, welcome our new */Energy Melee Tanker overlords.
Seriously though, I think there needs to be a happy medium. Suggestions to make travel powers somehow ignored in calculating a toggle drop would probably go a long way towards making it seem worth a squishy's time to even attempt toggle dropping.
Realistically speaking, the toggle that most people want to drop is the mez protection as that leaves the melee character most vulnerable. Let's take a look at the practical percentages for this happening now versus various "standard" builds.
Best case scenario of one squishy villain trying to drop one melee hero's mez protection... */Psychic Dominator vs. */Regeneration Scrapper:
Scrapper is only running Integration with no other toggles.
Dominator has a 64% chance of dropping Integration with Psychic Shockwave.
Scrapper is running Integration/Combat Jumping.
Dominator has a 32% chance of dropping Integration with Psychic Shockwave.
Scrapper is running Integration/Combat Jumping/Sprint
Dominator has a 21.3% chance of dropping Integration with Psychic Shockwave.
If the system ignored travel powers while determining what gets dropped, then 64% seems a good chance, but just running two low cost toggles effectively cuts all chances of dropping an important toggle very dramatically.
I predict this will just further reinforce the behavior of all archetypes ignoring the melee classes in order to attack the non-melee ones. Well, with the exception of Stalkers, perhaps.
Oh, and it will also make controllers seem more powerful yet again since the only reliable toggle dropping will be through stacking holds, disorients, or sleeps.
Rock, paper, scissors indeed.
This is exactly what everyone has been asking for and exactly what was, in my opinion, very necessary. The chance to drop them is still there! It's just not guaranteed. There should never be one dynamic of a system that is counted on for a chance at success. If toggle dropping was a characters sole chance to be effective, then I think you need to be looking for a bigger problem here.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
Just wait for it. The toggle dropping Accolade or IOP or invention system adding to this. +5%/10% to toggle dropping. I see them ramping up for this type of stuff in the future. Its easy for them to start really low then reward players for play time with "extra" bonuses.
Welcome to MMO PVP. Whoever screams "WE SUCK" the loudest gets to be next months kings of pvp. It's basically one giant slow-motion ping pong tourney.
-Tsoo
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fighting brutes tended to be a very evenly matched fight before, and I think I'm in real trouble now. *sigh*
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Yeah, it was real fun fighting fotm Blasters that could detoggle multiple defenses with every other hit. You'd spend the entire fight retoggling, while not gaining any significant Fury in the process. Good riddance.
Get some range and <gasp> Blast.
A change was needed indeed, but this is way too much. Come on, Tunderclap hurdly does anything in pve and absolutely nothing in pvp. 12% toggle drop is a joke.
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If toggle dropping was a characters sole chance to be effective, then I think you need to be looking for a bigger problem here.
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"FF is working as intended."
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Welcome to MMO PVP. Whoever screams "WE SUCK" the loudest gets to be next months kings of pvp. It's basically one giant slow-motion ping pong tourney.
-Tsoo
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Heh yup.
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Welcome to MMO PVP. Whoever screams "WE SUCK" the loudest gets to be next months kings of pvp. It's basically one giant slow-motion ping pong tourney.
-Tsoo
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Heh yup.
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I wonder how come Dominators aren't Kings of PvP then 
I KNOW we (well, I) whine more than that.
OK 2 points I'll make really quick
1. In my limited pvp experiences on test post I7 heroes have not had any trouble taking down my brute.
2. Scrappers have only a 5% chance to score a crit and those seem reliable enough to very often turn the tides of battle against many defense based toons. Granted blasters cannot take as many hits as scrappers can, this will be on average 4 times more common and blasters do have a damage advantage on scrappers.
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Welcome to MMO PVP. Whoever screams "WE SUCK" the loudest gets to be next months kings of pvp. It's basically one giant slow-motion ping pong tourney.
-Tsoo
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Heh yup.
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I wonder how come Dominators aren't Kings of PvP then I KNOW we (well, I) whine more than that.
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Issuse 8 FoTM prediction:
Mind/Energy Dom
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
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I wonder how come Dominators aren't Kings of PvP then I KNOW we (well, I) whine more than that.
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The dynamic actually has less to do with the volume of screaming than it does with which ATs the developers actually trouble themselves to listen to/communicate with. For instance, Scrapper issues consistently get committed followup from TPTB, while it took Defenders months to get _Castle_ just to look at their issues list, most of which he blew off without much explanation beyond "working as intended".
Not that I'm bagging on _Castle_, here -- he's a good guy. But he's just one guy, and judging by what we've seen over the last two years you'd be a fool to believe that TPTB don't give preferential attention to certain ATs.
Clearly Toggle Drops are something that is supposed to occur int he course of a fight rather than being the focus of a fight. That's okay by me, but I think the percentages are a little low. There are so many toggles on some players...
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to kill Regens now 
Coupled with the increased difficulty of taking down players I hope they nerf Break-Frees, or maybe nerf using-powers-while-jumping. (which is fun and all but a little silly.)
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Total Focus does not have a DropToggles attribute. It does have a Disorient, and that can drop toggles.
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I guess its about time to slot some dmg/mez...and acc/mez HO's into TF....