I don't like the new numbers. Even with the increased ability to generation Domination faster, the Dominator also had toggle drops. Their offensive output is god awful. The Dominator's Total Focus barely reachs the respectable damage than a Blaster's Bonesmasher.
I could understand dropping Blaster's toggle drops to at most around the 50% mark and applicable on one attack, but Defenders and Dominators are now pretty worthless in those regards. Thorns doesn't get its 64% toggle drop until level 35 with Ripper, and that power's animation is a bit on the long (not to mention excessibly flamboyant) side.
Sorry, no dice here. Try again.
so lemme get this straight. I have a Fire/Ice Corruptor. None of my attacks or debuffs drop toggles?
No, your corruptor has no toggle drops.
Let's make something clear regarding toggle drops...Stuns, Holds, Sleeps will drop ALL toggles, provided that the target has no status resistance. The reason why people believed that Total Focus (from a Dominator) drops all toggles is because it has two things going for it...a 100% chance to drop at least 1 toggle and a disorient. Let's say I hit a Tanker with a Total Focus. If that toggle I drop happens to be Unyielding...The Total Focus will also Stun the Tanker and drop all of his toggles because he has no status protection.
If an Ice blaster were to toss a Freeze Ray at a Regen scrapper, and follow up with an Energy Punch which drops the Regen's integration, all toggles would drop because the Hold is still stacked there.
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Yes, such a pity that Tankers are immune to Clear Mind, Clarity, O2 Boost, and Break Frees. Such a pity that, despite running upwards of seven toggles, Blasters can manipulate probability and chaos to always drop Fire Shield first.
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Sorry. Too much overall emphasis is being put on toggle dropping in the first place. It's a blasters burst damage that makes them dangerous. I have an /nrg blaster, sure, but I also have an /ice blaster, a /dev blaster, a /fire blaster, and a /elec blaster. Counting on one thing that is subject to a % role is foolish. I love BS.. for it's damage. I could care less whether it drops a toggle or not. I blaster 'can' drop a tank, brute, or scrapper without toggle drops. Happens all the time.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
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I don't like the new numbers. Even with the increased ability to generation Domination faster, the Dominator also had toggle drops. Their offensive output is god awful. The Dominator's Total Focus barely reachs the respectable damage than a Blaster's Bonesmasher.
I could understand dropping Blaster's toggle drops to at most around the 50% mark and applicable on one attack, but Defenders and Dominators are now pretty worthless in those regards. Thorns doesn't get its 64% toggle drop until level 35 with Ripper, and that power's animation is a bit on the long (not to mention excessibly flamboyant) side.
Sorry, no dice here. Try again.
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Ya. No kidding. I can be one-shotted in the time it takes Ripper to complete animation at which point I say, who cares if I dropped their toggle? I'm dead.
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Reducing the toggle-dropping doesn't really make things all that much worse for them, and might put /energy into the same ballpark.
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So... many... bad... assumptions.
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I stopped reading right here.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
lol
<<Personnally, I really like these numbers. Toggle dropping has no counter and is too far from the PvE gameplay. Also, most squishie can do well without them (like Blasters and Controllers on the Hero side). >>
It has no counter!??! To far from PvE gameplay?!!?
I think we need to rexamine the larger picture. Every class with a stun or a hold has a 100% toggle dropping skill, which is a counter to toggle dropping. So long as your opponent doesn't have defense against that ability.
So while every single AT with defense for these things is saying "these changes are long overdue!" the ATs who have no defense (blasters) are whinning. Why? Because toggle dropping was my ONLY COUNTER to ANY AT that has a stun\hold (mentioning acrobatics will show have far removed you are from the blaster experience).
But i guess the devs would rather me walk into a fight with 20 BFs than have a chance to rely on my powers to win. I mean its not like i have 2 power sets devoted to offense...oh wait...
Maybe i should save this rant, because blasters are getting a review, and things will probably improve. Right Statesman?
Nerf Blaster Controllers!!!!
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Welcome to MMO PVP. Whoever screams "WE SUCK" the loudest gets to be next months kings of pvp. It's basically one giant slow-motion ping pong tourney.
-Tsoo
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Heh yup.
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I wonder how come Dominators aren't Kings of PvP then 
I KNOW we (well, I) whine more than that.
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Issuse 8 FoTM prediction:
Mind/Energy Dom
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QFT
i predicted this months ago.
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It'll be /Psi, not /Energy. /Energy has the fewest ranged attacks that are worth slotting - I myself only planned to slot ONE up because the others either root you for 4 hours or don't do enough damage, and in the case of Power Bolt, Both! The secondary effect is KB, which everyone has protection against (unless you detoggle it...not so anymore) And you have to hit for the extra Domination points to work.
/Psi is least defended against, has a level 1 attack that can be spammed as fast as Neutrino Bolt, and their attacks slow recharge rate. I bet when they buff Mental Blast to actually-worth-taking levels it'll become even better. If anything, Psi assault has the most right to complain about their secondary. Just look at it, lol. Even I will be pushing for Psi to get boosts along with the rest of our secondaries, maybe even to the point of /Psi getting Telekinetic Blast.
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No, your corruptor has no toggle drops.
Let's make something clear regarding toggle drops...Stuns, Holds, Sleeps will drop ALL toggles, provided that the target has no status resistance. The reason why people believed that Total Focus (from a Dominator) drops all toggles is because it has two things going for it...a 100% chance to drop at least 1 toggle and a disorient. Let's say I hit a Tanker with a Total Focus. If that toggle I drop happens to be Unyielding...The Total Focus will also Stun the Tanker and drop all of his toggles because he has no status protection.
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And then the stun lasts 5 seconds and supression kicks in, whereupon I am murdered because I cannot hold the guy again, Domination or not.
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<<Personnally, I really like these numbers. Toggle dropping has no counter and is too far from the PvE gameplay. Also, most squishie can do well without them (like Blasters and Controllers on the Hero side). >>
It has no counter!??! To far from PvE gameplay?!!?
I think we need to rexamine the larger picture. Every class with a stun or a hold has a 100% toggle dropping skill, which is a counter to toggle dropping. So long as your opponent doesn't have defense against that ability.
So while every single AT with defense for these things is saying "these changes are long overdue!" the ATs who have no defense (blasters) are whinning. Why? Because toggle dropping was my ONLY COUNTER to ANY AT that has a stun\hold (mentioning acrobatics will show have far removed you are from the blaster experience).
But i guess the devs would rather me walk into a fight with 20 BFs than have a chance to rely on my powers to win. I mean its not like i have 2 power sets devoted to offense...oh wait...
Maybe i should save this rant, because blasters are getting a review, and things will probably improve. Right Statesman?
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okay you want to you use your powersets to do something? you are worried you have to take 20 break frees?
look at it this way, im a fire/axe tank against massive toggle drops all i can do is constantly turn on my toggles to only have them knocked off again repeatedly. if i dont reapply my toggles. chances are a secondary effect of your blasts or melee dmg will stun me.
even if you dont have stuns how long can i possibly last against blaster attacks without my shields up?
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No, your corruptor has no toggle drops.
Let's make something clear regarding toggle drops...Stuns, Holds, Sleeps will drop ALL toggles, provided that the target has no status resistance. The reason why people believed that Total Focus (from a Dominator) drops all toggles is because it has two things going for it...a 100% chance to drop at least 1 toggle and a disorient. Let's say I hit a Tanker with a Total Focus. If that toggle I drop happens to be Unyielding...The Total Focus will also Stun the Tanker and drop all of his toggles because he has no status protection.
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And then the stun lasts 5 seconds and supression kicks in, whereupon I am murdered because I cannot hold the guy again, Domination or not.
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i have been held for much longer than 5 seconds at a time in pvp after my shield is either overloaded or toggle dropped.
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even if you dont have stuns how long can i possibly last against blaster attacks without my shields up?
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Long enough to kill them, especially in a team environment. PvP /= 1v1.
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No, your corruptor has no toggle drops.
Let's make something clear regarding toggle drops...Stuns, Holds, Sleeps will drop ALL toggles, provided that the target has no status resistance. The reason why people believed that Total Focus (from a Dominator) drops all toggles is because it has two things going for it...a 100% chance to drop at least 1 toggle and a disorient. Let's say I hit a Tanker with a Total Focus. If that toggle I drop happens to be Unyielding...The Total Focus will also Stun the Tanker and drop all of his toggles because he has no status protection.
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And then the stun lasts 5 seconds and supression kicks in, whereupon I am murdered because I cannot hold the guy again, Domination or not.
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i have been held for much longer than 5 seconds at a time in pvp after my shield is either overloaded or toggle dropped.
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If I used nothing but Total Focus and it dropped your toggle, you would be stunned for 5-8 seconds and then get suppression.
If I had thrown a Hold on you, you'd be held for 15 seconds, or 30 seconds if I had used Power Boost.
Total Focus is still going to suck for dropping toggles, though. Bone Smasher was my main dropper before, and now look at it.
Kali, very mature. Really. I guess I shouldn't have expected more.
Vidszhite, I'd suggest against using TF to drop toggles. A three plus second animation in melee range against melee players isn't going to do wonders. You'll be Stunned before you're even half-way through the slam dunk.
I have a couple questions from a ForceField Defender POV:
ForceBubble: I thought, in PvP, ForceBubble was supposed to have a chance to drop toggles? Was this never the case, or has this been changed?
Just generally: I'd like to ask the devs to reconsider ForceFields toggle-drops. If you look at the ForceField set as a whole, a good many of our powers are based on kb/detoggle for PvP. Knockback ain't really that usefull - effectively it is a 'slow' type power - between knockbacks, players have a chance to use 1-2 powers before you can kb them again. A lot of players have kb protection anyhow, so knockback, in and of itself, is pretty useless in my experience.
Now, most of our powers have almost no chance to detoggle an enemy.
That leaves forcefielders, in PvP, apparently with buffs and Detention Field. Well, Detention Field is what it is - on the one hand, you take an enemy out of the fight for a brief period. On the other hand, they are free to heal up, all their powers recharge, etc, so they emerge from it ready to kick [censored]. Arguably it helps the enemy more than it hurts them, but it also allows you to divide-and-conquer enemy teams, so I suppose it's good for what it's good for.
But, as to our buffs - well, absent any other factors, they are mostly pretty useful, between increased Defense, and some minor amount of AE status protection (I won't denegrate that - the status protection from Dispersion is certainly useful). But, there are a *lot* of ToHit buff powers (aim, buildup, tactics, etc) and Defense Debuff powers, so these really aren't good enough, all by themselves, to justify having the rest of our powers nearly useless in PvP.
As for attacks - well, really, I try, but can't get any damage hardly, so I don't primarily see my role in PvP (or PvE for that matter) as doing damage (I try to help as I can).
So, since I can't effectively attack, and my Defense buffs are frequently negated, I feel that ForceField needs something additional - for awhile now, the detoggle has been part of that, and I was satisfied with that role. Now, I'm not gonna hardly ever be able to detoggle any sufficiently useful number of toggles.
Please consider this, and consider bumping up the numbers for the ForceField set. I really believe ForceField should be better at detoggling than almost any other AT/powerset, because we don't bring a lot to our teams in PvP to begin with.
I do realize that detoggling was way too pervasive in I6. But I'm asking you to consider ForceField, specifically, in light of what the set brings to PvP, and consider adjusting the numbers up a bit higher (maybe not to the I6 levels, but to a more useful level, so that FF powers fairly frequently knocks off toggles).
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ForceBubble: I thought, in PvP, ForceBubble was supposed to have a chance to drop toggles? Was this never the case, or has this been changed?
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Force Bubble has never detoggled. Only Repulsion Bomb, Repulsion Field, and Force Bolt have had that mechanism.
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<<Personnally, I really like these numbers. Toggle dropping has no counter and is too far from the PvE gameplay. Also, most squishie can do well without them (like Blasters and Controllers on the Hero side). >>
It has no counter!??! To far from PvE gameplay?!!?
I think we need to rexamine the larger picture. Every class with a stun or a hold has a 100% toggle dropping skill, which is a counter to toggle dropping. So long as your opponent doesn't have defense against that ability.
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Well, What about Break Frees? What about clear Mind, increase Density, O2 boost and the like? Those are all mez counter.
Well, The holds are working in a similar way in PvE. Toggle dropping (other than by using mez) is almost absent from PvE.
Based on Castle numbers, Dominators are still the ones with the highest chance to drop a toggle. Also, if Controllers can take care of their oppenent by using mainly mez effects, shouldn't dominators be able to do the same, especially now that Domination is there way more often than it use to?
Blaster have damages, lots of them, partly unresistable. I fail to see why would they even need toggle dropping capabilities at all.
Pinnacle:
Lynx Nordique: lvl50 Claws/Regen Scrapper, Physique 101: lvl50 Kin/Nrg Defender
Freedom:
Feu Radieux: lvl50 Fire/Rad Controller, Rocheuse: lvl50 Earth/Rad controller, Madame Kyoto: lvl50 Katana/Regen scrapper, Hivernale: lvl50 Ice/Kin Controller, Leve du Jour: lvl50 Earth/Kin controller
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Kali, very mature. Really. I guess I shouldn't have expected more.
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It's convenient for you that your thread in Archetypes and Powers was deleted yesterday.
I didn't flame you. I didn't attack you. I'm tired of going over exactly the same arguments over and over again. I'm tired of having my integrity attacked because I wanted toggle drops to be reduced.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
I'd rather they gave force fields some other kind of buff that wouldn't be dependent on toggle dropping. Toggle dropping is kinda lame as a gameplay element, and doesn't make the game feel much like a superhero game.
But force fields definitely need a buff. Maybe repulsion bomb, and to a lesser extent repulsion field and force bolt, could have a hold effect, like some kind of extended knockdown or a force field around the feet that immobilizes.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
Love the numbers was hoping they could be lowered or removed. I just don't like toggle dropping. I think it was unfair that it was so easy to remove the defenses of my scrapper or tank and yet things like unresistable damage and unresistable debuffs were in the game. Just seemed to much.
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Also, if Controller can take care of their oppenent by using mainly mez effects, shouldn't dominators be able to do the same, especially now that Domination is there way more often than it use to?
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Dominator mezzes are shorter in duration, and thus harder to stack. They may also not benefit from the critical mez feature of some powers (have not confirmed).
Given their lack of survivability, they do need to present some risk outside of Domination or they'll just be used for free rep.
Force Bubble has Repel, and according to the description a defense boost, no toggle drops.
The best way to fix FF is to add disorients and turn back the nerf on Force Bomb you know 10 sec recharge AE 100% chance of disorienting
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Force Bubble has Repel, and according to the description a defense boost, no toggle drops.
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Force Bubble does NOT have a defense boost. Or a tohit debuff. Or an accuracy debuff.
It hasn't since release.
I swear, whoever decided to put out that manual needs to be forced to proofread.
Personnally, I really like these numbers. Toggle dropping has no counter and is too far from the PvE gameplay. Also, most squishie can do well without them (like Blasters and Controllers on the Hero side).
Pinnacle:
Lynx Nordique: lvl50 Claws/Regen Scrapper, Physique 101: lvl50 Kin/Nrg Defender
Freedom:
Feu Radieux: lvl50 Fire/Rad Controller, Rocheuse: lvl50 Earth/Rad controller, Madame Kyoto: lvl50 Katana/Regen scrapper, Hivernale: lvl50 Ice/Kin Controller, Leve du Jour: lvl50 Earth/Kin controller