LiquidAir

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So then is it 100 or 200?

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I farmed a CoV mission from Mashall Brass (iirc) and Hero Stats counted exactly 200 before I got the badge.

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Ah, then I stand corrected

If nothing actually uses the ranged (damage) modifiers in those AT's then it's a bit of a mystery why they bother having them different at all.

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All entities in the game have a range and a melee damage scale property, including NPCs. Mostly, the range and melee damage scale attributes are irrelevant for PCs because they have access to only one class (the exeptions are for melee power pool attacks on ranged PC and Dominators). However, the range/melee damage scale attributes are very important on NPCs. For typical NPCs the melee damage scale is 66% higher than the ranged damage scale. This allows the developers to give NPCs both ranged and melee attacks while maintaining the "range as defense" game balance.

I am guessing that there is a second reason that is steeped in the early development history of the game. In very early beta players were allowed choose powers more smorgasboard style rather than picking from fixed sets. If I had to hazard a guess, when you created a character you picked "specialties" which controlled your modifiers for many aspects, including range vs. melee damage. So in the early development cycle, a Tank, a Scrapper and a Blaster could both take Knockout Blow, Temporary Invunlerability, and Fire Ball, however Knockout Blow would do the most damage for a Scrapper, Fire Ball would do the most damage for a Blaster, and TI would provide the most defense for a Tank. This system was scrapped apparently because it was too easily min/maxed and all min/maxers ended up with the same build. The ranged and melee damage scales survived for the same reason people still have an appendix: there is no significant gain in removing it and it might be useful again some day.

I ran the "Stop Circle Rituals" mission which summons Baphomet and did not get the Demon Slayer badge. Details: Level 40 Brute, solo, set on villainous so Baphomet was a level 40 elite boss.

I have been sitting on this mission on both my 40 corruptor and my 40 brute waiting for the bug to be fixed. While I have heard you can get the badge by petitioning the GMs, I would rather not pester them if I can get the badge the right way when I7 goes live.

Edit: One thing I did notice that seemed different about this mission: this time I had to clear all 10 rituals to start the sequence of ambushes. I have run this mission several times on test after patches to see if the badge was fixed and before this run I always triggered Baphomet before I completed the mission.

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It cost me about 180K in debt too, with PvP [censored] ASing me on the launchpad despite my explaining what my team was doing (I'll remember you, Vindictive FX).


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I take it you are on Champion. Some nights Warburg is empty and I have no trouble going in a grabbing a couple rockets. Last night, however, was not one of them.

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Not to mention I believe a red name actually confirmed the Recharge formula, but I can't recall the thread now. The main reason I actually remember is because someone then asked if we could get the formula they use to calculate Damage Scale and they said no, it was too complicated and used a lot of subjective values.

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Geko mentioned the recharge/damage scale relationship in the "Ask Geko" thread some time back.

All powers in the game exist in an Excel spreadsheet which is then translated into the game files somehow (presumably Cryptic wrote a custom tool for this). Things like the recharge/damage scale equation are computed in Excel and not on the servers or the client, so the game designer has an opportunity to modify it if he so chooses. For instance, all Fire powers with a DoT do over scale damage and powers with a status effect often incur a damage penalty (Knockout Blow and Midnight Grasp).

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Wow, ye of little faith. Isolator is marked as "Hero Only". Villains can kill the contaminated for 100 years, and never get the badge. Only Heroes can get the badge.

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um... how is your average villain going to know that?
I can forsee a lot of villains trying, stealing kills from heros in the process, and then raising a fuss when they wonder why their efforts aren't being rewarded.

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This wouldn't be any more offensive than what already goes on in PvP zones. By comparison, it's tame.

Just move the one Contaminated over to Peregrine or somewhere so Villains will never see him.

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Move him to the Hive, cowering right next to Hami.

Note: I have a hero with 250+ badges and I have absolutely no plans to get this badge.

Here is how I think you interpret those numbers.
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Defender Force Field: Force Bolt: 8% and 2% for 1 Toggle; 0.16% chance of 2 Toggles


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There are two separate dice rolls for dropping toggles. The first has an 8% chance of dropping a toggle. The second has a 2% chance of dropping a toggle. The chance that they both hit is

0.08 * 0.02 = 0.0016 or 0.16%

So your chance of dropping two toggles is 0.16%.

The chance that only one of them hits is

0.08 + 0.02 - 0.0016 = 0.0984 or 9.84%

So the net result is you have a 9.84% chance of dropping one toggle and a 0.16% chance of dropping two toggles.

Here is another example just so you see the pattern:
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Defender Force Field: Repulsion Bomb: 27% and 5% for 1 Toggle; 1.35% chance of 2 Toggles


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Chance of dropping 1 Toggle = 27% + 5% - 1.35% = 30.65%
Chance of dropping 2 Toggles = 1.35%.

On a side note, I think some of the numbers in this table are wron. Consider:

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Defender Storm Summoning: Thunder Clap: 12% and 2% for 1 Toggle; 0.4% chance of 2 Toggles


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0.12 * 0.02 = 0.0024 or 0.24% but the number in the table is 0.4%. I am guessing there is a typeo somewhere in the Thunder Clap numbers.

I like the chains because they can be used in several different ways depending on how you color them. One of my toons is wearing gold chains and it is quite a different effect than you get if you color them gunmetal grey.

Here is my understanding of the Patron Power pools: You patron is introducing you to the source of their power.

I don't know the origin story for any of the Patrons, but let's say for a sec that that there was a Lord Reculse Patron Power Pool. How would you get those powers? Lord Recluse would lead you (or send you) to the the Well of the Furies and you would get a chance to drink from it.

From a story point of view, would your character take that drink or not? Would your character complain to Lord Reculse "I am not going to drink from that well because it doesn't give Stone Powers" or would your character drink from the Well and cope with the incongruity?

In many ways I find the Patron powers easier for character concept. My Brute will get Ghost Widow's patron powers with this story, "I started hanging around with GW becase, well, I like hot dead chicks. What can I say? I am weak that way. Anyhow, I did a few favors for her and look what she gave me! Now I can throw inky skulls at people and goose them with black tentacles."

The point here is that consistancy with my origin is not required. I have a story for how I got my primary and secondary powers but I don't have to find some way to shoehorn a third power set into that story because this is something that happened to my character after he arrived in the Rogue Isles. Honestly, this is considerably better than in CoH where if none of the Epics fit my character story, I am SoL.

Look at it this way: you do a series of missions for Stephanie Peebles in Striga and she gives you a wedding band to use for a couple of hours. Do you say "I am a tech based energy blaster and I don't use magical resist all powers?" or do you say "Stepanie gave me this cool ring!" The term "Patron Powers" seems, well Patronizing, but I think the reality is less so. Stephanie is loaning you the ring for 2 hours and then you have to give it pack. Black Scorpion is giving you a staff and you get to keep it. In CoH you get to keep the Sands of Mu for what, a couple of days before your contact wants it back? In CoV Scirocco gives you full access to the power of Mu forever. Honestly, which side would you call more "patronizing?"

Post deleted by LiquidAir

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Seriously? I soloed the even-level EB version with my MA/SR not too long ago. Granted, the fight only lasted about 90 seconds, but he *never* hit me. I don't recall exactly, but if there was anything on top of my toggles, it was just some inspirations -- not Elude.

I must've gotten really, really lucky or something ::shrugs::

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There is a difference. Melee vs. Range. Chimera uses his sword in melee and his arrows at range. The sword seems to have normal accuracy, but the arrows appear to be basically auto-hit. Since you are a melee AT, it makes sense that he would not have been able to hit you much.

For my defender, it is a little bit different. I usually fight at range because I don't have the hitpoints or resistance to survive in melee against an elite boss.

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This is funny. I soloed him succesfully only after I got him to switch to his bow. He was royally owning my BS/Inv in melee, and I ran and convinced him to start shooting me with his bow, even when I returned to melee range. He does way less damage with the bow, and I was able to outpace him.

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That was the same experience I had with my Inv Tank against the AV version of him. We had 3 scrappers and a Tank on the team (not, maybe, the ideal AV team, but it is what we had). Initially I was in melee range and his sword was taking big hunks out of my hide (and this was pre I5 too...), so I stepped back, the scrappers formed a wall and I taunted him from behind it. Worked like a charm.

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I've tried to read though as much of this thread as i could, but i'm at work so i can't read that often. I'll apoligize if this has been asked and answered.

My question is: Why can't Healing Flames provide the same heal % as Dull Pain? Is the +toxic resistance that much of a difference in the function of the power that it has to be such a weaker heal? Would it be unbalanced to keep it the way it is and add +regeneration boost for it's duration? To clarify the +regeneration; I mean an enhanceable % that would cause Healing Flames to work like Health from the Fitness Power Pool while it was active.

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The recharge time on Dull Pain is *much* longer than Healing Flames. If I remember right, the base recharge on Dull Pain 6 times longer than the base recharge of Healing Flames.

One way to see the value of a heal is in terms of the damage done by a minion. Using iakona's numbers, a minion using a damage scale 1.0 melee attack (BI 2.7778) does 6.43% of a Tank's health in damage. This is true for a level 20 minion against a level 20 Tank and it is true for a level 50 minion against a level 50 Tank.

The fairest think I can come up with is to reference ranged ATs against ranged damage and melee ATs against melee damage. So then

Ranged ATs, 1.0 damage scale ranged attack
Blaster: 6.0%
Defender: 7.11%
Controller: 7.11%

Melee ATs, 1.0 damage scale melee attack
Scrapper: 9.00%
Tank: 6.34%

What is interesting about these tables is that it suggests that as long as a Blaster can keep out of melee range (where attacks do 66% more damage), he is the most robust of all the ATs. Scrappers, OTOH, are the most fragile. Ignoring resistances, I would say a 10% heal is worth the most to a Blaster and the least to a Scrapper.

This, of course, is a PvE argument and uses the fact that mobs are scaled to do 66% more damage in melee than at range. In a PvP environment, the difference between melee and ranged damage is considerably smaller.

I tested the damage of Midnight Grasp in game. The actual Brawl Index is 3.5556 + 10 * 0.3000 = 6.5556. All the BI guides I have seen quote 0.27778 for the DoT tick, but I did enough testing to decide that it is actually 0.3000.

One note: ATI has finally gotten around to fixing the problems with the water effects. If you like the new water effects but have had them turned off because of problems, try downloading the latest driver.

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Since AS is practically a melee snipe, shouldn't it follow the rules for snipe attacks and have it's range and line of sight checked twice? Once when the attack is initiated and once when it is resolved. Not like now, when people can start up AS and kill someone 100 feet away because the target moved.

If not, can someone tell me how to interrupt a stalker running Elude or similar powers? It's impossible to hit them even if I can see them perfectly fine.

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This has been brought up a couple times internally. The problem with making AS check Range twice is that it would be virtually impossible to land in PvP. It would also make it unique in that all other melee powers only check range once, so even if your target is running, you will still land the attack, no matter how far away they get.

It DOES check line of sight twice, so if you constantly take routes which break LOS frequently, you can stop Assassin attacks.

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Something that might be interesting to try would be to have a relaxed range check at the end. For instance, 5 feet at the start and 15 feet at the end. Essentially the design would be that if you are moving at travel power speeds you can't be ASed, but if you are moving at sprint speeds you can be. I don't know how that would work out in practice but it might be worth some internal testing.

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Ok, you probably can't fit in hasten to speed up overload, but WOULD YOU NEED IT?

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You need Overload. A level 50 Hero does almost 1700 points of damage with Knockout Blow (think Statesman). If you have Dampening Field with the base slot in it, that still leaves about 1550. A level 50 Brute has only 1500 health. Without Overload to buff your health, you will get one-shotted (ok, left with 1% HP) if KO Blow gets through.

Wow. 7.5% seems waaaay too good to me. Here is a theory: Energy Cloak actually does suppress when you attack (like most stealth powers do) to 1/2 of its defense. If is is 7.5% unsuppressed, it would be 3.75% suppressed which is the value you would expect to put EA on a par with SR. One thing that might be worth trying is put Brawl on auto-fire when you run the test. This would test to see if there really is suppression or not. I am also tempted to go into the arena to test the -visibility property of Energy Cloak.

Thanks Stupid_Fanboy for running all these tests.

Lets take a look at Archmage Tarixus. To get his missions you have to get the Lorekeeper badge which in turn requires finding 4 plaques in obscure locations in 4 different zones. As is, there is no way anyone is going unlock him without help from the Forums.

Generally CoX tries very hard to use the contact system to introduce all content. Look at the missions that send us to the Hollows, Bloody Bay, Striga, etc. We get this big errand to run just to make sure we don't miss those zones. As I whole, I think this sets the tone that the content will be spoon fed to us rather than found.

I think that exploring to find new content is a great thing and would enhance the CoX game experience dramatically, but it really needs to be part of the mindset of the game rather than an afterthought. Some suggestions:

As far as I can tell, the colored rings around the contacts, stores, etc are never explained in game. Add that to the Tutorial.

Add a contact near Fort Darwin who is unlocked by an exploration badge. Don't introduce him, but put him where every new player will see him. When you first talk to him, he explains the concept of exploration badges and tells you roughly where to find the one that unlocks him.

All unlocked contacts should give missions for the full range of the zone they are in. The saddest thing is to successfully unlock a contact and then discover you have outleveled the missions. You should only outlevel an unlocked contact when you have outleveled the zone.

Every zone should have an unlocked contact or two.

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For the defense case, I have to be hit 10 (or more) out of 20 times. The chance of that happening is around 1 in 100, which is an astounding 10,000 times more likely than the resistance case.

So, if you the question you are asking is "what is the average damage taken?" 25% defense is the same as 50% resistance. However, if the question you ask is "how likely am I to die?" then 25% defense is no where near as good as 50% resistance.

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You're going to drag us all through binomial theory aren't you.

truly thou art evil!

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Average lifetime analysis is a Markov Chain analysis, not so much binomial theory. Last time I said that, someone actually did it. I'm pseudo-lazy: I didn't want to calculate it, but I was willing to write a simulator to model it.

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I have been using 1D random-walk theory, but in the world where there are only two possible outcomes (hit or miss), Markov chains, binomials, and random-walks all work out to be the same thing so it ends up not mattering which notation you use.

The trick I am using to vastly simplify the caculations is to approximate the damage distribution as a gaussian. That way all I need to keep track of is an average damage and a standard deviation. The method may be a tad mathematical for these forums, but if you can handle a square root, you can use the results.

On a side note:
Yes the range of possibilities for a defense build is much wider than for a resistance build. While you will sometimes die in a situation where a resistance build never would, if you get lucky you can do things that are impossible for a resistance build. One particular event triggered my investigation down this road:

I went into a mission to fight Luimary. This is the Elite Boss version not the Hero version (after the patch). The first time I faced her, she downed me in seconds. I came back from the hospital to try again and I took her down with barely a scratch. The difference in the two attempts was so striking that is really piqued my interest in the topic.

Of couse, the second reason I have been doing this investigation is to answer the question many people have asked: Are the EA passives worth taking?


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And the answer is?

Inquiring minds want to know.

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Energy protection is not. Dampening field is a good power IMO, it's not crazy good like energy drain or a must-have like the defense toggles but it's a solid choice. Some people disagree and think it's crap, but I'm reasonably happy with it.

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I put together a Markov model to go along with my Gaussian model. They both come to the same conclusion: Under most circumstances, picking up either Combat Jumping or Manuvers is better than Dampening Field even when all the damage you are taking is Smashing or Lethal.

The exceptions are:

1. You have taken and slotted Tough from the Fighting Pool.

2. You are already hitting the accuracy cap (either with help from a Corruptor or via DM/Touch of Fear).

3. You are in a situation where your Toggles are likely to drop (like PvP or Sappers).

For S/L damage the difference is really very minor. In practice, you will only notice the advantage of Combat Jumping over Dampening Field when then damage is not S/L.

Edit: Forgot to mention that all my models use I7 accuracy/defense scaling. Using the to-hit calculations that currently on the live servers, Dampening Field is considerably better than Combat Jumping. That will change when I7 goes live.

My guess is that Kinetic + Enery Cloak + Combat Jumping (all 3-slotted for defense) will get you into the 30% range for defense against S/L

My guess is that Energy Cloak is set to bring us to parity with SR scrappers for S/L. That way the overall tradeoff is we get the same S/L defense, better Energy, Cold and Fire defense and worse Negative Energy, Toxic and Psi.

The standard deviation on 5000 tests is 1.4%; 0.375% is well inside that.

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it doesn't make sense to me why'd they do that without also updating the powers descriptions. or why they would suddenly make fire and cold def as strong as energy def, leaving negative out in the cold.

i don't like it at all. I'm gonna test Kin tonight to see if any energy defense is in there.

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Remember that Fire Tanks are weak to Cold, Ice Tanks are weak to Fire, and DA is weak to Energy. From a story point of view, it makes more sense that energy aura should be weak to negative energy than that it should be weak to toxics.

On a side note: remeber that when two different defense numbers apply, the better one is used. For attacks like Shadow Punch and Smite we get the 12.75% S/L defense rather than the 10.5% negative energy one. Pure negative energy attacks are acually quite rare.

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now i'm more confused.

gonna PM Jonyu

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What it looks like is that when the shields were reworked, the energy defense from Kinetic was rolled into Power Shield and added to the fire and cold defense there, so Kinetic no longer provides any Energy defense. That all makes perfect sense to me. If that is the case, then really the only outstanding question is how much defense is provided by Energy Cloak.