Official Thread for Mastermind Feature: Bodyguards
By
Agent_Draven,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 13:04 in Developers' Corner
This sounds cool and all, but am I the only one who thinks it is a bit useless?
From my personal experience, if I am taking a large amount of damage, it is because my pets are dying. Having them take more damage is no benefit to me at all. Even when I am taking damage, it is usually not too much for me to absorb, and I get poison trap down before the next wave.
I guess in PVP it may have more of a benefit, or if I really wanted to tank with my MM...but is there really that much benefit for standard PVE play?
True, true. And erm..I'm sure you're not a tosser...whatever that is. 
You..uh, he does have a point. If someone bought CoV new and never played CoH they might need a little help with the MM set because it is a little more involved than some other sets.
Sometimes we forget that other people don't know what we know about the game.
y'know if they're gonna introduce Bodyguard as a whole new feature they really outta add a button for it in the advanced controls.
everyone shouldn't have to read the mm forums daily in order to use their character properly.
mind you i think there outta be a lot more than the few buttons in there anyhow.
[ QUOTE ]
This sounds cool and all, but am I the only one who thinks it is a bit useless?
From my personal experience, if I am taking a large amount of damage, it is because my pets are dying. Having them take more damage is no benefit to me at all. Even when I am taking damage, it is usually not too much for me to absorb, and I get poison trap down before the next wave.
I guess in PVP it may have more of a benefit, or if I really wanted to tank with my MM...but is there really that much benefit for standard PVE play?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. Positron referred to it as a PvP buff, anyway.
Darkspeed, you had a valid request. I think something in the simple commands listed in the power menu should allow the use of body guard. I might be mistaken though, but I think the default 'follow' icon there might sent to defense also, if not, they can just convert that premade macro.
I personally haven't tested this system, but from the lack of 'It isn't working' posts (except for 'its working while attack command is issued'), I imagine it is working as intended. Maybe they made it so when you are on defensive mode, bots will no longer seek targets you told them to attack, but just attack if in range.
I look forward and pre-welcome this change/feature.
Freeedom
H: Victra Defile (Rad/Dark) & Hot Hits (Fire/SD)
V: Spike Cream (NW) & Crescent Wind (Nin/Storm)
Sub Hero Inc ARC: 1541
--If you don't like what I have to say, it was probably a typo you are refering to.
[ QUOTE ]
That won't work. Slotting endredux on a pet is like giving them Stamina -- it reduces the cost of their attacks. It doesn't reduce the cost of summoning them.
...
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know about that. My Ninja/DM MM put 1 endurance reduction in all three of my henchmen summons and it has seemed to help me (I now have more endurance left it seems). I know it definitely helps with my pets' endurance usage (poor Oni definitely needs an end. reduction 
).
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
Great feature, but using this is going to be tricky, I always travel with pets on passive and attack specific targets since I really really hate it when my pets run off to attack something else. Suppose bodyguard is a good thing to use when you're in the "oh crap..." situation or when you see a threat coming your way and click follow to activate bodyguard, definately not an ability to use at ALL times while travelling. My ninja/dark may be a big threat to mobs up +3's using bodyguard.
it seems to work most of the time
still it'd be nice if pets retaliated when an enemy tried to attack me and missed, instead of *just* when an enemy's attack hits...
Not really feeling like a mastermind anymore....
That sums up my experiance on the test server. As a mastermind, I have always had to aproach combat with at least a small sense of tact and smarts. I had to make a concious effort to avoid drawing too much damage onto myself. A mission, even soloing on an easy difficulty, required a certain level of caution.
Now, my mastermind on the test server just plays like my brute. I charge through missions, guns blazing, with almost no reguard for personal safety. I do not even have any pet macros on my hotbars, I dont need them. I just leave pets on defense/follow, and if they bother to join the fight, great. Even with only a single henchman on bodyguard, damage becomes fairly trivial. I can easily heal myself with an inspiration once in a while if I need it, and if my henchman dies I just quickly resummon him during combat. If I had twilight grasp to freaquently heal myself with, it would just get even easier.
Although the old mastermind playstyles are still available, they seem somewhat overshadowed by this new "supertank" style of mastermind.
I am happy that I7 is finally on test, but I feel a little "turned off" to the mastermind AT with bodyguard. It is now a completely different character then what I got hooked on... and its a lot stronger this way. I kinda wish bodyguard had a better implementation. One that supports the existing playstyles, rather then giving us such a radical new one.
Well, thats my feedback on the subject.
[ QUOTE ]
it seems to work most of the time
still it'd be nice if pets retaliated when an enemy tried to attack me and missed, instead of *just* when an enemy's attack hits...
[/ QUOTE ]
Even when the enemy HITS me with their attack, my pet will often stand there and ignore it until an enemy manages to hit my pet with an AE or something.
Question...how is leftover damage handled?
For example...and I am simplifying it quite a bit
you have 1 minion out. That minion has 100hp
As I understand it if you take 150damage, you get 1 share (50) and the minion take 2 (100), killing the minion. What happons if you take 200 damage? The minion can not absorb his 2 shares. Is the damage left on the MM or is it lost?
It is pretty odd all of the sudden I feel uber. Tank god like. I was standing on a platform after a battle admiring the scenery and noticed my pets were attacking something. Bodyguard mode had kicked in. Behind my back a door opened and a couple of lvl 42s came out. My pets did the damage and my dar servent healed them well. All lived and wiped out the 5 lvl 42's. Interesting that all of the sudden I feel more well... less tacticle. Body guard I like for the behind the back ambush that I can't see. My pets went nuts off the first spider sting. Starting to love it but ... god like?
[ QUOTE ]
Question...how is leftover damage handled?
For example...and I am simplifying it quite a bit
you have 1 minion out. That minion has 100hp
As I understand it if you take 150damage, you get 1 share (50) and the minion take 2 (100), killing the minion. What happons if you take 200 damage? The minion can not absorb his 2 shares. Is the damage left on the MM or is it lost?
[/ QUOTE ]
Masterminds take two shares. Minions take one.
Bah...sorry, got my math the wrong way. But still, what happons if your minion can not absorb his share?
he dies
After testing: Bodyguard is infinitely helpful in PvE.
But, as I predicted, it's easily bypassed by players in PvP.
TP foe easily removes the MM from Supremacy (and therefore Bodyguard) range into mines/stalkers/blappers, etc for an easy kill.
This will become a critical issue in PvP.
---------------------------------
Heartbroken
I lurked a lot but I'll miss you allAlpha Team sg, Pinnacle server
Black Citadel vg
that, my dear, is what phase shift is for
[ QUOTE ]
that, my dear, is what phase shift is for
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. The animation, then final activation of phase is way too slow to be used to counter TP foe attacks. It's trivial to queue attacks before phase can take effect.
I've died through phase even when I had plenty of warning that attacks were coming. A complete surprise would be impossible to react to in time.
Remember also, phase has a timer on it, so sitting in phase constantly isn't an option, either. Not to mention that it would make it impossible to command/buff your pets and your team.
---------------------------------
Heartbroken
I lurked a lot but I'll miss you allAlpha Team sg, Pinnacle server
Black Citadel vg
[ QUOTE ]
he dies
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, but I was looking for abit more info...like where does the rest of the damage go. Does the MM take the rest, does it distribute between the other henchmen...is it just lost forever.
played around a bit with it tonight. Did find some PVE uses for it...mostly for when I run into the center of a large group, taking the alpha, and drop poison grenade. I was also able to easly tell my bots to attack and then set them to defend follow. If there first shots hit they would continue the attack while giving me the protection.
Not a bad ability overall, and I can see some of the use for PVP.
as often as im drone-tped i know the animation that shows up on my MM when he is targeted, and since he lacks any shiny auras to distract from things like that, i have enough time to hit my "oh [censored]" button, and you dont just stand around while PS is on, you run back to your team/pets like a scared scared bunny, throw of PS, and let the TPing hero feel the full fury of your tank/magely power
[ QUOTE ]
that, my dear, is what phase shift is for
[/ QUOTE ] Im just hoping you've been playing for alot longer then your forum reg date, and or, perhaps you forgot to list your other many toons that would show that you possibly have usefull experience and helpful information other then snippy comments that just invite people to look at you funny.
That would be like me saying "oh thats is why flurry is teh uber, my dear" and not realizing i just put my foot into my mouth.
Alexis was alot nicer in her reply then I would of been, then again, the forums attitudes of late, have been putting me in moods lately. /sigh, really miss that first year after CoH beta when the forums were populated by helpfull, methodical, testing and serious, yet courteous postings.
No wonder only the rep's of the dev's post here anymore.
However, back to add to the topic, I agree with you Alexis, and on top of that. Since PFF was our only protection vs TP foe, it too has become "less than" optimal to use in a PvE or PvP setting due to the loss of pet control unless as a last ditch effort.
So easiest way around MM's BG function in PvP, just keep the pets away and you'll still have a easy kill.
[ QUOTE ]
After testing: Bodyguard is infinitely helpful in PvE.
But, as I predicted, it's easily bypassed by players in PvP.
TP foe easily removes the MM from Supremacy (and therefore Bodyguard) range into mines/stalkers/blappers, etc for an easy kill.
This will become a critical issue in PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but that happens to everybody. A BRUTE teleported away from his team stands a good chance of getting slaughtered by the teleporter's team if caught by surprise. Better to say that Bodyguard doesn't insulate a Mastermind any better than everyone else.
Echoing what everyone else is saying here: pet AI needs to be adjusted so that they attack when the MM is attacked, hit or miss, not just when the MM takes damage.
Additionally, the default 'Follow' macro needs to be switched to Follow + Defensive. The Follow + Aggressive was a stupid macro to begin with, and newbies who don't want to fumble with building new macros should have a one-touch Bodyguard button at their disposal.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
brutes bring their entire primary and secondary with them if they get tp'd
also with bodyguard many mm's will just sit with it on all the time and mishs will become snoozefests
I dont disagree with you Monkey_King. Your right, it shouldnt just favor one class.
[ QUOTE ]
brutes bring their entire primary and secondary with them if they get tp'd
[/ QUOTE ] However this is my thoughts exactly. Out of all my toons, only my MM and possibly one of my defenders would be meat by a single teleporter or a teleporter's team.
I would agree with you, if a brute, tank, what ever did get TP foe'd by a team of hero/villians he/she got a good chance that he'll get dropped if he dosent pick flight over fight.
What It does concern me, that it'll put MM's back into the 2 shot category by solo teleporters and gaurenteed kill by teleporting teams , even if the MM wants to flee as soon as the tp foe animation goes off.
So yes, it should go across the board, however it does give disadvantage to a MM. He comes across the teleport without his primary powerset.
Wanna TP FOE my scrapper, tank or sometimes even my storm defender. Sure ive walked out of quite a few of those unharmed, and sometimes even the victor.
This will be just one thing I dislike about BG. Its proving to be rarely to somewhat usefull in PvE already, as guessed. I was just hoping it would be least a benefit for PvP without a huge gaping hole in the protection it provided.
I guess in retrospect, I could even be happy if TP FOE against a MM in BG mode, had a random chance of TP'ing one of the defending pets INSTEAD of the MM. After all, perhaps he got in the way of the teleporters aim.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Suggestion:
Automatically add a Bodyguard Macro to MMs powerbar, similar to the ones already added.
[/ QUOTE ]
Change the Follow command from "follow Aggressive" to "follow Defensive".
I hated the "Aggressive" feature of Follow.
Or type in /macro BG petcom_all Follow Defensive
Unless you want the devs to do it because you're lazy. :P
[/ QUOTE ]
Or unless I want the option to be easily useable by players who don't understand the macro system? i.e. the reason the prebuilt macros are automatically there in the first place?
This is a thread about feedback todo with Bodyguard, no need to get snippy about a perfectly reasonable suggestion.
[/ QUOTE ]
No need to get snippy about a lighthearted response. I put the :P face at the end for a reason.
Geesh, what's with everyone snapping at my [censored] as of late? Have I really been turning into that much of a tosser?