Official Thread for Mastermind Feature: Bodyguards
mm's can't control their pets that well either
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mm's can't control their pets that well either
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Theres a difference between "not well" (which isn't really true IMO) and "not at all".
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
i'd like illusion as a primary, even if i had to lose my control
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i'd like illusion as a primary, even if i had to lose my control
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So, roll a controller?
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
dont see that choice in CoV
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Huh ? You don't see any problem with the one set that has multiple pets to fight for it being able to quickly duck in and out of indestructable mode ?
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You've obviously never played a */ff in PvP, PFF is hardly "indestructible mode" there. I really wish people wouldn't hold forth on a subject they have no experience with.
I7 Masterminds using PFF can't Control thier pets. They automaticly shift to Defensive when we enter PFF. Now unless I'm mistaken that equals Masterminds Can't control thier pets. Masterminds Pets not being aggressive means that a Controller has more effective pets while in PFF then the Mastermind.
So either give us back control of our Pets or give us back the recharge on PFF and slap our pets in Aggressive when we PFF.
I'll take either.
I agree, the changes to PFF with regard to MMs are rediculous and totally unnecessary. With all of the disadvantages of using PFF, why is it necessary to add a long reset time as well? If blasters, of all people, can fade in and out of PFF every 7.7 seconds (with 3 recharges) I see no reason why we should have a 2 minute base recharge.
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Now, the confusion comes in with the way that's worded. Follow. Do they leave bodyguard mode if I tell them to attack my target? Do they leave bodyguard mode if I send them to a location? (Still within Supremacy range, I mean)
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The way it's sopose to work is if you, the mastermind, give any order other then "Follow" and/change their stance to anything but defensive they are not in bodyguard mode. Goto, Stay, Attack my Target, Passive, and Aggressive all cancel bodyguard. Naturaly Dissmiss also cancels bodyguard. That's how it's sopose to work anyway.
If some people are getting the share damage from bodyguard while using "Attack my target" then there must be a bug somewhere in the code.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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The more this game evolves the more I find that the sets we thought were going to be UBER in PVP are the ones that got whacked hard with the nerf stick to prevent them from achieving dominance.
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OMG Just post any nonsense to get your post count up huh?
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Elec Blasters/defenders = Endurance drain nerfed to uselessness
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It wasn't an intentional nerf. It was an unfortunate side-affect which has since been fixed. In fact it's just as good if not a little better than before.
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Anything with PFF = Defenders in PVP yeah right ?
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I do quite well with my defender in PvP. Just because you can't imagine that happening doesn't make it so.
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ED prevents blasters from ruling PVP.
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As it does Stalkers (imagine AS 1/5 or 2/4 slotted?) (actually according to _Castle_ stalkers have the highest kill rate in PvP zones) and brutes etc etc. ED wasn't put in to nerf blasters in PvP.
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FF MM's are nothing but their pets, and pets don't amount to much in PVP
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Some pets get some really nice tricks and they can really make a difference. And if we're nothing without our pets why are you crying about our 'indestructible button'?
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Regen Scrappers = Okay Regens are still tough, but their not G0DLY anymore
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They have been getting nerfed for ages. As much if not more for PvE than PvP.
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Ice critters would make b4d455 pets.
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Lastly, the profanity filter is there for a reason, and it's not for you to try and beat it with sad leet speak crapperish.
So far, I have to say that the bodyguard is great for PvE, but does nothing for PvP. My SG on test, they did a for fun raid within our coalition. It wasn't pretty.
At the time, I was a lv 12 Fire Melee/Elec Armor Brute. One of the enemy's in the raid, was atleast lv 32 Thugs/Dark MM. (She had all of her upgrades and all of her pets, I just forgot to check her level lol).
Well, in the raid, everyone is bumped to lv 50. I fought this Thugs/Dark MM several times, at first it was a gang-up 2v1, but later on I was able to get 1v1 with her (Yah, these were small SG's), well, despite me being lv 12 and her being atleast 3 times my level practically, I was able to beat her everytime I 1v1'd. She even pulled Gang War out, wow, cool power, but, uh, I didn't even notice the extra damage they were doing, they only made my Fury bar max out (making me kill the MM even faster).
Bodyguard sounded great on paper when I first read it. But, the problem is, that MM's have the absolute lowest HP of all of the AT's. Without a slight HP buff, I just can't see Bodyguard being enough of a factor to help them in PvP.
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
I'm not so sure BG is a huge problem.. as if I don't liek it, I just won't use it. I never have pets in D/F anyway, and i don't have any trouble keeping things attacking my pets instead of me in PvE... even when they do, I heal for nearly all of my HP in one shot with twilight grasp (I'm ninja/dark). As for pvp... this seems uterrly useless...
My suggestion: Make bodyguard its own stance. Make it function the way it was intended just as a different stance. While in Bodyguard stance, make it so pets will not leave your side, but can attack at range maybe? ALthough my ninjas suck horribly at ranged... I think I'd use it if everytime something attacks me, my pets don't go pyscho. We all know how well ninjas survive if you dont spam goto attack my target...
*Ninja Defensive Thought Process*
1 - Oh crap! Master is under attack!
2 - We are Genin, cleary we should split up.
3 - Uh oh. I can't handle a minion on my own since im 3 levels under it!
4 - POW. Anyone get the plate number on that truck?
*How it should be*
1 - Oh crap. Master is under attack!
2 - I'm going to throw myself infront of bullets to protect him!
3 - I'd better not run at the thing attacking him, since he wanted me to defend!
Boom. Pets aren't stupid anymore, just selfless. Which if i want them to be bodyguards, is what they should be... not attack barriers that charge slowly at whatever attacks me, and then gets confused and runs in circles.
Of course... Think of the coding side of it. If you make it so pets can't leave supremacy range while bodyguard is active... then theyd be dragged along with you when you fly/SS/Sj... hm. maybe thats not such a bad thing?
oh well, theres my musings after reading all 15 pages. lol
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This I agree with. But this isn't a problem with bodyguard. This is a problem wiht pet AI. They need to make pets a bit smarter, or give them more modes or options in controling their behavior.
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QFT.
I did a little test run with follow and defensive mode. There are major AI Issues:
1- They simply do not react to most attacks. In my tests they would wait till I had been hit 2-4 times before finally deciding to react. This is insane for a bunch of ninja who cheerfully reply "Hai! Iwill protect you!" when I give the command. They should commit seppuku in shame.
2- When they DO react, they run away from me, at the attacker, and out of supremacy. This is the bitterest of ironies: I must micro manage the b4st4rd5 to get them to go into melee in most cases, but when on defensive/follow they can't charge into melee with the enemy fast enough! Somewhere a dev is cackling madly.
Look, I will be the first to say that this seems like a great power, but the AI is NOT up to it. It needs improvements for this to work. It may be an excellent abillity, but it is only as strong as the pre-existing code it relies upon... which is not very strong.
Infamy: SS/DA Brt, Brushfire Bill: Fire/Thorn Dom, Kill and Tell: Ninja/Trap MM, Dark Duelist: MA/DA Stk, Howling Rad: Rad/Sonic Cor, Silent Rebuke: Claw/EA Stk, Shadow Technician: Dark/Trap Cor, Forbidden Brute: DM/Fire Brt, Doctor Exile: Grav/Thorn Dom, Eternal Warrior: Mace/SD Brt, Electrogravitic: Grav/Elec Dom, Huntsman Gold: Bane, Captain Chill: AR/Cold Cor
Well i did PVP in recluses victory and found the bodygurad feature made it so i died esier as a Master mind.
I also found when i stoppped playing a master mind that it was a neat enough crutch that i was able to kill Master Mind Players very quickly with it going.
Problem wiht it is....that with it going, i was able to demolish a force of minions in seconds....all i had to do was use area of effect attacks...on the master mind they took oh 10 points of damage...while i definately eliminated their weapons in fast order.
I also found teleporting them away fromtheir guys worked well to bypass it too...oh well out of range for it....LMAO
That meant the master mind become totally defensesless and unable to stop anything or counter attack alot quicker.
Made me happy, as i could easily eliminate the healing and holding minions with out a care inthe world.
Also i found that the Body gaurd thing does not apply to turrets in a pill box....and while in that mode, your guys are retarded, as they wont even try to do anything for you until after you almost dead.
So basically The Hero Non-players that showed up easily killed my master mind in one or two hits.....and the other players eliminated my master mind more easily while in that mode.
So anywsie.....it was a nice idea...too bad its kind of bad in how it works....I guess it did protect me by a very small percentage veruss damage.
But having a super low health to begin with makes the resistance non-useful.
SO anywise.....i just wanted to post this.
In fact the funniest thing i did was jumping around with a Fire aura on me and then hand clapping.....wasnt trying to kill the master mind...just eliminated the pets super fast that way....my hand clap would demolish pets very fast.
I think the master minds on test caught on to that fact becasue i think they went out of bodyguard mode after i kept killing their guys fast.
Oh well.....i might have had more value out of it...but since the changes to the concealment pool....the way i survived was eliminated on the test server.
I am sure it was great for a force field player...since thats all the effect seams to help with...
I myself with ninjas and the (super energy expensive and nerfed somemore this last patch) poison power set, didnt fair well at all.
Whihc by the way i will post here....whats the deal witht he posion heal.....its now goin to cost 3 times more energy then the O2 boost? And still the last two powers in that set are broken?...good gravy just how long does it take to fix things?
fyi mm's with force fields get the short end of the stick with bodyguard
and i've never heard that they were increasing the cost of the poison heal, that's surely a bug
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In fact the funniest thing i did was jumping around with a Fire aura on me and then hand clapping.....wasnt trying to kill the master mind...just eliminated the pets super fast that way....my hand clap would demolish pets very fast
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while I was tempted to say you sucked at PvP, because my MM did amazingly well while yours was getting pwned, I changed my mind and decided to tell you that you suck at CoH instead because you just told us how you demolished pets with a power that does no damage! lol.
Sometimes it's better to remain silent and just be thought foolish than to open your mouth and remove all doubt
I didn't read all 15 pages, I just skimmed and didn't see this mentioned. If it was brought up and discussed earlier, simply tell me the page number and I'll go look. Thank you.
I run my pets on Passive Mode ALL the time. They mind better, and they don't attack anything I don't want them to. The targeted enemy falls faster so I can reduce the number of bad guys attacking me faster, one at a time. This has been a VERY effective strategy for me using Robots/Dark.
I added "All Attack," "All Go To," and "All Follow" to the tray so it's not as hard to have them attack each target as it sounds. I auto acquire target unless I have a specific target in mind, and the specific target is usually the first one I attack.
Are there any plans to simply add another setting to run in Bodyguard Mode so I can set to Passive AND Bodyguard? I feel I'm being penalized for play style.
no plans for that so far
dont worry, they might fix it in a year or so
lol...it was my fire aure that did the damage the hand clap just knocked them down so i could keep them there.
I am sorry i didnt clarify that.
I also used a spines regen scrapper as well...and got teleported by some master minds into a huge group of minions a very huge group.
I ended up killing alot of minions....just from my continous aura...believe it or not it was the master mind with the arrows who ended up killing me...
The nickel and dime attacks fromthe minions basically stoped my from escaping and regenerating....
That was on recluses victory number 14 about 11pm...a couple nights ago..
And when i say a big group of master minds...i mean it....they had a sea of minions in one gigantic pile with these master minds someone inthe swarm with force fields going...
I have to say it was incredible...i took some screen shots of that....
I took some screens of me killinghte minions fast too.
And i even took some screen shots of me being a pest with another power...which i noticed they reduced the knockback on and the range on.......that was force bolt...the kncok back power onthe force field power set.
but iwas able to knock practicly every one down with it....just couldnt send them flying like i wanted,.
Since Masterminds were introduced there has been the cry, "my minions aren't smart enough." What I think the actual issue is that a lot of people who play masterminds think they just have to tell their minions what to do every so often and they should run around doing exactly what they want them to. If your guys run off chasing someone, you tell them to come back, if they are running of 50 yards down the street and climbing a fire escape to go after someone, you tell them to come back. If you get knocked senseless and can't tell your guys to stay in bodyguard, you pop a break-free and tell them to stay in bodyguard.
Tested a stone-SS tank agains a friend's Thug-poison MM and once he actually figured this out he was able to stand up to me pretty well and it came down to me focusing on his guys 1 at a time and taking him out or one of his minions knocking off my toggels and the rest wacking me fast.
In RV I also jumped into one of the big MM tp-foe traps just to see how long I lasted. Had at least 2 gang wars on me plus everying else they had set up. Could have stayed in there forever except their debuffs finally broke through enough to drop Granite.
The author of this post is speaking in generalities from his personal experience.
Your experience may vary.
NO
a lot of times you tell them commands that they totally ignore
try playing one to lvl 40 and you'll see
Noticed some wierd issues last night, apparently with bodyguard:
1) Fairly frequently, the combat text (I have it in it's own window) will scroll with 5-20 lines of nothing, just pushing all the text out of the window. Sometimes I get messages about my bodyguards absorbing X damage, I'm wondering if this is related?
2) Bodyguard requires more than just being in defensive/follow. If you are in D/F, and use a "petcom_all attack" command, the pets WILL stay in D/F, but you WILL lose the bodyguard protection. At least as near as I could tell, I was definitely getting hit for full damage with them all near to me in D/F.
Request: Can we get the bodyguard deflect text as its own subcategory of message, so we can remove it if we like? It's a lot of extra spam.
Fun note: During the lvl40 event, as a thug/traps it took a whole team of players to take me down. And before they killed me I got this ice/x tank down to 5% and made him hibernate twice. He must have been taunting or something silly, because I wasn't targeting my pets on him for fear of losing bodyguard.
So, note to tanks: taunting masterminds & pets is not necessarily the best idea .
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
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Since Masterminds were introduced there has been the cry, "my minions aren't smart enough." What I think the actual issue is that a lot of people who play masterminds think they just have to tell their minions what to do every so often and they should run around doing exactly what they want them to. If your guys run off chasing someone, you tell them to come back, if they are running of 50 yards down the street and climbing a fire escape to go after someone, you tell them to come back. If you get knocked senseless and can't tell your guys to stay in bodyguard, you pop a break-free and tell them to stay in bodyguard.
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Play one before you tell us that we're simply making things up or are complete idiots in that we don't know how to give commands to our pets. It's the AI that's broken, not the players. No red name has ever responded to our bug reports about disobedient pets with a reply that it's working as intended and we need to control them better.
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In RV I also jumped into one of the big MM tp-foe traps just to see how long I lasted. Had at least 2 gang wars on me plus everying else they had set up. Could have stayed in there forever except their debuffs finally broke through enough to drop Granite.
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Then, obviously, MMs need to be buffed more for PvP... which is what we've been crying about since day one.
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Play one before you tell us that we're simply making things up or are complete idiots in that we don't know how to give commands to our pets. It's the AI that's broken, not the players. No red name has ever responded to our bug reports about disobedient pets with a reply that it's working as intended and we need to control them better.
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I played 1 to the high 30s in beta, have a 40 Necro-dark on live and played thugs-poison at the event so I do know what I am talking about.
So what is the response to your bug reports, "We have cocked up the AI on pets please be patient while we find the bug."
The author of this post is speaking in generalities from his personal experience.
Your experience may vary.
They can't control them.