Official Thread for Mastermind Feature: Bodyguards
By
Agent_Draven,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 13:04 in Developers' Corner
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NO
a lot of times you tell them commands that they totally ignore
try playing one to lvl 40 and you'll see
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Is 34 good enough? Mine never do what I don't tell them to do. Soldiers/FF and the only prob I have with them is the lethal damage resists in the 30s. Everything I end up fighting has it. Makes playing very boring
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So what is the response to your bug reports, "We have cocked up the AI on pets please be patient while we find the bug."
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If you knew what you were talking about, and if you read the patch notes, you would see things like...
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Fixed bug where a Mastermind's pets would sometimes end up under the control of another Mastermind.
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Indicating that pet AI is bugged. So, your premise that us MMs haven't been controlling our pets correctly is idiocy.
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If you knew what you were talking about, and if you read the patch notes, you would see things like...
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Fixed bug where a Mastermind's pets would sometimes end up under the control of another Mastermind.
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Indicating that pet AI is bugged. So, your premise that us MMs haven't been controlling our pets correctly is idiocy.
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The referance you posted stated the bug was fixed, meaning there is still a bug and the devs were lying? If not it doesn't support your contention. If some people are having a problem and others aren't, it dosen't automatically mean there is a bug. There could be many other things effecting henchmen so when there is an issue instead of automatically screaming bug find out if you can replicate the issue. One of the points of testing is to find out why things don't behave the way you think they should.
The Masterminds I have talked to that don't have these problems are constantly telling their minions what to do. Basically as or more often as they are using any of their other powers.
The author of this post is speaking in generalities from his personal experience.
Your experience may vary.
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The referance you posted stated the bug was fixed, meaning there is still a bug and the devs were lying?
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My, you are naive. Many of the announced fixes don't actually 'take.' And that was one example of that fact that there had been problems which you don't seem to have ever acknowledge despite having played a MM to 40 on Live while that bug was active. In fact, if you have a level 40 MM, then why do you say...
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The Masterminds I have talked to that don't have these problems are constantly telling their minions what to do. Basically as or more often as they are using any of their other powers.
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Aren't you a MM yourself? Why do you have to talk to others to find out if there are bugs? You obviously don't read the MM forum or this test forum, e.g.: MM Pets Still Not Fixed. Lots of people posting about their problems, yet, you're going by 'your own experience' and the 'MMs you've talked to.' Is everyone on the forums posting their bugs liars? insane? mental slugs?
You just don't know what you're talking about.
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The referance you posted stated the bug was fixed, meaning there is still a bug and the devs were lying?
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This might be good enough to put in my signature 
The previous poster flamed you enough for it, so I won't bother 
~P~
lol
Shrug I am a firm believer that if you tell your pets to do something they should continue to do it until you give them other orders. Pet Control means exactly that.
I shouldn't have to spam Follow me, because my pets in Defensive have decided to go charging after the hero who is running away from me back to the hospital so the Drones will kill my pets. (Incidently they ignore my instructions)
I shouldn't have to tell them to attack my target over and over again, if I tell them once to attack my target then for the remainder of thier lifespan until I decide they shouldn't aggressively attack my target they should do that.
Spamming commands over and over is not something I should be doing in battle. I have other powers I want to use besides demanding every second that my pets obey my orders.
shrug yeah me too
too bad the ai doesnt work like that anymore
Here's an idea that might help with TP foe without defeating the point of TP foe. Make TP foe an AoE instead of single target. Give it a big enough range to take a few pets with the MM.
They really wouldn't have to limit it to pets either. There would a greater advantage to standing in a group with your teammates. Sure they might pull in the <your favorite squishy here>, but they'd also pull in the stormie, tank, brute, etc.
IMHO, it would turn TP Foe into a tactical tool instead of the single-target ganking device it is now. There are certainly more advantages and disadvantages to this idea, but its food for thought.
Freedom Server
Schaden - 40 Stalker
Dephile - 40 MM
Have the pets stopped being completely and utterly stupid when they're in bodyguard? I've been beaten to death right in front of my guys by a scrapper while they were in defensive...
nope
the devs dont acknowledge mm or dom problems
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My, you are naive. Many of the announced fixes don't actually 'take.' And that was one example of that fact that there had been problems which you don't seem to have ever acknowledge despite having played a MM to 40 on Live while that bug was active. In fact, if you have a level 40 MM, then why do you say...
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Yet, I have never had the problem you have described and neither have many other masterminds I have talked to.
Please flame me some more for pointing out your arguments are not logical and the problems you and a few others are having are not Universal. Keep up the evil devs wont acknowledge they are screwing me and fixes didn't 'take' rants and continue to say I don't know what I am talking about, it really shows your increadable grasp of game mechanics and what testing is for and really helps the devs find out what the actual problem is, if there is one other than your incompetence.
The author of this post is speaking in generalities from his personal experience.
Your experience may vary.
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Yet, I have never had the problem you have described and neither have many other masterminds I have talked to.
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I can't believe you came back for seconds... you really are a glutton.
Pet AI is broke.
I say this, because I've seen it, and I can say honestly I'm not lying. I've pretty much lived in Warburg for the past few months PVP'ing with my MM and I tell ya, there's some funky problems going on, allow me to enumerate:
1a: Most problems with pets remanifest themself after pet resummon, that is, they die, and I bring them back.
1a.1: Pets run back to the last thing they were fighting before they were killed, no command buttons will stop them.
1a.2: I've found that using the "Command Pet" buttons on the "Pet Window" *some times* will recall them, but very rarely
1a.3 This also happens during PVE missions
2: Pets will not attack anything while in Defenisive mode
2a: Because of Jousting, a scrapper can jump over me, use impale for massive amounts of damage, and be gone again before my pets can aggro.
2a.1: This makes for a double problem because the only way I can then *attack* said jouster is to say "Attack my target" at which point I loose body guard.
2a.2: This makes me into a totally defensive player (aka Worthless like a Dom)
2b: If a lich fears a target, that target is no longer a threat apparently and the pets stop attacking
2b.1: This wouldn't be a problem *per say* if it weren't for the fact that intermintenly while fear the enemy can still do things, so I can't tell my pet to attack, or I loose my bodyguards
2b.2: This makes me useless, like a dom
3a: Pets don't respond quick enough to commands given
3a.1: Let's say I do get jousted, and tell my pets to attack a target, generally that target will run towards a friendly NPC, or something else that will whack my pets, when I hit "Follow me" the pets should respond INSTANTLY. When you hit a button, something generally happens right away (i.e. how would you feel if you hit attack... and nothing happened for a good 10 seconds, or BETTER yet, you had to hit your attack button 1-8 times before it would work, YES!)
3a.1.1: Instead what happens when someone hits the "Follow Me" button, the pets give you a big old "KMA" and keep going for the old target, normally repeated hits of the button may or may not work, it's a total crap shoot.
4a. Lastly, and this problem has only a small "tie" to the Bodygaurd feature, this is the problem of pet follow AI being totally borked. Instead of using the "Follow" command, when in Follow mode pets should litterally be under my direct control, when I push W, we all move forward, simple. And we all move at the same speed.
Masterminds have TONS of problems still. The Dev's threw us a cookie, and some gulible people, like you Paris; bought into it.
We, the people who play masterminds every day we're online know that the cookie is laced with lots and lots of poison. It's a move to placate the majority of the masterminds with out really providing ANY value to the PVP mastermind.
Remember, the goal of PVP is to KILL the other players, the goal isn't to "Not Die". Unless they fix either they way bodyguard works (always on if pets are in supremcy range) or dramatically increase our damage to make us not suck, then MasterMinds are worthless in the grand scheme of things.
~Walks Among You~
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My, you are naive. Many of the announced fixes don't actually 'take.' And that was one example of that fact that there had been problems which you don't seem to have ever acknowledge despite having played a MM to 40 on Live while that bug was active. In fact, if you have a level 40 MM, then why do you say...
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Yet, I have never had the problem you have described and neither have many other masterminds I have talked to.
Please flame me some more for pointing out your arguments are not logical and the problems you and a few others are having are not Universal. Keep up the evil devs wont acknowledge they are screwing me and fixes didn't 'take' rants and continue to say I don't know what I am talking about, it really shows your increadable grasp of game mechanics and what testing is for and really helps the devs find out what the actual problem is, if there is one other than your incompetence.
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The fact there are MM players in this very thread that are complaining about AI problems to which the devs have said nothing, or have tried to fix and didn't get right and are still outstanding problems, show that words you type are full of complete and utter ignorance.
When I'm in Bodyguard and I take a hit, and the pets do nothing, there is nothing at fault in me for not controlling my pets. What command should I give them at this point? Follow/Defensive? They're in that state and doing nothing. Attack? Then they're not Bodyguarding.
When I'm in Bodyguard and I take a hit from a flying Blaster and the pets run up the nearest building leaving me unprotected, what is the command I should give them? Follow? They're already on Follow. This is how they 'Follow'... by running up a building away from me. Stay? GoTo [me]? Then they're out of Bodyguard and the next Blaster hit kills me. If I keep spamming Follow/Defensive, then they will stay next to me. But why should I have to spam a command to make them do what I want? And what am I supposed to do about that flying Blaster? Use the seriously gimped Group Fly to go after him? Hah!
It's very simple... you don't know what you're talking about. Stop blaming MMs for not controlling their pets like they should be. Read what other MMs have to say in these forums rather than your supposed 'MM friends.' I'm glad your pets worked 100% perfectly for you and your 'friends.' They aren't for a lot of other players. Got that point yet?
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2: Pets will not attack anything while in Defenisive mode
2a: Because of Jousting, a scrapper can jump over me, use impale for massive amounts of damage, and be gone again before my pets can aggro.
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I have stood there and watched while my pets are in defensive mode as they attack someone who is attacking me. I have been the person attacking a mm with henchmen in bodyguard mode and had them attack me. So they do attack people while in Defensive mode.
Jousting is not a MM or bodyguard issue, it is a Jousting issue. Most players don't have the time to do anything before the Jouster has gone away.
The author of this post is speaking in generalities from his personal experience.
Your experience may vary.
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I have stood there and watched while my pets are in defensive mode as they attack someone who is attacking me.
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So have I. But I've also seen them not attack. Others have seen them not attack. This isn't about your limited experience. Some bugs don't universally show themselves. You are not a help at all.
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Let me put it this way. I've gotten so fed up with "bodyguard" taht I've just goen back to playing the way I used to. When I7 first hit test bodyguard seemed to work a good amount of teh time. But now I'll have things hitting me and my bots just sit there if their in defensive/follow mode. It has been turned utterly useless.
At least the protector bots are healing again.
So far in my limited experience with the thug masterminds I have seen on test that bodyguard is pretty cool, just tough to pull off.
I would have my pets attack my target, then put them back on bodyguard, which I hoped was keeping them still aggroed on the target....but I don't think that worked.
Using the instant 40 test I took my thug up to level 40 and found I could take a stone tank using emp arrow and my thugs. I had them all on body guard and I was able to take damage like nobodies buisness.
Of course then I tried to fight a mob of longbow and got me butt whipped on..it was not cool 
I would like bodyguard to work if they are on follow anything. Like follow aggressive. That way they'll fight anything that comes near you.
It just seems like on defensive they really wont fight anyone unless they are directly attacking you.
AWJFS
-The Award Winnin' J-Man-
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I have stood there and watched while my pets are in defensive mode as they attack someone who is attacking me.
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So have I. But I've also seen them not attack. Others have seen them not attack. This isn't about your limited experience. Some bugs don't universally show themselves. You are not a help at all.
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I've recently started seeing some weird behvior from my bots on live. In the last couple of days, sometimes they will just stand there, looking at the enemy, as I repeatedly push the "attack my target" button. In at least one instance, they would not attack until I put them on aggressive. Other times, they attack just fine.
Last night, on the "clear the wailers from the warehouse" mission, the bots would go haring off behind me whevever new groups of wailers would spawn. The new spawns were outside of visual range down a long hallway and around a corner. I couldn't figure out why the bots kept running away until I noticed the blue "Give us Johnny" text kept coinciding with the bots' decision to abandon me. (Why would they abandon me? I've ceased my policy of percussive maintenance.)
What's odd is that these problems have just started. The bots have usually been very well-behaved during my villian career.
They really ought to just build bodygard into supremacy. if your pets have supremacy, then they are automatically in bodyguard mode, whether they are attacking, staying put, sleeping whatever.
Ack No not the bane of all Developers Logic!!!!
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They really ought to just build bodygard into supremacy. if your pets have supremacy, then they are automatically in bodyguard mode, whether they are attacking, staying put, sleeping whatever.
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But would still need a 'leash.' A 'you-do-not-leave-supremacy-AoE' button. Otherwise, we'd lose Bodyguard when their AI goes nutty and they take off.
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I have found that bodyguard hurts me more then it helps, I won't be using it at all. I'm to fragile as it is being a MM, but then taking part of the dmg my pets take...too much sadly. Plus it only works against single fire powers, AoE shots just multiply the dmg.
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I have found that bodyguard hurts me more then it helps, I won't be using it at all. I'm to fragile as it is being a MM, but then taking part of the dmg my pets take...too much sadly. Plus it only works against single fire powers, AoE shots just multiply the dmg.
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In PvE, I find Bodyguard to be an excellent strategy. But, my secondary is dark, and between the ToHitDebuffs and AoE Heal, I'm able to mitigate and erase damage. I've come to enjoy using Team TP since it clusters all my pets such that a heal of 250 points is multiplied over 8 toons. That's a lot of healing (2,000 hp of healing!). And since Bodyguard spreads damage over the pets, just one group heal erases a whole spawn's worth of alpha strike.
In fact, I was raking the devs over the coals for giving us AoE holds and attacks in the PPP since the MM doesn't want the aggro... but with Bodyguard, I'm happy to take the agro. Now, I'm looking forward to the cone attack.
And in a limited way, Bodyguard does help in PvP. It is a good initial defense. If it's on while traveling (and I've taken Group Fly and Team TP to keep the pets with me when I travel), you're not going to be one- or two-shotted. If you're guarding a position, then it'll take several people to take you down (and if you're in a Pill Box, a whole team). However, Bodyguard is incompatible with attack or chase... you either lose Bodyguard status, or you lose the pets providing Bodyguard, which makes you easy pickings. And if the only thing you can do well in PvP is guard a position... then you're not an effective PvPer.
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they dont respond at all