Official Thread for Recluses Victory: PvP Zone
By
Adam7,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:15 in Developers' Corner
I think the entire zone would be more fun if there were no drones whatsoever, and when you die you spawn in a rez ring next to the zone entrance. That way, there is no "safe zone" that creates siege dynamics. Also, when you zone in you should spawn at a random location, such as on the tops of buildings, throughout the zone.
Also, the base camping phenomenon is not entirely based on camping to get people that just rezzed, most of the people camping the base are there because someone they were fighting fled there.
Guess you're right. With the current toHitBuffs I guess i would like to lessen the damage, rather than try to "dodge" it with a defense set. If I remember reading correct, the current toHitBuffs (FA & Tatics) currently outweigh even some of the best defenses. But can anyone post some hard numbers, or even give a formula as to see how some of the best defenses stack up against other ACC enhancements.
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Also, the base camping phenomenon is not entirely based on camping to get people that just rezzed, most of the people camping the base are there because someone they were fighting fled there.
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That's not even remotely true in RV right now. There are 10-15 habitual campers that just sit there...for hours...at the edge of the Villain base and actively try to TP people OUT of the base and into their mob complete with preset Ice Patches, Trip Mines, and Illusion pets out the wazoo.
When I logged my SS/EA in yesterday (which is pretty much immune to TP Foe) I was hit with 3 failed attempts to TP me out of the safe zone before I got halfway up the "runway". 3 ATTEMPTS! I hadn't even gotten into the zone yet! Try to justify that. Hell...there's a Blaster out there with 3x range in TP Foe and Boost Range who can TP a villain from inside the villain base...he got me after an Overload crash when my TP protection was down and I was around the corner...apparenty there's enough of a gap in the position of the walls where you can target someone inside the base from the right angle. Because of this kind of garbage, I respecced a version of that toon to act specifically as a TP bot. Is it cheap? Sure, okay. But nobody is making those campers stand there. And I only bring that guy out when the ganking is really bad.
What I find most ironic about these people is that they are the biggest whiners when they get Droned. Isn't TPing a single player out of the base and into an group that out levels, out powers, and outnumbers the rest of the villains in the zone combined essentially the same thing? There's no hope of survival in either case for the one getting TPed. The Villains in RV resort to droning because they don't have the powers, or the numbers, to fight back against the gank squad at the front door. The easiest way to stop the droning is to go out into the zone and play the friggin game. Nobody requires those "heroes" to stand there and do nothing all day. There are uncaptured pillboxes out there, and if you actually moved away from the entrance...gasp...you might even find some villains out there in the zone to beat up legitimately.
[edit]After all the ranting, I forgot to add this...[/edit]
As for the rest of your post Gerswin, I couldn't agree more. Your setup sounds much more entertaining than the one currently in use
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While it's cool to see the signature heroes and villains, I won't be bothering to attack them. There's no point, they're impossible to take down. Before last night's CoP, we had 20+ heroes attacking Lord Recluse, all the heavies in the zone, and who knows how many pets - and his life bar barely budged. I think I saw it drop to about 80% once. Lag was horrendous with all the power effects being thrown around. Either tone these guys down or people will just ignore them.
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I agree that lag is a big concern for this zone. With 2 or 3 Signature AV's/Heroes spawning at a time with over 70K HP (note that is more than Hamidon), it takes a whole lot to take them down, even with all the Heavys on them. There were a couple of nights where I was teamed in RV and got all the badges except Scirocco, so it is possible to take them down. However, needing to turn graphics quality down to bare minimum in order to play in the zone cheapens the experience. The devs did an absolutely wonderful job with the design of this zone. It's a shame that many will need to experience it at extremely low quality (if at all).
Hades brings up a good point about base camping too. The bases (especially the villain one) are in need of serious re-work to prevent camping. I think it fair to say it's a given that opposing groups will be camping each others Heavy pads to prevent them from taking control of the pets.
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
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However, if there are folks that are spamming AoE snares, Holds, Confusion, and all the other nasty stuff to keep me from running out, I fully intend on thinning out the ranks.
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I think either thing-- base camping or TP foeing-- is bad sportsmanship. When I finally encountered the entrance to the Villain bae, I turned tail. I don't want to be someone who exploits. TP Foe and hit me all you like, but DON'T just throw me into a drone.
Anyways... that's one opinion. I don't think either act is justified and it disappoints me that players think that's winning.
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In my mind, one leads to the other. Base camping involves TP Foe into a mass of heroes that already have powers queued up that you have no chance of escaping. Base camping seems to be more despicable because the folks doing it actually get the reward of reputation. Droning is an act of desperation with no reward, but yields the same results. Someone has to run back.
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HA, so is running from a fight, especcialy stalkers, when rv comes out, ill be able to use fa on them
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
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While it's cool to see the signature heroes and villains, I won't be bothering to attack them. There's no point, they're impossible to take down. Before last night's CoP, we had 20+ heroes attacking Lord Recluse, all the heavies in the zone, and who knows how many pets - and his life bar barely budged. I think I saw it drop to about 80% once. Lag was horrendous with all the power effects being thrown around. Either tone these guys down or people will just ignore them.
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I agree that lag is a big concern for this zone. With 2 or 3 Signature AV's/Heroes spawning at a time with over 70K HP (note that is more than Hamidon), it takes a whole lot to take them down, even with all the Heavys on them. There were a couple of nights where I was teamed in RV and got all the badges except Scirocco, so it is possible to take them down. However, needing to turn graphics quality down to bare minimum in order to play in the zone cheapens the experience. The devs did an absolutely wonderful job with the design of this zone. It's a shame that many will need to experience it at extremely low quality (if at all).
Hades brings up a good point about base camping too. The bases (especially the villain one) are in need of serious re-work to prevent camping. I think it fair to say it's a given that opposing groups will be camping each others Heavy pads to prevent them from taking control of the pets.
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See, me personally I would just get a whole bunch of shovels and force The Council to dig and underground interweb underneath AP, then have all the exits all over the place. We all know the doors are in place for the zones.. just have folks pop out of there from underground. Just have it so heroes/villains can't open the opposing side's door and add a hellacious -perception buff whenever someone walks through it to lose targetting. This shows the level of arachnos/hero infiltration so I don't think it would lose the immersion. Give both sides 5 exits so it would take some coordinated effort to camp them, and even have the pop you out a random door whenever you exit the base. Obviously it is already in place since they have the dimensional door in the same zone, twice.. y'know. Just trying to brainstorm here. I just like having a secret escape hatch for the villains. I don't mind so much the Heavy camping, but at least you have the option of turning around and doing something else.
how come when i use placate against a scrapper he just keeps on coming? if he has assault isnt it just supposed to lessen the placate time, not totally get rid of it?
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how come when i use placate against a scrapper he just keeps on coming? if he has assault isnt it just supposed to lessen the placate time, not totally get rid of it?
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Placate is not autohit, and gets knocked out if you are DoTted.
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While it's cool to see the signature heroes and villains, I won't be bothering to attack them. There's no point, they're impossible to take down. Before last night's CoP, we had 20+ heroes attacking Lord Recluse, all the heavies in the zone, and who knows how many pets - and his life bar barely budged. I think I saw it drop to about 80% once. Lag was horrendous with all the power effects being thrown around. Either tone these guys down or people will just ignore them.
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I agree that lag is a big concern for this zone. With 2 or 3 Signature AV's/Heroes spawning at a time with over 70K HP (note that is more than Hamidon), it takes a whole lot to take them down, even with all the Heavys on them. There were a couple of nights where I was teamed in RV and got all the badges except Scirocco, so it is possible to take them down. However, needing to turn graphics quality down to bare minimum in order to play in the zone cheapens the experience. The devs did an absolutely wonderful job with the design of this zone. It's a shame that many will need to experience it at extremely low quality (if at all).
Hades brings up a good point about base camping too. The bases (especially the villain one) are in need of serious re-work to prevent camping. I think it fair to say it's a given that opposing groups will be camping each others Heavy pads to prevent them from taking control of the pets.
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YMMV, but I've heard and seen Warburg missiles used to significantly soften up these guys. The full triad ought to allow an 8-man team to take one down.
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If you read what I said closely, I said you're flat out wrong.
You are.
But keep posting. You say something wrong long enough, it's still wrong.
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(*Looks around*) (*checks reality to make sure that normal filters and laws apply*) Yeeeaaaaaah, somebody needs their reality check. You SAID he's wrong...but that doesn't make YOU right. Just a thought for the guy who seems to be unable to grasp use of English, definitions of words, and context.
@Dianeces : Yeah, the WB Nukes have a drastic effect on even the hardest AVs and Monsters (speaking from both Hero and Villain experience), so I'd assume that a team that decided to drop an entire trio (or more than one, or save trios to chain the effects) could weaken the Sigs enough that they could be dropped. I haven't tested that (STILL can't zone in...cursed graphics crap-out), but I'd think it's a safe bet.
it recently got nerfed so supposedly they just hit tab again and have re-targeted you
i dont play heroes so i cant test it
are players not teleported back to their base after a reversion?
cuz 1 just happened but i saw a hero right by villain base like 15 secs later
also it's impossible to capture a robot with all the heroes camping them. hide supresses when you click it and then they even sneeze and you're interrupted and soon dead
Has anyone else noticed the turrets now doing copious amounts of DoT fire damage? I helped attack a villain pillbox last night and noticed my health dropping quite rapidly. I checked the combat log and noticed the turrets were doing ticks of 25-30 points of fire damage. Oh yeah, I was on my Tanker. 
A few hours of putzing around with my 50, here's my take. It's a ton of fun, buggy fun, but still fun. The invisible skirt line of recluse is very annoying. The heavies are fun. The AV's that spawn are absurdly tough. I understand that they aren't really intended to be taken down, but at least make it so the give no debt and no xp. Zone spawn debt is fine, but these AV's are ridiculus for it.
Just IMO.
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The invisible skirt line of recluse is very annoying.
[/ QUOTE ]I'd like to second that.
We know where the entrances/exits are. Just show them permanently closed... sealed up by combat and rubble. Give us more room to run in with the extra space.
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The invisible skirt line of recluse is very annoying.
[/ QUOTE ]I'd like to second that.
We know where the entrances/exits are. Just show them permanently closed... sealed up by combat and rubble. Give us more room to run in with the extra space.
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I think he was talking about the section of Lord Recluse's statue that is invisible when the zone is neutral/hero. 
One comment I would like to make is with the pillbox design. I was really hoping for something more like those in Bloody Bay, or perhaps even the towers you must lead the scientists to in Warbug.
The pillboxes are just dropped in the open. I would really like it if they (or some) were made more defendable, giving the more static sets (Traps, Dark Miasma, Devices, Storm, etc) a role in the pvp zone environment (other than TpFoe ganking).
As it stands, the boxes are all out in the open which makes them much to easy to take out and zerg, or snipe at long range. Just a thought. 
Ahhh... base campers. The cause of me quitting Rv last night. That and the fact that no villains wanted to team. That always helps a Corruptor (Sonic/Rad) live a long life in this PvP zone (sarcasm). I respec'd with whatever I could for survival. My Corruptor got equipped with Tough, Weave, Acrobatics, Stealth, and Combat Jump (4 slotted)up and running. I didn't have room for any Leadership pool, but I don't think that would have helped even if I had had it. What happens time after time after time? Tp'd, ganked and toggles dropped in 4-5 hits, and dead. I had Double Accuracy enhancement in every attack that I could afford after trying to protect myself as well as I could. I rarely even had the chance to debuff anyone before I was taken out.
I'm not whining here...just frustrated. I'm not the most experienced PvP-er out there, but considering the fact that the game is so geared toward it I realize that it is necessary to learn the ways of the "Force", so to speak. The villains, for one reason or another, don't seem to want to team up. Way too many Heroes camp out the Villain base. And being an experienced player in PvE isn't helping me in the least to survive in this zone. Other PvP zones I can survive in with almost any character except my Dominator. But that is possibly due to lack of time that I spend there with him. I dunno.
I try a little hit and run tactic... I think I am immediately put on FOLLOW because the next thing I know, a whole team is on me when just a second before there was only one person.
I have been spending at least an hour every night in this zone. The only AT that I have had success with is my Brute. Is it because Heroes got Hami's? If so... negate them for the duration of testing. I repeat... FOR TESTING... before you go all Xena on my [censored] for suggesting it. Villains don't get an equivalent enhancement and by the looks of it they won't be getting one unless I have missed a Topic thread somewhere that says we will.
I've gone in late enough at night as well, when it is possible to sidestep the tp's to gankville. The temporal anchors wipe me out before I can even jump away. These are the yellow con ones, not the purple level 54's that I have seen.
Again, I'm not whining. I'm frustrated. My Heroes do fine here. Surviveability is good for them. My villains... no way. My Corruptor, after at least an hour for the last three nights of having him there, has never gotten one kill. Not a single win. I've been a good sport. I don't complain in chat. I go back over and over and try to learn from my mistakes with my Villains. But time and time again it is my defeat. Only once, when I had three Blasters on me, did I ever feel like I had done something right. They missed over and over until a Spines Scrapper stepped in and detoggled me and Immobilized me with one hit. I was out in an instant.
What is a Corruptor to do? I'd gladly take any advice. Where once I hated PvP, I am undertaking this as a challenge because I see where the fun can be had. My Brute can survive fine. I played a friends' level 41 NB/Ninj stalker since mine is still level 25. That AT didn't last long either.
eDit: forgot a word.
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One comment I would like to make is with the pillbox design. I was really hoping for something more like those in Bloody Bay, or perhaps even the towers you must lead the scientists to in Warbug.
The pillboxes are just dropped in the open. I would really like it if they (or some) were made more defendable, giving the more static sets (Traps, Dark Miasma, Devices, Storm, etc) a role in the pvp zone environment (other than TpFoe ganking).
As it stands, the boxes are all out in the open which makes them much to easy to take out and zerg, or snipe at long range. Just a thought.
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I agree 100%.
Very disappointed in the look of the pillboxes. I guess I expected, well...... a pillbox! Not some Nintendo gamecube looking transplant. Make them old school cool, not new age glowy. 
quick question, what exactly is a Hami?
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quick question, what exactly is a Hami?
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Quick answer: the biggest mob in CoX (Currently)
Pic
BTW, unless you're with a raid, you would already be dead at this distance.
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Also, the base camping phenomenon is not entirely based on camping to get people that just rezzed, most of the people camping the base are there because someone they were fighting fled there.
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That's not even remotely true in RV right now. There are 10-15 habitual campers that just sit there...for hours...at the edge of the Villain base and actively try to TP people OUT of the base and into their mob complete with preset Ice Patches, Trip Mines, and Illusion pets out the wazoo.
When I logged my SS/EA in yesterday (which is pretty much immune to TP Foe) I was hit with 3 failed attempts to TP me out of the safe zone before I got halfway up the "runway". 3 ATTEMPTS! I hadn't even gotten into the zone yet! Try to justify that. Hell...there's a Blaster out there with 3x range in TP Foe and Boost Range who can TP a villain from inside the villain base...he got me after an Overload crash when my TP protection was down and I was around the corner...apparenty there's enough of a gap in the position of the walls where you can target someone inside the base from the right angle. Because of this kind of garbage, I respecced a version of that toon to act specifically as a TP bot. Is it cheap? Sure, okay. But nobody is making those campers stand there. And I only bring that guy out when the ganking is really bad.
What I find most ironic about these people is that they are the biggest whiners when they get Droned. Isn't TPing a single player out of the base and into an group that out levels, out powers, and outnumbers the rest of the villains in the zone combined essentially the same thing? There's no hope of survival in either case for the one getting TPed. The Villains in RV resort to droning because they don't have the powers, or the numbers, to fight back against the gank squad at the front door. The easiest way to stop the droning is to go out into the zone and play the friggin game. Nobody requires those "heroes" to stand there and do nothing all day. There are uncaptured pillboxes out there, and if you actually moved away from the entrance...gasp...you might even find some villains out there in the zone to beat up legitimately.
[edit]After all the ranting, I forgot to add this...[/edit]
As for the rest of your post Gerswin, I couldn't agree more. Your setup sounds much more entertaining than the one currently in use
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I experienced this. No big deal, but seriously - what are the players playing those heroes thinking? The perpetual ganking isn't proving anything, and it is interfering with the testing of the zone. I just wanted to go run around and look for a signature hero/villain and see how things worked; obviously, I should do it with a hero, and I will later, but I was still surprised at the short-sightedness.
IMO the base camping is complete garbage and speaks very lowly of those particular players. That being said, you can't say they aren't testing. Remember CoV beta when stalkers could camp in the hospital? Drones were quickly placed. I would assume something will be done to help with RV base camping to an extent.
By being raging [censored] they are helping to point out a glaring problem before it hits live.
I was also one who finally copied over a level 50 hero so I could take a look at the zone.
As a villian I was wondering why there were so many stacked at the entrance there waiting. I turn the corner - TP into an Ice Slick with trip mines. Tried several times to get out there and see what is going on and had no chance.
I realize they may change some things before I7 goes live - but since this is kinda the new shiney for level 50 heroes isn't this going to be the same on live?
Like RT said, testing like this will hopefully expose some things that they need to fix.
Murph
Murph's 50s:
H: Tank, Cont, Def, Scrapper, Blaster, Bane
V: MM x5, Corr x2, Stalker, Dom, Fort
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However, if there are folks that are spamming AoE snares, Holds, Confusion, and all the other nasty stuff to keep me from running out, I fully intend on thinning out the ranks.
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I think either thing-- base camping or TP foeing-- is bad sportsmanship. When I finally encountered the entrance to the Villain bae, I turned tail. I don't want to be someone who exploits. TP Foe and hit me all you like, but DON'T just throw me into a drone.
Anyways... that's one opinion. I don't think either act is justified and it disappoints me that players think that's winning.
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In my mind, one leads to the other. Base camping involves TP Foe into a mass of heroes that already have powers queued up that you have no chance of escaping. Base camping seems to be more despicable because the folks doing it actually get the reward of reputation. Droning is an act of desperation with no reward, but yields the same results. Someone has to run back.