Official Thread for Recluses Victory: PvP Zone
By
Adam7,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:15 in Developers' Corner
[ QUOTE ]
Totally false. Never seen anything even remotely like this happen after many hours in RV.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, it seems to happen quite often. With FA up, hitting anything, including and of course stalkers, is no real problem to me. And I tend to see them despite their best efforts.
Very discouraging as a villain player, very pleasing as a hero player.
But bad for the game.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
[ QUOTE ]
Very discouraging as a villain player, very pleasing as a hero player.
But bad for the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I found a nice Stalker (Stalkerbot1 I think?) that wanted to test it as well and he proceeded to let me wail on him for a bit.
I had FA(2 slots for ToHit)/Buildup(1 slot for ToHit)/Invince(3 slots for ToHit) and 2 Accs in all of my attacks - pretty accuracy heavy build. Without his Elude I was hitting pretty consistently. When he popped it on I was completely floored. I believe my numbers were at about 18% with buildup - and around 12% without. I added one Large Acc Insp and got it up to about 22%.
#5486727 - Tue May 09 2006 01:37 PM
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely true. Seen it often during many hours in RV. Best strategy to exploit: elude AT loads up on heavies then uses them with impugnity since none can ever hit their master -- except with the occasional buildup/aim, and that is easily overcome by an aid self or two.
[ QUOTE ]
The more I play in RV with my EM/SR Stalker and my DM/EA Brute the more apparent how bad it is. I was chased and hit consistantly with Elude on this morning by both a Katana/Regen and some sort of Ill Controller and was unable to lose them and escape. THey could see me at quite a distance and they NEVER failed to hit me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally false. Never seen anything even remotely like this happen after many hours in RV.
***
Glad to see i7 downloading on live. Might stop this thread from getting increasingly far-fetched and self-serving.
[/ QUOTE ]
Haven't we been over this before? You know, the whole reality thing? Differing experiences doesn't make yours automatically valid and someone else's automatically false. For example, if I were to tell you that in ONE DAY, my Blaster had 16 even-con minion targets in range of Nova, used Aim, Build Up, popped Nova...and didn't hit anyone with "streak breaker" in effect...then I obviously must be lying, simply because this has never happened to YOU (even once, I'd bet). Yeah, the odds are something like 6.5536e20 to one (that's 655.36 QUINTILLION, or 655,360 QUADRILLION to uno for you non-sciency types)...guess I should buy a lotto ticket. Reality doesn't wait for your mandates, man...cope with it. Accept that your experiences differ from others, and that in the course of testing, you (or they) may be an anomoly.
[ QUOTE ]
Glad to see i7 downloading on live. Might stop this thread from getting increasingly far-fetched and self-serving.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see how the majority of the people in this thread are looking to screw one side over the other as you seem to be implying. I'd hazard to guess that most of us have both heroes and villains of high enough level to be on both sides of the debate here. Aside from the occasional nerf call on FA (which I totally disagree with) all I've really seen in this thread is an overwhelming request on the part of the villain side to have the PPPs re-evaluated. I don't think that's completely out of bounds, do you? The simple fact is that the villain side simply does not have any kind of general access to certain balance changing utility powers like FA, PFF, IW, or FoN...and many of us don't think that a part time pet and a web grenade on steroids makes up for it.
[ QUOTE ]
Regen scrappers are nerfed and noone plays them because they suck so bad.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lies! Lies, I tell you! Lies! 
What I find most interesting in RV is the fact that on the villian side, Stalkers can no longer one shot - which is really what the AT is supposed to do, yet scrappers and /em blasters can still two shot. Most Stalkers can't two shot anymore, even after an AS. I don't play a stalker, never have, but this seems very unbalanced in the heroes favor.
Also the fact that the hero side can run out of the zone and buy inspirations and be back in the zone in about a minute, while the villians have no one close to entrance of the zone that they can buy from. A trip out and back in is a good five minutes. 
FREEDOM:
Furious Fate L50 Grav/storm
Elemental Fate L50 Ice/electric
Mortal Fate L50 MA/Invulnerable
Fatal Fury L50 Mind/Psy
and several in the works
TRIUMPH:
7 L50's mostly controllers, mostly gravity.
I was just noticing this last night. There are contacts right inside of City Hall who sell inspirations but I don't have any contacts close by who sell them in Grandville.
does the rikti guy not sell inspirations? my guy on test has 3 mishs already so i cant get the rikti guy as a contact yet
The Rikti guy does sell inspirations, but his loadout is in the original CoH style where he only has Blues, Reds, and I think Yellows (maybe purps, I can't remember atm), but it's the 3 default insps that CoH contacts offer until you do more of their missions.
I'm thinking they did this on purpose though, because although you can buy insps from the contacts in Atlas...you only get the three defaults unless you did their missions as a lowbie. I know my 50 never did any of their missions and now all I can get in Atlas, even as a hero, are the default 3 insps.
What I'd love to see is CoH contacts changed so that they offer all the insps immediately just like the CoV ones do...because, yeah, I find I'd rather just fight and die without insps in RV than make the trek all the way back to Nerva to get them (especially Break Frees).
[ QUOTE ]
What I find most interesting in RV is the fact that on the villian side, Stalkers can no longer one shot - which is really what the AT is supposed to do, yet scrappers and /em blasters can still two shot. Most Stalkers can't two shot anymore, even after an AS. I don't play a stalker, never have, but this seems very unbalanced in the heroes favor.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, that is exaclty the point. The devs created a code that prevents 1-shot kills; instead, you can only be hit for a max of 90%-95% of your max HP. This applies to any AT. This applies when a player is hit by another player or mob - it does not apply to a player attacking a mob.
I've played a Stalker, and IMHO, I don't think this is wholly unbalanced since it doesn't affect the PvE game too much, and gives PvP heroes and villians (Warburg) a last chance to fight or fly. Plus, I think any Stalker with BU should be able to two-shot the squishier ATs.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Totally false. Never seen anything even remotely like this happen after many hours in RV.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, it seems to happen quite often. With FA up, hitting anything, including and of course stalkers, is no real problem to me. And I tend to see them despite their best efforts.
Very discouraging as a villain player, very pleasing as a hero player.
But bad for the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not that I don't believe you, but test it on an Elude running Stalker and show us your results if you get a chance.
The only hero type that I can imagine having more +To Hit and Acc than my Tanker would be a BS/Inv with both Tactics and FA (since they would get the Invince slotting and +5% for weapon also - as well as Build Up). Of course this is all without a team of people buffing and debuffing - any hero or villain should be SoL against that.
I'm still surprised by the drastic difference between Overload and Elude defenses.
A few thoughts on this thread:
Do some testing in the arena. Lots of times zone PvP results can be skewed. I cannot hit an eluding stalker at all with my dm/regen (3 to hitbuffs in FA and tactics), 3xacc in touch of fear (inherently more accurate) in the arena, but I was chewing them up in RV because of a friendly empath giving fly-by fortitude. On the reverse side, I can generally hit nearly every time against non-elude/overload/MoG/PFF users in the arena, but in the zone PvP I often miss due to debuffs from the nearby mobs.
I think that this causes an unhealthy PvP environment because there are a lot of players that feel like they can only compete while their top-tier defensive click power is running, and then they just wait in their base or zone to refill inspirations while their power recharges. The "crash" which is dangerous in PvE is not so much of an issue in PvP because the fights are so much shorter.
What you end up with is a bunch of people that are "uber" for a few minutes, then bored until their power recharges. This prevents effective teaming, encourages base-camping, and creates a tohit/acc vs defense arms race that breeds a limited selection of PvP viable builds. I am hoping that the Pillbox mini game becomes popular, because you can throw FOTM out the window when it comes to taking, defending, scouting, etc. the pillboxes. Last night I saw a TA defender doing more to slow down the villain attack on the turrets than any scrapper or blaster, even though his build could be considered "gimp" for arena-type PvP. Also, until last night the zone has usually been dominated by stalkers and brutes on the villain side, without too much success. The swarm of corrupters, dominators, and a few MM's that showed up late night nearly succeeded in winning the zone against a higher zone population of heroes.
[ QUOTE ]
Also, until last night the zone has usually been dominated by stalkers and brutes on the villain side, without too much success. The swarm of corrupters, dominators, and a few MM's that showed up late night nearly succeeded in winning the zone against a higher zone population of heroes.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was on at the same time you were last night. The only reason the villains were winning the zone was because the heroes were letting them in order to see the signature heroes that spawn. That's the only time the villains ever take the zone right now. Don't be fooled into thinking the disparities are not as bad as they are for that reason.
You'll notice (and you should have because I saw you hovering nearby) that while the villains were supposedly "winning" there was also a huge mass of heroes once again standing outside the villain base ganking anything that moved. I had 6 heroes all chase me as soon as I left the safe zone and due to some unfortunately timed lag, couldn't run fast enough to get away from them. By the time my client caught up to what was happening, I was face down on the ground and had only made it about 300 yards out. So yeah...we we're really kickin' some butt there.
You must have logged by the time the villain team started kicking butt. The villain base was free of camping for at least three hours, I assure you. 
[ QUOTE ]
The Rikti guy does sell inspirations, but his loadout is in the original CoH style where he only has Blues, Reds, and I think Yellows (maybe purps, I can't remember atm), but it's the 3 default insps that CoH contacts offer until you do more of their missions.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually IF you run 1 mission from the Rikti guy in the Main Hall he will supply you with all Insp, also I believe he is coded to supply you with your AT Enhancements on top of the temp weapons & pets he will give you for running more missions.
"My life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely pretty and well preserved, but rather I will skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming...WOW...What a Ride"
Lords of the Dead (from Freedom) brought a team of 7 corruptors and 1 dominator into RV last night about 11pm eastern. When we came in, a number of heroes were camping the villain base. We buffed up inside the base and busted out, clearing the campers within 30 seconds or so. We spent the first hour or so ignoring the pillboxes and just killing heroes.
We picked up Soul of Priest as a ninth cor for a bit along the way and there were a few random villains here and there around where we were fighting. The odds were somewhere between 3:1 and 2:1 in favor of heroes all night and at no point did the heroes ever "let us win." In fact, after a while, we started seeing heroes in broadcast trying to get organized to come after us.
At the end of the first hour, we took a break and one of our members went back through his logs; we made 80 kills in that first hour and had less than 5 deaths. We then started running pillboxes primarily and killing only the heroes that showed up against us. For the next two hours, neither side was able to take the zone. Several times we were one pillbox away from taking it, and I'm pretty sure we were competing against 2 hero teams (we would see two pillboxes go to heroes very quickly.) Somebody also did the recall friend thing on one of the hero pillboxes, making it impossible for villains to take (a very <censored> thing to do IMHO.) We finally gave up when four or five of us (!) had our clients lock up and crash at nearly the same time. By the time we all would have been able to get back in and get organized the heroes would have won the zone.
Final kill tally was around 120 with at most 1 or 2 deaths per team member (with a few who never died at all.)
This isn't meant to be a brag (much ), but more of a statement on villain effectiveness in high level PvP. Whatever worries I ever had about RV being unbalanced against villains are pretty much gone. Skill, organization and good builds can still beat superior numbers; same as every other zone. A smaller organized team can take and hold pillboxes against a larger unorganized one.
To those who were in last night (hero and villain), it was a wicked fun fight, some of the best zone PvP we've seen in a long, long time. We hope to do it again very soon.
I now have a new issue with RV,
Today I was playing a lil Hooky and went home to get in some PVPin
/em Smack
..Back on point
So anyway there were about 12 heroes and we started beating on the Signature Villain that spawned, would you believe Lord Recluse and Black Scorpion. Because we all focused on Recluse we was able to beat him down to below 8000HP. Would you believe the nerve of that guy to call in support to save his [censored]? I dont mean some lil bots he spawned about 10-12 lv54 Scouts and Executioners. 
Its not bad enough these guys are Umberly Hard to take down, but that punk had called for help
I'm hurt, we got SMASHED! and I think maybe 1 person on the team got away and no, we didnt take him down either.
"My life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely pretty and well preserved, but rather I will skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming...WOW...What a Ride"
haha stupid heroes
[ QUOTE ]
Final kill tally was around 120 with at most 1 or 2 deaths per team member (with a few who never died at all.)
[/ QUOTE ]
and yet despite this dominance you were unable to win the zone?!? that's disturbing. is the zone win just some carrot dangling out in front of PvPers that will never get reached?
[ QUOTE ]
This isn't meant to be a brag (much ), but more of a statement on villain effectiveness in high level PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]
that's good to know. especially with raids coming.
At the end of the first hour, we took a break and one of our members went back through his logs; we made 80 kills in that first hour and had less than 5 deaths. We then started running pillboxes primarily and killing only the heroes that showed up against us. For the next two hours, neither side was able to take the zone. Several times we were one pillbox away from taking it, and I'm pretty sure we were competing against 2 hero teams (we would see two pillboxes go to heroes very quickly.) Somebody also did the recall friend thing on one of the hero pillboxes, making it impossible for villains to take (a very <censored> thing to do IMHO.) We finally gave up when four or five of us (!) had our clients lock up and crash at nearly the same time. By the time we all would have been able to get back in and get organized the heroes would have won the zone.
Final kill tally was around 120 with at most 1 or 2 deaths per team member (with a few who never died at all.)
This isn't meant to be a brag (much ), but more of a statement on villain effectiveness in high level PvP. Whatever worries I ever had about RV being unbalanced against villains are pretty much gone. Skill, organization and good builds can still beat superior numbers; same as every other zone. A smaller organized team can take and hold pillboxes against a larger unorganized one.
To those who were in last night (hero and villain), it was a wicked fun fight, some of the best zone PvP we've seen in a long, long time. We hope to do it again very soon.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good Work LOTD- The zone is very much about using Strategies.
regarding the pillboxes and recall, Heroes did not do this- it is a bug; currently, when someone controlling the pillbox dies the turrets sometimes follow them to the reclamator.
We have fixed this, and it will be uploaded soon.
A_V
They couldnt win the zone because there was a team of 4 heroes at every pillbox that moved in as soon as the swarm of corrupters left. That was our plan once we realized we were no organized enough to fight them directly.
Yep, well once the children that Drone teleport for 2 hours straight leave the zone it actually becomes fun..
I really don't like to hear whining about being TP'd into the drones. If you weren't base camping then it wouldn't happen.
[ QUOTE ]
Yep, well once the children that Drone teleport for 2 hours straight leave the zone it actually becomes fun..
[/ QUOTE ]
There's an easy way around this, of course: Stay away from the opposing base.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Now that we have Teleport Defense as part of many existing powers, the same has to be done for Siphon Speed.
Keeping this on-topic for RV - I realized the problem with Siphon when the AVs showed up and I got Siphoned and couldn't flee from them. When something can 1-shot me, I don't want to stand in melee range of them!
I would suggest having Negative Energy protection apply to Siphon Speed, as a drain of your power seems Negative to me.