Official Thread for Recluses Victory: PvP Zone
By
Adam7,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:15 in Developers' Corner
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We (LotD) don't have a problem, but the reason other villains can't get organized is because they're toast as soon as they set foot outside the base front door. They've got no place to setup, and the lack of a staging area that is relatively safe (no zone lines like warburg!) is hurting them.
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I can attest to this. I played with a group from LotD on Sunday and it was one of the few times the villains were able to mount an offensive...but LotD is not your average PuG. From what I understand, they are a pretty dedicated PvP group who all run Vent and run a very coordinated team with lots of buffers. Unfiortunately, with all the current disparities between heros and villains, a well oiled machine like LotD is necessary to even make a dent in the hero side which is usually just a bunch of PuGs and soloists. I've been on plenty of villain PuGs in RV and like Hades said, there's just nowhere to setup unless you all hide inside the base, and even then, the villains are so outnumbered that even a team of 8 can't fully deal with the 10-20 heroes camping the base...let alone the other 20-30 out in the rest of the zone.
btw...Hades, if you were one of the ones in RV on Sunday, thanks for letting me tag along with you guys. That was some of the best fun I've had in RV since it came out. After you all left, it want right back into base camping and TP ganking.
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And robots are cool.
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I HATE ROBOTS!!!! ROWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!
i love how a few heros have actually respeced specifcally for tping out of the base. ive gotten tped from behind the wall next to the teleporter, and thats what ended my rv fun last night.
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Honestly if the dev's don't want to go wity my multiple respawn point idea, then they should probably just have the AV's and a lot of hard hitting mobs show up and clear enough space around the bases so that people can realistically escape.
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NOT to bust your chops but if you think bringing AV's to the bases is a realitstic way of getting you out your sense of reality be skewed.
The minute AV's start popping up every hero is going to flock to them like flies to... well you know what you villains are and smell like. 
Just for the chance to fight an av...
Some PvP Thoughts From Today:
Logged in to check my build some more and to mess around in RV. First I tried to tackle Mako along with about 16 heros and Mechs. We got him down to about 1/7th health and he went into a Super Mako MoG. Absolutely, 100% could not hit him no matter what ANY of us did - and he regen'ed all the way back to full Health. OK we say, lets try again since the recharge on that thing has to be pretty huge. Nope, same thing every time we got him below 25% health. Pretty freaking ridiculous. Finally we all gave up.
Next I heard some blasters complaining about not being able to hit Stalkers today - AT ALL. Odd, I thought. Just yesterday I was having no problems so I tried it as well. Very, very difficult. I found a nice Stalker (Stalkerbot1 I think?) that wanted to test it as well and he proceeded to let me wail on him for a bit.
I had FA(2 slots for ToHit)/Buildup(1 slot for ToHit)/Invince(3 slots for ToHit) and 2 Accs in all of my attacks - pretty accuracy heavy build. Without his Elude I was hitting pretty consistently. When he popped it on I was completely floored. I believe my numbers were at about 18% with buildup - and around 12% without. I added one Large Acc Insp and got it up to about 22%. Maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist - but this was NOWHERE near what I have been seeing to date. I'm thinking that todays patch had to have something to do with Stalkers defense. Several people in the zone were complaining about how they couldn't hit Stalkers while throwing everything they had at them - and I can understand seeing my low % and the huge acc buffs I was using.
After this test I had a nice Brute(Hundred) that wanted to test his Overload #s as well. With the same slotting above I was hitting him pretty consistently with his normal defenses running. When Overload kicked in I was down to about 38%. We tested at length - with over 25 attacks in between interruptions so the numbers seem pretty solid.
So I'm pretty confused atm - the Elude number seems very different from my past experiences - but the Overload seems consistent to what I saw in the past.
Anyone else notice any changes today in RV? 
solution to this: level bump for Villains at some point to level 50. Those extra 15 slots could prove to help a lot. I can't really think of a way that it could just stick to PvP and not the rest of the game. But that has to be part of the imbalance problem. Through some hami's in there for a little more imbalance and you arrive at where we are today. JMO.
Has anyone checked the Scrappers? I have yet to hit one. 12 misses my first day out with dbl acc.'s in my attacks and no hits at all on a Scrappmeister. Everything ELUDED! At least it would be balanced. But I gotta say, not even a PP in MoG mode got off that much.
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Has anyone checked the Scrappers? I have yet to hit one. 12 misses my first day out with dbl acc.'s in my attacks and no hits at all on a Scrappmeister. At least it would be balanced.
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That would imply you are seeing something OTHER than Regen Scrappers in RV.
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Has anyone checked the Scrappers? I have yet to hit one. 12 misses my first day out with dbl acc.'s in my attacks and no hits at all on a Scrappmeister. Everything ELUDED! At least it would be balanced. But I gotta say, not even a PP in MoG mode got off that much.
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All I can say is 'Endurance Drain'. If you have powers that can do that and you run them out of blues, then you are set.
(Scooby laugh)
it would... why yes it would imply that now wouldn't it!? 
Regen scrappers are nerfed and noone plays them because they suck so bad.
Ignore the man behind the curtain, too.
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Honestly if the dev's don't want to go wity my multiple respawn point idea, then they should probably just have the AV's and a lot of hard hitting mobs show up and clear enough space around the bases so that people can realistically escape.
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NOT to bust your chops but if you think bringing AV's to the bases is a realitstic way of getting you out your sense of reality be skewed.
The minute AV's start popping up every hero is going to flock to them like flies to... well you know what you villains are and smell like. Just for the chance to fight an av...
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Mabye but it would provide cover fire for other villains, which is what they apparently need. I don't mean some pitiful NPC force guarding the base like what's in SC, but the AV with a horde flooding a certain radius around the base if heroes have been camping it for "x" amount of minutes.
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Logged in to check my build some more and to mess around in RV. First I tried to tackle Mako along with about 16 heros and Mechs. We got him down to about 1/7th health and he went into a Super Mako MoG. Absolutely, 100% could not hit him no matter what ANY of us did - and he regen'ed all the way back to full Health. OK we say, lets try again since the recharge on that thing has to be pretty huge. Nope, same thing every time we got him below 25% health. Pretty freaking ridiculous. Finally we all gave up.
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ROFL, now you see how villains feel when they fight regen scrappers 
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Logged in to check my build some more and to mess around in RV. First I tried to tackle Mako along with about 16 heros and Mechs. We got him down to about 1/7th health and he went into a Super Mako MoG. Absolutely, 100% could not hit him no matter what ANY of us did - and he regen'ed all the way back to full Health. OK we say, lets try again since the recharge on that thing has to be pretty huge. Nope, same thing every time we got him below 25% health. Pretty freaking ridiculous. Finally we all gave up.
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ROFL, now you see how villains feel when they fight regen scrappers
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It's not close enough.. Mako needs also to jump around like a mad hare on a mixture of PCP/Amphetamines and Captain Crunch.
Hehe - we were joling about MoG also - UNTIL he regen'ed his full Health while being unhittable.
And this wasn't just the 95% defense cap stuff too - we had an army of people that didn't even land a friggin STREAK BREAKER. Was really impressive! I vote Mako the most bada$$ of the Recluse Lts.
Anyone else snotice any PLAYER defense changes today?
Actually, we'll need a level bump if I7 is to hit live soon (saw the prepatch today). This is because we need to test the Recluse Strike Force. :P
Statesman and Positron both do more than my total health with a single attack. Manticore, conversely, seemed to suck; his purpose seemed to be hitting us with weak area effects so Statesman's incredible one shots could get past the one shot code (and, given I survived a 2500 damage hit from Statesman the first time he tried it, the one shot code seems to be working).
Well, Ive tested Recluses Victory a bunch of times now (only as a hero since I dont have a villain high enough to enter) and I have a few concerns. Im not going to comment on which side is more powerful since all the villains Ive seen there were level 40s buffed to level 50 and Im sure the patron pools and extra enhancement slots will make a big difference in the zone.
My biggest problem with the zone is that now that the signature villains and heroes have been buffed, is that they are now too difficult so I dont think anyone will even bother trying to fight them.. I admit that before the buff signature villains were easily taken down by the heavies and a dozen or so heroes but I do not believe when they buffed the signature villains (and heroes) they took into account other villains attacking at the same time. I foresee one side capturing enough turrets to spawn a signature hero or villain and when everyone gathers to attack the signature character is when the other side moves in, making it impossible to defeat the signature character. I dont think its possible, even with dozens of heroes to take on three of the buffed signature villains and a group of player villains at the same time. I think this will be even worse when villains control the zone, all the villains grouped around the signature heroes will also have to take on things like blaster nukes. On top of that deterrent for anyone taking on the signature characters there is also the fact that they disappear as soon as someone takes over a 5th turret. Before the signature character buff there were several times that a large group of heroes had Mako or another villain with only a sliver of health left when someone took over another turret and he disappeared. No one got XP, influence, or a badge out of it.
The only way I can really think of to fix this problem would be to have only one random signature character spawn when one side captures four turrets instead of having two or three spawn at once. This will make it easier to take on the signature character in addition to all of the player characters attacking. Another great thing would be once the signature is spawned that they stay spawned until the dimensional reversion, that way everyone knows when they will disappear.
Another thing I see is that base camping may become a problem. Right now Ive seen it a lot of camping at the villain base but I have no doubt once there are level 50 villains it will happen at the hero base as well. There seems to be a bug that people shot by drones in the zone were left with almost no health and held instead of just being defeated like normal. Im pretty sure this is just a bug but Ive already seen people take advantage of it and TP Foe anyone within range into a drone.
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IMO the base camping is complete garbage and speaks very lowly of those particular players. That being said, you can't say they aren't testing. Remember CoV beta when stalkers could camp in the hospital? Drones were quickly placed. I would assume something will be done to help with RV base camping to an extent.
By being raging [censored] they are helping to point out a glaring problem before it hits live.
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Good point. I haven't logged in today, but Archon_Voss mentioned that the flying MUs are doing more overwatch for the villain entrance corridor now. I haven't logged in today to see how much a difference it makes, but it sounds like a very good thing.
Baby steps... baby steps...
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My biggest problem with the zone is that now that the signature villains and heroes have been buffed, is that they are now too difficult so I dont think anyone will even bother trying to fight them.. I admit that before the buff signature villains were easily taken down by the heavies and a dozen or so heroes but I do not believe when they buffed the signature villains (and heroes) they took into account other villains attacking at the same time. I foresee one side capturing enough turrets to spawn a signature hero or villain and when everyone gathers to attack the signature character is when the other side moves in, making it impossible to defeat the signature character. I dont think its possible, even with dozens of heroes to take on three of the buffed signature villains and a group of player villains at the same time.
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Yeah, that's what happened the one time I tried to fight Statesman when the hero's actually 'let' us win to spawn them. Some blaster came in and Nova'd and killed just about everybody near Statesman.
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I think this will be even worse when villains control the zone, all the villains grouped around the signature heroes will also have to take on things like blaster nukes.
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That's assuming that can actually happen without heros agreeing to let it happen. 
I serioiusly think the disparity of 'hole filling' the patron pools do vs. the hero pools is going to show on live like nipples through a wet t-shirt and time on live is the water. There was more innuendo in that sentance than originally intended.
The more I play in RV with my EM/SR Stalker and my DM/EA Brute the more apparent how bad it is. I was chased and hit consistantly with Elude on this morning by both a Katana/Regen and some sort of Ill Controller and was unable to lose them and escape. THey could see me at quite a distance and they NEVER failed to hit me. They both fly like me and the scrapper would just hit me with Air Superiority and didn't EVER miss with it. With Elude running. People keep telling me that that's not possible and that I'm 'wrong' but I just don't see how. I double checked to see that Elude actually WAS running after I hit it in a panic after the first hit.
On my Brute with Overload running I got to a Heavy span and had started the process and two Scrappers, a Spines/Regen and Katana/Regen showed up becuase they both saw me leave the base and fly stright up to the upper limit before leaving the base. THey BOTH hit me and interrupted me. I Touch of Fear'd them both long enough to get the Heavy as a pet, thinking I'd then be somewhat of a match for them. Nope. They unfeared and proceded to take me out in a few hits WITH OVERLOAD RUNNING.
BUt, I must be WRONG and that probably didn't ACTUALLY happen, right?
The defenses around the villain base have been significantly bolstered as of today. It used to be just the two drones on either side of the door, then a pair of turrets, a pair of rocket launchers, and finally two more drones at the end.
That setup allowed for flyers to drop right in and start beating on villains in the middle of the "safe zone", it also allowed some superspeeders with very good timing to do the same thing. The turrets and launchers have virtually no effect on a regen or a tank in untstoppable so they could just stand there all day and do whatever they pleased until you either kited or TPed them closer to a drone.
Today there are two more drones right up the middle of the safe zone, two or three perched above the entrance to the base and at least one that hovers overhead to catch the fliers.
Aside from the range boosted TPs out, the safe zone is actually somewhat safe now.
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I found a nice Stalker (Stalkerbot1 I think?) that wanted to test it as well and he proceeded to let me wail on him for a bit.
I had FA(2 slots for ToHit)/Buildup(1 slot for ToHit)/Invince(3 slots for ToHit) and 2 Accs in all of my attacks - pretty accuracy heavy build. Without his Elude I was hitting pretty consistently. When he popped it on I was completely floored. I believe my numbers were at about 18% with buildup - and around 12% without. I added one Large Acc Insp and got it up to about 22%.
#5486727 - Tue May 09 2006 01:37 PM
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Absolutely true. Seen it often during many hours in RV. Best strategy to exploit: elude AT loads up on heavies then uses them with impugnity since none can ever hit their master -- except with the occasional buildup/aim, and that is easily overcome by an aid self or two.
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The more I play in RV with my EM/SR Stalker and my DM/EA Brute the more apparent how bad it is. I was chased and hit consistantly with Elude on this morning by both a Katana/Regen and some sort of Ill Controller and was unable to lose them and escape. THey could see me at quite a distance and they NEVER failed to hit me.
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Totally false. Never seen anything even remotely like this happen after many hours in RV.
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Glad to see i7 downloading on live. Might stop this thread from getting increasingly far-fetched and self-serving.
While there is a tad bit of hyperbole in my post it's basically true. There are a few misses. Some AT's miss occasionally. But do die that quick.
Somebody link to how to record a demo and I'll post them.
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While there is a tad bit of hyperbole in my post it's basically true. There are a few misses. Some AT's miss occasionally. But do die that quick.
Somebody link to how to record a demo and I'll post them.
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/demorecord [filename]
/demostop
The demo recording is saved as a text file in CoHTest/client_demos. The filename can't contain spaces.
We have to have a way to spread people out and keep them from camping the hero or villain base. Honestly if the dev's don't want to go wity my multiple respawn point idea, then they should probably just have the AV's and a lot of hard hitting mobs show up and clear enough space around the bases so that people can realistically escape.
We (LotD) don't have a problem, but the reason other villains can't get organized is because they're toast as soon as they set foot outside the base front door. They've got no place to setup, and the lack of a staging area that is relatively safe (no zone lines like warburg!) is hurting them.