Hades_LotD

[ QUOTE ]
From the latest patch notes...


• Recluse's Victory: Alternative “sally port” exits have been placed in both hero and villain bases, to help alleviate front door camping. Each base has two new doors near the temporal portal on the ground floor. These are connected to 5 doors inside the zone, which will be randomly chosen each time a door is used. The outside doors are not guarded, so players use them their own risk.
In the hero base they appear as manholes, in the villain base they appear as sewer entrances.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have been harping on this for months in the zone PVP forums, and I made a case here in the RV thread. I'm glad to see they were actually able to implement it and I hope they can transfer that to the lower lvl zones as well.

Now we just need prestige for all PVP kills in RV, and then bonus prestige for whichever side controls the zone. With base raids in, this zone could be the king of prestige earning for groups that want PVP and a decent way to earn prestige on a daily basis.

Kudos to the Devs from LotD.

[ QUOTE ]


Part of the reason the buffs are so short is that they *dont* want them to be used in PvP. That is the whole reason for the 15 min. timer according to Positron's earlier comments.

As for PvE you may have a point but I dont think Ive ever been on a single mission that was 2+ hours (well Atta maybe but that's not really high-end). A Task Force sure, but not a single mission.

The cost and strength of the buffs may need adjusting (5% seems ridiculously low), but adjusting the time for pvp concern is the exact opposite of the Devs stated intentions for this device.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless they specifically state that base buffs are not intended for PVP then the case LotD will present will try to establish the need for extended buff timers for high end play in both PVE and PVP. Afterall, there's little point to them in the low end of the game.

[ QUOTE ]
Oy veigh. Even after the costs were adjusted, these Empowerment buffs are a complete waste of time and Salvage. 2% movement buffs and 5% resistance buffs vs. 1 type of damage? That's not even noticeable. Maybe if they affected the entire SG there would be tactical uses for them, but come on, this is for 1 person. The buffs need a massive boost in power to be at all worthwhile.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everything is based on this (time investment = reward).

Simply put, from a PVP VG perspective base enhancements are not anywhere near rewarding enough to justify the time and expense needed to obtain and retain base buffs.

To take over Siren's Call can sometimes take hours, and the same methodology applies to Recluse's Victory. Leaving every 15 minutes to rebuff effectively blows away your entire effort at trying to control the zone, and then you come back to start over at 0.

To make it worth it and to jive with PVP, these base buffs need to be a minimum of 60 minutes but preferably 90 minutes. That way we could cycle team members in and out of the zones while keeping the momentum we have in the zone.

The same thing applies to the high end PVE missions. These things can take 2+ hours, and what good to 15, 30, or 60 minute buffs do you then? Its just not worth the effort.

I'm a firm believer in being honest to the devs in the most respectful manner possible. I believe if a dev puts the hard work and time into creating a new game feature, then they truly intend for that feature to be useful to us. I, along with others on this thread, have provided that feedback.

To accomodate PVP and PVE playstyles at the high end these buffs need to last 90-120 minutes. These buffs really aren't needed for the quicker, easier missions and should be designed for the longer, harder high end missions/PVP goals.

By the way I'd like to go on record as supporting earned prestige for all kills regardless of zone control (say 50 prestige). The side who controls the zone could then get a bonus (up to 150 prestige).

We want the zones to promote and encourage PVP. Look at what happens in Sirens when zone control is impossible or possible with several hours of work, people leave and the zone gets boring. If you want to encourage people to come to the zone and fight, there should be a reward from the start. Then by zone control that reward increases.

Make no mistake that prestige for base raids is going to be a big deal, and a contant PVP outlet for earning prestige (instead of mob bashing) is desireable.

It would also be nice to see prestige earned for all PVP zones (IMHO) because it would provide a way for people of all levels to contribute towards thier base, etc.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So... get vent, roll a corruptor, team with other corrupters and a dominator = win RV. Gotcha.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's pretty much what I'm getting out of this as well. If you aren't a corrupter or dominator don't bother showing up to RV.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just the first thing thats worked. I think there is a high likelyhood that MM's can and will contribute in this zone, we just don't have enough high level MM's that aren't playing other critical characters right now. Brutes can actually do well focusing on destroying turrets, but because the Fury bug in PvP they don't do well against other players in "straight up" combat. Stalkers are the ones that lose some ground. They don't have the team synergy and solo they are more challenging here than in the other zones. This isn't to say they don't have uses or can't be good, but they are countered pretty thoroughly by current common hero builds.

In short the best way I see a VG taking the zone is by having a two teams. One a roving assault team to engage hero groups and the second (or more) is a turret capture team. The assault team will have mostly Cor's and Dom's while the turret works well with more MM's and Brutes with a Thermal Cor or two.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thor is correct. Our testing with MM's and Brutes shows that there most likely role is that of guarding and protecting the turrets that have been taken. The MM's simply can't get from place to place quickly and safely enough to offensive purposes, and the brutes lack range. But for guarding turrets and pushing back close range attacks, both of those AT's would be suitable. Even stalkers might be better off helping MM's and brutes protect turrets.

So I wouldn't say those two AT's are useless, but their role is best suited for guarding and protecting. Anyone who's PVP'd in RV reguarly knows that turret fights are pretty furious, so its not like the people guarding them have a cake job.

[ QUOTE ]
Just an observance of what I've seen in the PvP zones of this game...It's pretty much casual play, mostly favoring whichever side brings in the most characters since the zone is unorganized most of the time. You will have 2-3 groups (on Virtue at least) organized well enough to pop in and take control of the zone, and repel or defeat larger numbers, but often times these are groups that have been playing together for months and use a voicechat program like Teamspeak.

I don't see highly structured SGs/VGs with focused PvP efforts becoming the norm though. As much as I love strategy and coordinating my PvP efforts with a group of my SG mates, the player base seems very casual at best and team coordination among this particular majority would be like herding cats. Not to take anything away from Villain successes in testing, but an organized PvP oriented SG/VG taking on casual players is like sending the New England Patriots into a pee-wee football game, and isn't a fair indication of balance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't care who you are, there comes a point where to survive overwhelming numbers becomes a testament to the skill of the 8 man team (regardless of SG or VG). One good team has proven more than once that its actions and team build/teamwork turned the tide of the zone.

Rystorm (Tribute/Freaks) put it best. An 8 man build that kicks butt in a zone doesn't always translate into an uber arena build. When you build a team spec for a zone, you have to plan for the fact that you are likely to encounter overwhelming odds and your team strategy has to take that into account as well. If 15 people target you at once, you are just as dead as if it was a skilled VG/SG, and your teammates better know how to react.

LotD's team builds are designed for zone combat, whether its an organized VG/SG or 50 random heroes coming at us. Our builds have stood up to 4-1 odds, they've stood up to Tribute + everyone else in Warburg after us, and they're standing up in RV.

The hero cluster is going to go after whatever villain team is busting their chops and taking the zone. That is where the action is, the concentrated fire, the NPC's, etc. If you go into a zone like RV with the wrong build, or a newbie SG/VG member then your success ratio is likely to go down.

PVP success is a PVP zone is all about completing objectives, mitigating damage against vastly superior numbers, teamwork, your team build, and team mates knowing when to concentrate fire, when to buff, when to move, etc.

What our builds have shown is that villains can compete with a combination of a solid build, and teamwork regardless of what other villains in the zone do or fail to do.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly if the dev's don't want to go wity my multiple respawn point idea, then they should probably just have the AV's and a lot of hard hitting mobs show up and clear enough space around the bases so that people can realistically escape.

[/ QUOTE ]

NOT to bust your chops but if you think bringing AV's to the bases is a realitstic way of getting you out your sense of reality be skewed.

The minute AV's start popping up every hero is going to flock to them like flies to... well you know what you villains are and smell like. Just for the chance to fight an av...

[/ QUOTE ]

Mabye but it would provide cover fire for other villains, which is what they apparently need. I don't mean some pitiful NPC force guarding the base like what's in SC, but the AV with a horde flooding a certain radius around the base if heroes have been camping it for "x" amount of minutes.

We have to have a way to spread people out and keep them from camping the hero or villain base. Honestly if the dev's don't want to go wity my multiple respawn point idea, then they should probably just have the AV's and a lot of hard hitting mobs show up and clear enough space around the bases so that people can realistically escape.

We (LotD) don't have a problem, but the reason other villains can't get organized is because they're toast as soon as they set foot outside the base front door. They've got no place to setup, and the lack of a staging area that is relatively safe (no zone lines like warburg!) is hurting them.

[ QUOTE ]


With that said, I FEAR for the state of Hero vs. Villian PvP. Yeah, I know that there is already a glaring level discrepancy in RV that won't go away until I7 is on live for a few months. Not to mention the 5 to 1 ratio of hero's to villians. But there are some serious issues and GLARING disparities that is only going to grow more obvious when things move on. They are such that if something isn't done NOW there will be more serious decisions to be made. Probably mostly negative, only amplified by the time elapsed. And that's the Patron Powers vs. Ancillary Powers.

Currently as it stands the heros' powers can fill huge gaping holes in PvP that terribly destroy the balance between the two sides because there is no like power on the villian side. The lack of those same holes being filled on the Villian side will end with RV being dead. Not to mention what effect it will have on base raids.

For example, giving Blasters the like of Hibernate, Personal Force Field and Force of Nature(Unstoppable-Lite). There is NOTHING similar on the villian side that can do as much to get a villian out of a sticky situation. I've seen all three of these used to GREAT effect in RV in the few days I've been there. The lack of powers with anything near the utility of those powers is a real shame. This kind of protection for a 'squishy' class SHOULD be available one of the villian Squishy AT's as well.

This is on top of their already 30% unresistable damage and the highest burst accuracy in the game with Aim and Build Up both available, another horrible discrepancy between the two sides.

Controllers get Indomitable Will, a powerful status protection that can be used as a panic button to great effect. Yet again, nothing of it's like is available to Villian squishies. None of them get status protection of any kind.

And Power Build Up is basically a 10 second Domination on a 120 second timer that doesn't require previous attacks to make it available. Their holds already last longer than a Dominator without PBU. This would have been a PERFECT addition to either Corr or Dom Patron Powers to even out the playing field. This is also available to defender sets as well, so even more possible AT's with it to add to the disparity.

Then there is Containment. Something that in all previous zones enabled Controllers to even compete in the low levels. But in RV with the avalibility of decent, straight damage powers, it's too much. With only three holds necessary to knock off status protection, NONE of the villian AT's last long in a zone where Break Frees require you to rezone to a store to aquire.

Defenders, as previously statud gain acces to Power Build Up, which is a huge boon and is sorely missing from Patron Powers IMHO. But they can also gain a high damage(for a Def)Melee attack. Something their Corruptor brothers could use as well. Another glaring hole that Patron Powers failed to fill.

Then there is the Focused Accuracy debate. Now having played my lvl 40 SR stalker in RV I know all the Doom sayers were right. It allows Tanks and Scrappers to see you from quite a distance and just plain NEVER miss. And I mean even with Elude or Overload on NEVER miss. The right build, which isn't hard to do, can completely NEGATE, yes NEGATE the entire defensive line. And by Negate I mean that it offers NO decent protection even with the lvl 38 uber-power running against anybody who cares to make a build to PvP. Focused Accuracy or a power like it is a game-breaking discrepancy. The Villian side has no equivilant power to counter Ice tanks or SR with Elude running, or even to-hit debuffs from defenders and controllers. For an ancedotal example: I had my lvl 41 DM/EA brute in RV going toe to toe with a Broad Sword/Regen Scrapper. I was running Overload and he was debuffed by at least one casting of Radiation Infection and my Touch of Fear with one To-Hit Debuff SO. He NAILED ME repeatedly with all of that running. Between FA and Build Up he was able to clean my clock SOLO with all my vaunted defence and help from a */rad Corr somehwere above me. This sort of thing will drive every living soul out of RV IMHO.

And as we have seen in RV on test, most people just wnat to win at any cost and log their hero's. IF this lasts, pretty much the zone will be an Arch-Villian badge hunting zone for the heros like it is currently on test.

If somebody could explain to me how villians are suposed to compete with hero's in RV, I'd love to hear it. But based on the Patron Powers alone it's not looking good IMHO. I mean, the pets villians get aren't even up very often. THey are a true panic button if there ever was one. At least Overload is up ever few min. But 15min? Sheesh. Gimie some Hibernate,PFF,Force of Nature,Indomitable Will, Focused Accuracy or the like instead of a VERY situational pet.

I'm sorry for the rant but the last few days has been about the most un-fun I've experienced since I bought CoH in '04. Sure, I could be like the rest of the jerks and log all my Hero's but what's the point?

Hell, I didn't even touch on all the points I had about the dispairities. THere's more out there. And all of them point to a PvP game that is just gonna be unfun to play as a villian. And if you value a balance, fun PvP experience then something drastically needs to be done. Because all the HO's and Patron Powers will not bring the dispairity any closer to balance with Patron vs. Ancillary powers. Otherwise RV will look much like it does on Test but with less people.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to quote most of what this guy said. Zone combat is our thing, and sadly RV isn't looking all that hot at the moment. For a lot of the reasons quoted above. I mean give me PFF for my corruprtor ok?

The thing that bugs me the most though is the base camping. Zone design needs to be done in a way to prevent this. I already went on record months ago in the PVP forums about mini-spawn points scattered around the zone. That way it spreads people out.

Due to the power inbalances and the base camping, it really makes me wonder if I-7 is worth the wait.

Well if it is a taunt where pets have to be killed first in PVP, then I hope they buff up the pets a little bit. Right now they can die horribly fast.

Supergroup Name:
Lords of the Dead - Primary VG
LotD - Secondary VG

Website (if any): http://www.lotd.org

Leader or Recruiting Officers:

Hades-LotD (Global) - Leader
Thorizdin (Unruly) - AGM
Cassius / Ambient - Officer
Fly / Ransom Collector - Officer
Kenai - Officer
Rakshasa - Officer
Unholy Morals - Officer

Preferred Method of contact:

Go to the LotD website, visit our COV public forum, and apply on the official recruitment thread.

Guild Description:

Motto: Killing With Style

Other Guild Information

Brief History

LotD was founded in 1995 and has played multiple MMORPG's over the years. The guild is a mixture of hardcore and casual gamers who like to have fun, and due to our rigid recruitment process we only retain quality players. The guild has a good track record in PVP, and I invite you to read our guild history.

Recruitment Rundown

Lords of the Dead is a highly competitive guild that focuses on PvP. If you want to make friends with a bunch of great people, and if you are a good player that wants to be a part of a guild that uses advanced tactics and teamwork to excel at PvP, then Lords of the Dead is the right guild for you.

While Lords of the Dead is highly focused on PVP, we also accept members don't want to PVP a majority of their time. These members can contribute to the guild by leading quests, organizing events, helping out with leveling and character development, and participating in a host of other non PVP related activities.

We require that our members be fairly active. You can be away for vacation, etc. without anyone being upset with you but we are looking for people who, while not away for vacation or other events, play a total of 10 or more hours/week so that you can be an active part of our guild events. Attendance to all events is not required, but we usually schedule PvP, PVE, or other events every week where having a good turnout is important.

Voice Chat

Lords of the Dead uses a program called Ventrillo to talk to one another while we play. Ventrillo is a free program that allows us to coordinate attacks and strategy as quickly as speaking. No more trying to type "STOP!" in half a second to save your group. Instead, you can just say it with one press of a button.

We are fairly selective as we are an elite, but not elitist. We give most people a fair chance to prove that they belong in the guild, and that they can prove that they can contribute to the guild. Successful applicants will be dedicated, fun-loving, and willing to apply on our forums and to set up Ventrillo, etc.

[ QUOTE ]
ok, i'm sure someone has brought this up but I have gotten sick of this. This is taking place on Protector but i have reason to believe that this could be happening on other servers. I have played both sides in pvp zones, and i have noticed that many heroes are starting to camp for villains inside their own safe areas. I have noted heroes have managed to worm their way into the villain hospitals and trap other villains inside. Here's how:

In Bloody Bay: Heroes can use any travel and/or invisibility to get inside the villain hospital. Thus they can get into the center (out of range of the drones) and attack any villain coming back to life. Blasters and Defenders with fly can also hang out directly outside and keep using sniper attacks to pin down the unsuspecting villains. In fact, a couple of Energy blasters with fly once pinned me down inside the hospital and prevented me from leaving the zone. I quit out of frustration, but not without yelling at them.

In Siren's Call: Once again, Blasters and Defenders can float above the villain base with fly and pick off villains coming out of the hospital with fly or villains entering the zone and waiting there getting a mission. But many heroes can sneak past the arbiter drones and get into a small nook inside the hospital and take out villains that just died, trapping them within.

In Warburg: Heroes grab an awaken inspiration, and enter the hospital near the villain base, being taken out by an arbiter drone in the process. If this works, they die within the hospital and can awaken in saftey. They can then proceed to camp for villains that have just died.

Now, my feelings about this is that if heroes can camp villains, shouldn't the reverse true? I noticed that hero bases have far better security than villain bases. The hero hospital in bloody bay is much more narrow, thus removing campsites for villains. In Siren's Call, there is a police drone inside the hero hospital. In Warburg, the hero hospital is full of longbow and police drones. Why is it that heroes can get away with this? In my opinion, it's not very heroic to pick off villains that are reviving. Not only that, but it ruins PvP for everyone. Villain camping discourages villains from attending PvP, thus reducing the number for heroes to go after and eventually will make the zones usless, other than getting special temporary powers. I think that the security within Villain safe areas should be increased, to stop this from happening.

Please heroes, stop camping for the villains, pretty soon, you won't have any left to camp for.

[/ QUOTE ]

It needs to be fixed yeah, but then they will just camp outside the safe zone.

Penalties or incentives need to be created to encourage people to spread out across the zone, or to bypass a huge camping force.

[ QUOTE ]
ok, i'm sure someone has brought this up but I have gotten sick of this. This is taking place on Protector but i have reason to believe that this could be happening on other servers. I have played both sides in pvp zones, and i have noticed that many heroes are starting to camp for villains inside their own safe areas. I have noted heroes have managed to worm their way into the villain hospitals and trap other villains inside. Here's how:

In Bloody Bay: Heroes can use any travel and/or invisibility to get inside the villain hospital. Thus they can get into the center (out of range of the drones) and attack any villain coming back to life. Blasters and Defenders with fly can also hang out directly outside and keep using sniper attacks to pin down the unsuspecting villains. In fact, a couple of Energy blasters with fly once pinned me down inside the hospital and prevented me from leaving the zone. I quit out of frustration, but not without yelling at them.

In Siren's Call: Once again, Blasters and Defenders can float above the villain base with fly and pick off villains coming out of the hospital with fly or villains entering the zone and waiting there getting a mission. But many heroes can sneak past the arbiter drones and get into a small nook inside the hospital and take out villains that just died, trapping them within.

In Warburg: Heroes grab an awaken inspiration, and enter the hospital near the villain base, being taken out by an arbiter drone in the process. If this works, they die within the hospital and can awaken in saftey. They can then proceed to camp for villains that have just died.

Now, my feelings about this is that if heroes can camp villains, shouldn't the reverse true? I noticed that hero bases have far better security than villain bases. The hero hospital in bloody bay is much more narrow, thus removing campsites for villains. In Siren's Call, there is a police drone inside the hero hospital. In Warburg, the hero hospital is full of longbow and police drones. Why is it that heroes can get away with this? In my opinion, it's not very heroic to pick off villains that are reviving. Not only that, but it ruins PvP for everyone. Villain camping discourages villains from attending PvP, thus reducing the number for heroes to go after and eventually will make the zones usless, other than getting special temporary powers. I think that the security within Villain safe areas should be increased, to stop this from happening.

Please heroes, stop camping for the villains, pretty soon, you won't have any left to camp for.

[/ QUOTE ]

It needs to be fixed yeah, but then they will just camp outside the safe zone.

Penalties or incentives need to be created to encourage people to spread out across the zone, or to bypass a huge camping force.