Villain "camping" has gone too far
By
26plus6equals1,
Posted on: 2005-11-27 20:26 in Everything about PvP
Yes, it is a problem on a lot of servers.
I have it on good authority that the Developers are looking to correct the problem. So, I would say, tolerate it as much as you can and petition players for doing it whenever it impacts you.
It isnt likely that the petition will have much effect other then acting as a pointy stick in the Devs ribs... "When you gonna fix this?" poke poke poke
I'd agree here. Just wait it out until the devs close off the hospitals. It's bound to happen and when it does, it'll be better for everyone.
I had already sent in an In-Game Petition about this sort of thing (Heroes sniping Villains in the Bloody Bay Hospital) and after a back and forth discussion of me trying to figure out if this was a violation of conduct and therefore called for the unmasking of the hero* (so to speak), it finally ended with a response that they're looking into it and will fix it "Soon."
* = I refused to reveal the identity of the hero who was doing this until I had a clear answer of "Yes, this was a violation." I'm a firm believer of, "If it's a fair tactic, no harm should come of it." To note, I never got an answer on that.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
The problem is going in the other direction as well. The other day in Bloody Bay a stalker attacked me in the Hero Base in Bloody Bay, didn't kill me, got zapped by a drone. He did this 4 times killing me on the forth attempt and he wasn't the only stalker camping the Hero Base. They need to make a safe zone around the hospital in each base where players can't be attacked. Maybe have a shield where the other alignment can't pass through and powers can't penetrate. This camping is getting rediculous, both bases should be off limits to the other side. This needs to be addressed ASAP.
It's not nearly as bad from the hero side. Yes, villains can get into the hero base - but typically attacking a hero inside the hero base results in a quick, arbiter-assisted trip to your base.
In addition, none of the hero bases have a vulnerable respawn point. Any hero has the time to toggle up and enter the 'proper' PvP prepared. Villains can and often are targeted right on their respawn points - just fresh from dying and with no chance to hit any toggles.
It's bad design.
Find it funny that now heroes are complaining about this. Heroes camped the Villains base on Pinnacle until they fixed it with additional arbiter drones.
I agree that base camping is horrible, maybe they will put additional drones around the hero base to keep that from happening.
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ok, i'm sure someone has brought this up but I have gotten sick of this. This is taking place on Protector but i have reason to believe that this could be happening on other servers. I have played both sides in pvp zones, and i have noticed that many heroes are starting to camp for villains inside their own safe areas. I have noted heroes have managed to worm their way into the villain hospitals and trap other villains inside. Here's how:
In Bloody Bay: Heroes can use any travel and/or invisibility to get inside the villain hospital. Thus they can get into the center (out of range of the drones) and attack any villain coming back to life. Blasters and Defenders with fly can also hang out directly outside and keep using sniper attacks to pin down the unsuspecting villains. In fact, a couple of Energy blasters with fly once pinned me down inside the hospital and prevented me from leaving the zone. I quit out of frustration, but not without yelling at them.
In Siren's Call: Once again, Blasters and Defenders can float above the villain base with fly and pick off villains coming out of the hospital with fly or villains entering the zone and waiting there getting a mission. But many heroes can sneak past the arbiter drones and get into a small nook inside the hospital and take out villains that just died, trapping them within.
In Warburg: Heroes grab an awaken inspiration, and enter the hospital near the villain base, being taken out by an arbiter drone in the process. If this works, they die within the hospital and can awaken in saftey. They can then proceed to camp for villains that have just died.
Now, my feelings about this is that if heroes can camp villains, shouldn't the reverse true? I noticed that hero bases have far better security than villain bases. The hero hospital in bloody bay is much more narrow, thus removing campsites for villains. In Siren's Call, there is a police drone inside the hero hospital. In Warburg, the hero hospital is full of longbow and police drones. Why is it that heroes can get away with this? In my opinion, it's not very heroic to pick off villains that are reviving. Not only that, but it ruins PvP for everyone. Villain camping discourages villains from attending PvP, thus reducing the number for heroes to go after and eventually will make the zones usless, other than getting special temporary powers. I think that the security within Villain safe areas should be increased, to stop this from happening.
Please heroes, stop camping for the villains, pretty soon, you won't have any left to camp for.
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It needs to be fixed yeah, but then they will just camp outside the safe zone.
Penalties or incentives need to be created to encourage people to spread out across the zone, or to bypass a huge camping force.
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ok, i'm sure someone has brought this up but I have gotten sick of this. This is taking place on Protector but i have reason to believe that this could be happening on other servers. I have played both sides in pvp zones, and i have noticed that many heroes are starting to camp for villains inside their own safe areas. I have noted heroes have managed to worm their way into the villain hospitals and trap other villains inside. Here's how:
In Bloody Bay: Heroes can use any travel and/or invisibility to get inside the villain hospital. Thus they can get into the center (out of range of the drones) and attack any villain coming back to life. Blasters and Defenders with fly can also hang out directly outside and keep using sniper attacks to pin down the unsuspecting villains. In fact, a couple of Energy blasters with fly once pinned me down inside the hospital and prevented me from leaving the zone. I quit out of frustration, but not without yelling at them.
In Siren's Call: Once again, Blasters and Defenders can float above the villain base with fly and pick off villains coming out of the hospital with fly or villains entering the zone and waiting there getting a mission. But many heroes can sneak past the arbiter drones and get into a small nook inside the hospital and take out villains that just died, trapping them within.
In Warburg: Heroes grab an awaken inspiration, and enter the hospital near the villain base, being taken out by an arbiter drone in the process. If this works, they die within the hospital and can awaken in saftey. They can then proceed to camp for villains that have just died.
Now, my feelings about this is that if heroes can camp villains, shouldn't the reverse true? I noticed that hero bases have far better security than villain bases. The hero hospital in bloody bay is much more narrow, thus removing campsites for villains. In Siren's Call, there is a police drone inside the hero hospital. In Warburg, the hero hospital is full of longbow and police drones. Why is it that heroes can get away with this? In my opinion, it's not very heroic to pick off villains that are reviving. Not only that, but it ruins PvP for everyone. Villain camping discourages villains from attending PvP, thus reducing the number for heroes to go after and eventually will make the zones usless, other than getting special temporary powers. I think that the security within Villain safe areas should be increased, to stop this from happening.
Please heroes, stop camping for the villains, pretty soon, you won't have any left to camp for.
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It needs to be fixed yeah, but then they will just camp outside the safe zone.
Penalties or incentives need to be created to encourage people to spread out across the zone, or to bypass a huge camping force.
I said this would happen. 
Once they removed drone debt, there was no longer any reason for anyone to fear camping the enemy spawn. Used to be only level 50s would consistantly risk hospital camping but now everyone does it.
Base camping is fun, I've done it as a villain in Bloody Bay, but I never enter the hospital, nor would I ever try to enter because there are about police drones that can kill me in like 2 seconds that I can't avoid because there is only one way in and to get through the door you hit the drones, however in Bloody Bay the way the villain hospital is situated you can easily break in (or kill the drones (come on, they can hold you and quickly drain your life w/o stopping like the police drones can)
I've seen them in action against heroes and 9/10 if there are 2 or more heroes (as there are usually about 10 heroes) they kill the arbiter drone.
Also look how small the villain base is, and if you count up all of the Arachnos there are only about 30 or so compared to the more than 100 that are inside the hero base alone (not counting on the shores or out back) What happened to the Crab Spiders and Blood Widows that used to guard the villain base in Bloody Bay? (not that they'd even attack unless you where a foot a away from them...)
Edit: When did they remove drone debt? I was killed by a drone twice at the hero base last week and got a crapload of debt, and that actuallly effects my leveling 
...
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...Also look how small the villain base is, and if you count up all of the Arachnos there are only about 30 or so compared to the more than 100 that are inside the hero base alone (not counting on the shores or out back)
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Um... maybe it's an application of Stateman's maxim that one character should be able to handle three equal-level mobs (in this case, 3 villains = 10 heroes).
Go go villains!
It is a problem every where. The best solution is make all base areas unraidable period! Some how and some where if bases are combat zones then someone will get griefed. Also people don't like hunting. People don't want to have to be on the move and look out for heroes or villians. They want to go to the nest so to speak and do combat there. It is very sad. We have a whole zone to fight in and people only fight in less then a 10th of it.
Hospital camping is not a Hero or Villain-only activity. Both sides do it.
The fix is quite simple: improve drone Perception. They're there for a reason, and it isn't so that yabos with decent Stealth can sneak by for a quick gank of some poor sod that just got mediported.
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The fix is quite simple: improve drone Perception. They're there for a reason, and it isn't so that yabos with decent Stealth can sneak by for a quick gank of some poor sod that just got mediported.
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A way for Drones to destroy Decoys from the Illusion power set should be looked at as well.
As it stands, a Cont can just send a swarm of Decoys in to tie the Drones up in firing at invincible targets. Once the Drones are busy doing that, practically anyone can waltz right in.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
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It needs to be fixed yeah, but then they will just camp outside the safe zone.
[/ QUOTE ]that'd be fine, though.
the problem isn't people ganging up on people like a pack of blood-thirsty sharks, it's that people are getting beat down before they even have a chance.
people should be able to get their toggles up, rest, or leave the zone in their base without being molested. once they leave their base, they're free game. I've gotten jumped by heroes springing a trap on me and I've sprung plenty of heroes in the wilds of Siren's Call.
but getting nailed while trying to leave the zone or being held hostage in your own base by heroes camping the front are of the hospital is just ridiculous
Players will always find a way around drones, drones suffer from having to go through the game mechanic. They're super-deadly and auto-hit, but they still have to acquire a target and are limited by their fire rate, range, position, etc.
You can teleport past them to a safe area and never be threatened by them. You can phantom-army them. You can even throw MM pets at them.
So based on all of this, more drones or better drones isn't the solution. They will *always* be bypassed, and each additional special-case applied to them will just make the whole situation more confusing and harder for a casual player to get to grips with.
The solution:
A timer of invincibility after you respawn from hospital - exactly like when you enter the zone.
The siren's call bounty will never get this, because dying means you are invalidated as a bounty target. The bases remain raidable from the perspective of people who are hunting for such a target, and yet - most importantly - someone who does want to leave the zone can just stroll out past the campers, probably with time to wave, and get to the helicopter without any problems.
Zoning time is not an issue - if you're killed in the same zone then you have no zoning time. If you're killed in a different zone (i.e. in a mission) then you have the 30-second zone-in timer anyway.
Enough with the high-tech, only-works-when-facing-south-on-a-tuesday solutions. This needs a brute-force, no-nonsense, easy-to-understand solution.
I have a lv 10 toon and team with a lvl 20 friend. When we do my missions, he exemps down and sk's me when we do his. He never exemps down to my lvl and then do one of his lvl 20 missions. Why? Instant death and debt.
Camping is fun so it shouldn't be obliterated. Instead, they should put some real heavy hitters in these questionable areas. If I noticed a group of heroes camping in the villain hospital, I would do everything possible to make them argo a group that they cannot kill. I would broadcast it, buff the bosses, throw my holds... anything except the killing blow. That way they would get debt and I would laugh an evil laugh. Others would read my broadcast and do the same. It would be a glorious party of evil. 
If the offender somehow beat the overlevelled mobs, the villains/heores teaming up on them and myself- hats off to them. They are truly uber and would wipe the floor with me in a fair fight anyway.
I'm not a big fan of camping someone's base, but often it becomes necessary to collect bounty. Playing on my stalker, i frequently get a bounty target that will not come out of the area of the drones. Or someone that comes out, then runs back in as soon as they take any damage. If these people were totally impervious to harm, it would make the pvp there much less lucrative.
I really don't mind when heroes camp the villain base in Siren's. A couple stalkers can easily clear them out of that nook in the hospital. Much easier getting bounty that way than running around looking for them in the zone.
www.battlewraith.deviantart.com
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I'm not a big fan of camping someone's base, but often it becomes necessary to collect bounty. Playing on my stalker, i frequently get a bounty target that will not come out of the area of the drones. Or someone that comes out, then runs back in as soon as they take any damage. If these people were totally impervious to harm, it would make the pvp there much less lucrative.
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This perfectly illustrates why I said a long time ago that PvP should not be tied to any tangible reward other than to be able to say that you won.
Giving a reward for the beat down encourages bad behavior by those too motivated by gain to see that they are being total a$$e$ with their camping and griefing.
Take away bounty and much of the griefing goes away, too.
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Giving a reward for the beat down encourages bad behavior by those too motivated by gain to see that they are being total a$$e$ with their camping and griefing.
Take away bounty and much of the griefing goes away, too.
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I disagree.
As it stands, Bounty is only collectable on someone who has not been defeated for a set period of time. If you hit somebody who's just come out of the Hospital, you get nothing. This completely invalidates the notion of racking up large quantities of Bounty by just killing players coming out of the Hospital.
And as for griefing... it depends on what definition you're using. Repeatedly hitting the same person over and over and over? No incentive to do so as you'll probably only get Bounty for the first kill and none of the rest. Plus after you get your Most Wanted target, it changes to another player.
What this goes to is that there are incentives to being just AFK in the safe zone and doing nothing at all. People want the badges for being in the PvP Zone for X amount of time, but they don't want to PvP.
In situations like this, if I'm given a target that refuses to leave the safe zone, I'll ask them to either zone out and back in to clear my target, or just come out to fight real quick.
I would ask that ALL players who intend on just sitting around the Hospital to turn on the options to see opposition chat and grant ALL requests for zoning/target clearing.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Uh. One little detail. I don't need any incentives to kill any target that moves. I'm an evil villain remember?
If it can be targeted and killed I will try. Bounty and rep are merely byproducts of my maniacal mayhem.
Now this I didn't know. Boy am I glad I dont do PVP. Seriously though any Hero or Villian (yes villian) that sinks this low in sniping people who can't fight back because they're to busy reviving is a coward and deserves NO reward for doing such cowardly acts. Let the poor guy get back on his feet so he/she can grant you a proper fight.
I mean come on! I may not play the new zones but the people who really do this you need to show some backbone instead of being the little cowards that you are and picking people off when they can't fight back. This just prompts me to stay out of the PVP zones entirely...not even to explore. They are dead zones to me now
I love this subject. Is a Bengal Tiger a coward? He attacks from the rear every time. Are predators in the wild cowards?
They all minimize their risk and maximize their kill potential. This is natural for animals and men hunting. Yes I admitted my villain is an animal. heh. Maniacal serial killer actually.
You are still trying to apply heroic morality to a villain.
We are called villains for a reason.
dats my 2 cents
ok, i'm sure someone has brought this up but I have gotten sick of this. This is taking place on Protector but i have reason to believe that this could be happening on other servers. I have played both sides in pvp zones, and i have noticed that many heroes are starting to camp for villains inside their own safe areas. I have noted heroes have managed to worm their way into the villain hospitals and trap other villains inside. Here's how:
In Bloody Bay: Heroes can use any travel and/or invisibility to get inside the villain hospital. Thus they can get into the center (out of range of the drones) and attack any villain coming back to life. Blasters and Defenders with fly can also hang out directly outside and keep using sniper attacks to pin down the unsuspecting villains. In fact, a couple of Energy blasters with fly once pinned me down inside the hospital and prevented me from leaving the zone. I quit out of frustration, but not without yelling at them.
In Siren's Call: Once again, Blasters and Defenders can float above the villain base with fly and pick off villains coming out of the hospital with fly or villains entering the zone and waiting there getting a mission. But many heroes can sneak past the arbiter drones and get into a small nook inside the hospital and take out villains that just died, trapping them within.
In Warburg: Heroes grab an awaken inspiration, and enter the hospital near the villain base, being taken out by an arbiter drone in the process. If this works, they die within the hospital and can awaken in saftey. They can then proceed to camp for villains that have just died.
Now, my feelings about this is that if heroes can camp villains, shouldn't the reverse true? I noticed that hero bases have far better security than villain bases. The hero hospital in bloody bay is much more narrow, thus removing campsites for villains. In Siren's Call, there is a police drone inside the hero hospital. In Warburg, the hero hospital is full of longbow and police drones. Why is it that heroes can get away with this? In my opinion, it's not very heroic to pick off villains that are reviving. Not only that, but it ruins PvP for everyone. Villain camping discourages villains from attending PvP, thus reducing the number for heroes to go after and eventually will make the zones usless, other than getting special temporary powers. I think that the security within Villain safe areas should be increased, to stop this from happening.
Please heroes, stop camping for the villains, pretty soon, you won't have any left to camp for.
Casual hero since 2004
Citizen of Protector
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@Zork Nemesis