Villain "camping" has gone too far
By
26plus6equals1,
Posted on: 2005-11-27 20:26 in Everything about PvP
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Anyone who's played PvP here in any serious capacity can suggest dozens of ways to restructure the spawn points to virtually eliminate camping. That's the solution, not constant GM supervision.
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Oh, I agree. My suggestions:
[*] Re-institute Drone-given Debt.[*] Put a Teleport lock-out on all Hospitals in PvP zones, including lobbies thereto.[*] Put a 100-yard-radius Teleport Lockout centered on the zone exit(s).[*] Place clearly-labelled paths betweenthe hospital and the corresponding exit, which is itself subject to a Teleport exclusion.[*] Place a 100-yard-radius autohit supermax-distance Repulsion field, magnitude 10 (to heck withthis silly 1, 2, & 3 crap), centered on the zone exit.[*] Place similar repulsion fields along the path from exit to hospital, and over all entrances to the hospital.[*] Give all drones an un-beatable perception for their own selves, so that stealthing past them is simply IMPOSSIBLE. Use them to create a broad enough "no-go zone" around the Hospital, Exit, and path between, that noone can use Snipe, nor knockback effects, against anyone in the teleport-exclusion areas.[*] Give double bounty for defeating an enemy inside your own base.[*] Change where you go, if you're nailed by a Police/Arbiter drone. Instead of going back to your OWN hospital, you get stuck in a prison which you have to break out of, and which is an absolute CAST IRON P-I-T-A to escape from (think "an ocean of purple" ...). Die in there, get thrown back into your cell; do not pass go, do not collect $100.
Poof. Problem mostly solved.
Or....
Put a no-PvP timer on when you respawn in the hospital. somewhere in the 10-30 seconds range.
Just like when you zone in.
Make this apply only to hospital-spawns, so combat-rezzes are still possible.
No zone changes needed, bounties can still be got inside bases, but if you want to leave the zone then there is no-one who can stop you.
It doesn't reqire any redesign of geometry, it doesn't require any rework of powers, it doesn't rely on drones - that can be outsmarted. You can't outsmart a timer, you can only wait it out.
And if you're still in the zone when the timer expires, then you're obviously still keen on PvP. Of course, you may well have decided to leave the safe area, toggle up, maybe prep the ground they're standing on which is about to kick in any second now.... 2.... 1.... game on!
Simple and effective, and involves the least amount of change to the zone itself. What's not to like?
Mine would include:
* Towers stretching up from the bases with turret spawns. Ideally these should 1) see through any possible combination of stealth, at long range (essentially use the sniper code), 2) use a combination of obnoxiously long plink DoT and web grenades, 3) be on a quick respawn timer. These towers should provide enough overwatch for the base to eliminate hoversniping blasters and telestriking stalkers, seriously disrupt flybys over the spawn points, and prevent the easy use of teleport foe. Essentially, any member of the opposing faction in LOS to the spawn point should be taking plink DoT from these turrets at all times, and get hit with immob/-Fly if they don't get the hint and close in further.
Generally speaking, I'm in favor of the idea that the hospitals should be totally protected, but the rest of the base should be merely very well protected. I would make drones see through stealth, continue to give no debt, and be used sparingly inside the hospital itself to make that area totally secure; but the rest of the base should have defenses of steadily increasing difficulty... and those DO give debt. So if you want to attack the base, it's possible to do so, but risky; the drones then exist as a "bad gamer, this area is *off limits*" marker.
A teleport foe suppressor inside the hospital (so it can't be used coming or going) would probably be nice as well.
@Mindshadow
As an additional amusement, you could randomly pick someone from the other faction who's inside the safe zone every, say, 5 minutes and send an ambush after them. And I don't mean a little 3 bored minions ambush. I mean a death squad (anyone who's gotten an oversized ambush in CoX knows what I mean).
The mental image of a stalker fleeing from the three very irritated Longbow Wardens and their dozen or so Eagle backups should bring a warm feeling to anyone's heart.
@Mindshadow
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The mental image of a stalker fleeing from the three very irritated Longbow Wardens and their dozen or so Eagle backups should bring a warm feeling to anyone's heart.
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But as they run by you with their mob stalker AS's you.
1) Stalkers are mammals.
2) Stalkers like to fight.
3) The purpose of Stalkers is to flip out and assassinate people.
@Mindshadow
I see lots of unbalanced suggestions bent on revenge. Or as the media puts it nowadays "closure", "justice" lol we all know its just the revenging side of us that never understood what "sticks and stones" meant.
I think if TP Foe had a line of sight limitation, it couldn't be exploited quite the way it is now. that may even stop the cheaters TP'ing you into a room that has no exit, like is very common at the hero security gates. Yeah yeah so the drones don't see you, its not like they have sight any better than a streetlamp twilight switch.
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I think if TP Foe had a line of sight limitation, it couldn't be exploited quite the way it is now. that may even stop the cheaters TP'ing you into a room that has no exit, like is very common at the hero security gates. Yeah yeah so the drones don't see you, its not like they have sight any better than a streetlamp twilight switch.
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Not every unpopular tactic is an exploit! This is the MMO equivalent of calling everyone who disagrees with you a Naz-- er, 5th Columnist!
@Mindshadow
Cryptic wanted PvP, Cryptic GOT PvP....griefers, campers, jerks and all.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
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"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
They will fix it. Give them a break.
And by the way, the pendulum swings both ways, the heroes get nailed just as much. At least on Guardian.
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They will fix it. Give them a break.
And by the way, the pendulum swings both ways, the heroes get nailed just as much. At least on Guardian.
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That's as may be, and I condemn ANYone on EITHER side who behaves in such contemptible ways.
However, MY villains don' camp the enemy hospital. I simply won't come that close to the spawn sites. In BB, my characters HAVE fouht their way through the NPC threats, to enter the otuermost perimeter of the base. But as soon as I get near the areas covered by police drones? I stop advancing. That area is protected in that manner for a reason, and I don't care to ignore that reason.
Similarly, I don't have a problem with heroes attackin the turrets and Wolf Spiders (etc) in the area, penetrating the outer perimeter of the base - it's when they are fully INSIDE the gates, in range to attack people at the spawn points, that it's a problem.
In SC, I've never even SEEN the hero base. The villain base, though - if you're in a position to attack someone in the hospital, or directly in the small space between there and the helicopter, youre in a place you should not be attacking from. Wanna sit and watch? Fine, go for it. If you attack, though, you're spawn camping.
well admittedly after a stalker jumped into the hero base and ganked my blaster, simply my sg taught the villians a lesson. Tread on our ground we tread on yours. This occured in sirens call by the way. So after this incursion myself and a sg mate went in and camped the hospital on the villian side. Now mind you if we killed you once we offered you free passage out of the hospital if you so chose to take it. Because though we were sending a message, we are also heros and not completely without honor. Most appreciated the free pass out, some wanted to challnge our foothold and paid the price for it. After about 30 or so minutes we departed making it very clear to all present that if you tred into the hero base expect the same in return. And peace reigned for awhile after. Adding drones etc doesn't resolve the issue, nor does repeatedly beating a defensless trapped target. Sending a message that crossing certain lines may result in retribution will hopefully slowly put a end to the entering of each others bases. Lets face it some people just come in to take a peek. And yes they are warned it is true, but a certain level of courtesy needs to be displayed by all of us players, and there comes a time where we must find ways to effectively police our own actions. In my above example as I said quite clearly any who did get defeated once by us were very openly and politely offered passage out of teh hsopital area. The situation of why we were there was politely explained and in the end all present seem to understand the point we were trying to make except for one particularily whiny fellow who in fact dispite his cries and whines we did not even kill him once. Mainly due to the fact we didn't want his pouting to get any worse then it already was.
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well admittedly after a stalker jumped into the hero base and ganked my blaster, simply my sg taught the villians a lesson. Tread on our ground we tread on yours. This occured in sirens call by the way. So after this incursion myself and a sg mate went in and camped the hospital on the villian side.
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Two wrongs do not make a right.
The actions of that one, single villain did NOT entitle you to be a$$holes to EVERY villain in the zone.
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Now mind you if we killed you once we offered you free passage out of the hospital if you so chose to take it. Because though we were sending a message, we are also heros and not completely without honor.
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You wer in the hospital - thus, you were UTTERLY without honor.
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Lets face it some people just come in to take a peek.
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Thos people,however, don't ATTACK while they are looking. If they do attack, they weren't there JUST to take a look around.
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The situation of why we were there was politely explained and in the end all present seem to understand the point we were trying to make except for one particularily whiny fellow who in fact dispite his cries and whines we did not even kill him once. Mainly due to the fact we didn't want his pouting to get any worse then it already was.
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I'd've /petitioned any so-called "heroes" involved, on principle alone. There is NO excuse for invading a hospital. NONE.
Well put Pax_Arcana.
Two wrongs don't make a right, so very true. How is invading the other side's base 'teaching them a lesson'? All you did was drop down to their level making yourselves no better than the suicide stalker that got you in the first place.
If you had "honour" you would have been the bigger man and moved on.
>A few well placed Anti personal Turrets on Hero side
>A new type of Arachnos Drone, Less firepower better perception (They are based on rikti tech)
>Captured Overseers from the Shard
> The zones say [Hero only or Villain only] make the hospital doors that way.
>Seal the Villain base hospital with plexiglass or Chainlink fence
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
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> The zones say [Hero only or Villain only] make the hospital doors that way.
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Villain hospitals tend not to have actual DOORS, is the problem. No lobby, either. They're relatively open-air affairs, with just door-HOLES to go through. In BB and SC, anyway.
Heck, the BB villain hospitql used to be LITERALLY "open air" - no walls, no roof, clear view of the sky (filled with hovering heroes) all around.
Pax, I believe thats why he said seal the villians base hospital with plexi or chain link fence.
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ok, i'm sure someone has brought this up but I have gotten sick of this. This is taking place on Protector but i have reason to believe that this could be happening on other servers. I have played both sides in pvp zones, and i have noticed that many heroes are starting to camp for villains inside their own safe areas. I have noted heroes have managed to worm their way into the villain hospitals and trap other villains inside. Here's how:
In Bloody Bay: Heroes can use any travel and/or invisibility to get inside the villain hospital. Thus they can get into the center (out of range of the drones) and attack any villain coming back to life. Blasters and Defenders with fly can also hang out directly outside and keep using sniper attacks to pin down the unsuspecting villains. In fact, a couple of Energy blasters with fly once pinned me down inside the hospital and prevented me from leaving the zone. I quit out of frustration, but not without yelling at them.
In Siren's Call: Once again, Blasters and Defenders can float above the villain base with fly and pick off villains coming out of the hospital with fly or villains entering the zone and waiting there getting a mission. But many heroes can sneak past the arbiter drones and get into a small nook inside the hospital and take out villains that just died, trapping them within.
In Warburg: Heroes grab an awaken inspiration, and enter the hospital near the villain base, being taken out by an arbiter drone in the process. If this works, they die within the hospital and can awaken in saftey. They can then proceed to camp for villains that have just died.
Now, my feelings about this is that if heroes can camp villains, shouldn't the reverse true? I noticed that hero bases have far better security than villain bases. The hero hospital in bloody bay is much more narrow, thus removing campsites for villains. In Siren's Call, there is a police drone inside the hero hospital. In Warburg, the hero hospital is full of longbow and police drones. Why is it that heroes can get away with this? In my opinion, it's not very heroic to pick off villains that are reviving. Not only that, but it ruins PvP for everyone. Villain camping discourages villains from attending PvP, thus reducing the number for heroes to go after and eventually will make the zones usless, other than getting special temporary powers. I think that the security within Villain safe areas should be increased, to stop this from happening.
Please heroes, stop camping for the villains, pretty soon, you won't have any left to camp for.
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It needs to be fixed yeah, but then they will just camp outside the safe zone.
Penalties or incentives need to be created to encourage people to spread out across the zone, or to bypass a huge camping force.
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While I am in total agreement with complete "Safe Zones" before I leave the safe zone my [censored] is ready for battle , you shouldnt expect to walk out of a safe zone and still be safe , what would the point of that be? The camping is a cheap tactic used by a bunch of geeks , the same geeks that TP foe into drones instead of tping to them and fighting you. Just hang tight , the devs are on BOTH problems ATM 
UFC Undisputed PS3 Camp Ground Zero
No thread like this will be complete without screenshots. I bring to you pictures from a recent 'fight night' in Siren's Call on Freedom server. Pictures say a thoudsand words right?
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...0-23-13-51.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...0-23-13-47.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...0-23-13-44.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...0-23-13-40.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...0-23-13-37.jpg
Notice the Illusion Controller's pets. The drones kept shooting at them which allowed the heroes to waltz around as they pleased. My Dom was largely useless against the Stormies cause they were all popping break frees constantly. Was just a big ol mess.
Yeah I was there that night on freedom and let me say the whole Phantom Army thing not being killed by drones sucks. I just go with the whole Siren's Call Base sucks for villains since its suppossed to be a trap set up by Statesman at least thats what the civilians tell me in Nerva when I click on them.
An Energy Stalker with TP foe can camp the Hero hospital, umm experience here, and tp people OUT OF THE HOSPITAL, Critical hit with a stun, and AS to kill. Every single time. And that is correct, I have been TP'd from the lobby to outside and ganked. The stalker just needs to target from a distance, then sit on the ledge BELOW the wall outside the hospital and repeat gank. No difference at all. You have to exit the hospital through the doors, and you can be targeted while zoning in, rinse, repeat. Heck, to cash out, you have to talk to a guy standing in the open, same scenario happened last night, with all of the window up on my screen, TP'd, ganked. What a blast. 
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ok, i'm sure someone has brought this up but I have gotten sick of this. This is taking place on Protector but i have reason to believe that this could be happening on other servers. I have played both sides in pvp zones, and i have noticed that many heroes are starting to camp for villains inside their own safe areas. I have noted heroes have managed to worm their way into the villain hospitals and trap other villains inside. Here's how:
In Siren's Call: Once again, Blasters and Defenders can float above the villain base with fly and pick off villains coming out of the hospital with fly or villains entering the zone and waiting there getting a mission. But many heroes can sneak past the arbiter drones and get into a small nook inside the hospital and take out villains that just died, trapping them within.
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On protector there is a flying scrapper with teleport foe and tactis/ir gogs to see through inviso (brilliant build BTW). Real annoyance that caps the villian base by flying directly over it. His range on TP foe is far enough so that as soon as you come out of the hospital (still in base) he TP's you, hits you with a spine attck so no hover works then drops you. Repeat until dead. He camps to make sure you don't actually get OUT of the base.
Ruined a PvP night my SG took a week to get together. We asked the team to stop ganking us with their PvP exploit builds but to no avail.
Suggestion, put arbiter drones higher over the villian base so the heroes can't camp it so much.
Camping fix coming soon to a server near you!
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Now Testing in the Training Room - 12/13/05
COMBINED NOTES
City Zones:
* Bloody Bay, Siren's Call, Warburg: When players in a PVP zone are revived at the hospital, they will be immune to PVP for 30 seconds.
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Kam
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http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...0-23-13-51.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...0-23-13-47.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...0-23-13-44.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...0-23-13-40.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...0-23-13-37.jpg
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oh yeah, looks like we totally pwned you villains.
Just kidding. Like most other CoH players, I play a hero , not a scumbag. Funny thing is, when the stalker jumps over the helipad in my "safe" zone, ports me and nukes me, I don't mind too much -- I get a kick out of it, he's being very "villainous". I guess the heroes are confused about what dignity and honor really mean. 
Edit:
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Now Testing in the Training Room - 12/13/05
COMBINED NOTES
City Zones:
* Bloody Bay, Siren's Call, Warburg: When players in a PVP zone are revived at the hospital, they will be immune to PVP for 30 seconds.
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You gotta wonder if they're going, "We really should have anticipated this."
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I'm just frustrated and want punishments doled out for the griefers.
Those type of players, however it can be determined, should be punished. It is harassment and in violation of the terms of agreement they agreed to upon purchasing this game.
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I couldn't agree more, and that very issue is the thing that has made me consider quiting this game.
There is no accountability, no punishment.
They are BREAKING THE RULES that they agree to, everytime they enter the game. You can't twist that, especially when the exploiting and griefing in combined with wantan and flagrant verbal and graphic harrasement.
I have written down the name of every player I have seen do this, and if they are not dealt with... then this is not the kind of game I want to support.
I'm not calling on every account to be banned... but I at least want to know that they have been talked to directly by a GM and warned that further abuse will cause them to lose their account.
It's not like it's hard for them to know if this is going on... there are only as many, say, Siren's Calls as there are servers. As well, I'm sure each server keeps a log of whats going on in these zones.
Hell, if not, then I'm going to start taking pictures and video of this happening, and make sure that the devs get this if it will help at all.
In real life this kind of behavior would NOT be tolerated (at least in most civilized and governed countries).
We are just too used to this, yes, criminal behavior in these games. Well, we SHOULDN'T be used to it.
Honestly, it makes me sick.
I just hope that NCsoft Cryptic will stand by their User Agreement policy and deal with these people appropriately.
Yes, fix the game so this kind of thing can't happen (or happen as often). But you need to lay down the law so that people won't WANT to do this sort of thing, or feel that they can do it with impunity.