Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Shields
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:02 in Developers' Corner
One thing I've not seen, or seen much of is that people are forgetting not every prim/sec is tailor made for everyone. You will have plenty of people who see elec armor, see the holes, see how to fill them with pool powers and are happy with the set.
Others see this holes as too big to fill with pool powers or that you are pigeon holed into taking those powers and dislike it.
Obviously, your personal playstyle or ability to adapt to another playstyle is going to influance whether or not elec armour is for you.
I currently run a stone/stone brute. The attacks have great damage and the armor is solid, however, my attacks are among the most resisted damage type (smashing) and even with swift, I cannot move as fast as my team mates when rooted. Not to mention that I must take off my status protection when I travel wven with TP (unless I want to plumet as soon as I port).
Personally, I've never taken the medicine pool for any of my chars, nor acrobatics. I love the way elec looks, however, I feel rather "squishy" when compared to my stone brute (I had the same issue with Fire Armor).
Either I will adjust my playstyle and power picks (maybe I'll love acro and medicine, not sure stamina will be a requirement with the end management Elec offers) or I'll pick another armor. End of story.
Elec being on test is for the working out of possible bugs. Devs will change (if they deem it needed) well after it's been on live and have a much massive pool of data.
I would suggest to many complainers to like it how it is or pick another secondary. It's that simple.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lack of KB protection is -not-, I repeat NOT a major issue in a set with this much utility.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. The point I keep making is that it's lack of knockback protection AND lack of immobilization protection AND lack of a self heal. I can cover for any one of those easily enough.
[/ QUOTE ]
If I saw half as much complaints/suggestions regarding a self-heal, I'd agree with you. It seems, however, that 95% of the [censored] in this forum is over KB/Immob, to which I can only say 'get over it, and pick up SJ like everyone else that doesn't have KB/Immob Prot has to do if they want it.' ...and this is coming from someone who absolutely, positively HATES superjump as a travel power.
Now, for the self-heal argument. I would be all for ELA having a self-heal somewhere. Hell, I'd gladly give up Conserve Power for it (Conserve stinks, anyway...the duration:recharge ratio is just too skewed)...but I just don't see the justification for this much complaining about KB/Immob. There a ton of powersets available in this game, and only a scant handful offer those protections...
It's a tradeoff. The fact that ELA brutes can viably exist without having to spend 3 pool powers getting Stamina is the trade for having to spend 1-3 pool powers to prevent KB and/or Immob.
[ QUOTE ]
Some people see a lack of a heal as a weakness, yet not one single person would claim that Energy Armor or Super Reflexes is underperforming and they don't have heals or dull pain either. A heal is a perk, not a requirement at all. Knockback and immobilisation is the only weakness Electrical Armor suffers from and it can be fixed with a single powerpool if you choose to take it. Frankly though I've taken my fire tanker from 1 to 26 without any knockback protection and while it might be annoying when it happens its rarely killed me and its a limitation I choose to accept but will eventually plug with acrobatics anyway since SJ was always intended for the character. If people are concerned about knockback you can also consider getting hover which leads into the flight travelpower. So don't claim you're being pidgeon holed into SJ because for starters a character works fine without KB resistance and secondly you have at least two powerpools which over protection from it.
[/ QUOTE ]
A) A Tank is not a Brute. While a Tank can take getting KB some it bites into a Brute's Fury Building. Anyway, what fire tank doesn't have Acrobatics at 20 or 22? /bogglesTheMind KB may not kill you but will interfere with you keeping aggro, which means you aren't doing your job.
B) Um...I'll complain right here and now LOUDLY about SR not having a heal. Doggone inconvenient that. One Very Long recharge heal would have me in ecstasy. I'm sure the same is true with the EA folks.
C) And no...a Brute doesn't "work fine" without KB protection. It's a crappy situation to live with. That's why there's all of this discussion in this thread.
And I can't really see doing the strangeness that is Hover/TP. While it may work, it has to be clumsy.
Tal, you are still way off base in your arguments.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some people see a lack of a heal as a weakness, yet not one single person would claim that Energy Armor or Super Reflexes is underperforming and they don't have heals or dull pain either.
[/ QUOTE ]
I believe the "having no heal is a weakness" camp have specifically stated a number of times in this thread that it's "having no heal in a +Res set is a weakness." Super Reflexes and Energy Aura are both +Def sets.
[/ QUOTE ]
Correct, it is about a heal in a Res set. However, having no heal in +Def set is nasty. When you get hit you take it ALL baby! Hopefully the Def changes in I7 will help mitigate that to a degree.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm going to offer up what is probably going to be a completely wacky idea: change power sink to have the same effects as Energy Absorption from the Ice Armor line. This would give it pretty much the same qualities it has now but with the added bonus of +Def. It wouldn't be much, but might help in large battles so that you get hit a bit less.
Sure, it's no self-heal, but it could help.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sweet idea!
Total Focus is a hold, right?
[ QUOTE ]
My only issue with this AT so far is it is sooooo end heavy.
I assume once I get my attacks SOed with end and get all the powers SOed it will be better.
But I already see fitness a must and leaping a must for immob protection and end recovery.
And has anyone else had the chance to build up a nice pile of MOBs with Staice field then hi thunder strike OOOOMMMMMGGGGG its so cool and if you get 10 mobs one hit with thunder strike gives you 50-75% rage Yummy
[/ QUOTE ]
All of the Brutes run into end problems. Just get Stamina like every other character. Oh, and you have end conservation and end drain powers. I don't get your point here.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
The way I actually see it is that the real issue is the combination of no immoblization protection, no knockback protection, and no ability to recover health.
There is one undeniable fact about this: No other Brute set needs to go into power pools like this.
Sure you can plan 1 of 2 ways for dealing with no knock back or immoblization.
But there one and only 1 option for health recovery avaiable. If that option is not taken, then the player becomes utterly dependant upon green inspriations, or teaming with only specific AT sets.
Otherwise, expect to have a higher rate of down time. More time down means less Fury building. Less Fury building is less SMASH time.
[ QUOTE ]
The way I actually see it is that the real issue is the combination of no immoblization protection, no knockback protection, and no ability to recover health.
There is one undeniable fact about this: No other Brute set needs to go into power pools like this.
Sure you can plan 1 of 2 ways for dealing with no knock back or immoblization.
But there one and only 1 option for health recovery avaiable. If that option is not taken, then the player becomes utterly dependant upon green inspriations, or teaming with only specific AT sets.
Otherwise, expect to have a higher rate of down time. More time down means less Fury building. Less Fury building is less SMASH time.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's really no KB prot or Heal, IMHO, is the issue. Also, I really really do not see how the so-called benefits touted previously in this thread outweigh the above shortcomings. End drain resist is situational, so resist to it is not so important. Especially when you have 2 end powers in the set.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and you people arguing about Grounded, you do realize that -Jump and -Fly make no thematic sense, right? 
"I do not think that word means, what you think it means." 
[/ QUOTE ]
You do realize the power is called "Grounded" meaning "in contact with the ground to harmlessly transport electricity to the ground." How is -jump and -fly not in line with the theme?
I see the holes. I really do. I also see that they can be covered through power pools. Does this bother me. Not really. Why? Because I see the closest approximation of my dream brute. Why is this? I'll tell you.
Assuming I take the leaping pool and Aid Self I have these power that when all added up give me basically my dream brute build:
+recharge, -slow resist, +speed, I have been dreaming for this on a brute since brutes came out. It is about as perfect a power for a brute as you can get. You'll be the most offensive capable brute running around if you slot for it and you'll have the endurance options to do it!
End drain resist, -recovery resist. God I hate this crap. Glad I get protection to it.
psionic resist. Everyone keeps quoting 40%. Is that accounting for the resistance from static shield too? Either way, I like having good resistance to psionic.
Tp resist. Thanks. Hate getting tp'ed in pvp. Sorry if you folks that don't pvp don't care about this bonus. I do.
+end recovery and end conserve. Power sink is gonna be awesome. One of the best powers a brute can have since we burn through endurance so fast. Conserve Power may be redundant like it is on /EA, but I still use it on big boss fights and 1 vs 1 duels in pvp.
Energy resist. Ok now, "WHO" doesn't like having energy resist. Name another secondary that can get like 88% total resist against anything without using a godmode power. People seem to gloss over this lil tidbit. 88% resist is GINORMOUS. This alone sells me on the set besides all the other great utilities. I will never fear EM attacks at all while everyone else will. Ok, blappers still have 30% unresistable damage, but still, they'll only be doing a hair over 30% damage. Not to mention you'll laugh at energy damage in pve too.
fire/cold/neg resist. 40% is alot better than my INV brute has right now. If I had all my passives I'd still only have about 20%. I could see them being raised to about 45% total and negative resist increased from 30-45% like the others.
Power Surge. HMM. Another set seller. Ill have like probably a max possible energy resist of...hmm....163%! And I'll be capped for S/L too and well, basically I'll be capped or over the cap on everything! Well I can tell you fire and dark don't get a power like this. And we get an EMP pulse at the end that will most likely give us just enough time to retoggle thus saving our life. That's sweeter than yoo-hoo baby.
Aid Self. Well now I have my heal covered. And a good heal at that. HArd to get off the heal off because we're not defense based. LOL. I've used Aid Self on reistance based brutes and it works just fine. 2 interrupts is all you need. 3 if you're super paranoid about it. Heck, you have a +recharge passive power so you can skip the recharge adn go 3 heal/3interrupt, done.
Leaping. Now I don't have to worry about immob and KB. Plus I'm traveling around using the most versatile travel power and I get "some" defense outta combat jumping and outstanding combat manueverability.
Hmm. Fitness? Ya, I'll keep it even after I get Power Sink and CP. Brutes just plain eat up end. Although, "WITH" that passive +recharge power, Power Surge will come up a little faster and may make the Hasten+godmode, crash, power sink, Conserve power+hasten and repeat combo quite effective. Meaning a good chance of going staminaless and doing even better at it than an /EA brute. Also, I will 3 slot health. Regening 77 hp every 7 seconds is nice.
Hasten. Gotta have it. Especially since it'll constantly recharge 20% faster. What's that mean? Instead of 1 minute to wait after the power crashes, you'll only have to wait about 48 seconds. Every second counts.
Or I could skip hasten and take tough to bring my S/L up to around 57%. So, I now have 88% energy resist and 57% S/L. The 2 most common in the game I believe. Combined with Aid Self, I don't have any problems.
Heavy toggle use? Not really. If I run charged armor, conductive shield, static shield, combat jumping, acrobatics and tough while fighting I'm running 6 toggles. That's 1 more than my /EA brute runs and he has plenty of endurance to go around. Put an end reduc in each toggle and you're A'ok. Or put 1 end reduc in only the most expensive and put 2 or even 3 in acrob. Tough doesn't use that much endo. I have it on my INV brute and only have 1 end reduc in it. If you are really concerned with endo above and beyond the fact you have PS and CP that will recharge faster than /EA's, you can always slot 1 end reduc in attacks. Problem solved.
I'm happy. I like all the exotic resistances I have and would rather have them and have to take power pools to fill the gaps then not have them and not be able to get them.
I'm looking at the build as a whole, and it ROCKS.
I guess I'm the glass is half full kinda guy. I see what the set will be capable of after the holes are filled. Others see only doom or pigeon-holing.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and you people arguing about Grounded, you do realize that -Jump and -Fly make no thematic sense, right? "I do not think that word means, what you think it means."
[/ QUOTE ]
You do realize the power is called "Grounded" meaning "in contact with the ground to harmlessly transport electricity to the ground." How is -jump and -fly not in line with the theme?
[/ QUOTE ]
Acutally, if they could write the code for it it would be really cool if.....:
Grounded only gave you knockback protection when your on the ground. I.e. if your flying, jumping, tping.. whatever you would not be protected, but if you are flat on the ground...you are. Not sure if they could code that in properly though.
You could still leave it as an inate ability in that it only gives the protection on a limited basis and is not your full status protection - so your main status protection could still be knocked off.
Does anyone else see Grounded as /ELA's equivalent of /Fire's Temperature Protection? A passive power that is largely redundant with the other protections you get---so much so that most people won't bother to take it in what will already be a very tight build?
CGU:
Honor Harrison: 50 PB
CGS:
Capt. Arabella Blood: 50 Ice/Kin C
Maiden Might: 50 SS/INV B
Valentina Metis: 50 NW
Dark Falconayra: 45 EM/DA B
Imperiatrix: 45 Fire/Kin C
Fiona Flitterwing: 47 Ice/Kin C
Doc Electroshock: 43 SM/ELA B
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone else see Grounded as /ELA's equivalent of /Fire's Temperature Protection? A passive power that is largely redundant with the other protections you get---so much so that most people won't bother to take it in what will already be a very tight build?
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually yes, considering it boosts your end drain protection and with 2 main shields your energy resistance will already be maxed out. Negative energy will be probably 8% even 3 slotted. Very dependant on recharge times of some of the other powers, including power sink.
[ QUOTE ]
*screams in frustration*
For the love of whatever deity you people hold dear, can we stop beating the "lack of KB protection" dead horse with the stick yet?
Lack of KB protection is -not-, I repeat NOT a major issue in a set with this much utility. Hell, there's a lot more utility here than /fire tanks get, and the lack of KB protection hasn't stopped them. Either way, however, you're beating a dead horse. The devs are fully aware that no KB protection is a hole in this set. Odds are, they intended it to be.
The entire argument is like receiving a free mansion to live in, and [censored] about the color of the tile in the bathroom. It's an excellent set, with good utility that makes it stand out above the other sets, who friggin' cares about one dinky hole that's easily filled with something else?
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, it's good you're here to tell us what we're supposed to like or dislike about new powersets. Without that guidance, we'd all be lost. 
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
I would gladly trade conserve power for quick recovery or a self heal.
Another idea is giving grounded a +end effect.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*screams in frustration*
For the love of whatever deity you people hold dear, can we stop beating the "lack of KB protection" dead horse with the stick yet?
Lack of KB protection is -not-, I repeat NOT a major issue in a set with this much utility. Hell, there's a lot more utility here than /fire tanks get, and the lack of KB protection hasn't stopped them. Either way, however, you're beating a dead horse. The devs are fully aware that no KB protection is a hole in this set. Odds are, they intended it to be.
The entire argument is like receiving a free mansion to live in, and [censored] about the color of the tile in the bathroom. It's an excellent set, with good utility that makes it stand out above the other sets, who friggin' cares about one dinky hole that's easily filled with something else?
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, it's good you're here to tell us what we're supposed to like or dislike about new powersets. Without that guidance, we'd all be lost.
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess so, considering that you were so lost that you read things I never said into my post. 
I could give a rat's heiney whether you like or dislike the powers, but the fact is: the KB argument has been thoroughly beaten into the ground over and over again already. There are other things to discuss.
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone else see Grounded as /ELA's equivalent of /Fire's Temperature Protection? A passive power that is largely redundant with the other protections you get---so much so that most people won't bother to take it in what will already be a very tight build?
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah i dont know why every set needs a couple crappy powers like this that most ppl with brains will skip, why not actually make a set where every power is good?
I guess "people with brains" don't do malta or carnie missions, or try to pvp versus ice tanks/kinetics .
You already get end drain protection from the status shield, any extra can and probably will be skipped by most people.
Kinetic Fusion - lvl 50 EM/EA Brute
Galvanized - lvl 50 Bots/Dark Mastermind
Umetrus - lvl 50 Fire/Kin Corruptor
Psychotropic Pstud - lvl 50 Mind/Psi Dom
What makes you think the toggle is 100% protection from endo drain? Is it?
What makes you think Grounded will bring the drain protection up to 100%? It will still be skipped because it's redundant protection and the power slot can be used elsewhere.
Kinetic Fusion - lvl 50 EM/EA Brute
Galvanized - lvl 50 Bots/Dark Mastermind
Umetrus - lvl 50 Fire/Kin Corruptor
Psychotropic Pstud - lvl 50 Mind/Psi Dom
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, it's good you're here to tell us what we're supposed to like or dislike about new powersets. Without that guidance, we'd all be lost.
[/ QUOTE ]
And it's good YOU'RE here to contibute to this thread in a constructive and helpfull manner, you know, sharing your insights or experiences relating to ELA, what ever would we do without you?
Anyway, on the topic of ELA/ , IMO i think this set will perform quite well, it's got pretty good s/l resists and anything that helps with end drain is absolutely worth the trade-off of not having a self-heal. Endurance is key to maintaining a good pace to keep Fury up ( and it also keeps your toggles up and running ).Nothing worse than have those 4-5 Mu Strikers drain you to the point where your toggles drop and then having that Fortuna Mistress mezz you to death.
I know that i'll be looking to team with any Corruptor (heck, any AT) out there when i come across a particularly tough mish, de-buffs or heals plus the added damage will go along way to covering up the lack of a self-heal.
[ QUOTE ]
What makes you think Grounded will bring the drain protection up to 100%? It will still be skipped because it's redundant protection and the power slot can be used elsewhere.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because that's typically how powersets that give partial status resist for multiple powers work. If you take one Super Reflexes power for example, you get 22% DefDebuff resistance. You don't get 100% DefDebuff resistance unless you take all (or nearly all, I forget exactly) of the +Def powers in the whole set.
I don't care if YOU skip it, play your character any way you like. I'd like to know for sure the difference in endo drain protection with vs. without, I would bet ten bucks they did it something like 60% on the toggle / 40% on the passive.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What makes you think Grounded will bring the drain protection up to 100%? It will still be skipped because it's redundant protection and the power slot can be used elsewhere.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because that's typically how powersets that give partial status resist for multiple powers work. If you take one Super Reflexes power for example, you get 22% DefDebuff resistance. You don't get 100% DefDebuff resistance unless you take all (or nearly all, I forget exactly) of the +Def powers in the whole set.
I don't care if YOU skip it, play your character any way you like. I'd like to know for sure the difference in endo drain protection with vs. without, I would bet ten bucks they did it something like 60% on the toggle / 40% on the passive.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I'm sure the Defense Debuff Resistance would be very useful if it actually did anything.
Lack of KB protection is what makes this set terrible. Nearly capped energy resist is nice enough, as is some drain protection. None of that does you much good when one mob can ping pong you to death all across your mission.
Super Jump is lame. Stop making us take it Devs.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ever played a dark armor before? resist to every damage including Psi (59%!), fear, end drain, acc debuff, immob, has a self heal only at the cost of no knockback and practically no defense.
ELA is downright lackluster in flexibility right now, I'm still settled on dark armor and invuln... Why should I pick ELA?
[/ QUOTE ]
Cause ELA has
- auto +rech
- power sink (DA is heavy on end and a pain if you dont have DM)
- conserve power
...
I am not saying ELA is perfect and that the trade of no heal for end tools and other stuff is fair. But it is far from being gimp.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, DA protections come at the cost of some BRUTAL end usage. You need an End recovery power to counter it, like in DM.
Total Focus is a hold, right?