Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Shields
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:02 in Developers' Corner
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Well, I'm going to offer up what is probably going to be a completely wacky idea: change power sink to have the same effects as Energy Absorption from the Ice Armor line. This would give it pretty much the same qualities it has now but with the added bonus of +Def. It wouldn't be much, but might help in large battles so that you get hit a bit less.
Sure, it's no self-heal, but it could help.
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I don't even factor Power Sink in to the set, since it doesn't become available until level 35. I'm not going to struggle and wait that long. I want the set to be fun right away. Fun for a brute secondary means I can take a beating in a fight, with what is for me a reasonable downtime between fights.
Sure, after 35 (probably after re-balancing everything with a respec) the set could probably do well. I could drop Stamina, making room for all the powers I want and need, and my incentive tray would have plenty of room for green pills. But I don't powerlevel, and I can't figure out any kind of build that would be reasonable to get me to 35.
After nearly two years playing, I only have three characters that have made it to 35. So for any characters I make now, the post-30 powers aren't even projected in my builds.
When the 7.5% resist takes you to the cap, that means going from taking 18% damage to 10%, or almost a one half reduction in damage taken. It is simply good to be at the cap. Energy is the third most common damage type (behind of course smashing/lethal) in the game later on, having capped resist for it is pretty damn nice. 65% or so smash/lethal resist on top of that AND significant psi resist is really nothing to take a crap on.
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Most passive protections of this nature cannot provide immunity as they actually don't fully protect you (I believe I want to say "don't offer any Magnitude of protection") but rather just reduce the amount of time you'll be under the effect.
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Since endurance drain does not have any "duration", I have no idea what you're getting at. I also plainly said it is certain that having only one of the endo drain powers will not provide complete immunity to end drain (else why have more than one?)
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I did several Carnie missions with my Dark/Dark Corruptor without having any Endurance problems. Indeed, the only Endurance problems I've had involved certain Longbow agents and their ability to instantly drain your End bar in one shot (dunno if they can still do that or not).
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Your dark/dark corruptor does not stand in melee range when multiple carnies croak, which is when they throw their endo drain. The experience when playing a melee is ENTIRELY different, and standing next to 3-5 carnies that die in unison will pretty much empty you out. This is not an infrequent circumstance in carnie missions even when solo, and especially when teamed. It can't be mitigated except by someone kindly putting endo in you (only Transferrence) or eating blues.
You can expect to see Malta too in the 41+ game on the villains side now that it is going in - someone with a max level villain may wish to confirm, but I feel certain they'll be there, they're frankly pretty cool and usually a decent tactical exercise. They have an endo drainer mob called a Sapper that is similar to the Longbow guy, except that's all he does. He also gives you -recovery. These guys kill tanks when not controlled immediately at the start of a fight.
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Well, I'm going to offer up what is probably going to be a completely wacky idea: change power sink to have the same effects as Energy Absorption from the Ice Armor line. This would give it pretty much the same qualities it has now but with the added bonus of +Def. It wouldn't be much, but might help in large battles so that you get hit a bit less.
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I agree with this suggestion mainly do to the fact that power sink is already a clone of energy drain or vice versus. Tricking out this power for more utility that is specific to the secondary would be nice. I don't, however, want to see the recharge rate on power sink go from sup ~30 with lightning reflexes and SO's to 85-90 seconds.
What would make me more interested is to find out how much protection vs. the "rare" attacks this set gives. If I can laugh at the end drain of Spec-Ops, Sappers, Mu, Carnies, etc. I would certainly try the set. If it is practical invulnerability to end drain (which is everywhere in CoV) then I'm in. How about resistance to -Fly and -Jump as well as Slows?
I would happily take the Leaping pool again if I ignored some of the other prevelent irritations in CoV. If it is a minor resist than this is a crap set.
If they want to make it unique, make it really, REALLY resistant if not immune to many of the most irritating special effects that the other armors do not cover.
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I'm going to suggest replacing the current version of Grounded with a dull pain type power, plus energy/neg energy resist (or even defense?)
+Max HP, Heal, +Defense(all)
Something, anything, just put a heal in!
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I don't wanna make any comments about the build yet because I haven't used it yet... test hasn't been available to me when I've been avialable to it...
But i will say... if you guys do think about creating this type of power for the Elec Brute set..
you should call it defibrillation or defibrillator.... or something else of the sort... it suites the electric heal ..
I haven't finished reading the thread so I hope someone else hasn't already suggested this...
Just my couple of pennies
SINcerely,
Rocky
Power Sink for Brutes appears to be exactly the same power as Power Sink for /Electric blasters, i.e. only endo drain. It's actually a pretty good power in I7, at least the blaster version is, and no good reason to assume the brute version is weaker. If someone among the PL'd-to-40+ crowd can confirm or deny that would be nice to know.
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Since endurance drain does not have any "duration", I have no idea what you're getting at. I also plainly said it is certain that having only one of the endo drain powers will not provide complete immunity to end drain (else why have more than one?)
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answer.... options. you don't have to take any powers, with it being in 2 different powers, you can choose....
which is mainly the arguement i am hearing. hard to be flexible and have all the holes covered. if i had a choose, i want flexiblity of course i would feel better if they would add +regen to a power.
but as it stands now. i don't like being stuck without healing in the early game. kb and immob, who cares. those holes can be covered. but catering to the low-mid game and not making shock brutes gods in pvp, regen would help alot.
a recon or dull pain would make them god like, especially with LR and possibly hasten. ha! you are dumb if you didn't think anyone would see that!
i agree with the power sink idea, unless you could drain 100% in pve with 3 endmods. then i would say that is enough for me. 
I disn't say I was being pigeon holed into SJ, I said I'm going to take SJ anyway so one more power (acro) doesn't bother me. I don't need knockback protection I just find KB annoying and I don't want to deal with it. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
For calculations a heal (when averaged over time) can be treated as more resistance. I do view the lack of heal as a weakness. I felt subpar fighting oranges with my EA until I picked up Aid Self.
I'll have to accept your view of DA since I haven't played one past lvl 10.
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Likewise FA needs enemies within range to recover endurance while Elec Armor can reduce its endurance cost without nearby enemies
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Conserve power is 90 sec of every ~6 min. FA gets their end recovery power (on a ridiculous timer) at level 20. This power operates similar to Elecs lvl 35 power.
I didn't include it earlier but using the 1 def=2 res idea EA's resist average is close to 32% in comparison to Elec's 27%.
Assuming those numbers I came up with are any acurate metric that drops the numbers to
Fire 6 +'s, 10 -'s
DA 9 +'s, 5 -'s (no ++ for crowd control)
Elec 7 +'s, 9 -'s
This still leaves DA on top by a little.
*edit*
But a lot of my suspicion of this set hinges on the slow and end drain/-recovery is. If those let me ignore sappers, carnies and longbow. While sprinting across quicksand.....I've got no argument about the set. All those "exotic" defenses would make the set worthwhile. If they are as I suspect they are hardly noteworthy at all.
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Well, I'm going to offer up what is probably going to be a completely wacky idea: change power sink to have the same effects as Energy Absorption from the Ice Armor line. This would give it pretty much the same qualities it has now but with the added bonus of +Def. It wouldn't be much, but might help in large battles so that you get hit a bit less.
Sure, it's no self-heal, but it could help.
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Cool idea.
Let's see...trading Psi Resistance, Recharge Boost,and Endurance Recovery for a vulnerability to KB and Immobilize and a lack of Healing?
Sign me up! It's not like you can get Psi Resistance from a Power Pool.
On the other hand, the idea of making Grounded more useful by making it more like Rooted also appeals to me. It may be a pun, but I have no problem with the idea that 'grounded' means 'cannot fly or leap' in this context.
Sure, it may be a pain in PvP, but a lack of Psi Resistance in PvP could be a pain as well. And if you are in a situation where you need to speed away, you could just turn off Grounded and go. Sure, you might be hit with KB as you flee, but that's got to be better than sticking around at that point...
A set with holes, or a set with self-penalties...this set could go either way, and either would be fine, but so far Stone is the one set with self-penalties instead of holes. I say let's make Electric Shields the second one.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Let's see...trading Psi Resistance, Recharge Boost,and Endurance Recovery for a vulnerability to KB and Immobilize and a lack of Healing?
Sign me up! It's not like you can get Psi Resistance from a Power Pool.
On the other hand, the idea of making Grounded more useful by making it more like Rooted also appeals to me. It may be a pun, but I have no problem with the idea that 'grounded' means 'cannot fly or leap' in this context.
Sure, it may be a pain in PvP, but a lack of Psi Resistance in PvP could be a pain as well. And if you are in a situation where you need to speed away, you could just turn off Grounded and go. Sure, you might be hit with KB as you flee, but that's got to be better than sticking around at that point...
A set with holes, or a set with self-penalties...this set could go either way, and either would be fine, but so far Stone is the one set with self-penalties instead of holes. I say let's make Electric Shields the second one.
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I am just glad with what we get and already have 2 defined plans for a kick [censored] pvp build. If you combine this secondary with the elec primary, you will be the bane of any melee opponent. The drain from the attacks coupled with the drain of a lightning reflex stimulated power sink will force most people into clicking their godmode power or running if they lack one. You wait a little while, click yours and then make sure you have follow on so you can decimate them when their godmode drops before yours. I do alright as it is with this kind of tactic with an em/ea brute, granted the frontload damage is greater. If it had the damage resistance during level 38 pvp, where everyone seems to hit your repeatedly, I would be unstoppable.
People always seem to believe that specking your toon for pvp gimps it in pve. The obvious opposite is in fact true. A perfect pvp build is a perfect pve build. You have accounted for every weakness you can protect against. You have slotted for accuracy and damage. You have developed several attack strategies and retreat strategies. This build has holes that you can fill with power pools and powers you can't get through the power pools. I am glad it will never change.
Not to mention the natural counter for Ice/EM tanks - capped energy resist, high smashing resist, endo drain resist, slow resist, disorient resist.
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OK I have to just speak up here about everyone moaning about Elec Armor needing this and that.
Lets look at this in the big picture rather than saying 'I want it to do THIS'. Each powerset needs to be induvidual to itself, it wouldn't be any fun to have 10 Energy Blasts which all behaved in the same way with maybe 1 or two signiture powers. Likewise armors have to be very induvidual as well. Additionally every powerset NEEDS to have a weakness and a strength. Without that there is no need to team as you have no limitations, armor in particular HAS to have holes within it.
Typically a powerset has a purpose, if a powerset breaks the purpose it takes penalties within to balance it out. A case example is Ice Blast. A primary for blasters is supposed to be about raw damage yet ice blast offers alot of control powers. As a penalty it suffers from mediocre AoE and heavy endurance costs. Fire armor is supposed to be a tanker primary intended for defence. Except it deals damage directly, as such it has weaknesses greater than normal because it breaks the purpose of what a primary tanker power is supposed to do.
Elec Armor is an interesting hybrid of abilities. Its more utility based than some sets plus it has direct damage potential. However alot of its powers are defensive in nature. You can see this balancing system in action. It has less damage potential than fire armor, so it offers higher protection than fire armor. However it offers more ultility than Invulnerability so it has less protection than invulnerability.
Now everyone compares alot of the armor sets to invul but I'll point out one simple fact. Invul is PURE PROTECTION with almost no utility. It only has one power which buffs something other than defence, health or resistance and that simply gives a moderate acc buff. So its amazing protection is because (a) it doesn't do anything beyond the purpose of the set and (b) it doesn't have utility powers or extra special protections.
I know knockback protection is something alot of people hate, but the fact is that in order to put it back in you'd need to lose something in return. Maybe alot in return, endurance drain protection seems most likely and perhaps teleport protection would have to go to since these are 'exotic' defences. Now some will say yes to stripping those out. But if you do then Elec Armor suddenly only has a few things to make it unique. The endurance reduction powers and a damage aura.
That might be enough, but lets be fair here. There is much defence against endurance drains so this set really stands out as special because of it, this will make enemies like MALTA, Carnies and Longbow a hell of alot easier. All things considered, I'd rather have a powerset with a hole I can fill with a powerpool than not have to take a powerpool but be completely unable to defend myself against endurance draining powers.
With the ability to fix the weaknesses in the set with just one powerpool I'd say its a fairly good trade to the number 1 killer of all brutes. A complete lack of endurance.
So lay off with wanting to turn the set into something less unique just because you don't like what its offering. If you want higher protection go make an invulnerability brute, its why the set exists. If you want to be a tanker go invul, if you want something different and more varied go elec.
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I think you are off base here. Folks are evaluating the new set and seeing how it stacks up against the others. Everyone wants a VIABLE powerset that players will actually USE. That's the main contention here. It has to have strengths and weaknesses. But too many glaring holes will just make folks go use some other set. Why would you use Elec if it is too cumbersome? I guess you could use it for a Roleplay point. But that will get old after getting beat down consistently, except for the heaviest RP'ers.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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I would figure nothing about the set will change except if there are bugs. Which means use a set that works or spend the extra 3 - 5 pool power selections and 5+ slots to plug the holes. Run the 6 - 7 toggles you need to run to work. At least you should be able to have 3 - 4 attacks and maybe with Stamina you will be able to fight.
I am planning on attempting the Combat Jumping, Acrobatics with Aid Self... no idea where I am going to get the slots for Aid Self
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That's easy. Forget about Taunt in your primary and either Conserve Energy or Power Sink in Elec Armor.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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i really wish grounded was what someone suggested, a toggle with medium end cost that did -fly, -jump, and +regen and knockback protection
i'd play the set if it had this, otherwise i'll roll a elec/stone or /EA or something (would've picked /inv but its ugly black now)
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I don't get it. I honestly don't.
There's a Brute set with a Quickness clone power, and people want to change it to Fast Healing? Cause Brutes never need +recharge and +runspeed for Fury. Naah...
/e boggles. Am I missing something? No, that's not a rhetorical question.
Thanks,
-> Scott.
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/agreed
Total Focus is a hold, right?
*screams in frustration*
For the love of whatever deity you people hold dear, can we stop beating the "lack of KB protection" dead horse with the stick yet?
Lack of KB protection is -not-, I repeat NOT a major issue in a set with this much utility. Hell, there's a lot more utility here than /fire tanks get, and the lack of KB protection hasn't stopped them. Either way, however, you're beating a dead horse. The devs are fully aware that no KB protection is a hole in this set. Odds are, they intended it to be.
The entire argument is like receiving a free mansion to live in, and [censored] about the color of the tile in the bathroom. It's an excellent set, with good utility that makes it stand out above the other sets, who friggin' cares about one dinky hole that's easily filled with something else?
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My beef isn't with the lack of KB protection or the lack of a self heal. The only problem I have is that there is a lack of sources to gain such protection and from most of the complaints I've read this is the underlying reason a lot of others don't like Elec not having this kind of protection.
Manuevers is in need of a buff, maybe that's a place to start.
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I think the lack of KB or self-heal is EXACTLY the issue here. Put either one in the set and I'd be ecstatic. There's really no point to two End powers either.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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Lack of KB protection is -not-, I repeat NOT a major issue in a set with this much utility.
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I agree. The point I keep making is that it's lack of knockback protection AND lack of immobilization protection AND lack of a self heal. I can cover for any one of those easily enough.
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Your e-tough attitude is not impressive and it's not having the effect you desire. I don't think you're smart or tough. I, in fact, am rather sure you're niether.
The toggle provides an option. You can take that to protect you from KB, or you can do the hover/TP or Accro thing. Leaving it as is means to stand up you have to do one of those two.
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Pinkstar is right on. It's your bashing attitude that is not impressive. Attack the arguer, not the argument eh?
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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Lack of KB protection is -not-, I repeat NOT a major issue in a set with this much utility. Hell, there's a lot more utility here than /fire tanks get, and the lack of KB protection hasn't stopped them. Either way, however, you're beating a dead horse. The devs are fully aware that no KB protection is a hole in this set. Odds are, they intended it to be.
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Just because existing sets also have this problem doesn't make it right to add it into a new set.
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The entire argument is like receiving a free mansion to live in, and [censored] about the color of the tile in the bathroom. It's an excellent set, with good utility that makes it stand out above the other sets, who friggin' cares about one dinky hole that's easily filled with something else?
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No, it's like getting a free mansion that is entirely missing a front door. And the only way to get a front door is to go down to the Home Depot and buy the same generic front-door that every other Tom, Dick, and Harry uses on their manufactured homes.
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My only issue with this AT so far is it is sooooo end heavy.
I assume once I get my attacks SOed with end and get all the powers SOed it will be better.
But I already see fitness a must and leaping a must for immob protection and end recovery.
And has anyone else had the chance to build up a nice pile of MOBs with Staice field then hi thunder strike OOOOMMMMMGGGGG its so cool and if you get 10 mobs one hit with thunder strike gives you 50-75% rage Yummy
My 2 cents....
The whole point of resistance is that you are going to get hit, just not as hard.
In the EA set you have tons of defense, and when you do get hit you have passives to help take the sting out a little.
Every other set has a self heal.
/Elec has nothing but resistance. No defense. No healing. IMHO it needs one or the other, because we are GOING to be hit and we shouldn't HAVE to go to power pools to be viable, we should have the option of going to power pools.
That being said, I will be making a dark/elec (for the small but frequent heal that does some damage).
Make a man a fire and keep him warm for the day, SET a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Incarnates: K'lir(Fire/Dark Corr):Hot-House Flower(Plant/Fire Dom):Kinrad X(Kin/Rad Def):Itsy-Bitsy Spider(Crab):Two Ton Tony(Mace/WP Broot):Teeny Weeny Widow(Fortunata/Widow) : Zeroth Law (Ice/Fire Tank)
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you could just get acro and not get the power that comes in your secondary, but for ppl who dont want superjump it would give them another option of travel while still being able to get KB resist
and it sometimes seems like the devs are on drugs. have you seen our patron powers? they do like twice the dmg of brawl at best
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<rant>
At the risk of getting wacked for off-topic, the PPPs are a blatant attempt at not thinking through from a player perspective, but reusing code to keep cost down to maximize profits. Don't worry, in the long run lack of vision and originality will come back to bite the company in the behind.
</rant>
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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Are you familiar with what is like to play locked to the ground?
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As someone who constantly ran around Rooted with my Stone Tanker, I do. And while I'm not enamored of -jump, I'd have to say that I prefer being stuck standing on the ground, to being stuck with my [censored] on the ground.
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Woot! You KB'd me with that comment! Right on target.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
Well, I'm going to offer up what is probably going to be a completely wacky idea: change power sink to have the same effects as Energy Absorption from the Ice Armor line. This would give it pretty much the same qualities it has now but with the added bonus of +Def. It wouldn't be much, but might help in large battles so that you get hit a bit less.
Sure, it's no self-heal, but it could help.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus