Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Shields
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:02 in Developers' Corner
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just tested the smashing/lethal resistance on my elec/elec brute:
longbow brawl, no shield: 2.42 damage
longbow brawl, w/ shield: 1.78 damage
shield base resist: 26%
shield max (3 SOs) resist: 40%
color me unimpressed. we get no immobilize protection, no knockback protection, and no self heal, and still fall about 10% short of invulnerability to the most prevalent damage types?
i'm going to go test conductive shield as soon as i get back on test (just got dc'ed).
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed, it doesn't seem to stack up against other sets. Where's the unique benefit?
[/ QUOTE ]
Apparently you missed my post completely then and 40% is for every resistance except negative energy is less and energy is maxed out on your resistance higher then the other sets. Hell 40% is higher then Inv tanks get for there energy and elemental resistances and twice what Inv brutes get. The big issue is having no defense or heal and since you have no defense it makes medicine not a viable option. Having no immob or knockback resistance makes SJ pretty much a must. As well as the fact that this makes the 3rd out of 5 sets without knockback resistance when knockback is not good for building up fury. The reason Ice Armor was removed from brutes in beta was because it was said to be bad for Fury buildup but they have no problem including 3 sets without knockback resistance which hurts fury buildup and also forces you to take SJ if you want it.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's not saying much. After Statesman and ED brutally [censored] Invuln's resistances to anything but smash/lethal, they aren't even worth taking anymore. INV's other resistances need some love...normal, sweet, chef love...not brutal prison love.
/SIGH
Djeannie's Costume Creator Overhaul Wishlist
Carnie Base
"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
[ QUOTE ]
never fought malta, but i've fought carnies a lot with my stalker and mm and haven't had much trouble with them...
[/ QUOTE ]
It's very likely there will be one or more Malta storylines 41-50, so you probably will.
Regarding Carnies, again your stalker isn't throwing much AOE damage like some brutes do, and as definitely happens on teams; and your mastermind likely is not in melee range with carnies when they die. They ALL have a PBAOE end drain that takes ~20 endo that triggers when they die. How many times will a brute be surrounded by carnies dying in large numbers all at once? Oh yeah, and they do a ton of psi and energy damage by the way.
[ QUOTE ]
hell, even the longbow spec ops super drain grenade only drains like 80% of my end, leaving me enough to kill him (if it's just 1)
[/ QUOTE ]
You aren't bothered by having 80% of your endo drained????
I don't know what you're smoking, but I can almost guarantee you they will never give anyone full resistance to end drain. Add in the fact that we already get close to capped energy resists and I really don't see the point in wasting a power slot I could be using to get aid self. Feel free to take the gimp passive if you like, it'll still be gimp.
Kinetic Fusion - lvl 50 EM/EA Brute
Galvanized - lvl 50 Bots/Dark Mastermind
Umetrus - lvl 50 Fire/Kin Corruptor
Psychotropic Pstud - lvl 50 Mind/Psi Dom
sure 80% is a bit harsh, but my stalker was fighting one of those an hour ago and just alternated sting of the wasp and divine avalanche 3 times and the spec ops was dead, i didnt even need to use a blue (though i had a lot)
i dont find end drain that big a deal, you always have blues. or several corrs get end-transferring powers at 35/38, team with them (kin, thermal, and cold off the top of my head)
A high level stone tanker running Rooted has 100% or near enough that I can't tell the difference. I completely ignore endo draining mobs including Sappers with my stone tank. As far as I can tell I don't get any endo drained at all.
Also, since O2 Boost stacks with itself, any Storm can buff anyone to 100% endo drain resist.
Since the level cap is raised to 50, it will not be a big trick to take all powers in primary and secondary that you want and still fit aid sellf if you really want it. 24 power picks total, 18 from primary/secondary, 2 from travel (or 3 if you want Acrobatics), and stamina is looking to be rather optional if you decide to take both Conserve Power and Power Sink. Conserve Power looks to me to be the one to skip actually, I think it will be overkill to have that much endo management at your fingertips but we'll see.
Out of the primaries, all of them that I can think of have one power that is marginally useful, in the case of Electric/ I'd likely skip Lightning Clap since the set otherwise has two AOE knockdowns. That leaves 16 + 3 (leaping/acrobatics + 3 (stamina) = 2 picks to spare. The epics aren't too exciting looking except maybe the extra AOE attack, which would take 2 picks. ^_^
"feel free to gimp yourself", where did that come from? I truly do not care what power you take or don't take, but if you think a power is "gimp" before you even know what it does, that's kind of silly. Speaking of smoking, please feel free to have a hit from my bong. You are way too uptight.
Your stalker can do this because the large +Def buff from Divine stacks with itself, and more importantly as you said you were only dealing with one mob. The +Def will never be true for Electric Armor, and as a brute you will rarely ever be dealing with only one mob at a time. When you play a tank/brute at upper levels and you have aggro from 10-15 mobs at a time, you may change your mind.
Having someone reactively put endo back into you is not NEARLY as good as never having it drained in the first place, much along the same lines as hitpoints. As a brute if something zeroes your endo when you have aggro from multiple mobs and your toggles drop, you're often toast.
If you're cool with having 80% of your endo drained, this set is probably not for you in the first place. The main thing the set has going for it is endo management, most of the rest is nice but not exactly earthshattering and certainly not unique.
we already have an end-management secondary, it's EA
which has a much better status protection power, and because it's defense instead of resist its easier to use aid self
ehh im done with this topic unless the devs actually read it and improve elec armor
[ QUOTE ]
When the 7.5% resist takes you to the cap, that means going from taking 18% damage to 10%, or almost a one half reduction in damage taken.
[/ QUOTE ]
An interesting way to look at it. If the total resistance was 1% and the passive boosted it another 1% that would be DOUBLING your resistance! *gasp* That'd be awesome! Optimistic, but not realistic. It's not halving the damage, it's merely shaving off less than 1/10 from the total damage.
The resistances you get with the toggles is nice. In the scheme of things, the minor boost from the passive is fairly pointless and arguably not worth a power and two extra slots.
[ QUOTE ]
Since endurance drain does not have any "duration", I have no idea what you're getting at.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then the Carnies must hit you with -Recovery because after they die in their little column of light I get the little downward spiral of blue for several seconds afterwards.
[ QUOTE ]
Your dark/dark corruptor does not stand in melee range when multiple carnies croak, which is when they throw their endo drain.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm glad you were playing my Corruptor to determine that. It certainly saved me time in levelling. I've been hit by their dying columns of light a number of times. Mission maps put me in close quarters with them way more often than I'd like. Sure, with street sweeping it rarely happens, but I don't indulge in such pasttimes anyway.
[ QUOTE ]
You can expect to see Malta too in the 41+ game on the villains side now that it is going in
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm somewhat familiar with Sappers, having SK'd up with my Tanker (back before I5 when I was still playing my Tanker) to help with Malta missions. They died quickly and that was just under the gentle ministrations of a Defender and a Tanker. As long as you target them first they don't seem particularly dangerous.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
[ QUOTE ]
The resistances you get with the toggles is nice. In the scheme of things, the minor boost from the passive is fairly pointless and arguably not worth a power and two extra slots.
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, then don't take it. Are you trying to convince everyone everywhere that it should never be taken under any circumstance? Why would you bother? You don't want it, don't take it. Play your character how you please.
Your perceptions of how frustrating endo drain can be in the high game are very different from mine, which is fine. Personally I despise it and find it frequent enough that I am pleased to see a set that looks to be strong against it. Okay with you?
I don't care if we do not get a Self Heal or a Resistance to Immob.
I do care that we should get KB Protection, thats all I want this set to have added. I would & Did(DA & FA) get tired of being the guy who's up front & suppose to be keeping the fists in my face at all times(Tanks, Brutes, Scrappers), then I get flung across the room, watching all the squishies go splatorama)
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon
[ QUOTE ]
I don't care if we do not get a Self Heal or a Resistance to Immob.
I do care that we should get KB Protection, thats all I want this set to have added. I would & Did(DA & FA) get tired of being the guy who's up front & suppose to be keeping the fists in my face at all times(Tanks, Brutes, Scrappers), then I get flung across the room, watching all the squishies go splatorama)
JJ
[/ QUOTE ]
My biggest problem is the fact that people say take SJ for your immob and KB resistance, except you can only have either superjump or combat jumping on. So while traveling you loose your immob resistance. Back with fire tanks we were told the you can simply cast Burn and then continue moving. But what about having no Burn to use. Not that I even found that to be an option, considering the animation time for Burn in some cases you would be dead before being able to move again. But here if you take SJ to get your immob and KB resistance you are still loosing out.
Now I know someone will come back and say get weave, which is another 3 powers simply to get that. Having resistance to slow but not immob does not make sense concept wise.
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, then don't take it. Are you trying to convince everyone everywhere that it should never be taken under any circumstance?
[/ QUOTE ]
Only inasmuch as you were trying to convince everyone everywhere that it's worth taking. Shall we dance in a circle again?
[ QUOTE ]
Your perceptions of how frustrating endo drain can be in the high game are very different from mine, which is fine. Personally I despise it and find it frequent enough that I am pleased to see a set that looks to be strong against it. Okay with you?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll be happy to have it as well, but not at the cost of lack of protection against something that is irritating and potentially deadly *throughout* the game rather than just in the latest levels. Because that's not a fair tradeoff.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Where did I say "you are stupid if you don't take this"? I pointed out that the effects the power grants are useful and valuable. Did I ever say anything like "only smart people will take this power" or "you're gimped if you don't take this power"? By contrast, some others have tossed around implications you're a gimp and a moron if you take Grounded, and in fact none of them have even tried it yet, and at least some appear to be basing their judgement off of completely irrelevant experiences (e.g. your dark/dark corruptor).
If you want knockback protection, get knockback protection, that's not a big point for me because it is easily solved and I got tired of arguing about that a month ago. If you think the set sucks, don't play it, and if a lot of people agree with you, then they won't play it either. Eventually that gets addressed and the set gets buffed e.g. Trick Arrow's recent halving of most of its recharges. I think everyone is well aware now that the set does not have knockback protection, and I don't think anyone has said they are happy that the set does not have knockback protection. This stopped being news the day after they announced it.
[ QUOTE ]
My biggest problem is the fact that people say take SJ for your immob and KB resistance, except you can only have either superjump or combat jumping on.
[/ QUOTE ]
Both powers have an activation time of 0 and recharge time of 0, and immob doesn't prevent you from activating powers, it's not really that horrible to click a button when needed.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My biggest problem is the fact that people say take SJ for your immob and KB resistance, except you can only have either superjump or combat jumping on.
[/ QUOTE ]
Both powers have an activation time of 0 and recharge time of 0, and immob doesn't prevent you from activating powers, it's not really that horrible to click a button when needed.
[/ QUOTE ]
You completely missed the point. You can NOT travel if you get immobolized.
[ QUOTE ]
My biggest problem is the fact that people say take SJ for your immob and KB resistance, except you can only have either superjump or combat jumping on.
[/ QUOTE ]
I say get Hover and Teleport for your resistance holes and laugh at immobilizes. Laugh I say!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My biggest problem is the fact that people say take SJ for your immob and KB resistance, except you can only have either superjump or combat jumping on.
[/ QUOTE ]
Both powers have an activation time of 0 and recharge time of 0, and immob doesn't prevent you from activating powers, it's not really that horrible to click a button when needed.
[/ QUOTE ]
You completely missed the point. You can NOT travel if you get immobolized.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I think you missed his point. If, while SJing along, you happen to be hit with an immobolise, switch to CJ. It gives Immob resist, which will shorten or negate the effect. Then switch back to SJ. The two powers have no activation time and no recharge time, so there's no reason not to.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.) - Whitman
Consistency is the defense of a small mind. - Beldin
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My biggest problem is the fact that people say take SJ for your immob and KB resistance, except you can only have either superjump or combat jumping on.
[/ QUOTE ]
I say get Hover and Teleport for your resistance holes and laugh at immobilizes. Laugh I say!
[/ QUOTE ]
Hover also allows you to completely ignore Caltrops and Quicksandlike powers (as long as you don't get too close to the ground).
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.) - Whitman
Consistency is the defense of a small mind. - Beldin
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My biggest problem is the fact that people say take SJ for your immob and KB resistance, except you can only have either superjump or combat jumping on.
[/ QUOTE ]
I say get Hover and Teleport for your resistance holes and laugh at immobilizes. Laugh I say!
[/ QUOTE ]
Hover also allows you to completely ignore Caltrops and Quicksandlike powers (as long as you don't get too close to the ground).
[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't that be the point of lightning reflexes?
That is a good point, although you still have -jump to contend with if you do end up taking Jumping, and both Quicksand and Caltrops apply -jump.
[ QUOTE ]
Where did I say "you are stupid if you don't take this"?
[/ QUOTE ]
Where did I say you were stupid for taking it?
[ QUOTE ]
I pointed out that the effects the power grants are useful and valuable.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I merely pointed out how they weren't. Round and round we go.
[ QUOTE ]
and at least some appear to be basing their judgement off of completely irrelevant experiences (e.g. your dark/dark corruptor).
[/ QUOTE ]
It was relevant to the question of how commonplace Endurance Drain is. I've had a number of characters up to 30 who've never seen Endurance Drain at all. And for the ones who have faced it it hasn't been much of a problem. Protection from Hamidon would be nice to have for some folks, too, but overall it's not particularly useful.
[ QUOTE ]
If you want knockback protection, get knockback protection, that's not a big point for me because it is easily solved and I got tired of arguing about that a month ago.
[/ QUOTE ]
If Power Pools weren't set up with prerequisites it would be easily solved. As it stands, taking 2-3 extra powers to get the protection is far from "easily solved."
[ QUOTE ]
If you think the set sucks, don't play it, and if a lot of people agree with you, then they won't play it either.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well if it's just that easy, then don't worry about our complaints and whether it gets changed or not. If it gets changed and you don't like it you can just not play it.
But from my point of view the situation isn't quite that binary.
[ QUOTE ]
I think everyone is well aware now that the set does not have knockback protection, and I don't think anyone has said they are happy that the set does not have knockback protection. This stopped being news the day after they announced it.
[/ QUOTE ]
And if people didn't argue against the notion of Knockback-oriented changes then there'd be a great deal fewer posts about it in this thread. It's a two-way street.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Argue with someone else. Bye now. *plonk*
Ok here are the numbers for grounded.
Negative is 7.5% base
Energy is 9.425%
Haven't tested the end drain resist from it yet though
That means with each power 3 slotted with even level
Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Psionic is 41%
Energy is 96.7%
Negative is 35%
Numbers include Charge Armor, Conductive Shield, Static Shield and Grounded.
Tough 3-slotted is what, 26% smash/lethal?
ps: thanks for the numbers
never fought malta, but i've fought carnies a lot with my stalker and mm and haven't had much trouble with them
hell, even the longbow spec ops super drain grenade only drains like 80% of my end, leaving me enough to kill him (if it's just 1)