I'm a little disappointed.

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. You're kind of a dick, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hrmmm... hard for me to pick a side there. On the one hand, it was a pretty mean thing to say. But on the other, I5 destroyed my main Hero and thwarted me from making much progress in CoH which was also pretty mean.

You can disagree with a guy -- and even mildly dislike his product, or whatever -- without publically asking him to quit his freakin' job. The dude took time to (sort of) address some of our problems and concerns. Whether you like his answer or not (whether you're even satisfied with the answer or not), you can certainly be a lot more civil about it than demanding he get fired, or something.

Maybe it's just me, but that's in pretty poor taste.

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's just me, but that's in pretty poor taste.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not just you.

[ QUOTE ]
And, unfortunately, Chum Spray has been renamed to Bile Spray. Our powers guys’ felt that Chum was just too campy.

[/ QUOTE ]
"too campy"?! Have these people actually played the game?

Seriously though - Bile Spray sounds really, really naff compared to Chum Spray - you'd rather power names that make players feel nauseous than fun names that fit perfectly with the overall feel of the game?

Stand your ground man! Whose in charge over there anyway?

I dunno -- I find it telling that since States posted, the overwhelming bulk of the thread consists of direct replies to him.

Granted, it's no small function of the forum -- to facilititate communication between the playerbase and the Devs. But I can't help but sense examples of the berating and personal attacks provided above discourage that kind of interaction.

For what it's worth, States is a bigger man than I -- I have far less compunction telling people to go [censored] themselves sideways.

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno -- I find it telling that since States posted, the overwhelming bulk of the thread consists of direct replies to him.

Granted, it's no small function of the forum -- to facilititate communication between the playerbase and the Devs. But I can't help but sense examples of the berating and personal attacks provided above discourage that kind of interaction.

For what it's worth, States is a bigger man than I -- I have far less compunction telling people to go [censored] themselves sideways.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but that's what he said, just not with your language.

I feel something fundamental has altered Cryptic for the worst. No idea what and, frankly, I no longer care.


Cal2

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but that's what he said, just not with your language.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't particularly feel like parsing out States' post in detail -- but you're not very correct.

In fact, you're quite wrong.

Also, can I have your stuff?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but that's what he said, just not with your language.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't particularly feel like parsing out States' post in detail -- but you're not very correct.

In fact, you're quite wrong.

Also, can I have your stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh GAWD, how could you lower yourself to such a pathetic cliche?

But, sure, you can: once VSOH releases.

Cal2

No, really. Stuff. Now.

Also, the door hitting you on the way out and all that good stuff.

[ QUOTE ]
No, really. Stuff. Now.

Also, the door hitting you on the way out and all that good stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Flaming1, in all honesty, I expected something, anything from you more reflective of your laid-back insight. Or, at the very least, your intellect. I've read many posts of yours and was intrigued with your calm rationality. Not quite the same as Clintonian's, of course, but nevertheless cohesive and mutually respectful.

I've laid out above merely a fraction of my abiding antagonism with Statesman and his, what I feel, disasterous policies perpetrated on a game I've been following since it was merely a dark development forum years and years ago. Surely I deserve more of a rejoinder than: can I have your stuff?

Cal2

[ QUOTE ]
Surely I deserve more of a rejoinder than: can I have your stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, no.

Here's the skinny. Thanks for the kind words, but the rationality is useful for arguments of reason.

It simply doesn't stand up to problems of preference. I prefer Coke. You might prefer Pepsi. There's no rational discourse to broach that topic. You could go on and on about the reasons you prefer Pepsi to Coke, but that's simply extension of the essential subjectivity of the argument.

Blaming Statesman for the "disasterous policies perpetrated on a game I've been following since it was merely a dark development forum years and years ago" is aggressive, non-constructive and frankly inappropriate.

Nevermind the fact that the game's initial success are at least as attributable to him. Or that I, among other players, am actually having more fun now than ever in the game.

If you're not -- well, sorry. But you don't speak for me, or for anyone else in the playerbase. Conflating your argument is a falsehood.

I don't find your argument even remotely worthwhile to address its many points of inductive, rather than deductive logic, its fallacies, or its inappropriate presumptions.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Surely I deserve more of a rejoinder than: can I have your stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, no.

Here's the skinny. Thanks for the kind words, but the rationality is useful for arguments of reason.

It simply doesn't stand up to problems of preference. I prefer Coke. You might prefer Pepsi. There's no rational discourse to broach that topic. You could go on and on about the reasons you prefer Pepsi to Coke, but that's simply extension of the essential subjectivity of the argument.

Blaming Statesman for the "disasterous policies perpetrated on a game I've been following since it was merely a dark development forum years and years ago" is aggressive, non-constructive and frankly inappropriate.

Nevermind the fact that the game's initial success are at least as attributable to him. Or that I, among other players, am actually having more fun now than ever in the game.

If you're not -- well, sorry. But you don't speak for me, or for anyone else in the playerbase. Conflating your argument is a falsehood.

I don't find your argument even remotely worthwhile to address its many points of inductive, rather than deductive logic, it's fallacies, or it's inappropriate presumptions.

So, I'm telling you to go [censored] yourself sideways.

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet, you still fail to address my legitimate critique. Statesman, himself, acknowledged his role in the decisions I specifically denounce. How else can you critique such things but in an aggressive manner? You need not be personally insulting as you do so. It's the apex of civility to point out errors as politely as possible, keeping the claws sheathed as it were.

A fine distinction that apparently escapes you. Perhaps I've overestimated your abilities.

Cal2

I'm not bothering with you.

It's beneath me.

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's just me, but that's in pretty poor taste.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps it was in poor taste. But I cannot help but feel that he's brought it upon himself to an extent. Admittedly, however, my outlook is biassed.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not bothering with you.

It's beneath me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, whatever it is that's beneath you, apparently it's far more shallow than I was led to believe.

être de bonne humeur, mon cher


Cal2

"You need not be personally insulting as you do so. It's the apex of civility to point out errors as politely as possible, keeping the claws sheathed as it were. "

I sure like this idea but, our players believe powers and tactics are more horrible than cursing and lack of civility.

You and i can continue to try to set an example for these angry people but I haven't seemed to have any effect whatsoever.

My only prob with your post is you did what we are asking them not to do. You threw in a quick insulting jab at the end of your post. That defeats the purpose of showing civility mon.

[ QUOTE ]
"You need not be personally insulting as you do so. It's the apex of civility to point out errors as politely as possible, keeping the claws sheathed as it were. "

I sure like this idea but, our players believe powers and tactics are more horrible than cursing and lack of civility.

You and i can continue to try to set an example for these angry people but I haven't seemed to have any effect whatsoever.

My only prob with your post is you did what we are asking them not to do. You threw in a quick insulting jab at the end of your post. That defeats the purpose of showing civility mon.

[/ QUOTE ]

What can I say? I'm only an American. We can't help it.



Cal2

[ QUOTE ]
/violin

[/ QUOTE ]

God i hate people like this.

/e beats the [censored] out of you with your stupid violin

"What can I say? I'm only an American. We can't help it."

How can I say this nicely.....hmmm.
Are you from the North?
Down here, I was raised with Southern hospitality, maybe because we all had guns we had to be nice to each other. lol

[ QUOTE ]
"What can I say? I'm only an American. We can't help it."

How can I say this nicely.....hmmm.
Are you from the North?
Down here, I was raised with Southern hospitality, maybe because we all had guns we had to be nice to each other. lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Alas that I must disappoint you.

*hangs head in shame*

I'm a Southern Boy.

I confess that the internet has robbed me of my Southern manners. You're quite right to suggest this (extremely politely as you did).

Cal2

[ QUOTE ]
Down here, I was raised with Southern hospitality, maybe because we all had guns we had to be nice to each other.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can find guns most anywhere in America. Perhaps it's something else that keeps people from realizing it's better to shoot your own mouth off than to shoot off someone else's. Cue Deliverance banjo here.

[ QUOTE ]
There’s been a ton of discussion regarding Patron Power Pools, so I thought I’d at least give you a perspective from the design end.

When we release levels 41-50 in CoH, we quickly realized that these levels didn’t offer any new powers. Players would be choosing from powers that were already available. While extra powers are nice, it isn’t very interesting. So we asked ourselves what would players want? All Archetypes chafed under their limitations – Tankers had no range, Blasters no defense, etc. – so we thought we give each Archetype the ability to choose lesser versions of powers that would address their weaknesses. Unfortunately, new powers are incredibly art intensive. Instead of making new sets, we choose pre-existing powers and renamed them as Ancillary Power Pools.

During CoV development, I wanted to make sure that the game offered a different experience than CoH. One case of this was that CoV became far more focused on storyline and background than CoH was. We tried to create a vibrant villainous organization that players would want to be part of. For inspiration, I looked to the world of comic books, which are filled with cool, evil organizations. I also wanted our villain versions of “ancillary power pools” to be unique; with the emphasis on Arachnos, I decided to create the Patron system.

Many have complained that this hinders creativity and roleplaying. After all, not everyone wants to be a villain that works for Arachnos. Certainly, a large strength of the City franchise has always been its customizability. To a degree, the Patron powers somewhat inhibit this by compelling people into “working” for certain Arachnos agents. The powers also do not dovetail perfectly into current power sets.

What fascinates me is how new this discussion is to the MMP world. I’ve played lots of games over the years, and usually customization wasn’t that big of an issue. I won’t use any particular game as an example, but rather I’ll take D&D 1st edition to demonstrate a difference. Magic Users then couldn’t use swords. Just couldn’t. They couldn’t really wear armor, either. The major reason for this was balance: a sword wielding, armor wearing mage rendered any regular ole fighter pretty darn useless. There was certainly some grumbling – after all, didn’t Gandalf wield a sword? – but pretty much it’s been accepted. In fantasy games today (online and other), the same limitations continue to apply…When designing City of Heroes, I remember a lot of people telling me that it was just plain wrong to give people so many costume choices in the beginning. People wanted to earn individuality over time, not receive it. Yet, to this day, I think character creation is the single most praised element of the City.

If I were to wax philosophical for a moment – I wonder whether it’s the genre (super heroes), the medium (City of Heroes) or the nature of the internet which has led to a greater demand for individuality. MMP’s, for the most part, are simply direct descendants of D&D, as described above. The gameplay, the mechanics, have pretty much followed the same pattern for ALL computer RPG’s. There’s certainly some demand for customization in other games (as I read on their boards), but it’s never quite the same as it is here for CoH. Maybe it’s because super heroes, by definition, are unique; thus, to play a super hero game a player wants to have those choices. But then I look at the internet, where we demand customization even down to our e-mail address. No one wants to be given a particular address, we almost always choose our own “handles.” Heck, I use the same name in nearly every MMP game to this day, as if it were my own digital shadow. Hopefully, some academic will look for this in the future.

Positron and I will certainly keep this in mind for the future…oh, by the way, the reason that Electrical Power is reddish is so that it could mesh well with some Patron Powers. That was the intent, at least. And, unfortunately, Chum Spray has been renamed to Bile Spray. Our powers guys’ felt that Chum was just too campy.

[/ QUOTE ]

My issues with the patron pools are not just limited to the idea you wanted to introduce role playing elements that are going to be permanent. Though thats a big one. Its that 1st not all sets are getting the same attention to things that they need. Dominators for instance are getting basicly duplicates for the most part of powers that they can already take in some form or another. The pools for COV dont seem nearly as diverse as the aux pools in cov were. Secondly i am taking issue with the fact that over all its requiring my character to be in line with a NPC theme and not my theme.

In your post you mentioned taking inspiration from Comics and all the great villiany that exists in them. However if you truely track the popularity of comic villians i think your going to find its the most idividual characters that are the most popular. Spider-man has Venom, Captian America has the Red SKull, Fantastic Four has Dr Doom, Xmen have Appocolypse or Magneto. My point is that its very rare that anyone say "man did you see that generic thug from Red Skull's organization kick some major butt?"

The patron pools IMO turn all of us wanna be takin' over the world'ers into generic thug Mako1001019. Not just that, and let me say i dont role play my characters at all, but picking insperiation from the thugs of Arachnos is counter productive to my characters.

For example, my first character QuiJon is a energyX2 blasters. When epics came out he was already level 50. I took the force pool on day 1 of epics. I later resecped into the Fire pool cause i wanted the hold. But almost right away i started feeling that i hated the fire pool. Here was this character, that i loved, i worked 50 levels with, built him just as i wanted him, and now suddenly as a energy blaster he was running around on fire half the time. It just didnt feel like the same character anymore. I later took electric mastery, and later again went back to the force pool. He now feels right again. These powers wont allow for that. First none are themed to have similar effects to the powers in our classes. secondly even so, we cant experiment with them. If i go Mako i have to stay mako even if i hate it later on.

Your story/role playing philosphy has two holes, first off we are role playing villians, we want to be the big cheese, not work for one. secondly in the whole "to be a part of a great villianous orgnaization" thing, we will have spent 40 levels working for contacts which by the design of your own game, are giving us story lines and missions in many cases where were fighting against Arachnos and its purposes, to then just suddenly say "yes i want to be a good like thug now"

My understanding of the early game is that the Big A breaks us out of prision but then basicly leaves us on our own so we eventually decide to join him as a "destine one" and be a powerful ally. Unfortunately now, this system of Patron pools takes that choice away from us in the end. If this was the theme you were going for it would have been much more roleplayer ish to develop a faction system, where we could chose these patrons based on joining different organizations. Would have opened up a new aspect for PVP mass battles as well to have a system in place where waring villian factions are constantly struggling to over take each other.

Just my opinion but as you can see, i dont think this system emerses me any more in the game, but button holes me to only 1 story line......i break out.....i run around doing missions......i pick my Arachnos patron. There doesnt seem to be a option to pick anything else.

Shame shame. Don't let the yankee attitude get ya mon.
The Texan in me couldn't take it. lol

It's common nowadays. Manners, civility and respect are old and dying I'm afraid. I am a living anachronism.

Keep up the good fight mon!

I would rather be shot than listen to the type of abuse folks heap on each other nowadays. lol
heck, I would rather shoot them than hear it.
Now that is Southern. rofl

I would like to refrain from further dev-bashing for the sake of it. I don't agree with Statesman's position on the matter in the least - that's what I found disappointing to begin with. However, I'm far from asking for the guy's resignation or calling him names.

I've been called fanboy for less, and frankly, I might be. I just don't feel that the development team owe me anything. I don't feel entitled to making demands and pointing out errors, unless they're purely factological. "Accuracy is 50%" "No, it's not. Check again." "Oh, right. Fixed."

Anything else is personal perspective and opinion. And I've never been one to trump my own opinion, be it on other posters or the development team. If my opinion happens to differ from theirs, then I will do what I can to convince them. If I don't, then that just makes me like the game that little bit less. Enough of that and I won't like the game enough to keep paying for it, and I'll quit. It's as simple as that.

I don't hold grudges and I don't get angry over decisions, disagree with them though I may. In the end, I abandoned the notion that this would be the perfect game and that everything will be exactly as I wanted a long time ago. All it took was placing capes at level 20 to serve as a wake-up call that this isn't a super-happy-fun-place where all my dreams come true, but a reality that just happens to have lots of things I like.

In the end, being diasppointed, discussing it is all I can do. I don't feel entitled to the kind of ballance I want just because I pay 15$ a month. I can argue for it, and if I present a solid enough argument and get enough popular support, then that would present a point worthy of Dev attention and perhaps reconsideration.

Lo and behold, that's exactly what happened. I started a thread attempting to express my disappointment with the direction the game is heading in a civil and concise manner, people came to debate it and we got developr attention. It may not have been exactly the answer I wanted, but hey, it's an answer. We can't really do more than make our feelings known. Throwing fits and making demands doesn't really account for anything, and it's certainly not going to get us what we want.

I don't know, but I think that if we all calm down and discuss our problems and dislikes rationally and in a calm tone, then we could both make the forums a much more pleasant place to be, as well as actually improve our prospects for communication with the development team. They have proven time and time again that they are more willing to communicate where communication is appreciated, and less likely to communicate where communication is ambushed. And I can't blame them. I certainly wouldn't want to have anything to do with half the people on the boards.

Take that for what it's worth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.