[ QUOTE ]
The game is all about tactics and counters.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the tactics and counters required for the old Hurricane were abnormally specific when compared to the tactics and counters required for almost everything else. If you want the game to require more precise tactics and more specific counters, I'm all for it, so long as it's not JUST Hurricane. But you seemed to be happy with it being JUST Hurricane in that regard, and I don't agree with that.
I'm okay with just disagreeing on that matter. I'm not happy with MOST Archetypes being very, very general in what it takes to counter them, and one or two being substantially more specific. You seem to like it. That's fine.
[ QUOTE ]
What sort of nonsense. Nonsense such as viable counters? Nonsense such as maybe bringing some teammates to help stop this stormer that is most likely teamed?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nonsense such as needing pretty specific team mates. Against almost any other powerset, sure I'd need team mates at times, but almost any SORT of team mate would do. That's much, much less true of Hurricane, and that's what I felt was nonsense.
[ QUOTE ]
The repel and melee safe zone...
[/ QUOTE ]
Mobile safe zones you can fire from shouldn't exist. I don't agree with the existence of "safe zones" The sheer fact you'd CALL it that just reinforces my point. You're free to disagree, but I've got nothing further to say on the existence of mobile safe zones created by powers. I don't feel speaking about them strengthens your case.
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No one power should be able to control the battle field for one side or the other.
[/ QUOTE ]
i assure you, kid, if a stormer showed up in SC and started prancing around with nothing but his hurricane on he'd be ganked in seconds.
it takes more than hurricane to win a battle.
a lot more.
[ QUOTE ]
whoa I was expecting pong
actually if you are gonna nerf anything castle look at tk next cause its like.. annoying
the high accuracy of illusion (at least to my sr it seems high)
the damage output of a certain "rad/psi" defender
and then the stun from the rez of DA, which stuns through pretty much any mez protectionfor about 10 seconds
and um if you have a chance completely remove the following sets from pvp
TA, dark, poison, AR,
fire manipulation,
ice melee on tankers, axe, mace too
um...
ya
[/ QUOTE ]
wow... um... i think you just said everything i've been wanting to say. do you have espn or something?
On a more serious note... I've already PM'd Castle about Blind's accuracy/tohit vs /SR's DEF and he ignored it.
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Wait a second! What are you planning with Force Bubble? It repels. That's all it does. Taking away repel means it creates a big bubble that does absolutely nothing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right. That's why it's harder.
[/ QUOTE ]
How about making it a big bouble that debuffs damage? 
[/ QUOTE ]
No. Damage debuffs are borked in PvP. It has something to do with the game engine so the devs would have to rework too much in order to get them to work properly.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The game is all about tactics and counters.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the tactics and counters required for the old Hurricane were abnormally specific when compared to the tactics and counters required for almost everything else. If you want the game to require more precise tactics and more specific counters, I'm all for it, so long as it's not JUST Hurricane. But you seemed to be happy with it being JUST Hurricane in that regard, and I don't agree with that.
I'm okay with just disagreeing on that matter. I'm not happy with MOST Archetypes being very, very general in what it takes to counter them, and one or two being substantially more specific. You seem to like it. That's fine.
[ QUOTE ]
What sort of nonsense. Nonsense such as viable counters? Nonsense such as maybe bringing some teammates to help stop this stormer that is most likely teamed?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nonsense such as needing pretty specific team mates. Against almost any other powerset, sure I'd need team mates at times, but almost any SORT of team mate would do. That's much, much less true of Hurricane, and that's what I felt was nonsense.
[ QUOTE ]
The repel and melee safe zone...
[/ QUOTE ]
Mobile safe zones you can fire from shouldn't exist. I don't agree with the existence of "safe zones" The sheer fact you'd CALL it that just reinforces my point. You're free to disagree, but I've got nothing further to say on the existence of mobile safe zones created by powers. I don't feel speaking about them strengthens your case.
[/ QUOTE ]
i dunno...overcoming hurricane requires any one of the following:
1) ranged damage
2) melee damage (plus repel resistance)
3) ranged mez
4) melee mez (plus repel resistance)
5) TK
6) Detention Field
7) Sonic Cages
8) Force Bubble
9) Immobilize (to pin the storm in one spot to prevent debuffing)
10) Stacked Slows (to render the storm virtually immobile)
11) TP Foe (to remove the storm from those he/she is protecting)
12) Wormhole (see TP foe)
there are other powers that reduce particular aspects of the hurricane's effectiveness or allow a user to overcome some of it's debuffs. they include:
13) TP Self (to kite the storm)
14) SS (to kite the storm)
15) to-hit buffs (to hit through the debuff) - availabe via the leadership pool and in various sets via aim, power build up, FA, etc.
16) repel resistance (to melee the storm) - available to a variety of sets and via kinetic's ID
and there are probably a lot more that i forgot.
i'm sorry, man.
but as i look at this list of viable counters to storm, i'm not convinced it requires overly specific sets.
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Actually, the only thing I really wanted to change in this mess was the ability for Repel Fields to effectively trap a player against geometry in Base Raids.
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Then why not add repel resistance to break frees? Seems like a more elegant solution.
[/ QUOTE ]
There already is, it takes 4 small purples to walk through TK. I believe that Hurricane was the same, but probably is much less now. I wish they would have added a fast surpression timer for Repel rather than modifying the powers.
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I've been saying that since they started making threads about nerfing Hurricane.
Suppression is good enough for every status effect but Repel? [censored]?
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The game is all about tactics and counters.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the tactics and counters required for the old Hurricane were abnormally specific when compared to the tactics and counters required for almost everything else. If you want the game to require more precise tactics and more specific counters, I'm all for it, so long as it's not JUST Hurricane. But you seemed to be happy with it being JUST Hurricane in that regard, and I don't agree with that.
I'm okay with just disagreeing on that matter. I'm not happy with MOST Archetypes being very, very general in what it takes to counter them, and one or two being substantially more specific. You seem to like it. That's fine.
[ QUOTE ]
What sort of nonsense. Nonsense such as viable counters? Nonsense such as maybe bringing some teammates to help stop this stormer that is most likely teamed?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nonsense such as needing pretty specific team mates. Against almost any other powerset, sure I'd need team mates at times, but almost any SORT of team mate would do. That's much, much less true of Hurricane, and that's what I felt was nonsense.
[ QUOTE ]
The repel and melee safe zone...
[/ QUOTE ]
Mobile safe zones you can fire from shouldn't exist. I don't agree with the existence of "safe zones" The sheer fact you'd CALL it that just reinforces my point. You're free to disagree, but I've got nothing further to say on the existence of mobile safe zones created by powers. I don't feel speaking about them strengthens your case.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's been my argument all along with Hurricane "tactics". Haveing to get so and so on your team, change your travel powers, spend inf on web and strun grenades that don't work, are specifics. There is no other power(except bubbles) where you are required to "get a team with a blaster or someone with mez" to take out ONE defensive power. Even Mog, Hide after any attack, Phase Shift, Quantum Flight, Inv, etc all drop when used or their click duration expires and then has a long recharge. Hurricane needs to be brought more in line with this powers along with bubbles.
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No one power should be able to control the battle field for one side or the other.
[/ QUOTE ]
i assure you, kid, if a stormer showed up in SC and started prancing around with nothing but his hurricane on he'd be ganked in seconds.
it takes more than hurricane to win a battle.
a lot more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not true. Stormie comes into zone, every hero in the zone seems to run to the stormie with hurricane turned on to protect them ALL.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The game is all about tactics and counters.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the tactics and counters required for the old Hurricane were abnormally specific when compared to the tactics and counters required for almost everything else. If you want the game to require more precise tactics and more specific counters, I'm all for it, so long as it's not JUST Hurricane. But you seemed to be happy with it being JUST Hurricane in that regard, and I don't agree with that.
I'm okay with just disagreeing on that matter. I'm not happy with MOST Archetypes being very, very general in what it takes to counter them, and one or two being substantially more specific. You seem to like it. That's fine.
[/ QUOTE ]
ok so counter to melee and blappers could easily be other things. but let's see how storm is designed. all of it's powers are close range, and hurricane is a tool to help them survive that close combat. Ask any stormer how long they would survive in close quarters against an /nrg or /elec blapper? My guess would be like 2 seconds tops. Sure there are other counters to x, y, and z, so why am i talking about 'just hurricane'? Because this thread is about hurricane?
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What sort of nonsense. Nonsense such as viable counters? Nonsense such as maybe bringing some teammates to help stop this stormer that is most likely teamed?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nonsense such as needing pretty specific team mates. Against almost any other powerset, sure I'd need team mates at times, but almost any SORT of team mate would do. That's much, much less true of Hurricane, and that's what I felt was nonsense.
[/ QUOTE ]
I mentioned every single archetype available to the villains, and yes they have powersets that can easily neutralize a stormer. I don't see anything 'specific' in saying that counters are available across the entire spectrum of villain archetypes.
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The repel and melee safe zone...
[/ QUOTE ]
Mobile safe zones you can fire from shouldn't exist. I don't agree with the existence of "safe zones" The sheer fact you'd CALL it that just reinforces my point. You're free to disagree, but I've got nothing further to say on the existence of mobile safe zones created by powers. I don't feel speaking about them strengthens your case.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not really a safe zone, and perhaps that was a bad way to describe it. I just try to explain things in simple terms that everyone can understand. So call hurricane a shield against melee. It's not a safe zone by any means, considering that there are 3 tanker/brute defensive sets that can bypass the repel. 2 for scrappers, 2 for stalkers. Any build with a kinetics ally can get through hurricane. vengeance buffs... all of a sudden this safe zone can easily be breached by joe blow and they'll be right in your face wailing on you. Safe zone? hardly. I'm glad you have nothing else to say. Your exaggerations on storm summoning is inaccurate at best. I also like how you quote fragments of my posts and take them in a whole different direction. if you're gonna quote what i say, take the whole statement
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I don't feel ANY build should be able to shut down any other reasonable PvP build - ever.
[/ QUOTE ]
Once again, every time I see someone post this so called complete AT balance view as justification for a nerf (such as with hurricane), I am forced to point out yet again -- "Just how the heck is my Kinetics defender supposed to be balanced against a scrapper or tank, especially tanks with energy melee?"
In this view, I should be able to stand toe-to-toe against these ATs with my defender! I sure don't see the devs making that dream/curse a reality.
If people honestly believe that everyone should be able to counter every power in the game then we will be left with 1 on 1 matches where we can only use brawl!
I don't even understand any of this. Why does everyone have to get jacked for pvp, because " 
it's not fair! "?? Why cant you just let the hurricaine folks pin their folks against the wall, let the stalker folks sneak up on people and slice them in half, let the controlling folks hold people like they do in the rest of the game, and let everybody just be what they thought they'd be when they signed up for their powers? We choose the powers we think are best, there's a reason for that. It is not so that the game will come along and make everybody the same!!
Dark Fantasm
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I don't even understand any of this. Why does everyone have to get jacked for pvp, because " it's not fair! "?? Why cant you just let the hurricaine folks pin their folks against the wall, let the stalker folks sneak up on people and slice them in half, let the controlling folks hold people like they do in the rest of the game, and let everybody just be what they thought they'd be when they signed up for their powers? We choose the powers we think are best, there's a reason for that. It is not so that the game will come along and make everybody the same!!
Dark Fantasm
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Agreed. And unnerf Regen so PermMog could come back and Instant Healing is a toggle again. :-b I'm all for the Golden Age of CoH.
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Wait a second! What are you planning with Force Bubble? It repels. That's all it does. Taking away repel means it creates a big bubble that does absolutely nothing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right. That's why it's harder.
[/ QUOTE ]
While you're checking Hurricane, mind taking a look at the range debuff? That power's kind of a pet peeve of mine, but in the arena my Scrapper can't be in range to use melee powers on people with Hurricane doing unless she uses TP Foe and queues an attack, no matter how I try to joust with Fly or how close to them I am.
Also the ToHit Debuff. Might be working as intended, but it /seems/ ridiculously high.
Jerk 4 Life
In brightest day, in blackest night/No evil shall escape my sight/Let those who worship evil's might/Beware my power ... Green Lantern's light!/(Meowth, that's right!)
My Arcs: #4827: Earth For Humans. #6391: Young Love.
Look, people, repel is fine. It's important. Needed even. But there's a difference between "repel" and "can't touch me with a ten foot pole and eighteen feet of telescoping presentation pointers" (as a side note, with laser pointers does anyone use those anymore?)
Anyway, repel should push the target away, but any off-axis movement should be possible. I always thought that all repels should tick a little to prevent pinning, but then again, that's why they sell TP temp powers in the arena and PvP zones. All I want is for things to be fair. If 'cane makes you untouchable, give "Kin-repel" and the FF power the same. Otherwise not. Indeed, 'cane has so many other effects that the powers in the other sets seem very under powered.
And I'm good either way, balance down the 'cane or up the others. If you bring it down (and I like the fact that I get one shot at a 'caner now), you make my scrapper and stalker happy. Bring repel up and you make my Fire/Kin troller happy (Lord knows she needs the love now...)
Mint
CoH: Mint Condition, Operatives Flame, Iron and Mist
CoV: Operative War, Billy Ray Payne
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Castle,what are the odds you can change it so that if we slot knockback enhancements we can bring the force of the repel back,atleast that way we are paying for it again with slots we wouldnt otherwise need put in.
As it stands right now I cant effectively protect my team even with multiple CM's and fort on me. Pvp was tough before,and sometimes frustrating depending on the opposition,but now? It's just plain frustrating,the set is now almost gimp,I'm not sure what you see in the future of this set,but if its anything like it is right now,just say it now so I can make MY plans accordingly. At the very least rewrite the power set so the debuff tick and the repel tick are seperate and let the debuff work at a faster rate to help protect us more instantly when a melee toon comes to deal us a instant death blow.
Just keep this in mind while you work on the power Castle,we CAN NO LONGER protect our teams in pvp.
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That's my biggest problem also. We don't exactly bring much to a team unless we can protect them in some way. Last I checked my buffs aren't yet implemented and my debuffs all seem to be AoE. But....... I have a killer single target heal that I can't use to help myself. My teammies practically fall all over themselves to come get some endurance drain protection for PvP. Goodness knows the endurance draining powers need to be toned down again significantly in PvP!
The sarcasm should be getting thick right about now.
If it weren't for Snowstorm I would be giving up on the set altogether. Even then when put on a smart player it gets me in as much trouble as it causes him sometimes.
Someone earlier stated that every other power with Storm is great. Yup - for PvE they are all pretty good. But PvP isn't exactly the same thing as we all know.
Defenders need to be able to defend.
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I don't feel ANY build should be able to shut down any other reasonable PvP build - ever.
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Once again, every time I see someone post this so called complete AT balance view as justification...
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not justifying anything, I'm making a general statement on what I'd like to see. I'm not really in a position to justify a change to City of Heroes' code, given I have precisely zero input into what gets changed and why.
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ok so counter to melee and blappers could easily be other things. but let's see how storm is designed. all of it's powers are close range...
[/ QUOTE ]
All of Storm's powers are close ranged?
-Oxygen Boost: ranged.
-Snowstorm: ranged.
-Freezing Rain: ranged.
-Tornado: ranged (and it chases people around!)
-Lightning Storm: ranged (but random).
I'll count Gale as close ranged just because I don't KNOW the range off the top of my head. So Gale, Hurricane, Steamy Mist, and Thunderclap are close ranged. That's hardly all of them, in fact it's not even most of them. What constitutes a long ranged power in your mind, such that Storm's attacks are all close ranged? Do you want sniper range on Freezing Rain or something? I'm not even attacking you, I'm just confused, because last I saw these things weren't even close to melee ranged powers.
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Ask any stormer how long they would survive in close quarters against an /nrg or /elec blapper?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ask any Dominator the same thing. This is hardly an issue unique to Storm Summoners, surely a more global fix makes more sense.
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I mentioned every single archetype available to the villains, and yes they have powersets that can easily neutralize a stormer.
[/ QUOTE ]
If it's so easy, who cares how good or bad Hurricane is? It's casually neutralized, and thus doesn't even enter into play. How can you be SO upset about Hurricane being changed -- moreover, h ow can it be the CORNERSTONE of your survivability and defense -- if it's so easily and completely neutralizable?
Fact is, we both know it's not quite that simple, which is why it WAS such an important part of the Storm set to you; if it was so casually brushed aside as you describe, you'd hardly miss it, for the same reason I'm not exactly worried about my Mind Dominator's Mass Hypnosis power being nerfed for PvP. That fact doesn't bear further discussion, it's a clear and obvious truth in my eyes Hurricane was different in that regard. If you disagree, that's fine.
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It's not really a safe zone, and perhaps that was a bad way to describe it.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, I'd say it was an excellent way to describe it. You spoke truthfully and directly from the vantage-point of someone who has not one, but two Storm Summoning characters in their signature. You called it a safe zone because you recognized from quite a bit of experience that's what it essentially amounted to for the most part; sure, a particularly competent melee player could wheedle out an occasional attack, but you're good enough to keep it together despite that, and overall the hurricane area was very, very safe from melee as a result.
Backpedalling on that terminology now because it doesn't suit your case, while understandable, isn't convincing. I won't press that issue further, because I don't want to come off as being hostile about it, but I think you put it quite correctly the first time, with your so put simple terms.
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I also like how you quote fragments of my posts and take them in a whole different direction. if you're gonna quote what i say, take the whole statement
[/ QUOTE ]
I quote what I am responding to RyStorm, while refraining from quoting what I feel warrants no response. I do this in an effort to keep my posts shorter and more readable, while at the same time clearly highlighting what I am responding to. I'm sorry it bothers you; if my posting style irritates you, I'd rather abstain than piss you off. Thanks for the conversation.
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No one power should be able to control the battle field for one side or the other.
[/ QUOTE ]
i assure you, kid, if a stormer showed up in SC and started prancing around with nothing but his hurricane on he'd be ganked in seconds.
it takes more than hurricane to win a battle.
a lot more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not true. Stormie comes into zone, every hero in the zone seems to run to the stormie with hurricane turned on to protect them ALL.
[/ QUOTE ]
i'm sure they're there healing that storm and buffing that storm as well.
and there you have it.
more than one power in effect.
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All of Storm's powers are close ranged?
[/ QUOTE ]
yes.
-Oxygen Boost: a heal. well ok, let's call this a ranged ability for the sake of argument
-Snowstorm: toggle debuff, can be easily broken by anyone with SJ
-Freezing Rain: location AoE. The mechanics of this is nothing like a targeted ranged attack. good luck hitting any leap froggers with this. Freezing rain often times is often to shield yourself with it to debuff those who are on a collision course with you
-Tornado: you even put tornado here? yeah, it doesn't go farther than like 20 feet of the master, lol. A summon power, hardly what I'd call long range
-Lightning Storm: summon once again. easily negated by simply moving away from it. it's not like i can shoot someone with lightning storm, so no this is not a 'ranged attack'. Like tornado this power is best used in close quarters.
all in all, storm is about being effective up close. the fact you fail to even know the basic mechanics of storm really tells me you don't have any experience with the set, yet you like to criticize it and say how it should be. Please do not talk about things you know nothing or very little about.
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I'll count Gale as close ranged just because I don't KNOW the range off the top of my head. So Gale, Hurricane, Steamy Mist, and Thunderclap are close ranged. That's hardly all of them, in fact it's not even most of them. What constitutes a long ranged power in your mind, such that Storm's attacks are all close ranged? Do you want sniper range on Freezing Rain or something? I'm not even attacking you, I'm just confused, because last I saw these things weren't even close to melee ranged powers.
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gale is actually the only targeted ranged power other than o2 boost in the set. very situational and very limited mainly because everyone takes acrobatics, making it completely useless in most cases. definition of 'ranged' in this game would be to target and click, and the power fires off. The categories would be officially classified as follows: ranged (gale, o2 boost), pbAoE (hurricane, thunder clap, steamy mist), toggle debuff (snow storm), summon (tornado, lightning storm), location AoE (freezing rain)
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Ask any stormer how long they would survive in close quarters against an /nrg or /elec blapper?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ask any Dominator the same thing. This is hardly an issue unique to Storm Summoners, surely a more global fix makes more sense.
[/ QUOTE ]
sure, just because one set is disadvantaged against an FoTM means you gotta [censored] on someone else? and no, this game no longer needs global fixes. it's time the devs started fine tuning the sets if they want balance.
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I mentioned every single archetype available to the villains, and yes they have powersets that can easily neutralize a stormer.
[/ QUOTE ]
If it's so easy, who cares how good or bad Hurricane is? It's casually neutralized, and thus doesn't even enter into play. How can you be SO upset about Hurricane being changed -- moreover, h ow can it be the CORNERSTONE of your survivability and defense -- if it's so easily and completely neutralizable?
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don't even give me that crap. you know as well as any other, every set for any AT has a signature type power. How would you like it if Integration only protected against mezzes 1/4 of the time, or instant healing's heal rate was reduced by 1/4? Wouldn't be much of a regen huh? Oh but the rest of your set still works! yeah, I'm sure you wouldn't see it that way The application of storm powers works in a way that they are most effective up close. Hurricane was their defense and gave them a prayer of staying alive while doing this. And about counters, there are a bunch. the fact you're not willing to go and find them or apply them is nobody's fault but your own.
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It's not really a safe zone, and perhaps that was a bad way to describe it.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, I'd say it was an excellent way to describe it. You spoke truthfully and directly from the vantage-point of someone who has not one, but two Storm Summoning characters in their signature. You called it a safe zone because you recognized from quite a bit of experience that's what it essentially amounted to for the most part; sure, a particularly competent melee player could wheedle out an occasional attack, but you're good enough to keep it together despite that, and overall the hurricane area was very, very safe from melee as a result.
Backpedalling on that terminology now because it doesn't suit your case, while understandable, isn't convincing. I won't press that issue further, because I don't want to come off as being hostile about it, but I think you put it quite correctly the first time, with your so put simple terms.
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Sure, if you think hurricane is some kind of god mode, i would encourage you to go ahead and make a stormer, and when you hit 50, go PvP on test arena night. I would put a thousand down that you'd get smoked like nobody's business. Using storm summoning is much more challenging when you are up against top tier players, and if you don't believe me, then go for it. I guarantee that the majority of experienced pvper's out there are not in disagreement with me. Trust me, if something is overpowered, I would be the first to tell you it is. I have a spines/regen, that's overpowered. I got an Ice/Cold. That build is pretty juiced too. The stormers, nope. I'd say viable, but to call them overpowered would be insane.
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I quote what I am responding to RyStorm, while refraining from quoting what I feel warrants no response. I do this in an effort to keep my posts shorter and more readable, while at the same time clearly highlighting what I am responding to. I'm sorry it bothers you; if my posting style irritates you, I'd rather abstain than piss you off. Thanks for the conversation.
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Well respond to the statement going in the same direction as I'm going, don't try to switch it around like I'm implying something else.
Poor stormies. They went from one of my favorite tough targets to just another squishy.
bummer.
It was easy to get through Hurricane before the nerf with the myriad of ToHit Buffs available, but now it's just ridiculously easy. No reason to play my Storm Defender anymore.
I have to back Rystorm on her assessment of Storm powers. Yes, it may not be easily understood but all I can tell you, and maybe other Stormers too, is that when I played PvE, I was much more devastating on the indoor mishes. Outside, things just get too spread out and too chaotic. Tornado goes after a minion, bounces him a couple times leaving you with 2 other foes right next to you, you cast Lightning Storm and have no wall to keep them from being knocked back too far out of range, if you don't manage Hurricane you find yourself surrounded instead of having nicely packed AoE kills, Snowstorm is less likely to hit a full mob, etc.
If I'm understanding correctly, this is where Rystorm is coming from not just the strict definition of ranged vs melee.
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The game is all about tactics and counters.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the tactics and counters required for the old Hurricane were abnormally specific when compared to the tactics and counters required for almost everything else. If you want the game to require more precise tactics and more specific counters, I'm all for it, so long as it's not JUST Hurricane. But you seemed to be happy with it being JUST Hurricane in that regard, and I don't agree with that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Team
Inspirations
Tactics
Temp Powers
Any of these or any combination of them will help overcome Hurricane. Can I complain about being mezzed from a Dominator and have absolutely nothing to counter it as well. I fail to see how it is any different from Hurricane. I would be told to carry Break Frees, fine you carry Accuracies. I would be told to get an Empath for Clear Mind or another defender with similar abilites, fine you can get a Corrupter or Dominator. If I kept getting hit from above from flying characters because I only had SS, there would be no love as people would say its PvP, you know all the powers and should pay more attention or don't stand still for so long as examples of different tactics.
As much as you see the need for the change Malrathad, Kidquik, and whoever, I see just as much need to leave it alone.
As it is, I feel I should now ask for nerfing of Dominator powers. You say people are helpless in a corner by being pinned. I am just as helpless when the Dominator mezzes me. Any tactic you come up with(the aforementioned team, tactics, inspirations and temp powers) think carefully on providing the solution as it just may apply to my Dominator problem thus marginalizing the complaints about Hurricane.
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Wait a second! What are you planning with Force Bubble? It repels. That's all it does. Taking away repel means it creates a big bubble that does absolutely nothing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right. That's why it's harder.
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I play a Force Field defender, and it seems to me that alot of folks dont take the earlier and seemingly inferior "Repulsion Field" because they know that they plan to get Force Bubble later on anyway. Unlike Attack powers where you can have more than one power that does damage and thats ok, it seems redundant to have two Toggle repel powers. How about giving folks a reason to take Repulsion Field by fixing Force Bubble and NOT have it also have repel as an effect.
Off the top of my head, tossing out an idea: Since Force Bubble is the final power in the Force Field set, it seems like it should be the ultimate expression of protection that the Force Fielder can muster. Hence, instead of it's current function, how about making it a PBAoE Personal Force Field effect on allies, with the same drawbacks as having PFF on. This wouldn't be overpowered (that I can see), but it would be something new and different and still be in keeping with the Force Field concept.
Basically, any ally within the radius of Force Bubble would have "Personal Force Field" affecting them, along with the nice +defense boost, they would also have all the drawbacks such as not being able to affect anything outside of yourself. It would now turn into more of an "oh crap" power than it currently is. If being able to maintain the power indefinitely is deemed "too good", then some ways to balance it would be to increase its base recharge like the Mastermind Version of Personal Force Field, or have it's endurance use ramp up over time like the Peace Bringer Quantum Flight, or just put a timer on it, etc. There are many ways to limit it without removing it's benefits completely. But like the previous poster commented, currently all it does is repel, which I just want to point out that Force Field power set already has a repel power, do we really need two? Who do you know that takes both? Although something occured to me, if they increase the time between repel ticks on each repel power, would running both simultaneously now create the same problem that the Devs tried to fix in the first place? Imagine running TWO repel powers at once and getting double the repel ticks. 
"All that crap is grey to me, no XP." - Positron 5/15/05 8:36am . . . The world stopped and silence ensued except for the sound of a crying infant off in the distance.
"Everyone needs to chill the hell out." - BackAlleyBrawler 11/13/08 3:26pm . . . Geeks around the world stopped and blinked.
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I don't want Stormers to be useless, sitting ducks.
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Yet you requested a nerf to a power you describe as the "only power they have that even mildly intimidated you"?
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Defenders and Dominators in particular really get the shaft in many ways, and that's not conducive to fun play.
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Yet you, an EM/regen stalker, cry for nerfs to defender sets?
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I'd be happy with anything that didn't demand certain character builds had to go to pretty extreme lengths simply to meaningfully affect them.
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Isn't that a funny quote coming from a stalker?
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I've tried these things and succeeded, but I also feel I'm an above average player in terms of reflexes, capability, and computer processing speed. I am not saying, nor have ever said, Hurricane was an obstacle that could not be overcome. I just didn't feel like the specifics it took to overcome it's repel feature were in line with any other power in the game. It was an odd ball in my eyes, and not in a good way. If there were many more powers that required similar specifics to reasonably and reliably combat, I may have felt differently
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Interpretations: "I can kill storm users while they have hurricane up, but that's simply because I'm more skilled than most people. That being said, they were still an inconvenience on the battle field, and take a disproportionately long time to kill compared to everyone else who drops within seconds."
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if my posting style irritates you, I'd rather abstain than piss you off.
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Actually, it is one of the worst "posting styles" I've seen on these forums. You're deliberately disrespectful and antagonistic, and then pretend as though you don't mean to be.
Here's my suggestion in how to fairly nerf hurricane:
Keep Hurricane a toggle. Give it it's prenerf powers in PvP. However.. Make it have no control of movement. When it's turned on, it makes the toon have no ability to control movement and it will move on it's own without control by the player using it. Sort of like a REAL hurricane would do. Their movements are sporadic and unpredictable (See Katrina). This way all the toons hiding behind it will have to work to keep up with the Stormies random movements and the Stormie will sometimes have to drop Hurricane or fall off a buildings or wander into enemy mobs. Many times toons are tossed into enemy mobs with Hurricane on purpose. Why not make the power like so many other powers that were nerfed and be not so God like? Make it a nice power to have on while it's going, but like many other powers, it can have consequences in using too(see click powers that drop and you have no End, your toggles drop, or you health drops when click expires). I think this would be a good way to make the power be similiar to ther other "uh oh, my clickie just dropped and I need to run for a minute or die". It would require all toons hiding behind hurricane have to do more then stand behind hurricane and do ranged attacks or just sit there behind it. Even stalkers have to work to AS or hit ATs if they have IT Goggles or tactics applied to them. Hurricane shouldn't be given able to be turned on and that's the only power the stormy really uses in PvP except their travel power when it drops. They have an assortment of other powers to use beside one bread and butter power. No one power should be able to control the battle field for one side or the other. I think this would be a fair way to keep hurricane unnerfed power wise, but make it a power like so many other powers that can also have it's disadvantages in using.