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Why do people keep acting like the Stormers are NPCs with no awareness or ability to use tactics of their own? They're not helpless, they're presumably intelligent players reacting to what's around them.
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Why do people keep acting like they have to stay huddled and all get hit by hurricane at the same time? Why do people feel that just because they rolled an EM stalker, that they should have the right to kill anything with their easy button? So 1 build managed to shut yours down, bring a friend who's build shuts theirs down. there is a good selection of corrupters, dominators, masterminds, hell, even stalker and brute builds that can give a stormer a bad day.
pretty soon with all these nerfs to make debuffs/repels ineffective, all we are going to be seeing soon is nothing but buff and damage builds. why make anything else other than emp and ice/nrg blasters. It's been going in that direction for quite some time, and all the changes the devs are making, it's only encouraging that even further.
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My only problem with all this, Castle, is sort of a general concern with the state of PvP now and in the future.
CoX PvP has seemed to me-- and it seemed to me the devs were implying it to be true in the past-- that CoX PvP is balanced around TEAM PvP, not Solo work. This seems to me to be just the latest in a line of changes that slowly chip away at that to make the game more fun for people that want to solo-pwn every one and everything.
Maybe it's just me, but I LIKED the fact that intially, there were ATs/powersets that could chew up another AT for breakfast, but stand no chance against another one. Stalkers, one-shotting, Hurricane-pinning... NONE of these are major problems for a decently-outfitted team working together. If a Caner pins you, You get a Corr or Blaster to blast the heck out of them, problem solved. If the caner's team provides better support than yours does... well, clearly the more organized, better PvP players have won. If you're solo... well, better rethink your strategy. Heck, Hurricane... there's lots of ways to deal with it, if you bother to team. Corrupters, masterminds, Dommies all have range, Dommies can just hold the Stormie and shut off the cane so you can beat the tar out of them, and /EA brutes, at least, and maybe /EA Stalkers can just wade right through the Repel to beat the heck out of them. ASes can be dealt with with Tactics and /SR scrappers and so on, massive damage can be turned by taunting tanks that can take it... point is, there's a lot of ways already existing to deal with these problems without taking the teeth out of sets.
Anyway. My concern here is that we're slowly moving away from the team-based nature of PvP balance that actually makes it FUN for a lot of us that don't usually enjoy PvP, and putting it back in the hands of the soloist "I pwn j00 all" mentalities. I worry that changes like this end up just frustrating people that take the sets, and they leave PvP, maybe at best roll a character "better suited" to PvP, and the experience slowly funnels down to a bunch of Stalkers and Brutes and a bunch of scrappers and maybe tanks beating on each other all day. What fun *that* would be... 
I'm not saying it's going to happen. But I think it could, with the direction PvP changes have been going.
PS: I am a soloist in PvP who occassionally teams. I find the teams the most fun, but I like the challenge of solo work. I expect to get my butt handed to me on a platter regularly. And yes, i do prefer it that way-- it gives me something to hone skills against. I'd rather find ways around Cane pinning than remove it, as it ultimately makes me a better player, and happier for the PvP experience.
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You have obviously not been on the opposing end of teams with multiple storm trollers/defenders on auto follow, while the person they are following weaves in and out of a large two - three team group of enemies.
I have, and I can say that no team can/could sufficiently stop the stormer with the lingering -range debuff that made any ranged attack drop to no accuracy. Sure he might die, but not often enough to turn the tides in favor of the opposers. You can't kill a moving stormer without range, and can't attack with range when the stormer constantly debuffs you.
This was a major issue for my SG in SC on virtue, and is one of th main reasons I have not set foot in one of our regular PvP zone events (which took place 3-4 times a week earlier this year, before we started getting the storm sweep "strategy" pulled on us) for over 2 months.
PvP is very enjoyable with teamwork, but having a stormer on AF, and significantly abusing the debuff and status affects makes any teamwork on the opposing end a chore and extremely unnatractive.
/em salute to the devs for finally fixing this, I just hope it's as great as it sounds.
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problem is this isn't what they were trying to fix.
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Wait a second! What are you planning with Force Bubble? It repels. That's all it does. Taking away repel means it creates a big bubble that does absolutely nothing.
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That's probably why Castle mentioned how the balancing job on the other repel powers is much more difficult 
What's funny is that it's only real use for force bubble is as a control to pin folks in corners and let loose with all the other KB powers in FF. There's really not much reason to use FB out in the open; few teams like having their mobs spread out that far, and an awful lot of the defender's attacks don't have that much range.
I think it's going to be a howler to see how the devs are going to handle nerfing force bubble; I mean, you gotta work hard to make one of the least used powers in one of the rarest sets in CoH even less appealing.
Then again, maybe the devs will surprise us and, horror of horrors, make FB useful as something other than a control.
Since Hurricane is so easily countered by any AT that can fight at range, and the nerf calls didn't appear to be coming from heroes who found themselves helpless against Hurricane in Warburg, I have to assume that most of the nerf calls came from Stalkers and Brutes. Since the pvp stalker population is so much larger than the pvp brute population, I'll draw the conclusion that the most complaints about hurricane came from stalkers, and more specifically those without ranged attacks.
Unfortunately, with Energy Melee being widely known as one of the most damaging primaries for an AT that has the highest kill/death ratio (by a ridiculous margin), the above group amounts to a significantly large population of complaining people.
And since EM stalkers can kill just about anything in under 10 seconds, it's very frustrating for them not to be able kill a hurricane user on their first pass.
Maybe I misunderstood a previous post from the devs, or they've just decided to go in a different direction than I was expecting. They said that stalkers kill/death ratio was significantly higher than any other AT in the pvp zones (or something to that effect), so I kinda figured they would be making moves to lower that kill/death ratio. Instead they significantly nerf a power that's primary use in pvp zones is stalker protection. A nerf that will lead to fewer stormers in pvp zones using the now reduced effectiveness Hurricane power, and another increase for the stalker kill/death ratio .
Is it not completely obvious why some stalkers are so happy about this change or felt it was "needed"?
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Because if all a power is good for is pinning... and you nerf that... it's no good.
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I agree, that is all force bubble is really good for. Hurricane has other aspects that still make it useful. Changing the repel of force bubble will just make THE TOP FORCE FIELD POWER useless. I don't see what the fuss is about antways. Castle is talking about someone being pinned up on base raids. Well, that a SG function, call for help, unless you are in a SG of one raiding for some reason. Also one mez attack drops the Force Bubble. Lord knows all most everyone 40+ has a mez attack these days.
My personal "ideal" definition of balance in this game is a mixed team with a variety of ATs using a variety of powersets VS the same type of team. Each team has a somewhat equal chance of beating the other. The deciding factor in this battle is player skill and ingenuity and, to a much lesser extent, power selection.
The PvP we have now isn't anything like that. At all.
Just reading this post (and several others) makes this blatantly obvious. We have the "Hardcore Test PvP" crowd telling us that such-and-such a power is easily countered by such-and-such a power. If you don't have it, you lose. How is that balance? Better yet, how is that fun? If you absolutely need any specific powerset, or power, for your team to stand a chance, then the system is borked. There are several of these examples in this thread... and every other "Nerf XX" thread in this forum.
The changes the Devs have made in the last few months are moving the PvP in this game closer to "my" ideal sense of balance. I don't think it will ever truly get there though. There's too much variety for this to ever be possible.
The changes made to Hurricane are a step in the right direction, but are a "tad" too harsh. I think they'll see that (hopefully) and adjust it as needed.
Regardless, the PvP in this game should not be balanced by what the "hardcore" folks do. What we have now is PvP which requires certain powers at the exclusion of several powersets, and to some extent entire ATs. This is a huge turn-off. That's not balance. That's not even fun.
EDIT to clarify: I'm talking about powersets and ATs, not slotting.
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At this point the tactic is getting pretty convoluted and WAY away from the sort of reliability that is required to really say, "Psh, just do this!" as you seemed to be saying.
I'm not implying or asserting that it's impossible to you as you described. I've done it, heck I've done it without teleport at all. BUT, it takes the Stormer actively screwing up for it to work, even if that screw up is standing in one place too long for auras (which you don't need to remain immobile long for at all), and that's assuming you're somehow in perfect awareness mode, completely ready to activate this pattern of powers the split second you see an Empath aura go off, to use your example. That's clearly not the sort of thing the Developers want to demand of their playerbase, as is evinced by changes like this.
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If a Stormer is my bounty, I will be waiting for the perfect moment and I will have everything ready for the second they stop moving. I understand what you're trying to say... but when I'm in Siren's, I play the bounty game. I have found a way to fight almost any scenario people face in that zone... with the old Hurricane, it's about the only thing that worked solo... but it did work... you just had to be extremely patient to pull it off.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
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Wait a second! What are you planning with Force Bubble? It repels. That's all it does. Taking away repel means it creates a big bubble that does absolutely nothing.
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Right. That's why it's harder.
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Since Hurricane is so easily countered by any AT that can fight at range, and the nerf calls didn't appear to be coming from heroes who found themselves helpless against Hurricane in Warburg, I have to assume that most of the nerf calls came from Stalkers and Brutes. Since the pvp stalker population is so much larger than the pvp brute population, I'll draw the conclusion that the most complaints about hurricane came from stalkers, and more specifically those without ranged attacks.
Unfortunately, with Energy Melee being widely known as one of the most damaging primaries for an AT that has the highest kill/death ratio (by a ridiculous margin), the above group amounts to a significantly large population of complaining people.
And since EM stalkers can kill just about anything in under 10 seconds, it's very frustrating for them not to be able kill a hurricane user on their first pass.
Maybe I misunderstood a previous post from the devs, or they've just decided to go in a different direction than I was expecting. They said that stalkers kill/death ratio was significantly higher than any other AT in the pvp zones (or something to that effect), so I kinda figured they would be making moves to lower that kill/death ratio. Instead they significantly nerf a power that's primary use in pvp zones is stalker protection. A nerf that will lead to fewer stormers in pvp zones using the now reduced effectiveness Hurricane power, and another increase for the stalker kill/death ratio .
Is it not completely obvious why some stalkers are so happy about this change or felt it was "needed"?
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wurd.
If TK is getting nerfed too... I'd rather you keep the repel and nerf the Hold that never suppresses.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
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Why do people keep acting like the Stormers are NPCs with no awareness or ability to use tactics of their own? They're not helpless, they're presumably intelligent players reacting to what's around them.
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Why do people keep acting like they have to stay huddled and all get hit by hurricane at the same time?
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I don't know. I'm not acting like that.
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Why do people feel that just because they rolled an EM stalker, that they should have the right to kill anything with their easy button?
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I don't know, I'm not acting like that.
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So 1 build managed to shut yours down...
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I don't feel ANY build should be able to shut down any other reasonable PvP build - ever. You feel otherwise, that's your choice. It's hardly like I'm uniquely and totally against Hurricane here; I'm just as against the ridiculous amounts of damage put out in PvP, capable of dropping people in split seconds, because it literally does shut down other types of builds to a large extent. I literally want PvP damage scaled down at least moderately specifically to make it so no one DOES die in 2 seconds to a Stalker, Blaster, or Scrapper. But you assume because I play a Stalker I'm only FOR changes that help Stalkers and AGAINST changes that don't.
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there is a good selection of corrupters, dominators, masterminds, hell, even stalker and brute builds that can give a stormer a bad day.
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Yes, that's what I did. Now I don't have to resort to that sort of nonsense, and there's one less inequity. Hopefully more inequities will be resolved.
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pretty soon with all these nerfs to make debuffs/repels ineffective, all we are going to be seeing soon is nothing but buff and damage builds.
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See, I'm not FOR the debuff nerfs. You attack me, but I don't think the debuff weakening IS a good thing. My issue was with Hurricane's incredible repel, and that was it. If you're just speaking in general, fine, but if you're speaking to me specifically understand that if anything I think debuffs in general should be a bit stronger. Debuffs like Snowstorm and Freezing Rain, for example. Something needed to be done about Hurricane's repel, though, and it was.
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It's been going in that direction for quite some time, and all the changes the devs are making, it's only encouraging that even further.
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Hurricane's repel was an issue entirely on it's own. If you've got a problem with the general way the game is developing, there's no reason to take a hostile tone with me about it. My support for one ch ange doesn't entail my support for the other changes you take issue with; I'm with you on those.
I hear what you are saying Terpman and it's leading me to start moving away from this game. The sheer amount of Energy/Spine Stalkers is to the point that zone PvPing isn't even fun. I'm very frustrated about a number of things that range from Placate being auto-hit to the misrepresentation of the Stalker class saying they are squishy when in fact they are less squishy than the Scrapper class they are modeled after. If there is one problem in this game it is the Stalker. They are not fun to fight against. In Warburg they hit there 38 power and then when it's about to end they run to safety. I don't see improvements being made as to the handeling of this situation nor do I think they see a problem.
Stalkers have ruined an element of fun for me that I used to enjoy. Account ends 4-27 and it might be a while before I decide to reup it if at all. Energy Transfer for the win.
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Why do people keep acting like the Stormers are NPCs with no awareness or ability to use tactics of their own? They're not helpless, they're presumably intelligent players reacting to what's around them.
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Why do people keep acting like they have to stay huddled and all get hit by hurricane at the same time? Why do people feel that just because they rolled an EM stalker, that they should have the right to kill anything with their easy button? So 1 build managed to shut yours down, bring a friend who's build shuts theirs down. there is a good selection of corrupters, dominators, masterminds, hell, even stalker and brute builds that can give a stormer a bad day.
pretty soon with all these nerfs to make debuffs/repels ineffective, all we are going to be seeing soon is nothing but buff and damage builds. why make anything else other than emp and ice/nrg blasters. It's been going in that direction for quite some time, and all the changes the devs are making, it's only encouraging that even further.
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i have seen the future of pvp in coh...
it looks like this:
pvp
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Why do people keep acting like the Stormers are NPCs with no awareness or ability to use tactics of their own? They're not helpless, they're presumably intelligent players reacting to what's around them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why do people keep acting like they have to stay huddled and all get hit by hurricane at the same time? Why do people feel that just because they rolled an EM stalker, that they should have the right to kill anything with their easy button? So 1 build managed to shut yours down, bring a friend who's build shuts theirs down. there is a good selection of corrupters, dominators, masterminds, hell, even stalker and brute builds that can give a stormer a bad day.
pretty soon with all these nerfs to make debuffs/repels ineffective, all we are going to be seeing soon is nothing but buff and damage builds. why make anything else other than emp and ice/nrg blasters. It's been going in that direction for quite some time, and all the changes the devs are making, it's only encouraging that even further.
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i have seen the future of pvp in coh...
it looks like this:
pvp
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That's an sg match. They changed it to a hot-seat game.
I don't feel ANY build should be able to shut down any other reasonable PvP build - ever. You feel otherwise, that's your choice. It's hardly like I'm uniquely and totally against Hurricane here; I'm just as against the ridiculous amounts of damage put out in PvP, capable of dropping people in split seconds, because it literally does shut down other types of builds to a large extent. How ridiculous and immature of me to want a reasonably balanced game.
--to those of us that have it, hurricane is our primary defense against the ridiculous amount of damage being kicked out by other ATs. without it, we are truly sitting ducks. hopefully castle et al can come up with a system that allows the hurricane to protect the user in pvp and prevents any abuse in base raids. i just don't think the current fix is it.
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--to those of us that have it, hurricane is our primary defense against the ridiculous amount of damage being kicked out by other ATs. without it, we are truly sitting ducks.
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Which is why I'm for Storm's other powers being improved to help give you other lines of defense, and against more than melee damage. I don't want Stormers to be useless, sitting ducks. I want them to be viable contestants on the field. That's not going to come from one really good power and a lots of so-so ones though.
Stormers also aren't the only characters who have this problem, and I hope a solution can be come up for the others as well. Defenders and Dominators in particular really get the shaft in many ways, and that's not conducive to fun play.
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hopefully castle et al can come up with a system that allows the hurricane to protect the user in pvp and prevents any abuse in base raids. i just don't think the current fix is it.
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I'd be happy with anything that didn't demand certain character builds had to go to pretty extreme lengths simply to meaningfully affect them. I'd be just as happy with some sort of repel supression for instance, to quote something I'd seen in the thread previous.
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--to those of us that have it, hurricane is our primary defense against the ridiculous amount of damage being kicked out by other ATs. without it, we are truly sitting ducks.
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Which is why I'm for Storm's other powers being improved to help give you other lines of defense, and against more than melee damage. I don't want Stormers to be useless, sitting ducks. I want them to be viable contestants on the field. That's not going to come from one really good power and a lots of so-so ones though.
Stormers also aren't the only characters who have this problem, and I hope a solution can be come up for the others as well. Defenders and Dominators in particular really get the shaft in many ways, and that's not conducive to fun play.
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hopefully castle et al can come up with a system that allows the hurricane to protect the user in pvp and prevents any abuse in base raids. i just don't think the current fix is it.
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I'd be happy with anything that didn't demand certain character builds had to go to pretty extreme lengths simply to meaningfully affect them. I'd be just as happy with some sort of repel supression for instance, to quote something I'd seen in the thread previous.
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Every other power in /Storm is awesome (cept for Gale). The reason storm is so powerful is the combo of powers, not just Hurricane. Hurricane was the icing on the cake.
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Why do people keep acting like the Stormers are NPCs with no awareness or ability to use tactics of their own? They're not helpless, they're presumably intelligent players reacting to what's around them.
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Why do people keep acting like they have to stay huddled and all get hit by hurricane at the same time? Why do people feel that just because they rolled an EM stalker, that they should have the right to kill anything with their easy button? So 1 build managed to shut yours down, bring a friend who's build shuts theirs down. there is a good selection of corrupters, dominators, masterminds, hell, even stalker and brute builds that can give a stormer a bad day.
pretty soon with all these nerfs to make debuffs/repels ineffective, all we are going to be seeing soon is nothing but buff and damage builds. why make anything else other than emp and ice/nrg blasters. It's been going in that direction for quite some time, and all the changes the devs are making, it's only encouraging that even further.
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i have seen the future of pvp in coh...
it looks like this:
pvp
[/ QUOTE ]
whoa I was expecting pong
actually if you are gonna nerf anything castle look at tk next cause its like.. annoying
the high accuracy of illusion (at least to my sr it seems high)
the damage output of a certain "rad/psi" defender
and then the stun from the rez of DA, which stuns through pretty much any mez protectionfor about 10 seconds
and um if you have a chance completely remove the following sets from pvp
TA, dark, poison, AR,
fire manipulation,
ice melee on tankers, axe, mace too
um...
ya
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--to those of us that have it, hurricane is our primary defense against the ridiculous amount of damage being kicked out by other ATs. without it, we are truly sitting ducks.
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Which is why I'm for Storm's other powers being improved to help give you other lines of defense, and against more than melee damage. I don't want Stormers to be useless, sitting ducks. I want them to be viable contestants on the field. That's not going to come from one really good power and a lots of so-so ones though.
Stormers also aren't the only characters who have this problem, and I hope a solution can be come up for the others as well. Defenders and Dominators in particular really get the shaft in many ways, and that's not conducive to fun play.
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hopefully castle et al can come up with a system that allows the hurricane to protect the user in pvp and prevents any abuse in base raids. i just don't think the current fix is it.
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I'd be happy with anything that didn't demand certain character builds had to go to pretty extreme lengths simply to meaningfully affect them. I'd be just as happy with some sort of repel supression for instance, to quote something I'd seen in the thread previous.
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in all fairness, it's reasonable to expect a few inequities in the pvp game. it's not perfect, that's a given. however, it is competitive and (to some extent) there is room for diversity.
one element that accounts for the competitive nature of high-end pvp is a toon's build. 9 times out of 10, in a high-end pvp match, you're dealing exclusively with pvp builds.
to expect a toon specifically tailored for the pvp game to be well within the reach of any and all toons made for pve is not realistic.
perhaps where you and i differ in our view is in our notions of what are reasonable sacrifices for pvp performance. i think, given the current state of affairs, rebuilding a toon is completely reasonable.
and, yes, i pay the price in pve effectiveness.
i'm ok with that sacrifice because i enjoy pvp a good deal more.
because of this, i built my toon from scratch (via a respec) FOR pvp. i made certain i had the core powers to survive in zones like Siren's Call. and later in Warburg. i chose powers based on their efficiency in pvp and pvp alone. i slotted those powers for what i took to be maximum effectiveness. i also practiced and spent a good deal of time learning the game. i saw powers in every AT that could nullify hurricane.
now it's not the case that every build will have access to those powers at level 28 (or whatever the level cap in Siren's is). it's not the case that ever build will be able to defeat a well-made, intelligent storm defender.
it's also not the case that a well-made, well-played storm defender is ever going to beat a stone tank. or a spines/regen. it's just not gonna happen.
it's been said time and again that pvp is not being balanced for 1v1 play. to do so would likely undermine the diversity that distinguishes it from such great pvp games as...oh, i dunno, atari combat. i don't think it's reasonable to expect this kind of 1v1 balance from the devs at this phase of the game.
but maybe you're not suggesting anything of the sort. maybe you've tried diversifying your team or varying your power selections and/or slotting. maybe you've tried temp powers and yellows. i dunno. perhaps, if they have the time and are so inclinced, the devs could do some meaningful research into the relative uberosity of storm summoners in the arena vs. stalkers or scrappers or blasters. maybe they would find they're overpowered. but i really don't think so.
rather than a nerf to hurricane, i'd like to see certain underperforming sets buffed to help keep pvp competitive at the early levels.
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Wait a second! What are you planning with Force Bubble? It repels. That's all it does. Taking away repel means it creates a big bubble that does absolutely nothing.
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Right. That's why it's harder.
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How about making it a big bouble that debuffs damage? 
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but maybe you're not suggesting anything of the sort. maybe you've tried diversifying your team or varying your power selections and/or slotting. maybe you've tried temp powers and yellows. i dunno. perhaps, if they have the time and are so inclinced, the devs could do some meaningful research into the relative uberosity of storm summoners in the arena vs. stalkers or scrappers or blasters. maybe they would find they're overpowered. but i really don't think so.
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I've tried these things and succeeded, but I also feel I'm an above average player in terms of reflexes, capability, and computer processing speed. I am not saying, nor have ever said, Hurricane was an obstacle that could not be overcome. I just didn't feel like the specifics it took to overcome it's repel feature were in line with any other power in the game. It was an odd ball in my eyes, and not in a good way. If there were many more powers that required similar specifics to reasonably and reliably combat, I may have felt differently.
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rather than a nerf to hurricane, i'd like to see certain underperforming sets buffed to help keep pvp competitive at the early levels.
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I happily admit an alternative to weakening Hurricane could be to add more powers LIKE it (not necessarily in form, but in power and effectiveness) to a variety of underperforming sets. My issue with Hurricane was always that it was out of line with the other powers in the game; if many other powers were similar in scope, it would fit in better. Such things might also help to balance out Dominators a bit. I don't think, however, such an approach would leave Storm Summoners in a very nice position in Recluse's Victory, where almost everyone is going to be ranged capable. That would definitely need some attention, because although the old Hurricane is damn strong in Siren's Call, it's wouldn't be (or won't be, if it's reinstated for some reason) in Recluse's Victory, and I don't feel the other Storm powers are sufficient.
Castle,what are the odds you can change it so that if we slot knockback enhancements we can bring the force of the repel back,atleast that way we are paying for it again with slots we wouldnt otherwise need put in.
As it stands right now I cant effectively protect my team even with multiple CM's and fort on me. Pvp was tough before,and sometimes frustrating depending on the opposition,but now? It's just plain frustrating,the set is now almost gimp,I'm not sure what you see in the future of this set,but if its anything like it is right now,just say it now so I can make MY plans accordingly. At the very least rewrite the power set so the debuff tick and the repel tick are seperate and let the debuff work at a faster rate to help protect us more instantly when a melee toon comes to deal us a instant death blow.
Just keep this in mind while you work on the power Castle,we CAN NO LONGER protect our teams in pvp.
Maybe they will give us something in return,like a mobil storm cloud,or a gale that does decent KB dmg,or or how about or an AoE heal,cuz theres no reason why a stormy cant increase the o2 in the immediate area instead of just within a single person,how about a mobil lightning cloud that has +perception,I mean does lightning need to see something before it strikes it or just be pulled toward a conductable object?
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Why do people keep acting like the Stormers are NPCs with no awareness or ability to use tactics of their own? They're not helpless, they're presumably intelligent players reacting to what's around them.
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^ I don't know, I'm not acting like this either.
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I don't feel ANY build should be able to shut down any other reasonable PvP build - ever. You feel otherwise, that's your choice. It's hardly like I'm uniquely and totally against Hurricane here; I'm just as against the ridiculous amounts of damage put out in PvP, capable of dropping people in split seconds, because it literally does shut down other types of builds to a large extent. I literally want PvP damage scaled down at least moderately specifically to make it so no one DOES die in 2 seconds to a Stalker, Blaster, or Scrapper. But you assume because I play a Stalker I'm only FOR changes that help Stalkers and AGAINST changes that don't.
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The game is all about tactics and counters. If there was nothing that could shut down, or let's say, counter another build, then what would be the purpose of going anything but damage? The only thing uncounterable would be dying, since when you die, you can't counter. Repel powers are the counter to some of the most threatening stuff in the game, namely blappers and stalkers. Some stalker builds even have repel resistance (EA, Regen-MoG) that can counter this. At the same time, storm's lack of a self heal, mez protection, or high defense powers (like PFF) make them most vulnerable to range attacks and mezzes. Basically the repel for storm prevents deaths, but if that is something that makes it nerfable, then maybe the first on the nerf list should be empathy and thermal since they do a way better job at it
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there is a good selection of corrupters, dominators, masterminds, hell, even stalker and brute builds that can give a stormer a bad day. - Yes, that's what I did. Now I don't have to resort to that sort of nonsense, and there's one less inequity. Hopefully more inequities will be resolved.
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What sort of nonsense. Nonsense such as viable counters? Nonsense such as maybe bringing some teammates to help stop this stormer that is most likely teamed? Yeah, God forbid we ever have to resort to such nonsense as finding counters and some decent teammates.
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pretty soon with all these nerfs to make debuffs/repels ineffective, all we are going to be seeing soon is nothing but buff and damage builds.
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See, I'm not FOR the debuff nerfs. You attack me, but I don't think the debuff weakening IS a good thing. My issue was with Hurricane's incredible repel, and that was it. If you're just speaking in general, fine, but if you're speaking to me specifically understand that if anything I think debuffs in general should be a bit stronger. Debuffs like Snowstorm and Freezing Rain, for example. Something needed to be done about Hurricane's repel, though, and it was.
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The repel and melee safe zone especially from blappers is a huge part of storm survivability. Without a kinetics defender or controller on say, an ice/nrg blaster's team, they won't be able to just rush in and aim+bu/bonesmasher/BiB/TF and KO you in basically 3 seconds. Now they sorta can, the repel was one of the bigger things that hurricane had, it's main defense against high dmg blappers. I can understand your personal frustration with repel, however this type of drastic changes to a power opens the door for already borderline overpowered builds just to become more of just that (ice/nrg blaster). I think their offensive power should remain the same and dmg shouldnt be nerfed further. ED was bad enough already. The acc debuff on it getting nerfed was a joke. Ask how many scrappers/tanks with focused accuracy were missing a stormer that caned them. Snowstorm and freezing rain are pretty good debuffs but wont save you from the ice/nrg hopping in and 3 shotting you before you even get a chance to apply 1 debuff.
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It's been going in that direction for quite some time, and all the changes the devs are making, it's only encouraging that even further.
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Hurricane's repel was an issue entirely on it's own. If you've got a problem with the general way the game is developing, there's no reason to take a hostile tone with me about it. My support for one ch ange doesn't entail my support for the other changes you take issue with; I'm with you on those.
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Hurricane's repel and getting worked by Ice/nrg blaster and their buff buddes actually go hand in hand, and is not a seperate issue. The main reason why my SG brought stormers and FFers into battle was mainly as an anti blapper. Until you dropped this guy's toggle, we'd focus on the FotM blaster builds and make things harder on them. But hell, if they brought a pet kinetics with them we were pretty screwed and spent the entire match running for our lives. I know what you're trying to say, but what I'm saying is that changing a power in such a way closes the door for one certain build to counter some of the powerful builds in the game, and one less viable tactic to fight against the horde of FoTM blasters and their buffers. Instead of being a build that was a viable counter, you get add to the long list of being their b*tches
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/em wonders when the devs are gonna realize that Force Bubble has the same "problem" that convinced em to zap Hurricane.
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The worst parts about getting debuffed by hurricane was the nasty to-hit debuff and its -range. The -tohit was easily countered at the higher levels(FA, AIM, BU, etc). The -range was the only form of mitigation against ranged toons for the Storm summoning set. It made only since that storm should be able to keep melee out when they are so vulnerable to everything else.
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Actually, the only thing I really wanted to change in this mess was the ability for Repel Fields to effectively trap a player against geometry in Base Raids. I'm aware other powers have the same problem. I'll address those individually, though -- the same type of change made to Hurricane can be made, but for the most part, those powers have fewer aspects to them that Hurricane does. That makes getting them right considerably harder.
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thanks again for the constant vigilance, castle. it's appreciated.
thing is, the current fix goes too far toward correcting the original issue. it undoes a subtantial portion of the storm's defense, opening the door to melee attacks that were previously very difficult to launch.
hurricane users are now VERY SUSCEPTIBLE to melee attacks from all ATs.
from melee ats, storm only has the trace remains of repel and the to-hit debuff to protect them. the hurricane does not debuff the range of melee toons' attacks (grrr...) and the knockback is suppressed or resisted to the point of being almost useless. furthermore, overcoming the to-hit debuff has never been an issue for a well-built opponant.
for non-melee toons the only difference is a potent range debuff. this, combined with the repel used to make it very difficult for non-melee toons (with melee powers) to land melee attacks. sadly, this is no longer the case. ice/em for teh win anyone?
my point in all this is that the fix went too far.
i know you tried to get a timer to prevent toons from being trapped in base raids and said you had some problems with that. in all honesty, making something like that work is the only thing that seems fair. yeah, there'll be debate about "how long" the timer should be set, but it's a step in the right direction.
thanks again for your time, castle.