Bodyguard


5th_Player

 

Posted

So wait, for anyone who can give me a simple answer, I want to get a more simpler take on Bodygaurd..

From what I understand, as long as you're in Supremacy range of your pets and and are on Defensive, that means they're on Bodygaurd mode? Does this mean Bodygaurd will be active even if I make them attack on Defensive? or do I have to set whichever pets on a certain Defensive mode (like Defensive+follow) to be on Bodygaurd?


 

Posted

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So you're saying they'll divy up the Unresistable portion too?
I duno man, that sounds like more coding than it's worth to me...

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It takes the entire block of damage and apportions it by the ratios described. For the Mastermind, he then gets his Resistances applied, while the pets get no resistance to the shared damage.

In the case of unresistable damage, therefore, all damage is apportioned, then resists apply normally -- the unresisted portion is still unresisted, but it is reduced by the Bodyguard.

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If this is true, are there plans to reduce this 'damage sharing' ratio in PvP zones where resistance is already tweaked in MM favor vs heroes?

Currently I see MMs with 5 minions roam freely near the hero base able to inflict heavy damage without going down (in single combat - 1 squishy hero vs 1 MM w/minions). I think it would be fair to add a shared 'effect' on the MM too, so that if the MM got mezzed or held, those minions in bodyguard would also be effected. The total time effected could be cut/shared by this same 2-1 ratio.


"It is that balance, the ground between EB and AV, where the PvP struggle should exist. Where a 1v1 becomes a struggle of equals, and 1vMany gives the benefit to the 1."

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Posted

Nice they get 60% Resistance. Now how about some for Tanks.


[color=gold][b][size=5]♪ Sometimes you feel like a Tank, Sometimes you don't! ♪[/size][/color][/b]

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Posted

What resistance tweak are you refering to? If you are a blaster and are getting owned by a MM, then you may need to look at your strategy. I think this is a great concept when considering that most NPCs and all players ignore the minions and kill the mastermind. Now if you want to AS a Mastermind, you need to take into consideration the number of minions he has out.


"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."

 

Posted

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Wow, thats a nice boost. Like 33% dmg resistance for he MM just by keeping a minion by your side. Good stuff.

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This was exactly my thoughts. And this is only with one. In Posi's example it's a 60% DAM RES.

So with the full compliment of 6 henchmen, you could have around 75%. (Using Posi's example) If you were "dealt" 100 points, you would take 25 and each henchmen would get 12.5, plus any they took.

Sounds DAMN impressive.


 

Posted

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Group TP. If you're taking group travel anyway, Group TP is decent when slotted 3 range, 3 end. It's not perfect, but it's all we've got. And as cool as GF is (and decent-ish when slotted 3 end redux), it doesn't pack the speed of GTP.

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Group Fly is taken in conjunction with Group TP to act as a 'group hover' so that the minions don't fall out, because, as we all know, that when it comes to Group TP...

GROUP TP IS STILL BROKEN!!


Ahem, where was I? Oh yes, Group Fly. While GTP is faster than GFly, you'll still need GFly for aerial combat in PvP. And the good thing about GFly is... no suppression (Tactics will make up for the -ACC.)


Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

Posted

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What resistance tweak are you refering to? If you are a blaster and are getting owned by a MM, then you may need to look at your strategy. I think this is a great concept when considering that most NPCs and all players ignore the minions and kill the mastermind. Now if you want to AS a Mastermind, you need to take into consideration the number of minions he has out.

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I suspect that this is one reason why it is being added to the MM AT. MM's take a while to set back up after they die. Maybe the Dev's figured that the least they could offer was a fightable situation before they fall to AS over and over since they are easy targets now.


 

Posted

Ocean_born:
In addition to being in Supremacy range, you will need to set the bodyguard pets to both Follow command and Defensive stance. A command is an instruction you want the pet to do, a stance is a general behavior the pet will perform while not actively following a command. They are separate functions that combine to control how the pets perform. In this case, while in Supremacy range, Follow+Defensive=Bodyguard.

Dr_Corvus:
I kinda doubt the pets shifting to Bodyguard mode will be instantaneous. Speculation of course, but given that it seems pets will complete a certain part of their current orders before acknowledging new ones, I am guessing that same delay will be in effect for bodyguard if the pets are currently carrying out a command.

Example, send a pet to attack a target, then issue a follow to it. The pet will continue to carry out the attack command for a time before returning. It seems like a 'program checks for command cycle' delay, not a 'must complete one command before doing another' thing.

Although come to think of it, I haven't actually looked at the little icons in the pet window to see if they switch before the pet gets around to following the orders.

Edit: just checked, the icons switch instantly, the pets' response time is still delayed of course.

-Sandolphan


"When heroes fail, the Angels will save you."

MASTERMIND NUMERIC KEYPAD PET CONTROLS
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Posted

I think one thing to keep in mind, I feel that Bodyguard was designed specifically to reduce MMs being one/two shotted in PvP without the MM having a chance to defend or return fire.

With respect to this, I feel that Bodyguard will be very helpful. There would be no reason not to be in Def/Follow until right before you attack.

I don't think anyone really feels that MM as an AT need a buff for PvE. If you can make use of Bodyguard in PvE, then good for you. If not, then oh well.


@SBeaudway on Pinnacle, TaskForce Titans Supergroup.

 

Posted

Alright I gave this some thought over the night and here are my initial impressions:
1) Defensive mode is my favorite mode, I'm a control freak and I hate when my pets run away to attack someone I don't intend to due to being on aggressive. I make extensive use of the "Attack my target // defensive" command when I want them attacking something, maybe I'll just have one or two stay on Follow now...
2) I like to have all my pets focus on one target, it's just so much more efficient. That said, the times I die in PvE and PvP is because I get one-shotted by an attack that does just a bit over my HP, keeping one zombie on Bodyguard duty at all times should take care of that.
3) Supremacy has a very large radius, keeping pets in range should not be a problem in a fight unless you fly way above your pets or stand far far away from them.
4) Pets are slow, very slow. This is my main gripe with Bodyguard (and pets in general) in PvP. With everyone jumping around like a grasshopper on crack, there's no way you can rely on bodyguard if you intend to have any mobility at all. Basically we'll be like Granite Tanks/Brutes, little islands of massive defense. This is probably as intended though.
5) As a few posters before me mentioned, it'll be interesting to see how sensitive Bodyguard is to orders you give. I can definetely see a good micro-manager making use of quick binds to juggle between Attack my Target and Defensive Follow.
6) There's no reason for your pets NOT to be on Defensive/Follow when not in combat in PvP. This means no Stalker can ever one shot you with AS. In fact, with 7 pets on Defensive/Follow, AS will tickle.


 

Posted

Wait a minute... I may have missed a similar comment earlier in the thread, as I just skimmed most of it, but doesn't PFF stop Supremacy, like it stops any other power from affecting others? So it would stop Bodyguard too? Why again was PFF for MM's nerfed?

During Bodyguard speculation I'd assumed it was because PFF + Bodyguard would result in capped damage resistance. But this just can't be the case now that we know how it works.


 

Posted

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Your Henchmen must be within Supremacy range for this function to work.


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Time to tele-gank masterminds.


 

Posted

NICE! Thanks Posi!


 

Posted

When you're in defensive... your hench will attack whoever is attacking you, right? This hasn't changed at all? So, if they're always in defensive (which mine pretty much are), you set them to attack my target (still def), then to follow me, they'll be in bodyguard mode attacking who you want them to.

If you get attacked by someone, the minions will all just switch to attacking that guy, right? I don't think I see many downsides to it.


 

Posted

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So, if they're always in defensive (which mine pretty much are), you set them to attack my target (still def), then to follow me, they'll be in bodyguard mode attacking who you want them to.

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Not quite, according to Posi:
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Issuing an order of “Attack my target” will take them out of bodyguard mode, as will issuing any other stance or order.

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Any order cancels Bodyguard. So my question then is, when is Bodyguard status restored? Do you have to explicity reset them to follow-defensive, despite the fact that they actually are follow-defensive, after the current order is finished? Or do they automatically revert upon order completion?


 

Posted

wait... will defensive mode work now?

For those of us that have melee henchman and have used defensive in the past, this sounds like another excuse to have bouncing minions. I get shot, all my minions run at the enemy who then shoots mm for full damage.

So now the tactic is going to be... Weak long range shot, watch minions run at you, Aim, BU, one shot.


 

Posted

Just guessing but this doesn't include scrapper/stalker criticals or the unresistable portion of blaster attacks, right? If not, this feature isn't adding much.

Something like 40% from a AIM + BU + Total Focus or a hit from AS is still going to be greater than my MM's HP, so Bodyguard does nothing for me. And if I am reading this correctly, since Henchman will now take additional damage due to Bodyguard from AoE attacks, they'll go down even faster than they already do.

I liked the idea of an AoE Taunt for the henchman better.


Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper

Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."

 

Posted

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Just guessing but this doesn't include scrapper/stalker criticals or the unresistable portion of blaster attacks, right? If not, this feature isn't adding much.

Something like 40% from a AIM + BU + Total Focus or a hit from AS is still going to be greater than my MM's HP, so Bodyguard does nothing for me. And if I am reading this correctly, since Henchman will now take additional damage due to Bodyguard from AoE attacks, they'll go down even faster than they already do.

I liked the idea of an AoE Taunt for the henchman better.

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Castle said this earlier in the thread in answer to someone asking about Blaster unresistible damage:
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It takes the entire block of damage and apportions it by the ratios described. For the Mastermind, he then gets his Resistances applied, while the pets get no resistance to the shared damage.

In the case of unresistable damage, therefore, all damage is apportioned, then resists apply normally -- the unresisted portion is still unresisted, but it is reduced by the Bodyguard.

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I'm guessing this will work the same way for Defiance, Criticals, Containment, Assassin Strike and Scourge. It seems to me like Bodyguard just looks at the amount of damage coming in, regardless of type and source, and spreads it amongst your pets.

It'd be real nice if a Dev could confirm it works on ALL those Inherents or which Bodyguard doesn't affect. Will it work on falling damage too?


 

Posted

I'm pretty sure _Castle_ said it counted all damage

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So you're saying they'll divy up the Unresistable portion too?
I duno man, that sounds like more coding than it's worth to me...

[/ QUOTE ]

It takes the entire block of damage and apportions it by the ratios described. For the Mastermind, he then gets his Resistances applied, while the pets get no resistance to the shared damage.

In the case of unresistable damage, therefore, all damage is apportioned, then resists apply normally -- the unresisted portion is still unresisted, but it is reduced by the Bodyguard.

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edit: bah!! beaten to the punch!! Well, this looks like I'm finally gonna hafta look into macros for those tough Hero/EB battles and PVP. Ah well, I guess you can't cruise on the basic three forever...


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Posted

Here's how I see it playing out. in PvE

You leave the minions on Defense/Follow mode most of the time. This way if you get ambushed or accidentally aggro something you have excellent resists and the bots fight back as normal. When I first started playing my MM, I always left my bots in Defensive mode anyway. It wasn't until I got the level 32 upgrade that I started leaving them in Aggressive mode (so they spread their AoE attacks out more effectively). Switching back won't be a big deal.

If you're attacking an unaggroed spawn, then the procedure is the same, send the bots on a goto and give them an attack order (or switch to aggressive). Because I'm not attacking until the bots have started their AoE attacks, I don't draw much aggro. If I to get aggroed by something (like a boss) and the bots just can't pull it off, I switch back to defense/follow mode to basically put the shields back up.

In PvP it'll be a bit harder. If I'm traveling around, I'll do what I normally do and turn on PFF and Super Jump with the bots on passive. Once I get to my destination I let the bots catch up and then switch them to defensive and drop PFF (if necessary). I'm not one of those guys who resummons his pets just to travel between door missions though, I'll still use PFF for that. The lack of a travel power on the bots means that keeping them with you over long distances is just annoying anyway.


 

Posted

Still more in damage than a MM's HP on high powered attacks. At best, my MM will be two shot instead of one.


Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper

Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."

 

Posted

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Still more in damage than a MM's HP on high powered attacks. At best, my MM will be two shot instead of one.

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Uh? I'm pretty sure my MM has lots more HP than 40% of an BUed AS...

With all your pets out and on Bodyguard, you'll take only 28.6% of that AS actually (25% if you're Necro and have the Ghost out )


 

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he problem, Pax, is that my Medic ALSO takes his own damage, and does not heal himself. Nor, quite frankly, does he heal anything else all that well, either. So, now, not only do I have to worry about pulling him from harm's way, but he's going to be attacked by proxy. Couple that with the fact that he's two levels below me, and therefore has fewer hit point, that "20 points" is a much larger chunk of real estate than you're giving it credit for.

*shrugs*

If you couldn't figure that out -without- the explanation, then I doubt you'll understand now.


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but this is silly. there are exceedingly few plausible situations where spreading damage among you rminions will result in you being less effective in combat. so it's utterly besides the point. On top of that, when the medic goes down you can bring him back up quickly.

Any situation where you're taking enough damage that it could kill your medic is not a situation where your medics heal will make an appreciable difference in survival - at least, not one that exceeds bodyguard's potential in the same situation.

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Considering that my Medic has always, in every instance of henchman death, been the first to die, I think this problem is -hardly- silly, but thanks for dismissing my opinion without knowing what you're talking about.

Perhaps you'll -ask- more questions, in the future, before making an asinine assumption about what does, or does not, happen, while I am playing my Mastermind. Just a suggestion.


"I see your words..." ~The most menacing thing a forumite could say

 

Posted

I always leave my Tier 2 Henchmen behind while my Tier 1 Henchmen strike, so other than the fact that I normally leave them in Aggressive mode rather than Defensive, this shouldn't be much of a change for me. I'll just change my binds so the "Protector" pets stay in Defensive mode.

More MM players will simply have to learn how to control their henchmen individually, and divide them up into offensive and defensive teams. If I'm reading the way this works right, you can actually CHOOSE how much protection you get, as each Henchman in Defensive mode gets his own "share". So with two in Defensive mode you'll take 50% damage, but if you call back all 6 you only take 25%.

I'm also assuming this power will work at range, so if a Henchman is defending you he'll take his damage even if he charges to HTH range. As long as you're within the Supremacy radius.

If that's the way it works, this sounds like some of the suggestions for Tankers to take some of the damage for their allies. Not as good as Taunt, perhaps, but at least it's consistent while Taunt would probably be somewhat random.


 

Posted

Another couple of questions:

Will bodyguard still work if the MM is Mezzed?

Will Hences count as bodyguards if they themselves are mezzed?


Always remember, we were Heroes.