Let's see.. Necro has seven henchmen, not six (the ghost from Soul Extraction is a true henchmen, whereas Dark Miasma's Dark Servant is an old-school pet that can't be set on defensive/follow, like real henchmen).
So, if they're all on bodyguard, that's seven shares, plus my two... nine shares of damage. I'll be resisting damage at 78% (2/9 of damage). Then with Twilight Grasp, and the ability of every henchmen to self heal.... looks good to me.
Then, I'll be testing out a PvP build which combines Group Fly (three slotted with EndRedux) and Group TP (three slotted with EndRedux and 3 Range Increase) to get around the lack of travel power for the minions.
There's a few flying blasters I'd like to talk to....
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I like this bodyguard ability. I think that the smart and tactical players will benifit the most from his power, while the ppl who just mindlessly send out their pets to follow an opponent half way across the map wont.
As far as PFF, no red name said anything about Supremacy having to be "active", from what I understand they only need to be within Supremacy's range as standard. So you could probally still use bodyguard with it on.
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I dislike the way this works, especially for the melee MMs like Ninja, this means to use my abilities I have to be hit first, and it PvP with low MM HP, even 75% resists won't cut it.
In any zone all someone has to do now is just kite me, if I don't plan on switching out of body guard, as defencive stance is fairly unreliable, I've been beaten to death in defencive standing neck deep in henchmen and none attacked my target, or if they did, they went into a mini aggresive stance, and after using the pitiful Ninja Ranged Alpha strike, would run around attacking anything near by, and the ones that did decide to go into melee would run out of supremacy range, which would negate bodyguard.
What if someone with TP foe ports me onto a building? my ninja desplay the remarkable ability to be unable to understand how to get on one, so I'd be hosed anyway, same with storm summoning users, who could just gale your pets off a building, or scatter you and your minions with hurricane, switching your pets in melee mode and making them just run futally into hurricane.
This doesn't solve the travel issue either, PvP is about speed, and pets don't have that, it's even worse if you set up and have to move, as the only way to get from point A to point B with any speed while using pets is to set them on passive and just run, once again negating Bodyguard. Before you mention the group "travel" options in the power pools, they are horrible for traveling, they're slow and endurance intensive.
What does passive mode get us anyway? We can't order our pets when held, so we can't switch to defencive/follow when being bullied by a controller, or ice blaster (which are much more frequent in PvP).
If you want my opinion, make Bodyguard work as it does for defensive, but make it also work in all passive modes but "Attack my target," as the attacker isn't in danger, the only one screwed if the pets are in passive is the MM.
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Group TP. If you're taking group travel anyway, Group TP is decent when slotted 3 range, 3 end. It's not perfect, but it's all we've got. And as cool as GF is (and decent-ish when slotted 3 end redux), it doesn't pack the speed of GTP.
And, for the record, I like this new addition. It's situational, it make you think, it turns the MMs into that much more of chess player. Although it just means that Necro/Dark will probably no longer have ANY competition as the "best MM PvP build".
I didnt read the entire thread (11 pages), so forgive me if this has been said already.
To the naysayers ("I like to focus fire, and I'll lose bodyguard then!"), consider the following:
Minions bodyguard you, giving you 60% damage resistance. They still counterattack when something aggroes you (AND when something aggroes your lts. and boss pet). Just create a GUARD macro:
/macro GUARD "petcom_pow <drone/sold/gen/zom> foll def".
Ta da. Just remove the <>s and choose the proper string.
50 Bots/Traps MM, 50 Thugs/Pain MM, 50 Demons/Thermal MM
*Stuck in a single-AT rut since 2006*
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I don't like this. Here's why: I have my Medic set to Defensive/Follow, so that he doesn't run about blasting everything with his subar damage. Instead, he heals. Now, he's going to be taking a beating instead of giving a healing.
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Okay. So a 60 point hit comes in. Before, it owuld be you taking 60 points. NOW, instead, it's you taking 40 and him taking 20. What's the problem?
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The problem, Pax, is that my Medic ALSO takes his own damage, and does not heal himself. Nor, quite frankly, does he heal anything else all that well, either. So, now, not only do I have to worry about pulling him from harm's way, but he's going to be attacked by proxy. Couple that with the fact that he's two levels below me, and therefore has fewer hit point, that "20 points" is a much larger chunk of real estate than you're giving it credit for.
*shrugs*
If you couldn't figure that out -without- the explanation, then I doubt you'll understand now.
"I see your words..." ~The most menacing thing a forumite could say
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As a robot MM, this sounds like a good thing to me. I'll have to give it a whirl on Test to see how effective it is
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Hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge. 
50Soulsunder: DM/Regen Scrapper
50Limitshift: EM/WP Brute
Victoria Nox: Dark/Dark Dominator
And about 5 others that change constantly...
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As long as the Henchman is in Defensive Follow and within Supremacy range, he is in Bodyguard mode.
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I am assuming that by "within Supremacy range" that means that:
A) Your henchmen on bodyguard duty will have to have a valid line-of-sight to you, the Mastermind
B) Effects that cancel Supremacy like Phase Shift, Personal Forcefield, and Invisiblity (self) also cancel Bodyguard even if Line-of-Sight is present.
C) That the Henchmen must be under the effect of Supremacy - i.e. have the Supremacy icon beside there name with all the other active power effects, and not just within Supremacy's range of 65 feet.
This also brings me to another question: Since Supremacy is line-of-sight dependant, does -Perception powers, when they affect henchmen, reduce the effective range of Supremacy?
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And, for the record, I like this new addition. It's situational, it make you think, it turns the MMs into that much more of chess player. Although it just means that Necro/Dark will probably no longer have ANY competition as the "best MM PvP build".
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I suspect not, for one reason: a Merc/, Thug/, or Robot/ mastermind will be better able to have their bodyguards return fire against anyone not closing to melee distance. Yes, Necro/ will certainly have an edge versus Ninja/, and /Dark will have a greater edge in healing. But I think ...
Well; I have a Robo/FF mastermind, still only level 24 for now. Once he hits L26 ... if and when I expect to take aggro on a personal level (i.e., an Ambush), the Protectors stay in Defensive/Follow mode pretty much 24/7, while the Assault and three Drones do the offensive "thing". My Prot-bots will return fire on anything that actually shoots ME, while reducing the damage I take by a net of 50%, via Bodyguard. Everything else can concentrate their not-inconsequential amount of firepower on whatever I want to kill fastest.
Mind you; that mastermind is built to avoid aggro like the friggin' plague ... and I still applaud Bodyguard. Against an EB or AV (nerfed to EB or not), I put them ALL on Def/Fol ... and lay down the Force-Bolt Smackdown, sucking up aggro as best I can ... a total reversal of my usual tactics, and an option only made possible by the advent of "Bodyguard".
LaserJudas posted:
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I don't like this. Here's why: I have my Medic set to Defensive/Follow, so that he doesn't run about blasting everything with his subar damage. Instead, he heals. Now, he's going to be taking a beating instead of giving a healing.
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Okay. So a 60 point hit comes in. Before, it owuld be you taking 60 points. NOW, instead, it's you taking 40 and him taking 20. What's the problem?
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The problem, Pax, is that my Medic ALSO takes his own damage, and does not heal himself. Nor, quite frankly, does he heal anything else all that well, either.
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I'm wondering what you're doing to draw so much aggro, to be perfectly frank. And why your Medic, who's in Defensive stance already, would pull his own aggro. I believe masterminds do best when they do NOT generate any aggro that could be avoided; since you cited that you're /FF ... unless you've got Force Bubble up, then outside of an Ambush ... you really shouldn't be DRAWING aggro. Period.
I know my /FF doesn't.
Well, congrat-u- [censored] - lations to you, then. MY force field Mastermind DOES draw aggro because, GASP, I use Force Bolt to keep targets in a state of soft control. GASP! I don't stand by, idly, while my henchmen do all the work. GASP.
"I see your words..." ~The most menacing thing a forumite could say
Orochi hit the nail right on the head..for ranged oriented masterminds, this is great..But Im a Ninja mastermind, and my henchmen rely on melee prowess to kill. In PvP, all of my henchmen need to follow and close within melee range to do any serious damage.
Now I already know what you folks are going to say:
"Send your high dmg henchmen in and let the peons act as bodyguards!"
Well its not that easy....To do damage that will put player lives in jeopardy, I need more damage than what my two jounin will dish out if I send them into melee range. I will never kill any squishy with just two jounin. I need higher DPS to kill heroes or villains before they can fly or get away, and Im sorry, but that doesnt happen with two jounin- I need ALL of my guys rushing into melee range and hitting for the disorients and damage.
So that leaves me with no bodyguards to protect me from a blaster kiting me if my minions are trying to get to him. The only thing I can hope for is Tp foe, and usually, I just dont like using TP foe because I think its cowardly...but maybe Ill have to respec into it because Im being forced by the devs into that playstyle in order to maximize this 'fantastic' new ability the devs have given us.
Dont get me wrong Positron/Castle, I think you guys were very creative here, and this is definetely a good idea in principal, but Id like to know how you guys think a melee Mastermind should take advantage of this ability without using TP foe so our minions can actually hit something and do a respectable amount of damage.
Orochi was right for a second time when he mentioned PvP is all about speed and mobility. This seems like an ability that encourages us to stand still and wait to be hit, and in PvP, staying still, and especially waiting to be hit first is asking to get faceplanted.
Im thinking that even when I keep ALL my minions in for defense, their feeble arrows and shurikens will not dent a blaster unless all 6 of my guys pump two rounds into them, and usually by that time, the blaster can fly away and avoid my minions.
I just dont know..I want to like this power, but Im struggling to see how it benefits melee masterminds. There is no way we are going to benefit from this as good as the ranged Masterminds will, and I think that something needs to be done about that. I wish I knew the answer, but this concept is still new to me, and I need some time to think it over.
If theres any players out there that can provide other suggestions, please dont hesitate to chime in and throw a few suggestions in the open. I'd even like to hear from a dev about this.
Thanks everyone.
Ping me at @Psion or Psion2.
Necro is going to have issues with this too. In a fight its aways guess work which pets are going to charge into melee and which will stay near me at range. Going to take a hard bit of control work to get them to stay close to keep me alive. Bots and Mercs are going to be lovin it though since they all stay nicely grouped with the man in charge.
Exactly. Bot Masterminds can lay down and go prone with this ability and not worry much about taking too much damage, because while in defensive mode, their bots stand still and just fire away. Ninja and Zombies run all over the frackin place trying to get into melee range.
So its damn if you do damn if you dont. Send all your pets in to attack,and you give up this wonderful defensive ability. Keep your pets in, and your biggest strength as a mastermind- your pet damage- it totally negated, and you are turned into a player that has good defensive capabilities with a few support abilities with no damage whatsoever except a few ridiculous arrows and darts.
If I wanted to role a Dark Defender I wouldve stuck with CoH. But I like my pets, and want them to be fairly utilized in comparison with other MM's - and that means they should be able to benefit from this ability but do damage in comparison to the ranged MM sets.
Melee Masterminds gain better defense with this ability, but lose the benefit (if they utilize this defensive ability) of being able to damage players to the point of killing.
Ping me at @Psion or Psion2.
Ive thought about it for a bit, and I think whats making this suck the most is having to have your pets on the defensive stance. If my pets are close to me, then this ability should still kick in.
Im just thinking that in its current state, I could have a player right in front of my face 1 foot away from me, and if I tell my pets to engage him in melee combat -EVEN IF THEY ARE ALL RIGHT BESIDE ME - I lose the bodyguard defensive ability, eve though my pets are still right there by me. I shouldn't have to lose the bodyguard ability just by telling my henchmen to attack something thats 1 foot away from all of us, it makes no sense.
So in essence, i think if they change this power to where it is in effect as long as I have any pets near me, that would make it fair to melee masterminds as well, because all i would have to do is just follow my pets into melee range and make sure I stay close by when they are going to attack something. Id get the same benefit ranged Masterminds are getting while not being penalized because Im a melee based MM.
How does that sound?
Ping me at @Psion or Psion2.
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Well, congrat-u- [censored] - lations to you, then. MY force field Mastermind DOES draw aggro because, GASP, I use Force Bolt to keep targets in a state of soft control. GASP! I don't stand by, idly, while my henchmen do all the work. GASP.
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It's a good thing you weren't sarcastic about it, though.
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Setting to Bodyguard
You can set any Mastermind Henchman to Bodyguard by selecting the Defensive Stance and the Follow Order. Your Henchmen must be within Supremacy range for this function to work.
Bodyguard Mode
When set to Bodyguard mode, the Mastermind and his Henchmen share damage from any attack that the Mastermind takes damage from. Each Henchman takes one Share of the damage, and the Mastermind himself takes 2 Shares. This is in addition to any damage that the Henchmen themselves might incur from Area attacks.
Example: If a Mastermind has 3 Henchmen set to Def/Fol, and he gets hit with a 100 point attack, each Henchman will take 20 points of damage, and he himself will take 40 points. (total of 100 points of damage).
Example 2: If a Mastermind has 3 Henchmen set to Def/Fol, and he gets hit with an Area Effect attack for 10 points of damage, then each Henchman will take 2 points of damage, and he himself will take 4 points. Henchmen that were also in the Area of Effect will take an additional 10 points each.
What Does This Mean?
Bodyguard will work as long as a Henchman is in Defensive Follow. This means that they will follow you around and attack back when you or they are attacked. Issuing an order of Attack my target will take them out of bodyguard mode, as will issuing any other stance or order. You can set as many of your Henchmen to bodyguard that you want. As long as the Henchman is in Defensive Follow and within Supremacy range, he is in Bodyguard mode. Being stunned will not turn off bodyguard mode.
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HELL YEAH!!!!
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I just dont know..I want to like this power, but Im struggling to see how it benefits melee masterminds. There is no way we are going to benefit from this as well as the ranged Masterminds, and I think that
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Having played a ranged MM for a long time, I have the same sort of feelings toward bodyguard.
Above and beyond all else, reguardless of what primary or secondary I take, the greatest asset of being a ranged MM is the ability to focus all that ranged fire on a single target and get it dead before It can do damage. Another major asset of ranged pets is the ability to "get the jump" on an enemy. The ability to START the fight with a few seconds of massive volley of damage flying their way before they notice me.
I can not do this, if I am on defensive/follow, waiting for an enemy to hit me so that my pets will fight without losing my bodyguard effect.
As many others have stated, there are LOTS of ways for a MM to get seperated, or be forcefully seperated from our pets in PvP. This does not promote better survivability or tactical play of a mastermind. What it does promote is fancier ways to quick kill a mastermind.
As many players have suggested, use one or two of your little pets as bodyguards. Well, if that is the popular tactic, then enemy players will likely knock off the little ones quickly first. They are super easy to kill.
AE root + teleport foe should make for an easy way to seperate a MM from their pets. As someone else suggested, teleporting the MM to a rooftop would also be a quick and easy way to eliminate the bodyguard effect.
I feel that this implementation of Bodyguard does not help us. It does not give us the protection we need, it just forces enemy players to get a little more fancier in how they quick kill us. But the quick kills will continue. Even if we are only taking 25% damage, we really do not have much health in the first place, a strong enemy could probably burn us down anyway. The problems MMs have is that we have big exploitable weaknesses that noone else has.
The first thing I'm going to test when I7 hits the Training Room is to see how picky Bodyguard is in regards to the timing of your pets' current mode.
Say, for example, I issue the 'attack my target' command to all pets, then immediately switch them to defensive/follow. They will still throw out their alpha strike and complete the attacking animations, however, the icons next to them in the pet window immediately change back to defensive/follow the very moment the order is given.
Will Bodyguard be programmed to wait until the pets are finished attacking from the initial order and then kick in, or will it simply activate the moment the pets are given the defensive/follow commands? I would guess that it would kick in immediately, unless it was specifically programmed to wait. I imagine that would be a bit difficult to program, given the varying lengths of all of the attack animations and whatnot. It's something to test, anyway.
I will certainly be giving Provoke a spin as well. 
Thats a goo idea Dr., but in the case of melee Masterminds, youll need to get right next to the person or send your pets into melee range for that alpha before you switch stances. Who in their right mind stands still while a MM and 6 pets runs right up next tot hem besides tanks/brutes? No one in PvP. The run and kite like hell...
Lets say even if you do get off a melee alpha strike with all of your minions, run in beside them, then switch to defensive mode real quick- you do get your bodyguard ability turned on, but if that player does not retaliate, your pets are now on defensive follow, and chances are they are not going to attack that player if they do not attack you or another one of your pets. A player would just need to use common sense and not attack back, and just super leap/fly/super speed out of melee range, heal up or not, and just start the kiting process. once the kiting starts, our pets are now in ranged mode and firing their puny darts and shurikens chasing the player to hell and back going in and out of our supremacy range....thats no way for a power to work....its a big cluster----.
The only tactic I think might be effective is if I rush in with my pets (already a huge risk because of my low HP in PvP) have them beat on a guy in melee range while I try to slow/root them, then when his friends come or he starts blasting away, put my pets on defensive follow while hes spamming attacks so they suck in damage...maybe if he gets low on endurance or something then send them into melee range again and engage...But theres still problems with this..the pets are always going back and forth, in and out of supremacy range, in and out of twilight grasp range, I still wont be doing enough damage because any sane blaster will be super leaping/super speeding/flyingaround causing my pets to STILL use their puny [censored] attacks....Theres just no real benefit in PvP to this power unless you use your mastermind as nothing else than a stationary debuffing character with good defense.
If we go into a fight knowing that we wont be damaging the enemies and just going to be debuffing, maybe we wouldnt be so dissapointed and can know what to expect. I just think its crap that we lose our ability to damage an enemy (as Melee MM's) if we take advantage of this ability.
Ping me at @Psion or Psion2.
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he problem, Pax, is that my Medic ALSO takes his own damage, and does not heal himself. Nor, quite frankly, does he heal anything else all that well, either. So, now, not only do I have to worry about pulling him from harm's way, but he's going to be attacked by proxy. Couple that with the fact that he's two levels below me, and therefore has fewer hit point, that "20 points" is a much larger chunk of real estate than you're giving it credit for.
*shrugs*
If you couldn't figure that out -without- the explanation, then I doubt you'll understand now.
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but this is silly. there are exceedingly few plausible situations where spreading damage among you rminions will result in you being less effective in combat. so it's utterly besides the point. On top of that, when the medic goes down you can bring him back up quickly.
Any situation where you're taking enough damage that it could kill your medic is not a situation where your medics heal will make an appreciable difference in survival - at least, not one that exceeds bodyguard's potential in the same situation.
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Thats a goo idea Dr., but in the case of melee Masterminds, youll need to get right next to the person or send your pets into melee range for that alpha before you switch stances. Who in their right mind stands still while a MM and 6 pets runs right up next tot hem besides tanks/brutes? No one in PvP. The run and kite like hell...
Lets say even if you do get off a melee alpha strike with all of your minions, run in beside them, then switch to defensive mode real quick- you do get your bodyguard ability turned on, but if that player does not retaliate, your pets are now on defensive follow, and chances are they are not going to attack that player if they do not attack you or another one of your pets. A player would just need to use common sense and not attack back, and just super leap/fly/super speed out of melee range, heal up or not, and just start the kiting process. once the kiting starts, our pets are now in ranged mode and firing their puny darts and shurikens chasing the player to hell and back going in and out of our supremacy range....thats no way for a power to work....its a big cluster----.
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There will certainly still be many ways to circumvent Bodyguard in PvP, but that is the way it should be IMO. It is too powerful to have on all the time. In fact, with all six pets on Bodyguard, wouldn't the MM then have more collective HP than a Tanker? It has to have some big weaknesses if it is to be that powerful.
As Bodyguard stands, it will still provide some benefit that we didn't have before in PvP, even if that benefit is easily taken away by a smart player. It's better than nothing, better than what we have right now on Live.
Besides, I probably should have specified, but my post was mostly in regards to PvE. Once I get to level 50, then I will start worrying about PvP.
In my humble opinion this "buff" is not worth the time it took to code. But then what do I know I'm just a Drunken Noob.
Wow. That's pretty spiffy!
IT'S NOT A TOGGLE!!!!
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Ghostfall - Lev 50 Arachnos Crab Soldier
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Sounds like a much need hand in the MM's direction
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Sounds like something Tankers should also be able to for their team.
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A long while ago, I suggested a related mechanism specifically to replace "taunt" as aggro/damage control for tankers (called "shielding" instead of "bodyguarding").
Specifically, the idea was that with taunt, the most dangerous place to be was near the tank, which makes no sense. With shielding/bodyguard, the safest place to be is near the tank (because of the effective radius of the effect, in this case, supremacy range).
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