I would be all for the idea of tankers taking partial damage for all hit team mates within range. Provided they get enhanced buffs against THAT damage taken. Maybe a extra portion on top of the normal resistances they have. Otherwise every time a team got hit with a AE attack the tanker would go from full health into the red.
If this was implimented for tanks I would make one today! And anyone who looks up my history knows I have always deemed the Tank archtype the least enjoyable and appealing to me. This would make me want to be a tank.
'If Champions Online is what "CoH was supposed to be", I'm glad that I have what I have rather than "what it was supposed to be".' - The Alt oholic
"I solo'd Hamidon...but I also totally cheated." - Back Alley Brawler
"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)
You guys rock! Very cool way to make the CoH pet experience both different and better than any other game's pets, and add a strategic element to the minions at the same time.
Will this be a mastermind only behavior or will it work for anybody using a mastermind interface (like a Heavy in Recluse's Victory, for instance)?
Hmm. I had to think about this, and I'll probably still be thinking about this weeks or months after it goes life ... and that's a good thing.
When on teams, about one out of every five times somebody gets all crabby with me about unpacking the level 1 minions at all. The opinion, which I understand but don't entirely share, is that level 1 minions don't contribute enough damage output to justify the annoyance factor of having to navigate around them or deal with them chasing runners or pulling adds.
On the other hand, if I set my level 1 minions to Follow Defensive, and only send Attack Aggressive commands to the level 2 and 3 minions (can I do that with a single macro button without playing games with their names, will the $$ separator work?), I lose the ability to direct their damage output. By my estimate that means that about a quarter of my damage output will now be spread out at random or otherwise wasted; only a little of it will hit the primary target I'm trying to take down.
On the other hand, it means I can actually use a weapon of my own and have 3/5 of the incoming damage spread among the level 1 minions. If I'm using my soldiers, the medic can heal two of the three (if not quickly) and I can heal him. If I'm using my robots, the protector bots can heal the 3 of them ... but probably won't in time to do any good, unless they're still standing between fights.
This changes one of my rules of thumb for PvE which is that the first time I see a mastermind pull out a weapon of their own, I want to kick them from the team. It means that they're drawing more aggro than any corruptor can keep up with on their fragile selves, and time they spend making their own attacks is time that they're not managing their minions. Now, though ... I'm not sure how this'll play out. Maybe, not for sure but maybe, they've actually made masterminds' use of primary attacks viable.
I think I suddenly see why you thought it wasn't painfully stupid to give masterminds three personal attacks in their patron power pools. I still don't think I agree. I would rather that at least one patron offered a status defense, and that at least one patron offered combat invisibility, and that at least one patron offered some kind of minion travel-power buff, and the fourth some kind of click-power long-recharge self heal or hit point buff like Dull Pain. But suddenly I see why you thought that at least some masterminds would be able to withstand the aggro they'd draw from using all those cone and AoE attacks.
... on the other hand, unless you give people more macros on their starting tool bar, it means that the 9/10ths of all masterminds who don't read the forums or study the documentation will be using their minions in sub-par ways. Could you at least consider replacing the totally useless Follow Aggressive command with a Bodyguards button that does /petcom_all follow defensive?
I like this one!
More things like this please!
~Liberty~
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~Virtue~
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Global - @Puretone
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So much for MMs having their pets ignored in PvP now 
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QFT. My scrapper is gonna have to watch out for MMs now.
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So basicly what you are saying is, that if we don't do anything and just stand there, we will be protected. If we actually try and fight, we will be cut down, in pvp just as easy as we already are...
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Nope.
You know those "useless" Tier 1 minions, later in your career? The ones a lot fo people advocate not bothering to summon ...? Set them to "Def/Follow", and you take only 40% damage - the rest is shared out to THEM.
My Robotics MM will probably stick the protectors in Defense/Follow mode ... at least occasionally. More often, once I get my assault 'bot. They should still Heal and Buff while in defensive stance, and their offense won't be as critical. They might still summon their Seekers, too ... have to wait and see on that one.
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Sounds like something Tankers should also be able to for their team.
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As a toggle, as opposed to inherent, right? If so, /signed.
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Inherent toggle? Not all inherents are pasive.
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Got my terminology wrong then, I guess - sorry. So I think it should be an inherent toggle power as opposed to an inherent <insert-on-all-the-time-power-word-here> power. Of course, then all the other archetypes (especially dominators) will start complaining that tanks get two inherents, but I still think it's a good idea.
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Wait! Doom! How do I set one pet to defensive follow with a keybind! :-P
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In your Keybind file, instead of (perhaps):
lctrl+lbutton petcom_all goto aggressive
... you would have:
lctrl+lbutton petcom_all goto aggressive$$petcom_name Bob follow defensive
^_^
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Sounds like something Tankers should also be able to for their team.
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My tanker has no interest in spreading damage he takes among his team-mates.
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Note, he said "for" not "to", so invert the effect.
Unless, of course, you already understood that and were just being a jerk.
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Dividing a large amount of damage which is focused on the Tanker and dispersing even portions of it among the team could be a viable tactic. Just not one I'm interested in using. There are a lot of Tankers complaining lately about their "survivability"--even on MM threads.
EDIT: Meanwhile, he's clarified what he meant. I think that would be good in a certain Primary, but I don't see absorbing/deflecting damage directed at teammates as being .. what's the word .. characteristic of all Tanker types. That gets into the Defender/debuffer realm, and as someone said -- Tankers have taunts.
Edit2: Actually now that I think about it, Bodyguard as a skill for Tankers does make sense. Sacrifice themselves for a team-mate. Take 2x damage to intercept hits on the Bodyguarded. Something like that.
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There ya go. Now you're getting it.
Not the kind of buff I was looking for, but useful. No more getting one shotted and I can at least live long enough to let the animation of Twilight Grasp finish once before I die.
My current PvP play style is do not stand still and avoid all melee confrontations. Unfortunately that strategy doesn't hold up very well against juiced up lvl 50 Ice/Sonic Blappers and Spine Scrappers that I have 0 chance of holding.
With this buff I can use my pets to spread the damage and use twilight grasp to keep everyone healed. It's just going to take me a while to become use to the notion of staying in a relatively confined space.
It's of practically no value to me in PvE since I barely draw agro as it is now.
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I dislike the way this works, especially for the melee MMs like Ninja, this means to use my abilities I have to be hit first, and it PvP with low MM HP, even 75% resists won't cut it.
In any zone all someone has to do now is just kite me, if I don't plan on switching out of body guard, as defencive stance is fairly unreliable, I've been beaten to death in defencive standing neck deep in henchmen and none attacked my target, or if they did, they went into a mini aggresive stance, and after using the pitiful Ninja Ranged Alpha strike, would run around attacking anything near by, and the ones that did decide to go into melee would run out of supremacy range, which would negate bodyguard.
What if someone with TP foe ports me onto a building? my ninja desplay the remarkable ability to be unable to understand how to get on one, so I'd be hosed anyway, same with storm summoning users, who could just gale your pets off a building, or scatter you and your minions with hurricane, switching your pets in melee mode and making them just run futally into hurricane.
This doesn't solve the travel issue either, PvP is about speed, and pets don't have that, it's even worse if you set up and have to move, as the only way to get from point A to point B with any speed while using pets is to set them on passive and just run, once again negating Bodyguard. Before you mention the group "travel" options in the power pools, they are horrible for traveling, they're slow and endurance intensive.
What does passive mode get us anyway? We can't order our pets when held, so we can't switch to defencive/follow when being bullied by a controller, or ice blaster (which are much more frequent in PvP).
If you want my opinion, make Bodyguard work as it does for defensive, but make it also work in all passive modes but "Attack my target," as the attacker isn't in danger, the only one screwed if the pets are in passive is the MM.
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You have a good point. Basically to use this power you cannot travel through zones at any pace faster than normal run speed [even having sprint on leavees your pets in the dust].
Well at least MM save power slots since they wont need travel powers anymore
:/
[For the people who don't understand, the only way to travel around as it is now and expect your pets to be alive when they catch up to you is that they travel in PASSIVE mode. In defensive they will stop and fight and die.]
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On the other hand, if I set my level 1 minions to Follow Defensive, and only send Attack Aggressive commands to the level 2 and 3 minions (can I do that with a single macro button without playing games with their names, will the $$ separator work?)
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Yes. You can set a button that says "petcom_pow protector att agg$$petcom_pow assault att agg " (obviously using the names for robots, you can replace them with any power names) and only the Tier 2 and 3 pets will attack, the Tier 1s will stay in whatever mode you last ordered them to be in.
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I don't like this. Here's why: I have my Medic set to Defensive/Follow, so that he doesn't run about blasting everything with his subar damage. Instead, he heals. Now, he's going to be taking a beating instead of giving a healing.
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Okay. So a 60 point hit comes in. Before, it owuld be you taking 60 points. NOW, instead, it's you taking 40 and him taking 20. What's the problem?
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I dislike the way this works, especially for the melee MMs like Ninja, this means to use my abilities I have to be hit first, and it PvP with low MM HP, even 75% resists won't cut it.
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Here's an idea: if you don't need it, you don't need it ... and you only need it if you're going to get hit in the first place.
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What does passive mode get us anyway?
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Defenseive. Not passive.
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On the other hand, if I set my level 1 minions to Follow Defensive, and only send Attack Aggressive commands to the level 2 and 3 minions (can I do that with a single macro button without playing games with their names, will the $$ separator work?)
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Yes. You can set a button that says "petcom_pow protector att agg$$petcom_pow assault att agg " (obviously using the names for robots, you can replace them with any power names) and only the Tier 2 and 3 pets will attack, the Tier 1s will stay in whatever mode you last ordered them to be in.
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You can even edit the existing Macros. Take that "Target circle" macro, and edit it to add $$petcom_pow Protector Follow Defensive, or the like.
That way, they all go to attack your target, and THEN (instantly) your Protectors are put in Defensive/Bodyguard mode.
This is interesting. I'm having crazy images of MM's using Provoke. 
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This is interesting. I'm having crazy images of MM's using Provoke.
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That's what I was thinking about too
I have such mixed feelings about this.
The good news is that this will definitely increase the usefulness of Defensive mode. No longer will they stand there like blind, deaf idiots when their boss is being attacked.
The bad news is that, to take advantage of the feature, you can't concentrate your pet's fire as much as before.
Questions...
Currently Defensive mode means they will just defend themselves or their fellow henchmen. Does bodyguard mode now mean that defending ME takes precedence in their target selection?
Will they go so far as to switch targets mid-combat? Or if they are already attacking one, will they stay on that same enemy?
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Okay, so with 3 henchmen, 100 pts of damage gets spread out as though 5 people were hit: 100/5=20. Henches get 20, you take 40.
So if I have 5 henches, the damage gets dropped to 14.20, so the henches takes 14.2 each and you'd take 28.4?
Basically, you've got almost 70% RES to damage, so long as the henches live?
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MM ... The new tank. Pluse this 70% res is not a toggle and so takes up no endurance to run. Put together a solid attack chain and your in business
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execept the MM has much much lower HP than a tank.
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This is interesting. I'm having crazy images of MM's using Provoke.
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For me ... it just means I can keep my pets in "follow, Defensive" when I use TP Foe to pull mobs one-by-one into my quick-death crossfire. Sure, sure, I'll take a wee bit of damage each time. But, it'll be a WEE bit of damage. ^_^
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I don't like this. Here's why: I have my Medic set to Defensive/Follow, so that he doesn't run about blasting everything with his subar damage. Instead, he heals. Now, he's going to be taking a beating instead of giving a healing.
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Why are you taking a beating? And if you're taking enough of a beating that it would hinder your medic, how are you alive?
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I stand beside my henchmen, with force fields up, NOT PFF, rebubbling and directing.
Why? What difference does it make?
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I'm just trying to understand the problem. Your medic will only be taking a portion of the damage that you would have taken at a 2:1 ratio. I guess I'm just trying to figure out how this is harming what you do. Is your Mastermind taking enough damage that it would kill your medic to receive 1/3rd of it through bodyguard? I'm not sure on the HP ratios, but how exactly are you surviving this now?
I guess I'm trying to figure out how this is actually hurting your medic.
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You have to keep in mind that the medic is lower level than you, so even though he's only taking 1/3 of the damage, that same 1/3 is a higher percentage of his overall health.
What is a tier 1 minion's health compared to the MM when he's conning green, anyway?
Bodyguard! What a creative idea, I think I can hear masterminds rejoicing all over the place. Nicely done Cryptic.
Regards,
Captain Head Explody
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Sounds like a much need hand in the MM's direction
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Sounds like something Tankers should also be able to for their team.
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QFT
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Great... Good for MM's...
BUT WHAT ARE DOMINATORS GETTING?
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Doms get a free mocking snicker every time a Hero breaks out a BreakFree to cancel all of their powers. Grrrr.
As for the bodyguard function, I guess I am going to have to start some keybinds. One of the things I liked about MM was being able to use just the commands they give you and be pretty darn effective. I have a feeling though that finding the sweet spot of how many henchmen to use as guards will become the new MM forum question.
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Poor Dominators. They could use a bit of love too.
Regards,
Captain Head Explody
I like this Bodyguard idea, but people are bringing up some good points. Some minions play support like medics and the shield robots. I might be useful to make a button specifically for Bodyguard. I think that would smooth out any little bumps.
Regards,
Captain Head Explody
So as a Robot/FF mastermind, I had to have a 2 min timer on PFF...WHY?
Please explain to me why it is that the damage I take goes to my minions and IGNORES their resistances and defenses! They should still get a chance to apply their own resistances. Lets assume it automatically hits, because they are leaping in front of the attack or some such, so they don't get their defense...ok.....why don't their RESISTANCES apply?????
I took forcefield so I could help DEFEND my minions...now I'm happy they can help defend me, but I'm not at all happy about the way all the bubbles that I take the time to renew every 4 minutes ARE IGNORED!
Why should any hero in PvP ever target a robot? They're harder to hit than I am, and they would get to apply their resistances to the damage. NOW, the heroes can just attack me directly. I'm MUCH easier to hit, I have FAR fewer resistances, and the damage will get transferred to the minions anyway!
We wanted a reason for the heroes to have to kill our minions. You just gave a solid reason for them to NEVER target them.
Sure, this is better than nothing...but it sure wasn't very well thought out. This may be a nice boost for PvE (which we didn't need a boost for) but it will be of little help in PvP which was where we were hurting.
Suriyama
40 bots and bubbles
Justice