Massive Hurricane nerf
By
aqshy2004,
Posted on: 2006-04-11 24:48 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Personally i would prefer they remove the repel from the pvp version rather than mess with the pulse time. After all, if players can eaily get thoguh the repel, whats the pint of it being there? Just remove it and leave the pve repel as it used to be.
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Not a bad idea at all. Most players couldn't care less how it works in PvP, and this lets us keep it for PvE. Actually, a repel-less Hurrican would not be useless in PvE either, and might be better than one with a borked repel; it would pull less aggro and be a viable always-on power. But if the PvE version is to keep repel, the repel needs to be reliable.
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oh, we're talking ONLY IN SIREN'S CALL here...
so...no epics.
so...no storms with mez protection.
well then...
did you try using focused chi before launching your stun grenade?
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Once again.. MA/Regen Scrapper, Siren's Call. Siren's Call is heroes vs villains. Scrapper is a hero. Can't fight other heroes. My Stalker doesn't have Focus Chi. My Stalker has wasted tons of Inf on useless stun and web grenades. Hurricane alters the battlefield way too much. You shouldn't need a whole team to take out one power. No one power should be able to run continuously and make them almost untouchable(and I really do mean untouchable as in can't get near them to be able to hit them) because a toon doesn't have ranged attacks or super speed, etc. Even with tanks and scrappers there toggles can be more easily dropped by using Brawl. With hurricane, you can't get close enough to use Brawl.
I haven't gone on test to see how the effective the changes are but just because some people are complaining about them, doesn't mean they are good enough. When Tsoo Sorcerers use Hurricane you at LEAST have a chance to get close to them and hit them. Not with toons in PvP.
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i'll repeat myself because i bear repeating:
YOU DON'T NEED A WHOLE TEAM TO TAKE OUT ONE POWER.
you need to adapt.
you simply refuse to do so.
instead, you prefer to ask for a nerf.
i mean no disprespect man, but this isn't good for the game.
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Dude. I'm not the only one that says it needed to be nerfed. The devs did too. Not that the devs are always right, not that I'm always right, but on this one it's overly obvious that something needed to be done to Hurricane in PvP. Adapting should not involve having to do a multitude of things of things to take out a single power. They could have nerfed hurricane a hell of a lot more, but they didn't (yet). Now Stormies will have to rely on multiple powers a bit more then besides one. That's fair adaption. The others ATs do it.
I agree storm was never overpowered. It was always balanced by the fact that it was agro crazy with certain powers. It is just a lot of eye candy so it just looks over powered.
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*Sigh*
Once again the PvPers who refused to think through problems on the battlefield have gone and ruined things for everyone, including those who don't PvP at all or very often. The fact is, good PvPers know how to disable huricane fairly easily. All you have to remember are a few things:
1) Storm Defenders lack mez protection in their powerset. Unless they have another power that grants some or are teamed with people who can give them mez resistance, it can be very easy to hold, stun, sleep, whatever a storm defender.
2) Use travel powers to your advantage. If you have teleport, you can teleport right next to the defender and get off a mez attack before huricane takes effect. Or use superspeed's inertia to get in close.
3) Que your attack before engaging the storm defender. Remember, attacks will remained active ready to go off as soon as you get in range. So you can have a travel power ready, que the attack, get in close, and the mez attack or regular attack will go off on its own, even if you get repelled while it happens. The target only needs to be in range when the attack goes off.
So, there you have it, 3 simple things that can disable a stormie. Part of the challenge of PvP (and the fun if you ask me) is thinking through the challenges presented. It is a common theme that the best PvPers will do this, and that is why they are so strong. Not to say storm summoning's huricane did not need some nerf. The fact is forcing someone against a corner where they can do nothing (not even pop a break free) was a bit extreme and needed to be dealt with, but I think the developers are catering too much to people who just want a win button in PvP.
And why can't the effects of huricane be different in PvP and PvE. If you ask me, I haven't noticed storm being vastly overpowered in the PvE game. People must still think through their actions and I still risk death if I take on more than my powers can handle.
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QFT
hurricane was never overpowered.
there were and are plenty of counters for it.
the reason it got nerfed is because it's a debuff power and inexperienced players are more inclined to complain about a debuff power 'cuz it affects their toons negatively. notice how few people complain about clear mind or clarity--they're buffs.
it spooks me a bit to see this happening, but i think the devs will continue to nerf debuff powers in the interest of an ill-formed notion of balance until this phenomenon becomes clear to them.
hurricane was never unbalanced in pvp. at least not when compared to powers like sonic cage, detention field, clear mind, clarity...
the cries against it were unjustified.
the nerf was inappropriate.
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I am all for a second set of game rules in PVP zones and leave PVE to have their own rules. The majority of the players are PVE why punish the majority for the simple minded squeaky wheel minority? The devs just seem to love to piss people off when there are better solutions if they use their heads.
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Why I should care how a set performs in PvP is beyond me.. that's like telling me that it's OK that my computer suddenly crashes all the time because "It's very efficient at heating the room".
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Please understand that you have my full and complete understanding about the annoyance of PvP-driven changes affecting PvE.
However, I'm a little surprised that anyone is taken off guard by this. There have not been any PvP-only power changes in quite some time.
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Actually that astatement was made about PVP would not affect PVE game play. Of course some of the most annoying changes were made because of PVP. I say have one set of game rules in PVP zones and another in PVE zones. Make everyone happy instead of pissing off the majority of the players.
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The devs made a promise that PvE changes would not be made solely for PvP.
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You'd love it if that were true. The developers have a job to do. They do it the best they can. They tell is the guiding principles they're using, then go ahead and do what they have to do. If you read every explanation of "probably, we expect that mostly..." as a writ-in-stone promise, you're going to be disappointed. Not just with the CoH devs, but with most of life.
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I guess all their promise meant was that they would never *admit* that they were making a change solely for PvP.
This is such a blatant lie that it is insulting to our intelligence. Do they actually expect us to swallow the lie that Storm has suddenly become overpowered for PvE?
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Actually, the patch notes say explicitly that this change was solely for PvP. It doesn't say that the change carries over to PvE... but it doesn't say it doesn't, all it says is the power changed. Since the power exists in PvE, we shouldn't be surprised that changing the power changes PvE. Furthermore, we have no idea how hard it would be for the devs to change Hurricane in PvP and not in PvE. That might be a lot of code. Would you rather have the developers put off all power fixes for several months while they code a new PvP/PvE distinction in their powers? Or have them make a few changes like this so massive bugs and exploits can be fixed?
The developers do a LOT for us. Try to recognize that there are tradeoffs in everything they do, and give them at least the slightest benefit of the doubt once in a while.
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When devs nerf a power to the point people want to quit or just give up on the powerset they need to start thinking of more intelligent solutions. They just love to chase away their customers. Good thing this isn't a bricks and mortar store instead of an MMO. They would have gone bankrupt a long tima ago the way they alienate their customers.
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When you're done, can I have your stuff?
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Nah I'm just respeccing out of the power, not dropping the character
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oh, we're talking ONLY IN SIREN'S CALL here...
so...no epics.
so...no storms with mez protection.
well then...
did you try using focused chi before launching your stun grenade?
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Once again.. MA/Regen Scrapper, Siren's Call. Siren's Call is heroes vs villains. Scrapper is a hero. Can't fight other heroes. My Stalker doesn't have Focus Chi. My Stalker has wasted tons of Inf on useless stun and web grenades. Hurricane alters the battlefield way too much. You shouldn't need a whole team to take out one power. No one power should be able to run continuously and make them almost untouchable(and I really do mean untouchable as in can't get near them to be able to hit them) because a toon doesn't have ranged attacks or super speed, etc. Even with tanks and scrappers there toggles can be more easily dropped by using Brawl. With hurricane, you can't get close enough to use Brawl.
I haven't gone on test to see how the effective the changes are but just because some people are complaining about them, doesn't mean they are good enough. When Tsoo Sorcerers use Hurricane you at LEAST have a chance to get close to them and hit them. Not with toons in PvP.
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i'll repeat myself because i bear repeating:
YOU DON'T NEED A WHOLE TEAM TO TAKE OUT ONE POWER.
you need to adapt.
you simply refuse to do so.
instead, you prefer to ask for a nerf.
i mean no disprespect man, but this isn't good for the game.
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Dude. I'm not the only one that says it needed to be nerfed. The devs did too. Not that the devs are always right, not that I'm always right, but on this one it's overly obvious that something needed to be done to Hurricane in PvP. Adapting should not involve having to do a multitude of things of things to take out a single power. They could have nerfed hurricane a hell of a lot more, but they didn't (yet). Now Stormies will have to rely on multiple powers a bit more then besides one. That's fair adaption. The others ATs do it.
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problem is, man, you're not talking about a single power.
you're talking about the problem YOU had killing squishies when youre team went up against another team.
the only thing you noticed was hurricane.
you missed the mez protection, missed the heals and missed the damage coming in from the other team.
it wasn't your team against hurricane.
it was your team against theirs...and they brought a lot to the table. you can too with a little work.
trust me, i've seen it happen.
You know I dont like the fact that hurricane is being nerfed because of PvP, but I am not surprised. The only real way it will affect me is I most likely wont be taking it with my ice/storm now because all I was getting it for was the KB. The debuff wasnt even a thought really because my build is designed to stop groups from being able to attack not debuff them so the cant hit. So it goes into the list of what I call useless powers, that being defined as powers dose an effect that can be done more effectively by another power. Guess the extra slot goes to Gale.
Now what dose/has worried me is that the path they have chosen. Now every issue is a big "O I wonder what they are going to nerf next" and even the new powers are "O that wont last long before it is nerfed". There has been very poor use of pre existing zones i.e. danger zones (For evidence I give hollows compared to every other danger zone. I mean how long have people been asking for a TF for the ship in crash site?). And the general attitude of the MMO creators right now of "its our game and those that play have no rights but to pay, shut up, and play."(That is a real quote or close to from a dev from a major MMO in an article about MMOs in CGW and it was agreed upon by almost everyone interviewed). I am not saying that this is the general attitude of Cryptic but I do see how it has creped in.
Personally I feel (and I know feel is subjective) that the turmoil that Joe Shmoe is reading on these boards is costing them. The casual player that they are so fond of saying they are catering to is starting to get tired of having to rebuild there toon every few months or less. A lot of the new people I have played with are here because of friend and they are leaving, so now they are planning on leaving too. And you know every single person that I have played with and that has left has never truly been because of a nerf to a power (a couple have) but most have sited lack of content. So maybe just maybe next issue (we all knew this was going to be a CoV issue) it will be the start of all content issues. And we can start making more people happy and they will start staying. Personally, from past trends I dont see this happening but I will hope for the best.
I like many that others I have talked to are waiting for I8 to see what the devs do now that they have there balanced vision and there no more major nerfs we have everything just about were we want it Basically I guess its like this Dev team, more content (using zone you have, making more non PvP zones, and new powers/ATs, ect..) and I stay, keep spending all your time trying to figure out how to nerf powers and I and many others go very loudly into that good night. I am not calling devs out, giving ultimatums, or anything like that. What I am trying to tell you is, you have nerfed a lot of fun out of the game and its time to start putting a lot more fun back in even if it isnt totally balance. Its been 2 years now and i feel like i have been Beta testing for you for that time instead of playing a finished evolving game. And im sry but i starting to feel like you should pay me. 
Sry to all for long windedness of this post but this nerf is a small part of a larger problem.
Side note: Storm this post isnt directed at you , you just were the last post in the thread.
Broomhilda BS/Regen/BM Scrapper, Fiddle Faddle Shield/ElecM/BM Tank,
And many others..
Dev's With all the Great new content, Please!! dont forget to fix the bugs with the old content. There is a storm a brewing because they are not getting fixed. If its a problem that no one is reporting them? Well Maybe you need to look at your tech support then..
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Personally i would prefer they remove the repel from the pvp version rather than mess with the pulse time. After all, if players can eaily get thoguh the repel, whats the pint of it being there? Just remove it and leave the pve repel as it used to be.
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I agree with this. The repel really isn't much in PvP now, so might as well just get rid of it altogether and return the PvE hurricane to what it was (you know, useful for defenders).
Gutting Storm Summoning in PvE is unacceptable. 
WARNING: quite possibly my first CoH Forums rant. Ignore if you are so inclined.
Please add me to the list of people who could care less about PvP. Been there, done that enough to know for certain that it's not why I play this game. Fun now and then, but that's not where it's at for me really. If I cared about PvP at all I'd have already posted a ton of rants about how "unfair" force bubble or energy melee stuns, or <insert whatever power you like here> are. But I haven't. I mean complaining about being one-shotted by an assassin strike? Come on! That's why they're called "assassins." Just like hurricanes are called hurricanes for a reason too ...
So to see a PvP change take such a huge chunk of the fun of my playing my PvE-99.7%-of-the-time Storm Defender (who's still far from 50, which is about the only time I PvP with a character, after 50) rely honks me off.
I had just used my 34+ respec to switch from Flight to Teleport so that I could Mist up to a big group of mobs, cast Freezing Rain, shoot Tenebrous Tentacles, summon a Lightning Storm, teleport to the other side of the group, and push them back into the Storm. Good times! I was having a ball with that combo! Trapping a boss in a corner and throwing a tornado at him is good clean fun too! Bully the bully: what could be more super-heroic than that?
There's a reason why my top 4 characters are a tank, a scrapper who likes to tank, a storm defender who also likes to tank, and an MM: it's how I have fun! I do not appreciate PvP changes that severely alter my ability to have fun in PvE.
I haven't played since release without noticing a few things, and since you've indulged me thus far, I'll share some more thoughts ...
The way I see it, MMORPG PvP is just like collectible card gaming (you know, Magic and everything since): people who don't use a particular power/card/combo will always whine about said power/card/combo being overpowered. It doesn't matter that there are a number of ways to beat it. People are people, and over-competitive people don't like to lose ... ever. When they do lose, it's not their fault, it's always somebody else's. It has to be that their opponent used a cheap tactic or got lucky or whatever.
How do I know this? Because I've been there. I'm an overly competitive person myself. I'm playing this game (and largely avoiding PvP) because of it. There was a time when I was a regionally ranked player in a popular-at-the-time collectible card game. I picked the game up quicker than most, got good, won a lot, and kept winning. When I did lose, I told myself that it was because of cheap-tactic A or over-powered-combo B, or whatever. What's funny is that I would swear to avoid using said tactic/combo myself (even though I had the cards to do it) and instead vowed to find a way to beat it.
That's just how I dealt with it. I never once posted a nerf-this rant. It didn't matter how many other people were crying nerf, I considered it my job to figure out how to beat it. My job, not the makers of the game. But that was just me.
A funny thing about PvPing, collectible card gaming, and many other competitions that are completely irrelevent to the real world is that the people who don't get good and win a lot eventually quit and move onto something else, leaving just the "good" players to beat up on each other until the game dies.
To close, please don't kill my beloved Hurricane, at least in PvE. Do what you like with powers in PvP. PvP will never be 100% fair, and even if it was 100% fair, people would still say it wasn't, because in most any competition, there is a loser, and more often than not, the loser does not enjoy losing. This of course leaves only winners who then create more losers, and so on, until there is noone left. "There can be only one" may work for Highlander, but it makes for a lousy player base. I agree with an ealier poster: the future of this game lies not in PvP, but in new content, powersets, rewards, events and, in short, continuing to feel super. And one of my favorite ways to feel super in this game is to push the bad guys around, both figuratively, and in the case of my stormer, literally.
Thanks for your time.
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problem is, man, you're not talking about a single power.
you're talking about the problem YOU had killing squishies when youre team went up against another team.
the only thing you noticed was hurricane.
you missed the mez protection, missed the heals and missed the damage coming in from the other team.
it wasn't your team against hurricane.
it was your team against theirs...and they brought a lot to the table. you can too with a little work.
trust me, i've seen it happen.
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No. I'm talking about problems the team had taking out a Stormie with like 2 people on his/her team with more people on my team on numerous occasions. I'm not talking about mez protection that didn't happens, I'm not talking about buffs that didn't happen, I'm talking about players who couldn't even get near to touch someone with hurricane so the Stormy didn't even need heals. When 8 people who are melee are surrounding a stormy and can't touch him, that's a problem. Seem people pinned against walls and corners and bus stops is a problem. The devs think so too. I think it is/was/maybe still is overpowered in PvP. No one AT should have to turn on a toggle and just stand there and just use one power.
So Kidqwik what under level 25 power allows a defender to drop a tanks/scrapper/brutes toggle defensive power other than brawl? In fact the only toggle dropeers available to Storm Defenders are Thunder Clap, which has a very long animation time and only affects minions (which many do not take for that reason) and Lightning Cloud which can be avoided and is largely random.
It is ok for tanks to be essentialy immortal against a defender, but a defender should not have a defense against tanks? Yea I see where you are coming from.
Using buildings and corners tacticaly is unfair in your opinion, I guess you want to hose LOS to. Tactical considerations should be taken away from player decisions it seems. I am sure the blaster types would like that!
The game is clearly not fair because an entire group of players of melee only types were styimed by a power designed to protect against melee damage. What an injustice!! Rather than picking up a controler/dominator or any other class that has ranged damage you infer that melee players should be totaly protected from damage and be able to hit and kill anyone. Yea I see where you are coming from.
Storm Defenders were given Hurricane because they are already have weak to nonexistant defense against ranged attacks, especialy things with status effects like mez, slows, holds, and roots. They said at least they could have some defense against melee at a huge endurance cost. But you want to take that away too....
How nice that you want to be uber too. I have played a scrapper too btw and I was smart enough not let myself get pinned by a hurricane with the exception of teleport foe. That was kinda abusive, and annoying but no more annoying than being killed while I was held.
If any power is abusive in PvP it is teleport foe. Yet it remains.
I want to know why the devs feel its ok to totaly nerf storm defense which was already quite weak and give nothing in compensation?
Haven't storm defenders been screwed enough already? Snow Storm works better for controllers, Tornado does a better job disorienting for controllers, To hit debuffs have been nerfed hard with the schedule change on enhancements, in fact the only powers that work better for Storm Defenders than controllers is Steamy Mist and 02, and 02 is a serious ghetto heal, better than nothing.
Hurricane was nerfed to make it less abusive. It still works sorta like all the other powers that were still nerfed still work sorta. Join the club. It could have been wacked a lot harder and it still may given the way the devs work. Now Stormies can use more then one power in PvP like every AT should HAVE to do.
To Kidquik: did you actually read all of Stone's post? Your response leaves an awful lot of his points uncontested ...
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problem is, man, you're not talking about a single power.
you're talking about the problem YOU had killing squishies when youre team went up against another team.
the only thing you noticed was hurricane.
you missed the mez protection, missed the heals and missed the damage coming in from the other team.
it wasn't your team against hurricane.
it was your team against theirs...and they brought a lot to the table. you can too with a little work.
trust me, i've seen it happen.
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No. I'm talking about problems the team had taking out a Stormie with like 2 people on his/her team with more people on my team on numerous occasions. I'm not talking about mez protection that didn't happens, I'm not talking about buffs that didn't happen, I'm talking about players who couldn't even get near to touch someone with hurricane so the Stormy didn't even need heals. When 8 people who are melee are surrounding a stormy and can't touch him, that's a problem. Seem people pinned against walls and corners and bus stops is a problem. The devs think so too. I think it is/was/maybe still is overpowered in PvP. No one AT should have to turn on a toggle and just stand there and just use one power.
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man, i gotta see this dream team you're pvping with.
they sound awesome.
you mean to tell me...
1) no one on the team could kite the hurricane?
2) no one on the team had repel resistance?
3) no one on the team had a ranged attack capable of overcoming the storm's inherent healing rate?
4) no one on the team had a ranged mez?
5) no one on the team thought to buy a ranged mez?
6) no one on the team had tp foe?
7) no one on the team had sonic cage or detention field?
8) no one on the team had dispestion bubble or TK or force bolt or any other positioning power that could move the storm and render his teammates vulnerable?
9) no one on the team had any to-hit buffs that could break the hurricane debuff?
i'm sorry.
i just don't believe you.
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So Kidqwik what under level 25 power allows a defender to drop a tanks/scrapper/brutes toggle defensive power other than brawl? In fact the only toggle dropeers available to Storm Defenders are Thunder Clap, which has a very long animation time and only affects minions (which many do not take for that reason) and Lightning Cloud which can be avoided and is largely random.
It is ok for tanks to be essentialy immortal against a defender, but a defender should not have a defense against tanks? Yea I see where you are coming from.
Using buildings and corners tacticaly is unfair in your opinion, I guess you want to hose LOS to. Tactical considerations should be taken away from player decisions it seems. I am sure the blaster types would like that!
The game is clearly not fair because an entire group of players of melee only types were styimed by a power designed to protect against melee damage. What an injustice!! Rather than picking up a controler/dominator or any other class that has ranged damage you infer that melee players should be totaly protected from damage and be able to hit and kill anyone. Yea I see where you are coming from.
Storm Defenders were given Hurricane because they are already have weak to nonexistant defense against ranged attacks, especialy things with status effects like mez, slows, holds, and roots. They said at least they could have some defense against melee at a huge endurance cost. But you want to take that away too....
How nice that you want to be uber too. I have played a scrapper too btw and I was smart enough not let myself get pinned by a hurricane with the exception of teleport foe. That was kinda abusive, and annoying but no more annoying than being killed while I was held.
If any power is abusive in PvP it is teleport foe. Yet it remains.
I want to know why the devs feel its ok to totaly nerf storm defense which was already quite weak and give nothing in compensation?
Haven't storm defenders been screwed enough already? Snow Storm works better for controllers, Tornado does a better job disorienting for controllers, To hit debuffs have been nerfed hard with the schedule change on enhancements, in fact the only powers that work better for Storm Defenders than controllers is Steamy Mist and 02, and 02 is a serious ghetto heal, better than nothing.
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Yes, I do. Storm never reads all mine and I continuously rehash them after what I had said was ignored. I guess Stone didn't read all my other posts or address those points either in a way other than someone desperately trying to not have their power nerfed. My previous posts state my reasonings for nerfing hurricane and each time I say the same thing over and over, I get a reply back from someone whose power that they don't want nerfed give me a laundry list of things of things to do that are too extensive to take out ONE power. Many of the other single powers that are/were over powered were nerfed. No one likes the, yada yada. I guess I could say to Stormies now "get a team to hide behind since they hid behind you" but they won't see the fairness in that either even when I've been told "get a team to take out a stormie". Balance in PvP, even though it's sort of broken in many ways in this game to begin with since ATs and powersets were made for PvE will require nerfs. Will it ever be perfect? No. I'd never expect an empathy healer to be able to Heal her opponent to death. But somehow, someway, he/she should have a chance at defeating, not just constantly tossing another toon around, an opponent. Now Stormies will have to make use of their other powers more, slot them appropriately(like I keep being told), etc etc. Same rules and annoyances should apply to all.
this is like talking to the wall.
Sigh. Accept your nerf and learn to live with it. There are many other people out there who play different ATs that have had to alter their play style against their will for PvP nerfs. You're just a new member to the Club of Nerf and will learn to "adapt".
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Yes, I do. Storm never reads all mine and I continuously rehash them after what I had said was ignored. I guess Stone didn't read all my other posts or address those points either in a way other than someone desperately trying to not have their power nerfed. My previous posts state my reasonings for nerfing hurricane and each time I say the same thing over and over, I get a reply back from someone whose power that they don't want nerfed give me a laundry list of things of things to do that are too extensive to take out ONE power. Many of the other single powers that are/were over powered were nerfed. No one likes the, yada yada. I guess I could say to Stormies now "get a team to hide behind since they hid behind you" but they won't see the fairness in that either even when I've been told "get a team to take out a stormie". Balance in PvP, even though it's sort of broken in many ways in this game to begin with since ATs and powersets were made for PvE will require nerfs. Will it ever be perfect? No. I'd never expect an empathy healer to be able to Heal her opponent to death. But somehow, someway, he/she should have a chance at defeating, not just constantly tossing another toon around, an opponent. Now Stormies will have to make use of their other powers more, slot them appropriately(like I keep being told), etc etc. Same rules and annoyances should apply to all.
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oh i read them all alright.
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problem is, man, you're not talking about a single power.
you're talking about the problem YOU had killing squishies when youre team went up against another team.
the only thing you noticed was hurricane.
you missed the mez protection, missed the heals and missed the damage coming in from the other team.
it wasn't your team against hurricane.
it was your team against theirs...and they brought a lot to the table. you can too with a little work.
trust me, i've seen it happen.
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No. I'm talking about problems the team had taking out a Stormie with like 2 people on his/her team with more people on my team on numerous occasions. I'm not talking about mez protection that didn't happens, I'm not talking about buffs that didn't happen, I'm talking about players who couldn't even get near to touch someone with hurricane so the Stormy didn't even need heals. When 8 people who are melee are surrounding a stormy and can't touch him, that's a problem. Seem people pinned against walls and corners and bus stops is a problem. The devs think so too. I think it is/was/maybe still is overpowered in PvP. No one AT should have to turn on a toggle and just stand there and just use one power.
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In MMO's I've found that when you have a numerically superior force, and are consistantly beaten then you need to seriously take a look at two likely explainations.
1.) They are much better players than you and your team. It happens alot, there will always be someone better than you. It's hard to accept, but it's there.
or
2.) The other players are average, but your team are a bunch of mindless fools. Even harder to accept, but it's still there.
Which one are you? Eight people continually trying to run up to a debuff / repel field and melee?
You tell me.
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Sigh. Accept your nerf and learn to live with it. There are many other people out there who play different ATs that have had to alter their play style against their will for PvP nerfs. You're just a new member to the Club of Nerf and will learn to "adapt".
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i love it.
"adapt."
this, from the guy who refuses to lift a finger to do anything to fight a storm.
"adapt."
you mean, like PMing cuppa and asking for a nerf?
is that how we adapt?
thanks for the advice, man.
brilliant.
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this is like talking to the wall.
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I think it's more like two walls talking to each other. :-)
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this is like talking to the wall.
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I think it's more like two walls talking to each other. :-)
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bah!
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Stormbringer,
Really, I do understand the things you're pointing out. Maybe not in the same detail you might from more extensive PvP planning and analysis, but I really do get that the Hurricane alone didn't come along and win the battle for the heroes. They had to make good use of it. They had to be smart or at least not stupid.
All I'm trying to say is that I thing the addition of the Hurricane gave them something to work with that was, IMO, more sweeping in impact than even somthing like an empath. (Who trust me, I know full well can be a wicked thing and makes a primary target on the battlefield). It's an opinion I think is well formed, but I acknowledge it is an opinion.
Last night, a controller came into SC. She (well, at least it was a female character) was Ice/Storm. She had decided not to use Hurricane in PvP because she felt people had more fun if she didn't. I don't want to debate the merits of that decision - it's just background for what I'm about to say next.
Just with her holds, debuffs, heals and liberal use of Diciplines/Break Frees (to keep from being cancelled by other holders), she had a strong effect on the battlefield. With buddies around looking out for her, she was reasonably hard to kill. And all that was without Hurricane. If she'd been using it, I do think it could have driven the villain players away, because the villains in the zone didn't have the tools one can use to surgically nullify her. Specifically, for whatever reason TP foe isn't real common. Heck, it seems less common now on both sides of open PvP. I used to get tele-ganked quite a lot.
Anyway, I'm not really arguing with you at this point. I'm just trying to explain my viewpoint. You have a very analytical view, and in particular you are coming from the perspective that "we" (the villains) should always bring the tools needed to best counter the hero powers. That makes a ton of sense when building a competition team for something like a base raid or an arena match. I'm coming from a holistic perspective based on the more random association of open PvP, where I might enter with one or two SG-mates and just make do with whoever else is in the zone. It's in that latter setting that things like Hurricane seem so powerful.
We'll see. I'm hopeful that the devs can do somthing to the power that's less distasteful to its users and fans. PvP != PvE!
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i do think the villains need more tools, uberguy.
i'm not real impressed with the selection of epic powers for villains at this point, but i'll hold out judgment on these 'til they're implemented.
for my part i'd like to see heroes and villains have access to the same sets.
and, if people were abusing hurricane in pvp base raids to the extent a fix was needed, i'd have liked to see the devs fix that and only that. my preferred solution would have been a 30 second maximum before a repel resistance kicks in...or some variation on that. i think the solution they implemented was not quite right. yes, it may have corrected the problem the devs set out to fix, but it also opened storm guys and gals to blaster melee attacks which happen to be devastating in pvp and compromise my effectiveness on a team. that is my one true lament about this supposed fix.