Massive Hurricane nerf
By
aqshy2004,
Posted on: 2006-04-11 24:48 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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problem is, man, you're not talking about a single power.
you're talking about the problem YOU had killing squishies when youre team went up against another team.
the only thing you noticed was hurricane.
you missed the mez protection, missed the heals and missed the damage coming in from the other team.
it wasn't your team against hurricane.
it was your team against theirs...and they brought a lot to the table. you can too with a little work.
trust me, i've seen it happen.
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No. I'm talking about problems the team had taking out a Stormie with like 2 people on his/her team with more people on my team on numerous occasions. I'm not talking about mez protection that didn't happens, I'm not talking about buffs that didn't happen, I'm talking about players who couldn't even get near to touch someone with hurricane so the Stormy didn't even need heals. When 8 people who are melee are surrounding a stormy and can't touch him, that's a problem. Seem people pinned against walls and corners and bus stops is a problem. The devs think so too. I think it is/was/maybe still is overpowered in PvP. No one AT should have to turn on a toggle and just stand there and just use one power.
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In MMO's I've found that when you have a numerically superior force, and are consistantly beaten then you need to seriously take a look at two likely explainations.
1.) They are much better players than you and your team. It happens alot, there will always be someone better than you. It's hard to accept, but it's there.
or
2.) The other players are average, but your team are a bunch of mindless fools. Even harder to accept, but it's still there.
Which one are you? Eight people continually trying to run up to a debuff / repel field and melee?
You tell me.
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I guess it would be similiar to 8 players running up to someone turning on the non nerfed phase shift, MoG, or IH. Perma God mode was nerfed. Like I said, they could have made it a click! They may still! I know nerfs suck, but you could have got the nerf bat swung a lot harder than no longer being able to toss everyone around all the time.
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Sigh. Accept your nerf and learn to live with it. There are many other people out there who play different ATs that have had to alter their play style against their will for PvP nerfs. You're just a new member to the Club of Nerf and will learn to "adapt".
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i love it.
"adapt."
this, from the guy who refuses to lift a finger to do anything to fight a storm.
"adapt."
you mean, like PMing cuppa and asking for a nerf?
is that how we adapt?
thanks for the advice, man.
brilliant.
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You gotta be kidding. I'm not the player who stands there using one power and one power only except if it drops, then you use a travel power to haul [censored]... That's sort of a more of a refusual to diversify, adapt, or lift a finger if you ask me. 
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nope.
you're the player who refuses to question his build, refuses to intelligently employ temp powers, refuses to diversify his team...etc.
i dunno man...seems the only thing you've done to "adapt" is call for a nerf.
gratz on that.
way to adapt.
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problem is, man, you're not talking about a single power.
you're talking about the problem YOU had killing squishies when youre team went up against another team.
the only thing you noticed was hurricane.
you missed the mez protection, missed the heals and missed the damage coming in from the other team.
it wasn't your team against hurricane.
it was your team against theirs...and they brought a lot to the table. you can too with a little work.
trust me, i've seen it happen.
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No. I'm talking about problems the team had taking out a Stormie with like 2 people on his/her team with more people on my team on numerous occasions. I'm not talking about mez protection that didn't happens, I'm not talking about buffs that didn't happen, I'm talking about players who couldn't even get near to touch someone with hurricane so the Stormy didn't even need heals. When 8 people who are melee are surrounding a stormy and can't touch him, that's a problem. Seem people pinned against walls and corners and bus stops is a problem. The devs think so too. I think it is/was/maybe still is overpowered in PvP. No one AT should have to turn on a toggle and just stand there and just use one power.
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In MMO's I've found that when you have a numerically superior force, and are consistantly beaten then you need to seriously take a look at two likely explainations.
1.) They are much better players than you and your team. It happens alot, there will always be someone better than you. It's hard to accept, but it's there.
or
2.) The other players are average, but your team are a bunch of mindless fools. Even harder to accept, but it's still there.
Which one are you? Eight people continually trying to run up to a debuff / repel field and melee?
You tell me.
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I guess it would be similiar to 8 players running up to someone turning on the non nerfed phase shift, MoG, or IH. Perma God mode was nerfed. Like I said, they could have made it a click! They may still! I know nerfs suck, but you could have got the nerf bat swung a lot harder than no longer being able to toss everyone around all the time.
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i gotta meet these 8 players.
This is getting dull.
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Sigh. Accept your nerf and learn to live with it. There are many other people out there who play different ATs that have had to alter their play style against their will for PvP nerfs. You're just a new member to the Club of Nerf and will learn to "adapt".
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i love it.
"adapt."
this, from the guy who refuses to lift a finger to do anything to fight a storm.
"adapt."
you mean, like PMing cuppa and asking for a nerf?
is that how we adapt?
thanks for the advice, man.
brilliant.
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You gotta be kidding. I'm not the player who stands there using one power and one power only except if it drops, then you use a travel power to haul [censored]... That's sort of a more of a refusual to diversify, adapt, or lift a finger if you ask me.
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nope.
you're the player who refuses to question his build, refuses to intelligently employ temp powers, refuses to diversify his team...etc.
i dunno man...seems the only thing you've done to "adapt" is call for a nerf.
gratz on that.
way to adapt.
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You just proved my point why hurricane needed the nerf bat. All those things melee is supposed to do for ONE power? Why? Cause you should be able to use one power and that's it while everyone else should have to do x amount of things like waste inf on non working temp powers, form teams that have range or mez, change travel powers, etc, ALL to deal with ONE power???? Why it needed to be nerfed. Come to Justice, let my Stalker give u a hug.
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This is getting dull.
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yup.
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This is getting dull.
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Now take your medicine and like it!
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Sigh. Accept your nerf and learn to live with it. There are many other people out there who play different ATs that have had to alter their play style against their will for PvP nerfs. You're just a new member to the Club of Nerf and will learn to "adapt".
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i love it.
"adapt."
this, from the guy who refuses to lift a finger to do anything to fight a storm.
"adapt."
you mean, like PMing cuppa and asking for a nerf?
is that how we adapt?
thanks for the advice, man.
brilliant.
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You gotta be kidding. I'm not the player who stands there using one power and one power only except if it drops, then you use a travel power to haul [censored]... That's sort of a more of a refusual to diversify, adapt, or lift a finger if you ask me.
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nope.
you're the player who refuses to question his build, refuses to intelligently employ temp powers, refuses to diversify his team...etc.
i dunno man...seems the only thing you've done to "adapt" is call for a nerf.
gratz on that.
way to adapt.
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You just proved my point why hurricane needed the nerf bat. All those things melee is supposed to do for ONE power? Why? Cause you should be able to use one power and that's it while everyone else should have to do x amount of things like waste inf on non working temp powers, form teams that have range or mez, change travel powers, etc, ALL to deal with ONE power???? Why it needed to be nerfed. Come to Justice, let my Stalker give u a hug.
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scroll up.
re-read more carefully.
try again.
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This is getting dull.
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Now take your medicine and like it!
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OK, it's dull, and you're flame bait. Lots of the nerfs were unneeded. Storm already was needlessly weak relative to other sets. They got hit extra hard. Regardless of whether you agree or not, they did. As hard as Tanks did before, and as hard as regen did. None of the sets needed it, and whether or not it will be admitted to by the devs (it won't), it was because of PVP and the wildly obnoxious and vocal component of hardcore PVPers.
As for taking medicine, I think you need some to stop the keyboard diaherea problem you seem to be having.
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This is getting dull.
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Now take your medicine and like it!
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No.
I already got hit by the IH nerfs. The last of which was a poorly thought out solution for a number of reasons. The travesty that is the IH clicky does not justify another poor solution.
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This is getting dull.
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Now take your medicine and like it!
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No.
I already got hit by the IH nerfs. The last of which was a poorly thought out solution for a number of reasons. The travesty that is the IH clicky does not justify another poor solution.
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i agree.
this was not an appropriate solution to the purported problem.
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This is getting dull.
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Now take your medicine and like it!
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OK, it's dull, and you're flame bait. Lots of the nerfs were unneeded. Storm already was needlessly weak relative to other sets. They got hit extra hard. Regardless of whether you agree or not, they did. As hard as Tanks did before, and as hard as regen did. None of the sets needed it, and whether or not it will be admitted to by the devs (it won't), it was because of PVP and the wildly obnoxious and vocal component of hardcore PVPers.
As for taking medicine, I think you need some to stop the keyboard diaherea problem you seem to be having.
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I agree to your comments about many powers being nerfed for PvP. I've always said the same thing and the bs the devs have said on why it's done. Regen also got the "it'll save stamina to make IH a click" nonsense. Regen has Stamina and QR! Reduce end enhancements worked great if you used them on top of that. Endurance was never an issue! So no, I don't like nerfs to begin with. But because of nerfs to other powers, they have to nerf even more powers to make thing more balanced. I think hurricane needed to be nerfed for PvP. Not for PvE, because it never really seemed to work that great when Tsoo Sorcerers used it against my stalker.
Shrugs. Guess you guys will have to learn to live with the nerf. Go yell at Statesman though. He's the much more fun to loathe than me.
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This is getting dull.
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Now take your medicine and like it!
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No.
I already got hit by the IH nerfs. The last of which was a poorly thought out solution for a number of reasons. The travesty that is the IH clicky does not justify another poor solution.
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i agree.
this was not an appropriate solution to the purported problem.
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I agree too. They could have reduced the power of IH and left it a toggle. Why they ever added heals to Integration was a completely dumb thing to do. Integration shouldn't have anything to do with heals! They should have left Int the way it is, weakened IH and left it a toggle, voila. But the devs don't think rationally like that. They think extreme make no good sense nerf sense.
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This is getting dull.
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Now take your medicine and like it!
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OK, it's dull, and you're flame bait. Lots of the nerfs were unneeded. Storm already was needlessly weak relative to other sets. They got hit extra hard. Regardless of whether you agree or not, they did. As hard as Tanks did before, and as hard as regen did. None of the sets needed it, and whether or not it will be admitted to by the devs (it won't), it was because of PVP and the wildly obnoxious and vocal component of hardcore PVPers.
As for taking medicine, I think you need some to stop the keyboard diaherea problem you seem to be having.
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I agree to your comments about many powers being nerfed for PvP. I've always said the same thing and the bs the devs have said on why it's done. Regen also got the "it'll save stamina to make IH a click" nonsense. Regen has Stamina and QR! Reduce end enhancements worked great if you used them on top of that. Endurance was never an issue! So no, I don't like nerfs to begin with. But because of nerfs to other powers, they have to nerf even more powers to make thing more balanced. I think hurricane needed to be nerfed for PvP. Not for PvE, because it never really seemed to work that great when Tsoo Sorcerers used it against my stalker.
Shrugs. Guess you guys will have to learn to live with the nerf. Go yell at Statesman though. He's the much more fun to loathe than me.
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i dunno...
your tenacity seems to suggest you get very excited by nerfs.
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This is getting dull.
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Now take your medicine and like it!
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OK, it's dull, and you're flame bait. Lots of the nerfs were unneeded. Storm already was needlessly weak relative to other sets. They got hit extra hard. Regardless of whether you agree or not, they did. As hard as Tanks did before, and as hard as regen did. None of the sets needed it, and whether or not it will be admitted to by the devs (it won't), it was because of PVP and the wildly obnoxious and vocal component of hardcore PVPers.
As for taking medicine, I think you need some to stop the keyboard diaherea problem you seem to be having.
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I agree to your comments about many powers being nerfed for PvP. I've always said the same thing and the bs the devs have said on why it's done. Regen also got the "it'll save stamina to make IH a click" nonsense. Regen has Stamina and QR! Reduce end enhancements worked great if you used them on top of that. Endurance was never an issue! So no, I don't like nerfs to begin with. But because of nerfs to other powers, they have to nerf even more powers to make thing more balanced. I think hurricane needed to be nerfed for PvP. Not for PvE, because it never really seemed to work that great when Tsoo Sorcerers used it against my stalker.
Shrugs. Guess you guys will have to learn to live with the nerf. Go yell at Statesman though. He's the much more fun to loathe than me.
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i dunno...
your tenacity seems to suggest you get very excited by nerfs.
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I got pretty excited as well, when the general tohit debuff came in, because the reasoning--as demonstrated by our basically calling the Devs out 20 ways to Sunday on the perceived duplicity--led to Statesman having to finally be called to post. Which, of course, garnered no follow up. But that's a whole other subject that boils my blood sometimes.
I except after I7 we'll have more dev interaction again. We better.
This all reeks of chattering for chatterings sake. If a nerf comes in that they don't try to sugarcoat or play dumb with, it doesn't bother me AS much. Because some things unfortunately (but not forever, oh yes) are unavoidable or changeable. But there will come a day when that changes too.
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This is getting dull.
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Now take your medicine and like it!
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OK, it's dull, and you're flame bait. Lots of the nerfs were unneeded. Storm already was needlessly weak relative to other sets. They got hit extra hard. Regardless of whether you agree or not, they did. As hard as Tanks did before, and as hard as regen did. None of the sets needed it, and whether or not it will be admitted to by the devs (it won't), it was because of PVP and the wildly obnoxious and vocal component of hardcore PVPers.
As for taking medicine, I think you need some to stop the keyboard diaherea problem you seem to be having.
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I agree to your comments about many powers being nerfed for PvP. I've always said the same thing and the bs the devs have said on why it's done. Regen also got the "it'll save stamina to make IH a click" nonsense. Regen has Stamina and QR! Reduce end enhancements worked great if you used them on top of that. Endurance was never an issue! So no, I don't like nerfs to begin with. But because of nerfs to other powers, they have to nerf even more powers to make thing more balanced. I think hurricane needed to be nerfed for PvP. Not for PvE, because it never really seemed to work that great when Tsoo Sorcerers used it against my stalker.
Shrugs. Guess you guys will have to learn to live with the nerf. Go yell at Statesman though. He's the much more fun to loathe than me.
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i dunno...
your tenacity seems to suggest you get very excited by nerfs.
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Only when they are powers that I think are overpowered for PvP. I didn't get excited about suppression or tanker nerfs. I didn't get really excited when they nerfed Phase Shift or my Peacebringer's Quantum flight. I didn't get excited when the nerfed MoG. For IH I got into name calling and stuff similiar to what some Stormies have done when Hurricane got nerfed.
I feel your nerf pain, my main hero is a Regen Scrapper I've had since prelease of CoH. So talk about having the "adapt". I do feel that Hurricane needed to be nerfed for PvP though just like IH and MoG were. I don't really even fight hero to hero so saying it's wanting revenge is kinda pointless. I can sit on a ledge as a stalker and watch below what one power that one player has on is pwning countless players with and come to my conclusions from that alone if I needed to.
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I can sit on a ledge as a stalker and watch below what one power that one player has on is pwning countless players with and come to my conclusions from that alone if I needed to.
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i humbly submit that you are mistaken in your assessment of the above referenced dynamic.
that or you're just making it up.
I love it when people use the words "fair" or "unfair" to describe anything at all in PvP; it's downright comical. You know why? I'll say it again because it bears repeating ... PvP isn't supposed to be fair. Chess is fair. You know why, because everyone starts with the exact same "powers." Is that what you PvPers want? Everyone to be exactly the same? City of ... Clones? Wow, that'd be exciting, wouldn't it?
Again, not an avid PvPer, so if that is what you want for YOUR game, so be it. Just leave MY game alone. I like it the way it is: pinning bosses in corners, getting hella aggro, knocking mobs around, getting mezzed, etc. That's what's fun for me!
So keep your whining to yourself, thank you. We all know that the squeaky wheel gets the oil, but because the oil isn't the easiest thing in the world to deal with, it invariably gets slopped over to the other side of things where it's not wanted or needed. So let's all just keep our mouths shut OK?
I don't care about fair, and I don't care about over-powered. I care about having a good time when I game. That's why I got out of collectible card gaming and came to CoH: I wasn't having fun anymore (see my earlier post if you like).
Again, do what you like with PvP. Just leave my Stormy out of it, please.
Wanna know whats ironic? I never pvped with my storm cause he was way to easy to beat. Hurricanne was like a giant kick me sign for anyone with any mez or ranged power. It honestly wasnt worht playing when your constantly held then 1-2 shotted.
KidQwik, your so full of it, its not even funny. Yes players should have to find a way around other players powers. No stormies COULD NOT get away with using just one power. How am i supposed to kill you with hurricanne? It does no damage, so therefore i must use at least 2 powers to kill you. Combine that with extremely low damage and your gonna have to add in more powers needed to defeat you. Its laughable that you clam stormies only need one power, when from what i have experiences, stormies use all of their powers constantly. In a given fight i will most likely use 85% of all of my powers.
You say its unfair that melee should have to do alot to get around one power. Well guess what? defenders DONT EVEN GET THE OPTION of getting around a whole slew of powers. Mez? oooo BF until we run out, but wait we also need acc for perception, dam if we ever want to kill something, blues, cause storm is end intensive...
As a melee you have a whole list of possible tactics to take out storm, and what do you do? complain that its even necesary. How you even think turning hurricanne into a click is feasible is beyond me. Its not like IH, it has a vast effect upoun otheres around you. You NEED to be able to turn it off.
You show very little understanding of the set and defenders in general, yet you go around proclaiming that its good that it got nerfed, because you did too. Since when has two wrongs made a right?
PVP in this game is TEAM based. If you cant be bothered to create a balanced team, then why should you have the right to complain about your in-ability to adapt as the situation calls? A team of 8 melee SHOULD be gimped. They should be easily beaten by any balanced team. Over specializing and over loading on one or two types of AT should be highly discouraged in this game. It creates imbalances.
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
From Castle in dev digest:
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This is as good a place to put this, as any:
I checked in a few Hurricane changes today that QA is going to look at. In Theory, these changes should mean that for PvE, Hurricane acts Exactly as it did before the previous change, while in PvP, it should act exactly as it does currently. Hopefully this change will get a green light from QA -- I've spent quite a bit of time on it over the last few days.
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At least we'll have the repel effect back for PvE. I'm guessing the to-hit debuff change is going to stay in place though since he's only talking about a change specific to hurricane. I wonder how this change is being put into effect exactly, and what this will do the endurance costs in PvP vs. PvE.
Sing halleluah!
I can live with the To Hit Debuff Schedule change. It was the combination of the two changes in PvE (along with the 'PvP-only rationale' for it being nerfed to begin with) that got my Storm-riding panties in a bunch. PvP can go blow my foghorn. It's nice to see that our PvE ravings weren't in vain.
As the end cost is per tick, I suspect that PvE Hurricane will be back to relative normality.
A guide to the deranged, degraded inhabitants of the forums.
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From Castle in dev digest:
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This is as good a place to put this, as any:
I checked in a few Hurricane changes today that QA is going to look at. In Theory, these changes should mean that for PvE, Hurricane acts Exactly as it did before the previous change, while in PvP, it should act exactly as it does currently. Hopefully this change will get a green light from QA -- I've spent quite a bit of time on it over the last few days.
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At least we'll have the repel effect back for PvE. I'm guessing the to-hit debuff change is going to stay in place though since he's only talking about a change specific to hurricane. I wonder how this change is being put into effect exactly, and what this will do the endurance costs in PvP vs. PvE.
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i applaud castle's effort here and the attention he's given the player base.
still have to say, even for pvp, the fix does more than it intended. instead of just making it impossible to pin an opponant in a corner for the duration of a base raid, this "fix" opens storms up to a significant problem that had nothing to do with the original issue.
storm is now extremely vulnerable to blaster and defender melee
this will seriously impact a defender's survivability in the pvp game.
it will impact a controller's survivability too. however, controllers have their (very effective) primaries to assist them in picking up the slack. a defender's secondary is very weak in pvp. it will be woefully insufficient when it comes to dealing with the host of new dangerous opponants a storm finds himself dealing with in pvp.
remember guys...
storms have no self heal
storms have no mez protection
storms have no ranged defense
storms NOW HAVE extremely limited melee defense
they do not need this nerf.
For the people who want the link
Just because I have it handy...
>.>
And to get my "told you so..." in 
Wow, I'm kind of amazed, and quite thankful.
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Sigh. Accept your nerf and learn to live with it. There are many other people out there who play different ATs that have had to alter their play style against their will for PvP nerfs. You're just a new member to the Club of Nerf and will learn to "adapt".
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i love it.
"adapt."
this, from the guy who refuses to lift a finger to do anything to fight a storm.
"adapt."
you mean, like PMing cuppa and asking for a nerf?
is that how we adapt?
thanks for the advice, man.
brilliant.
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You gotta be kidding. I'm not the player who stands there using one power and one power only except if it drops, then you use a travel power to haul [censored]... That's sort of a more of a refusual to diversify, adapt, or lift a finger if you ask me.