ESTorm

Looks interesting. More villain and hero combine missions would be great. But I would have like to see some new power sets. How about a motorcycle travel power. They could do it, I mean they have jetpacks so why not.

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I only got to about level 8 or so with my electric brute but it isn't very inspiring outside of it looks spiffy. Just another rehash power. More of the same with slight variations. GIVE US AN ACUTAL NEW POWER SET NOT DUPLICATIONS OF WHAT IS ALREADY OUT THERE WITH NEW ANIMATIONS!!!!!

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Well, lemme think here:

Art-Design: 2 months
Motion Capture/Armature Time : 3 months
Collision Testing : 6 months



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It takes 2 months to change the color of existing lightining animations from bluish white to red? 3 months to copy over existing motion capture from existing powers? And 6 months to test for collisions in a game where you hit your target when you are around corners and 50 yards out of melee range and when they are most likely using cut and paste collision code anyway. New NPCs are fine as long as they are not rehashed modifications of existing npcs. The new mayhem missions are good. It would be nice if they came up with a more original powerset that hasn't pretty much already been done in game.

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I'm more of an instant gratification-type person and don't really want to wait the amount of time it takes to satisfy your UPPER CASE WHINING.

I'd rather they spend the time adding new zones, adding more villain/hero NPCs, y'know.. more world affecting stuff.

I would like to see Elec balanced out more than anything else. The same animations with different flashies is good for me.

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Would love to see some level of customization of appearance for mastermind pets sometime down the road.

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This thread is solely for discussions regarding Mastermind – Thugs (Primary Set). From the Issue 7 Training Room patch notes:

"New Power Sets

Mastermind Primary – Thugs"

All off topic posts will be removed. Please do not post bugs/feedback/balance issues before testing this content. All bugs/feedback/balance issues should be posted AFTER playing a Mastermind Thug.

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Maybe have a human sounding whicle than the plastic toy type.

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1) PLEASE find another emote for thugs, i can imagion the fotm's all thug mm's and when they summon their punks, the whistling gonna be horrorible, it's cool for while, but seriously people will just learn to shut their sound off cause it's gonna be VERY annoying....

2) my god i almost thought Steve Urkle from family matters was my thug!!! please make the punks more thugy wifebeater shirts or tank top punks, street pants or shorts, NOT KHAKI's!! lol...

but anyhow, i'm so gonna roll a thug/dark likew i planned, just hope these short issues do get some help =D

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The Thugs are crackheads I am sure that is why they behave as they do.

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Not sure if this is should go under Thugs or Bodyguard, and it may be premature. When I'm putting my pets into Def/Follow mode, they seem to go crazy and run all over the place. I have 5 MM characters on live, and my main in CoV beta was an MM. I'm used to the quirky behavior that comes along with MM pets, but I'm seeing some particularily stupid behavior from the pets.

For instance, when I first started off in Mercy near Kalinda, I summoned a Punk and put him in Def/Follow. He proceeded to follow me for a few seconds, then started running back and forth for about 30 seconds. He then ran up to the edge of the fort wall and jumped over. He managed to make his way back up by the ramps, then proceeded to jump over again. I seen similar behavior before, but only when teamed with other MMs and the pets run off to help them. I wasn't teamed here tho, and I've never noticed a pet do that before.

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I only got to about level 8 or so with my electric brute but it isn't very inspiring outside of it looks spiffy. Just another rehash power. More of the same with slight variations. GIVE US AN ACUTAL NEW POWER SET NOT DUPLICATIONS OF WHAT IS ALREADY OUT THERE WITH NEW ANIMATIONS!!!!!

Since when did ideas allegedly from the forums automatically meant they were good ideas. Allegedly (and I would have to see the posts first hand to believe it) Supression was an idea from the forums and that was obviously the worst change in COH history when it first came out. Every tweak in the game for the last year seems to have been for the worst. I say less nerfing and tweaking until you introduce more significant content, powers and archtypes. Then you have something to tweak.

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First: we are NOT changing Defense Debuff Enhancements at all. This was an error in the patch notes.

Let me clarify a few things about the To Hit Debuff Enhancement change (from Schedule “A“ or 8/16/33 to Schedule “ B“ or 5/10/20).

_Castle_ was right that the decision was affected by Hamidon Enhancements though this was not the primary reason for the change. We needed to change the way To Hit Debuff Enhancements worked because of the upcoming I7 change to the To Hit calculations. There have always been some issues with Defense and Resistance. The former was affected by level differences, while the latter was not. For example, an even con would have a base to hit value of %, while a Boss 2 levels higher than a player would have a %. But if a player had damage resistance, it would apply the same discount to damage regardless of the mob’s level.

In order to balance the playing field, we decided to give mobs the same base To Hit value instead (this was, in fact, brought up on the forums!). Now all mobs, regardless of level, have a base to hit of 50%. The only difference between ranks of mobs (boss, lieutenant and minion) and levels is the Accuracy.

In order to decipher this a little bit easier, let’s take a look at the to hit formula.

(Base To Hit + To Hit Buffs - (To Hit Debuffs * Combat Mod) – Defense) capped at 5% or 95% * Accuracy (capped at 5% or 95%, again)

In the case of the Base To Hit – Defense, the value is floored at ..05 or 5%. It can’t go below that. Similarly, the result after being multiplied by Accuracy can’t go higher than .95 or 95%

The To Hit chance also increased over level. A +1 level had a 1.05 modifier, +2 level 1.1 and +3 1.15. For example, the base to hit chance of a lieutenant +2 levels was .58*1.1 or 63.8%.

Now let’s take a look at the effect that the To Hit change has on the To Hit Debuff Enhancement change with Radiation Infection and a Defender.

Before

Radiation Infection has a base To Hit debuff of 2.5 * the Defender’s Archetype boost of 0.125 = 0.3125. With 2 SO’s under the Schedule “A“ (a 66% increase to the Debuff), the end result would be 0.5187.

Here’s a breakdown of how this would play out against various ranks and levels

Even Con
Minion .5 (Base to Hit) -0.5187 (Radiation Infection To Hit Debuff) = -0.0187 or 5% chance to hit (minimum before Accuracy modifications)
Lieutenant 5.66%
Boss 13.13%

+1 Level
Minion 8.32%
Lieutenant 15.85%
Boss 23.32%

+2 Levels
Minion 18.50%
Lieutenant 26.03%
Boss 33.50%

+3 Levels
Minion 31.28%
Lieutenant 38.81%
Boss 46.28%

After the I7 change

Instead of changing the base to hit chance, we instead are changing Accuracy. Take an even con boss: his To Hit is only .5, but his Accuracy is 1.3. The net effect is that a boss still hits someone 65% of the time against someone without Defense, but with Defense, the equation changes substantially.

Let’s take Radiation Infection again. It’s a Schedule “B” now; with 2 SO’s, the net result would be 0.3123 * 1.4 = 0.4372.

Every single mob has now been given Accuracy to make it so that their base To Hit value is only .5 rather than the values you see above. In addition, higher ranks have an inherent resistance to To Hit Debuffs (.1 for Lts., .2 for Bosses, .3 for AVs).

I’ll work it out a little more fully here with the To Hit Formula. Taking that boss mentioned above, his To Hit would work out like this…

(0.5 - (0.4375*.8)) * 1.3 = 0.1950 or 19.50%.

Whereas previously, the To Hit chance had a level modifier, now that applies to Accuracy. +1 level is 1.1, +2 1.2, and +3 1.3. A lt.'s base To Hit is then .5*1.15*1.2 or .69/69%.

I’ll apply it below so that you can see the changes in action.

Even Con
Minion 6.25%
Lieutenant 12.23%
Boss 19.50%

+1 Level
Minion 11.69%
Lieutenant 18.43%
Boss 26.46%

+2 Levels
Minion 18.00%
Lieutenant 25.54%
Boss 34.32%

+3 Levels
Minion 28.03%
Lieutenant 36.51%
Boss 46.05%

Ideally, the Enhancement change should’ve gone hand in hand with I7. To be honest, there was an error there. Unfortunately, we discovered that we couldn’t pull the change out without jeopardizing the I7 release schedule. Right now, QA (at NCSoft and Cryptic) is working away at I7 and shaking out bugs. If we were to roll back this change, our teams would need to put I7 aside and retest the current build. I made the decision to stay the course instead.

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Is it me or does hurricane now behave more like repel where you have drops in endurance when opponents are pushed back? If they changed it yet again I have to reslot it and even respec my character yet again. I had endurance reducers on it because it was a constant drain before.

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It's not glaringly apparent, until you see a mob pushed back for one second. Running up to you. Then pushed back for one second.

the reduced end cost is nice, though.

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I would think if they wanted to balance out hurricane (even though it was just fine the way it was) they would compensate that it can't push opponents away as effectively by increasing the ACC debuff for those in melee range. The logic would be they are being pelted by high speed winds. kind of makes it even more difficult to hit your target in that situation. But then again logic never enters the mind of the devs of course. There was a post by castle stating that it only effects pvp situations.

Well unless they completely scrap the current game and rebuild it there will always be gaps in combat effectiveness. The game was originally designed for teams whose powers compliment each other.

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Fortunately the changed doesn't affect me since I don't do pvp and apparently it isn't supposed to affect pve from what I hear.

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It does. It isn't so glaringly apparent, because of mob behavior vs. player behavior, but it's there.

And, of course, the lessening of debuff effectiveness is also there, but that's allegedly going to be better come I7.

Myself, I'd really like to think that there's some master gameplan, that the developers are aware of these huge gaps in gameplay quality between ATs (and even between sets within ATs) and are trying to address them.

But stuff like this just sends me reeling and really undermines my enjoyment.

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Fortunately the changed doesn't affect me since I don't do pvp and apparently it isn't supposed to affect pve from what I hear. But still I see it as yet another in a long line of stupid changes by the Devs. There should never be a nerf just because some players are brain dead and can't adjust to combat situations. Now all the stormies need to complain about hide for stalkers and nerf them right back since the devs unbalanced the game for storm. See devs have child like egos and when they make an error they can't own up like an adult and say my bad. The original version of supression was like this and it took a bleep load of complaining about it affecting toggle powers. The only thing I would suggest is launching a pm and email campaign to the devs to try to get it put back or fixed. Thats what it took for them to fix the original version of supression which made the game unplayable for many ATs. Also it took people quitting over it since the game was broken. I was one of them. Now it is just constantly annoying. There should be no player character that can completely one shot another player character ever unless they are like 6 levels under and even then.... We are superheroes and villains not a buncha damn minions. Devs screwed up yet again. Yay us.


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Wow. People are still arguing about this.

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I just got my first real taste of it today.

A melee character marched right up to me and took me down with one hit. I had little damage, and then... floored. Just like that.

I don't see how that 'balances' anything. I really don't. I have no idea what the developers are trying to do. This particular change flummoxed me so much, I PMed a dev about it. I've never done that.

I'd really, really like to know how this balances anything, how watering down one of my only defenses, apparently to the point of ineffectiveness, somehow makes the game more fair.

When, exactly, am I going to be able to two-shot any other AT?

When do I get my mez protection, and significant defenses/resistances/self-heals on par with other power sets?

Any Stormy knows the primary weakness of Hurricane: it doesn't help you against ranged attacks. That's what balanced it. It was fine the way it was.

Now it is decidedly unfine. Now it doesn't do what it's supposed to do, but it still has the weaknesses it had. Weakness that still apply in PVP as well, despite any ridiculous claims of how uBeR Hurricane is. Please.

Debuffs... debuff you. That's what they do. If you are debuffed, and you can still hit reliably, the debuff is no longer of any worth.

I'm quickly shifting to the 'remove Defenders from the game' camp. Considering I play Defenders more than any other AT, that's... pretty sad.

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Yes there are powers that a melee type can walk right up to a storm defender with hurricane on and hit them. I forget the specific names but off hand both Invulnerability and the Stone armor set both have a power that negates knockback. I am sure there are others but I don't know off hand what they might be.

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If a person shouldn't "have to [. . .] waste inf on non working temp powers", then you'd agree with me that a person shouldn't have to "waste inf on non working temp powers" like IR Goggles "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?


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IR Goggles WORK. I have used them on my Scrapper, Blaster, and Peacebringer in SC and I have seen Stalkers without perception buffs applied to me by others.. In regards to Web and Stun grenades which have a very low ACC on them, they have never worked on any Stormie unbuffed, never mind any other AT I've used them on just to get rid of them because all they seem to do is blow up and miss. The "grenades" in PvP suck, plain and simple. IR Toggles work though. If they increase the ACC on grenades to hit all the time and Stun and knock off Hurricane then you can keep Hurricane unnerfed because there will be an effective temp power to use against hurricane like their is an effective temp power to use against stalkers.

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If a person shouldn't have to "form teams that have range or mez", then you'd agree with me that a person shouldn't have to "form teams that have" +Perception powers "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?

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See above post about effective single temp power to use against Stalkers, no team needed.

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If a person shouldn't have to "change travel powers", then you'd agree with me that people shouldn't have to "change travel powers "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?


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Totally agree here. No one should have to change a travel power to deal with a single power. There is a distinct difference in jumping all around mindlessly to avoid a stalker's AS than there is to jump and try to place a precision placed punch on the head to knock off hurricane which most likely won't happen because you'll be repelled or ACC debuffed so much as to not hit anyway.. Jumping around to avoid stalkers mean a stalker will have to work to AS or even hit you as well.

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These were your words, by the way, not mine. Your logic certainly applies equally to Assassin's Strike as it does Hurricane.


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See above comment.

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So the next time Stalkers come out and tell people to buy IR Goggles to defend themselves from Assassin's Strike, you'll be right there on the forefront arguing against those people... right? The next time Stalkers come out and tell people that they "just need to team" to avoid Assassin's Strike one-shots, you'll be right there arguing as passionately against them as you're arguing here... right? The next time Stalkers tell people that they need to "just use their travel powers more unpredictably", I should expect to see you in the thread posting again and again about why that's wrong... right?

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Wrong. I never would say that because there is an effective temp power to purchase against stalkers. It's the first thing I buy in SC if the temp power is available. If it's not, I constantly jump around, fly, SS, or SJ(all depends on what toon I'm on) or do Dragon's Tail on my scrapper all the time to try to hit them if I can't see them and they may be around me.
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Given your own logic for nerfing Hurricane, imagine my shock when I found the following post (click link):

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I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate. (emphasis mine)

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I'd sure hate to see you applying a double standard... That would just be wrong, wouldn't it?

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I'm not applying a double standard. As I said above a few times, there is an effective temp power against Hide. If I had tactics or someone on the team had tactics, I could see them too. That power would effect the whole team. There isn't a power someone can cast on a melee or whole team to simply walk right up to a stormy using hurricane and hit them, is there??? But there are two powers that can effectively see a stalker that you can purchase or have cast on you and it works on ranged or melee toons. Is there an anti-hurricane power that can be applied to toons?? I don't even think Vengeance does that.

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You are correct about invulnerability and also the rock armor set have resistance to knockback which work well against hurricanes. I am sure there are a few others as well but not sure which.

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If a I'm not applying a double standard. As I said above a few times, there is an effective temp power against Hide. If I had tactics or someone on the team had tactics, I could see them too. That power would effect the whole team. There isn't a power someone can cast on a melee or whole team to simply walk right up to a stormy using hurricane and hit them, is there??? But there are two powers that can effectively see a stalker that you can purchase or have cast on you and it works on ranged or melee toons. Is there an anti-hurricane power that can be applied to toons?? I don't even think Vengeance does that.

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First of all you are applying a double standard. You said that you didnt think it was right that everyone has to change tactics just to accomadate one power, and that the one power can so drastically turn the tide of battle. A stalker can do that. Teams DO adjust their tactics to deal with them and a stalker with as CAN drastically alter the tide of battle.

Secondly there are powers that melee have that ignore hurricannes repel and -acc. I believe rage from invul. does this. I remember when the arenas first came out a invul/mace tank friend of mine walked right through hurricanne like it wasnt even there and stunned me. i could be wrong, but iirc mog also negates the repel. Any power that gives a large bonus to tohit will negate the -tohit on hurricanne. SO there are inherent options to melee.

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I was noticing that pattern as well. I say assassin strike should be nerfed in half. It was a bad idea to begin with. Stealth should be nerfed and we should nerf some footballs as well. nerf nerf nerf everybody but me. Buncha nerf herders.

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KidQwik:

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You just proved my point why hurricane needed the nerf bat. All those things melee is supposed to do for ONE power? Why? Cause you should be able to use one power and that's it while everyone else should have to do x amount of things like waste inf on non working temp powers, form teams that have range or mez, change travel powers, etc, ALL to deal with ONE power???? Why it needed to be nerfed. Come to Justice, let my Stalker give u a hug.

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You do realize the irony of your position here, don't you?

Each and every one of these suggestions has been made by the Stalker community regarding Assassin's Strike.

If a person shouldn't "have to [. . .] waste inf on non working temp powers", then you'd agree with me that a person shouldn't have to "waste inf on non working temp powers" like IR Goggles "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?

If a person shouldn't have to "form teams that have range or mez", then you'd agree with me that a person shouldn't have to "form teams that have" +Perception powers "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?

If a person shouldn't have to "change travel powers", then you'd agree with me that people shouldn't have to "change travel powers "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?

These were your words, by the way, not mine. Your logic certainly applies equally to Assassin's Strike as it does Hurricane.

So the next time Stalkers come out and tell people to buy IR Goggles to defend themselves from Assassin's Strike, you'll be right there on the forefront arguing against those people... right? The next time Stalkers come out and tell people that they "just need to team" to avoid Assassin's Strike one-shots, you'll be right there arguing as passionately against them as you're arguing here... right? The next time Stalkers tell people that they need to "just use their travel powers more unpredictably", I should expect to see you in the thread posting again and again about why that's wrong... right?

Given your own logic for nerfing Hurricane, imagine my shock when I found the following post (click link):

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I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate. (emphasis mine)

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I'd sure hate to see you applying a double standard... That would just be wrong, wouldn't it?

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I was noticing that pattern as well. I say assassin strike should be nerfed in half. It was a bad idea to begin with. Stealth should be nerfed and we should nerf some footballs as well. nerf nerf nerf everybody but me. Buncha nerf herders.

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KidQwik:

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You just proved my point why hurricane needed the nerf bat. All those things melee is supposed to do for ONE power? Why? Cause you should be able to use one power and that's it while everyone else should have to do x amount of things like waste inf on non working temp powers, form teams that have range or mez, change travel powers, etc, ALL to deal with ONE power???? Why it needed to be nerfed. Come to Justice, let my Stalker give u a hug.

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You do realize the irony of your position here, don't you?

Each and every one of these suggestions has been made by the Stalker community regarding Assassin's Strike.

If a person shouldn't "have to [. . .] waste inf on non working temp powers", then you'd agree with me that a person shouldn't have to "waste inf on non working temp powers" like IR Goggles "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?

If a person shouldn't have to "form teams that have range or mez", then you'd agree with me that a person shouldn't have to "form teams that have" +Perception powers "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?

If a person shouldn't have to "change travel powers", then you'd agree with me that people shouldn't have to "change travel powers "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?

These were your words, by the way, not mine. Your logic certainly applies equally to Assassin's Strike as it does Hurricane.

So the next time Stalkers come out and tell people to buy IR Goggles to defend themselves from Assassin's Strike, you'll be right there on the forefront arguing against those people... right? The next time Stalkers come out and tell people that they "just need to team" to avoid Assassin's Strike one-shots, you'll be right there arguing as passionately against them as you're arguing here... right? The next time Stalkers tell people that they need to "just use their travel powers more unpredictably", I should expect to see you in the thread posting again and again about why that's wrong... right?

Given your own logic for nerfing Hurricane, imagine my shock when I found the following post (click link):

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I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate. (emphasis mine)

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I'd sure hate to see you applying a double standard... That would just be wrong, wouldn't it?

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I was noticing that pattern as well. I say assassin strike should be nerfed in half. It was a bad idea to begin with. Stealth should be nerfed and we should nerf some footballs as well. nerf nerf nerf everybody but me. Buncha nerf herders.

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KidQwik:

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You just proved my point why hurricane needed the nerf bat. All those things melee is supposed to do for ONE power? Why? Cause you should be able to use one power and that's it while everyone else should have to do x amount of things like waste inf on non working temp powers, form teams that have range or mez, change travel powers, etc, ALL to deal with ONE power???? Why it needed to be nerfed. Come to Justice, let my Stalker give u a hug.

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You do realize the irony of your position here, don't you?

Each and every one of these suggestions has been made by the Stalker community regarding Assassin's Strike.

If a person shouldn't "have to [. . .] waste inf on non working temp powers", then you'd agree with me that a person shouldn't have to "waste inf on non working temp powers" like IR Goggles "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?

If a person shouldn't have to "form teams that have range or mez", then you'd agree with me that a person shouldn't have to "form teams that have" +Perception powers "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?

If a person shouldn't have to "change travel powers", then you'd agree with me that people shouldn't have to "change travel powers "ALL to deal with ONE power????" ...right?

These were your words, by the way, not mine. Your logic certainly applies equally to Assassin's Strike as it does Hurricane.

So the next time Stalkers come out and tell people to buy IR Goggles to defend themselves from Assassin's Strike, you'll be right there on the forefront arguing against those people... right? The next time Stalkers come out and tell people that they "just need to team" to avoid Assassin's Strike one-shots, you'll be right there arguing as passionately against them as you're arguing here... right? The next time Stalkers tell people that they need to "just use their travel powers more unpredictably", I should expect to see you in the thread posting again and again about why that's wrong... right?

Given your own logic for nerfing Hurricane, imagine my shock when I found the following post (click link):

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I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate. (emphasis mine)

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I'd sure hate to see you applying a double standard... That would just be wrong, wouldn't it?

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The point is you are not putting a team together that is even remotely strategic and are doomed for many defeats. A blaster can do hit and run tactics on your team all day. You should have plenty of problems going strictly melee its your own fault. If gale was a bit more accurate you would be complaining about that as well. Put together a balanced team and you will have far less problems. Going all melee, all blasters or all anything you are asking for trouble. At least we agree on that there should be separate sets of game rules for powers in pvp and pve. If the devs had any common sense which I have yet to see evidence of this, they would implement a plan. Your right the game wasn't designed for pvp, it was designed to work best if you have a diverse and balanced team. Which again is why you are having problems in pvp with an all melee team. They would have to redesign the game from scratch to get pvp to work. In the long run it makes little sense to try to try to balance a superhero game too much. The whole genre is unbalanced.

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Um wow. Kid you need to start thinking in combat. First of all it isn't Hurricane that is unbalanced its the fact your team is unbalanced. 8 man melee team?? I suppose I should put together a 8 man team of healers and whine like a 5 year old to the devs. Why can't I kill these tanks? Wah poor me I can't think why that could be. I would be sooooooooo happy if they trashed pvp tomorrow. It continues to do nothing but destroy the game for the majority of us.


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All other ATs have at least a fair chance of at hitting one another(except say those bubbled) and effecting one another regardless of melee or range. To say that an 8 mean team of melee shouldn't have a fair chance at dealing with one toon running one power is not balance.

As for PvP ruinining our toons.. Yes, if it effects PvE too which it has, then nerfs aren't a good thing. I think nerfs do need to happen in PvP simply because our powers and our ATs weren't made to be equal in PvP because they were based on PvE. Depending on what powersets you choose for your AT, you served this or that role in PvE. How is a healer supposed to compete in PvP? They were meant to heal in PvE so for someone who chose all healing and buffing powers and either didn't choose or didn't have much to choose from with offensive dmg powers, how are they supposed to defeat people in PvP?? I've always thought there should be two seperate ways powers function in PvE and PvP. We're talking about nerfs that didn't happen for over a year into CoH until Arena came about and were told "we didn't nerf because of PvP" which is a bunch of crap. How do you balance in PvP? It needs to be done in a way that each AT has a chance at taking out another AT in someway shape or form, but how do they do this without screwing up what your AT is supposed to be to begin with? No easy solution. I don't think nerfing things should apply to PvE powers unless they are far overpowered for PvE. Things like herding a massive amount of mobs with Dreck was an exploit(I guess) and should have been lowered. Shrugs. I dunno. Depends if u ask a tank.. Or a regen scrapper. Or a stormie. Everyone needs to try and look at their own AT fairly in PvP and look beyond "I like my toon just the way he/she is!" and look at the dynamics of all the other ATs and situations. Sure I didn't like my Regen nerfed in PvP AND PvE, but I've learned to live with my new set of multiple click powers that all do the same thing... Heal. Self Empathy am I, I guess. But now they broke the powers and how they worked originally and homogenized them all. Sigh.

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Um wow. Kid you need to start thinking in combat. First of all it isn't Hurricane that is unbalanced its the fact your team is unbalanced. 8 man melee team?? I suppose I should put together a 8 man team of healers and whine like a 5 year old to the devs. Why can't I kill these tanks? Wah poor me I can't think why that could be. I would be sooooooooo happy if they trashed pvp tomorrow. It continues to do nothing but destroy the game for the majority of us.

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problem is, man, you're not talking about a single power.

you're talking about the problem YOU had killing squishies when youre team went up against another team.

the only thing you noticed was hurricane.

you missed the mez protection, missed the heals and missed the damage coming in from the other team.

it wasn't your team against hurricane.

it was your team against theirs...and they brought a lot to the table. you can too with a little work.

trust me, i've seen it happen.

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No. I'm talking about problems the team had taking out a Stormie with like 2 people on his/her team with more people on my team on numerous occasions. I'm not talking about mez protection that didn't happens, I'm not talking about buffs that didn't happen, I'm talking about players who couldn't even get near to touch someone with hurricane so the Stormy didn't even need heals. When 8 people who are melee are surrounding a stormy and can't touch him, that's a problem. Seem people pinned against walls and corners and bus stops is a problem. The devs think so too. I think it is/was/maybe still is overpowered in PvP. No one AT should have to turn on a toggle and just stand there and just use one power.

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Unfortunately the Devs aren't that bright and I am almost convinced they love pissing people off for the perverse joy of hearing them rant. The Devs simply just need to make two sets of game rules. one that kicks in the PVP areas and one for the regular areas. I understand scrappers and tanks are all pissed off because they can't one shot a defender and have to rely on their team mates to take them out. But my god we can't have that that would mean you would have to act as a team? GASP!!! Teamwork. But if the Devs have to nerf just for PVP because some whiners don't know how to think, well The Devs really need to just have two sets of rules one for the PVP area and the other for the rest of us. I say stop nerfing for the braindead!!!

I will repeat it a few times cause the devs don't always pay attention

ONE SET OF RULES FOR PVP AREAS AND ONE SET OF RULES FOR PVE AREAS. THAT WAY YOU DON'T PISS OFF YOUR CUSTOMERS.

ONE SET OF RULES FOR PVP AREAS AND ONE SET OF RULES FOR PVE AREAS. THAT WAY YOU DON'T PISS OFF YOUR CUSTOMERS.

ONE SET OF RULES FOR PVP AREAS AND ONE SET OF RULES FOR PVE AREAS. THAT WAY YOU DON'T PISS OFF YOUR CUSTOMERS.

ONE SET OF RULES FOR PVP AREAS AND ONE SET OF RULES FOR PVE AREAS. THAT WAY YOU DON'T PISS OFF YOUR CUSTOMERS.




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WARNING: quite possibly my first CoH Forums rant. Ignore if you are so inclined.

Please add me to the list of people who could care less about PvP. Been there, done that enough to know for certain that it's not why I play this game. Fun now and then, but that's not where it's at for me really. If I cared about PvP at all I'd have already posted a ton of rants about how "unfair" force bubble or energy melee stuns, or <insert whatever power you like here> are. But I haven't. I mean complaining about being one-shotted by an assassin strike? Come on! That's why they're called "assassins." Just like hurricanes are called hurricanes for a reason too ...

So to see a PvP change take such a huge chunk of the fun of my playing my PvE-99.7%-of-the-time Storm Defender (who's still far from 50, which is about the only time I PvP with a character, after 50) rely honks me off.

I had just used my 34+ respec to switch from Flight to Teleport so that I could Mist up to a big group of mobs, cast Freezing Rain, shoot Tenebrous Tentacles, summon a Lightning Storm, teleport to the other side of the group, and push them back into the Storm. Good times! I was having a ball with that combo! Trapping a boss in a corner and throwing a tornado at him is good clean fun too! Bully the bully: what could be more super-heroic than that?

There's a reason why my top 4 characters are a tank, a scrapper who likes to tank, a storm defender who also likes to tank, and an MM: it's how I have fun! I do not appreciate PvP changes that severely alter my ability to have fun in PvE.

I haven't played since release without noticing a few things, and since you've indulged me thus far, I'll share some more thoughts ...

The way I see it, MMORPG PvP is just like collectible card gaming (you know, Magic and everything since): people who don't use a particular power/card/combo will always whine about said power/card/combo being overpowered. It doesn't matter that there are a number of ways to beat it. People are people, and over-competitive people don't like to lose ... ever. When they do lose, it's not their fault, it's always somebody else's. It has to be that their opponent used a cheap tactic or got lucky or whatever.

How do I know this? Because I've been there. I'm an overly competitive person myself. I'm playing this game (and largely avoiding PvP) because of it. There was a time when I was a regionally ranked player in a popular-at-the-time collectible card game. I picked the game up quicker than most, got good, won a lot, and kept winning. When I did lose, I told myself that it was because of cheap-tactic A or over-powered-combo B, or whatever. What's funny is that I would swear to avoid using said tactic/combo myself (even though I had the cards to do it) and instead vowed to find a way to beat it.

That's just how I dealt with it. I never once posted a nerf-this rant. It didn't matter how many other people were crying nerf, I considered it my job to figure out how to beat it. My job, not the makers of the game. But that was just me.

A funny thing about PvPing, collectible card gaming, and many other competitions that are completely irrelevent to the real world is that the people who don't get good and win a lot eventually quit and move onto something else, leaving just the "good" players to beat up on each other until the game dies.

To close, please don't kill my beloved Hurricane, at least in PvE. Do what you like with powers in PvP. PvP will never be 100% fair, and even if it was 100% fair, people would still say it wasn't, because in most any competition, there is a loser, and more often than not, the loser does not enjoy losing. This of course leaves only winners who then create more losers, and so on, until there is noone left. "There can be only one" may work for Highlander, but it makes for a lousy player base. I agree with an ealier poster: the future of this game lies not in PvP, but in new content, powersets, rewards, events and, in short, continuing to feel super. And one of my favorite ways to feel super in this game is to push the bad guys around, both figuratively, and in the case of my stormer, literally.

Thanks for your time.

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When devs nerf a power to the point people want to quit or just give up on the powerset they need to start thinking of more intelligent solutions. They just love to chase away their customers. Good thing this isn't a bricks and mortar store instead of an MMO. They would have gone bankrupt a long tima ago the way they alienate their customers.

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When you're done, can I have your stuff?

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Nah I'm just respeccing out of the power, not dropping the character

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Actually that astatement was made about PVP would not affect PVE game play. Of course some of the most annoying changes were made because of PVP. I say have one set of game rules in PVP zones and another in PVE zones. Make everyone happy instead of pissing off the majority of the players.

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The devs made a promise that PvE changes would not be made solely for PvP.

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You'd love it if that were true. The developers have a job to do. They do it the best they can. They tell is the guiding principles they're using, then go ahead and do what they have to do. If you read every explanation of "probably, we expect that mostly..." as a writ-in-stone promise, you're going to be disappointed. Not just with the CoH devs, but with most of life.

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I guess all their promise meant was that they would never *admit* that they were making a change solely for PvP.

This is such a blatant lie that it is insulting to our intelligence. Do they actually expect us to swallow the lie that Storm has suddenly become overpowered for PvE?

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Actually, the patch notes say explicitly that this change was solely for PvP. It doesn't say that the change carries over to PvE... but it doesn't say it doesn't, all it says is the power changed. Since the power exists in PvE, we shouldn't be surprised that changing the power changes PvE. Furthermore, we have no idea how hard it would be for the devs to change Hurricane in PvP and not in PvE. That might be a lot of code. Would you rather have the developers put off all power fixes for several months while they code a new PvP/PvE distinction in their powers? Or have them make a few changes like this so massive bugs and exploits can be fixed?

The developers do a LOT for us. Try to recognize that there are tradeoffs in everything they do, and give them at least the slightest benefit of the doubt once in a while.

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I am all for a second set of game rules in PVP zones and leave PVE to have their own rules. The majority of the players are PVE why punish the majority for the simple minded squeaky wheel minority? The devs just seem to love to piss people off when there are better solutions if they use their heads.


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Why I should care how a set performs in PvP is beyond me.. that's like telling me that it's OK that my computer suddenly crashes all the time because "It's very efficient at heating the room".

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Please understand that you have my full and complete understanding about the annoyance of PvP-driven changes affecting PvE.

However, I'm a little surprised that anyone is taken off guard by this. There have not been any PvP-only power changes in quite some time.

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I agree storm was never overpowered. It was always balanced by the fact that it was agro crazy with certain powers. It is just a lot of eye candy so it just looks over powered.

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*Sigh*

Once again the PvPers who refused to think through problems on the battlefield have gone and ruined things for everyone, including those who don't PvP at all or very often. The fact is, good PvPers know how to disable huricane fairly easily. All you have to remember are a few things:

1) Storm Defenders lack mez protection in their powerset. Unless they have another power that grants some or are teamed with people who can give them mez resistance, it can be very easy to hold, stun, sleep, whatever a storm defender.

2) Use travel powers to your advantage. If you have teleport, you can teleport right next to the defender and get off a mez attack before huricane takes effect. Or use superspeed's inertia to get in close.

3) Que your attack before engaging the storm defender. Remember, attacks will remained active ready to go off as soon as you get in range. So you can have a travel power ready, que the attack, get in close, and the mez attack or regular attack will go off on its own, even if you get repelled while it happens. The target only needs to be in range when the attack goes off.

So, there you have it, 3 simple things that can disable a stormie. Part of the challenge of PvP (and the fun if you ask me) is thinking through the challenges presented. It is a common theme that the best PvPers will do this, and that is why they are so strong. Not to say storm summoning's huricane did not need some nerf. The fact is forcing someone against a corner where they can do nothing (not even pop a break free) was a bit extreme and needed to be dealt with, but I think the developers are catering too much to people who just want a win button in PvP.

And why can't the effects of huricane be different in PvP and PvE. If you ask me, I haven't noticed storm being vastly overpowered in the PvE game. People must still think through their actions and I still risk death if I take on more than my powers can handle.

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QFT

hurricane was never overpowered.

there were and are plenty of counters for it.

the reason it got nerfed is because it's a debuff power and inexperienced players are more inclined to complain about a debuff power 'cuz it affects their toons negatively. notice how few people complain about clear mind or clarity--they're buffs.

it spooks me a bit to see this happening, but i think the devs will continue to nerf debuff powers in the interest of an ill-formed notion of balance until this phenomenon becomes clear to them.

hurricane was never unbalanced in pvp. at least not when compared to powers like sonic cage, detention field, clear mind, clarity...

the cries against it were unjustified.

the nerf was inappropriate.

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