To Hit Debuff Enhancement Change Explained
By
Amber_Blaze,
Posted on: 2006-04-05 16:34 in Developers' Corner
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I agree that we should relax.
However, since states is a historian and not a mathmatition it would be nice if when he did post on the math that he posted the entire math so that who ever edits or overlooks his statements (which I would think someone does) catches these over sights.
It would also be nice to have it all posted too so we all can get a better understanding of what is going on. After all if one is confident in the changes, one should have no fear in allowing them to be viewed.
Maybe its just the way I grew up but if when I told my father about whatever ordeal was going on and simply left out the parts that reflected bad on me, it would be viewed as me lieing even though everything I stated may have been truth. Like the first post stating this change was due to HO's or the math that did not factor things, or if it did factor them right, then the posts past saying the things not factored were part of the game.
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Um, that's the point. Jack does not have someone proofreading his posts before they come here. He's just trying to be in contact and let us know what's going on.
I think it's called "being approachable" or something inane like that! 
Still here, even after all this time!
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Accurcy buff was the wrong phrase... what it should have said was accuracy modifer for level. I edited it to make it more clear.
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Well, there is no accuracy modifier so to speak. What the "accuracy modifier for level" is is how enemy Base ToHit changes with level. It's not actually accuracy.
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I think "rank" modifier is pretty accurate. I *think* PCs now get a rank modifier equivilant to AV/Heroes. About the only Hero/AV level thing that we get, really.
Still here, even after all this time!
I believe you are correct about the rank modifier. I think it was added with the I7 changes. And if you set it to zero and run some calculations, you'll see why. Powers like RI and DN would absolutely hammer a +0 AV's accuracy. A set like Dark Miasma, with multiple tools on hand, would crush it to the floor.
I hate to say it, but they needed to add the resistance. Whether these are good values or not I don't know.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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i am relaxed, and agree with you 100%, but the fact is by statman own action hes either as you put it "a lier" or if he just donesn't know about the things he miss posts hes "incompetent"
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Wow, the person who formed this sentence is calling ppl incompetent? Ironic...
In regards to the mistakes in math and so on from someone like States, I think the issue is that other than the laudable example set by Castle, the folks who work directly with the powers, and work first hand with the numbers on a day to day basis don't deign to speak to us more than once in a blue moon.
Were Geko to step up and explain power changes in detail when they are made, I think there would be less errors in the numbers and explantions we get, since he is the man in charge of powers. We're he to do that kind of thing, some nice player might even send him cookies as happened once in the past.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
I agree completely. I actually think partial or incomplete explanations are just as problematic as the "blue moon" visits.
I not hard to see the confusion in the community regarding things just by reading posts and debates about things. It would be nice to see a complete and official response regarding such issues.
And things like:
Working as intended.
Overall this change should have little impact
And things along those lines do not address the confusion in any which way. I would even venture to say they spark more confusion then before the post in many instances.
Personally I would see the community as a bonus to fixing issues. By simply sharing information and keeping them informed I think the development team would be surprised at some of the effert people put into things, and that they discover things that have gone unoticed. Unless ofcourse the staffs goal is secrecy as to exact mechanics for fear that of what may be discovered. To which is an idea I frown upon.
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I agree completely. I actually think partial or incomplete explanations are just as problematic as the "blue moon" visits.
I not hard to see the confusion in the community regarding things just by reading posts and debates about things. It would be nice to see a complete and official response regarding such issues.
And things like:
Working as intended.
Overall this change should have little impact
And things along those lines do not address the confusion in any which way. I would even venture to say they spark more confusion then before the post in many instances.
Personally I would see the community as a bonus to fixing issues. By simply sharing information and keeping them informed I think the development team would be surprised at some of the effert people put into things, and that they discover things that have gone unoticed. Unless ofcourse the staffs goal is secrecy as to exact mechanics for fear that of what may be discovered. To which is an idea I frown upon.
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in the 2 instences where the devs released numbers the comunity proved that their ingame numbers were different from their planed numbers. the msot recent ecxampel being invincibilit being 1.5 permob but in game it was 4 as it was triple stiack with itself. All this does is reinforce the fact we need FULL DISCLOSIRE cause the devs cant even get thei powers WORKING AS INTENDED when they say its..."working as intended"
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
You know, reading this thread would be a lot easier if you didnt tyep liek thsi
lol 
Just putting in my plea as so many others in this thread have already done...
Please Dev's, just give us the ACCURATE FORMULA'S that you use in game for powers.
This would help all of us to make decisions, and would allow the player base to inform you when something is not working AS PUBLISHED.
It is utterly pointless to attempt to "plan" a AT in game without hard numbers. I can add a enhancement to my powers which may give it a 33/20/whatever amount of "boost" but without knowing what the base actually is, it is an uninformed decision at best. While the Hero Planners help in this regard, there is still a dark cloud of mystery around making decisions in game about our AT's and this needs to end.
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in the 2 instences where the devs released numbers the comunity proved that their ingame numbers were different from their planed numbers. the msot recent ecxampel being invincibilit being 1.5 permob but in game it was 4 as it was triple stiack with itself. All this does is reinforce the fact we need FULL DISCLOSIRE cause the devs cant even get thei powers WORKING AS INTENDED when they say its..."working as intended"
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instences
comunity
msot
invincibilit
stiack
thei
ecxampel
Forgiveness is divine?
I wish I could understand all this numbers crap ...
All I know is if I can hit and damage all is good ...
If I can't, it's time to run.
Wish these things were easier to explain for those not good with technical jargon. I just am not a number cruncher. All I know is that I will be seeing a big difference in my characters performance.
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So yeah, I'm soooooooo inclined to believe this nerf really affects I7's timeline. If you believe that, I have a bridge I can sell you in San Franscisco *wink*.
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I'm a professional software developer, and depending on their build protocols and source control tools, rolling back one specific change could indeed throw the schedule off. I don't know any of their specifics, but it's believable.
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What people fail to understand is - yes, it's certainly possible to get a small team of developers to drop a fix in on short notice.
The problem with that may be you're taking them off of other work - which in turn causes a delay there - maybe it's only a small one... that in tosses off the schedule for another group - say Q&A which has to test it - but can't because they've got another priority - so that would set the work back there - and probably affect serveral other groups, who in turn... would also have to shift their schedules to accomodate ... and so on and so on.
Even stuff that you know - should never possibly be affected, code that's been gold for over a year - needs to be signed off against by someone if you're doing the process right.
Now realise the game also has to be released for multiple Operating systems - and in several languages - each, btw, needs to be tested, localized and globalized for... so consider how insane each one of these releases actually gets.
Heck, even changing the text on something - causes endless headaches... as the text in english - doesn't have the same width, or rules as it does in asian or cryllic or - heaven forbid - hebrew - (which don't follow the same rules of left>right and bi-directional text). Consider what would happen if everyones word balloons were the wrong size? Anyone remember the GIANT blue hand fiasco a while back on test?? Little things like that - can cause days to fix - which causes other teams to fall behind waiting on that fix - even though it doesn't affect them - it affects the people who have to test their fixes and thereby their schedules.
Making a "simple change" is hardly that. In fact, the longer the game has been out - the more complicated it becomes as more is added to it - more needs to be tested.
Getting a release of software out the door - is a bit like assembling a fine watches gears, in the dark, by hand. You can't just cram any old gear in however it fits or the whole dang thing won't work when you're done.
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There's a difference.
This isn't anyone's job. There are two community reps: Cuppa and Awry. No one else has to come here and tell us squat.
That they do rocks. That they don't get it right sucks. That they have promised to get it right and not done so sucks. I want it to get better, bad and right now. But it just ain't their damn job.
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Whether or not communicating accurate information about the game to the players is techincally part of the job description of the developers is not really relevant IMO.
Producing the patch notes must be part of someone at Cryptic's job (as opposed to NCSoft where Cuppa and Awry work) since they make the changes. And I think its pretty clear that the person or person's responsible has not been doing a good job of keeping accurate, informative patch notes ever since the game went live. States has acknowledged that Cryptic, specifically, must improve in this regard, and yet nothing has changed. Significant changes have continued to go to test in an undocumented or poorly explained fashion.
How many years does it take to learn how to do this task compentently? How much community good-will is Cryptic willing to continue to squander by letting this sorry state of affairs continue? Jack and the other developers will have to answer those questions for themselves.
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I dunno ... how many years does it take for you to do your job competently? You NEVER screw up? How many people are involved in the process that is "your job" - 1, 5, 10, 100?
How many of them have different processes which are required for them to do their job? 10, 50, 100? I'll bet dollars to donuts - that even at your jobs most complicated - it's 1/100th as easy a task than getting even one release of this software out the door. And in that relatively uncomplicated job -- that you probably have common mistakes and fall behind on like we all do Not saying you dont' do your job well - just saying your human like the rest of us, prone to mistakes, and even on your best day ever - they happen.
I've been in software development for some of the largest software manufacturers out there - even worked for the people who build the largest and best selling test and software process software. Let me tell you - NO ONE gets it right every time.
Software development - on it's best days - hitting the target and getting all the elements in place, on time and accurately - is hit and miss at best. And that's when you have all the money, tools, manpower you can ask for.
IBM has over 12 products I know they charge over $30k for - none of which have accurate documentation. Microsoft? Oracle? Sun? Apple? Let's not go there... I'd be laughing too hard. RedHat? Oh Puh-Leaze!! It Hurts!!
Now, if the leading software manufacturers out there - with roughly over 100 times the employees and man power (in some cases) that Cryptic has - can't get it perfect - and in some cases not even close to perfect ... cut them some slack.
I don't know the process between Cryptic and NC - but I'm willing to bet good money - that the exchange of communications is no different than anywhere else. When a product has bugs - and there's a fix process, a rollout process and a new code development process all going on simultaneously with an extremely short turn around cycle between development, Q&A and drop -- amazingly enough - the degree accuracy of the patch notes are the least of the worries in getting it out the door.
Be glad you get them at all.
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Just putting in my plea as so many others in this thread have already done...
Please Dev's, just give us the ACCURATE FORMULA'S that you use in game for powers.
This would help all of us to make decisions, and would allow the player base to inform you when something is not working AS PUBLISHED.
It is utterly pointless to attempt to "plan" a AT in game without hard numbers. I can add a enhancement to my powers which may give it a 33/20/whatever amount of "boost" but without knowing what the base actually is, it is an uninformed decision at best. While the Hero Planners help in this regard, there is still a dark cloud of mystery around making decisions in game about our AT's and this needs to end.
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Yes ... giving us the formulas would help us. It would also give any competition they might have invaluable assistance in building their games, and may even void any patents or potential patents the game might get.
Priorities... letting people design the ultimate toon ... or tossing all their corporate copyrighted information out there for free... decisions... decisions... decisions...
Everytime I hear people discuss "planning their AT and needing the numbers" I cringe.
Here's a concept. Build a toon. Play it. See if it sucks. Learn how to get around said suckage.
Wash-rinse-repeat until you have one you really like. My favorite toons - were never built using a numbers template - I just played them and enjoyed them. I never thought about the numbers and 90% of the people in the game don't either.
They were hard - and I had to learn a lot through trial and error and eventually they're all awesome toons. Needing the numbers to build a good toon is like - - needing to know the specs on a cars engine to enjoy a drive on a sunday.
Sure it might help - but it's hardly necessary - and in general gets in the way of enjoying the scenery if you have to stop and monkey with the mechanics every 10 miles to make sure it's in top performance. If for some weird reason - they change the road on you - or the car suddenly isn't able to out run that sporty new job ... you're spending waaay too much time mechanics - and not enough on enjoying the drive.
No matter how much they nerf something - it will not change anything. You will still have to play - and it will suddenly become harder. Now... half the posts in these forums scream that new content needs to be added... something has to change.
Okay - it just changed. Is your toon unplayable? Or is it just harder than ever? If it's one - then guess what, game rules changed and it's time to start the process over.
If it's just harder than ever... over come it. Haven't seen anyone on these forums yet that isn't capable of rising to that occasion. We got great players in this game... if the game gets harder - we just gotta get smarter... and we will.
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Please Dev's, just give us the ACCURATE FORMULA'S that you use in game for powers.
This would help all of us to make decisions, and would allow the player base to inform you when something is not working AS PUBLISHED.
It is utterly pointless to attempt to "plan" a AT in game without hard numbers. I can add a enhancement to my powers which may give it a 33/20/whatever amount of "boost" but without knowing what the base actually is, it is an uninformed decision at best. While the Hero Planners help in this regard, there is still a dark cloud of mystery around making decisions in game about our AT's and this needs to end.
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Yes ... giving us the formulas would help us. It would also give any competition they might have invaluable assistance in building their games, and may even void any patents or potential patents the game might get.
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That's not a sensible argument. Filing a patent requires disclosure, not secrecy. Only prior art (someone doing it before you, not after) will endanger a patentable invention.
I haven't quoted the remainder of your post where you poo-poo the notion of published numbers, and you advocate to just build toons by trial and error. But that is not a constructive argument either. If they published hard numbers it wouldn't take away from your preferred method of building characters by trial and error. But there are many of us that would appreciate hard numbers. For example, in my Invuln Brute, it's very hard to go about an intelligent slotting strategy is for my various armors because their strengths are not formally documented anywhere.
Stateman has previously explained that his goal in not publishing numbers was to not intimidate/alienate casual gamers. But he has also publicly noted that WoW publishes precise numbers and that game doesn't seem to be hurting for players.
I would say a great compromise would be to fully publish/document everything here in the forums. That way motivated players who cared about numbers could do their research, and casual gamers and those like yourself that like to just build by "feel" could continue to do that in blissful ignorance.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
their a difference between publishing
"Level times 30% multiplried by a factor of Y Rand (1, 100)" = the resist valuse of Temporary invunerability and
"temporary invunerability has a base 30% of the s/l defense cap for tank"
Whe nthe enhacment screen says that a so add "33%" to my TI resist just what is that 33% of?
is th base defense 10% thus meaning the SO gives 3% increase or 100% giveing a 33% increase in effective ness?
a casual player sloting their shieds forexampel has no way to tell that Resist physical Dammange and Temporary invunrerability, both S/L resist powers have different valuses.
al lthey see is 33%
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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There's a difference.
This isn't anyone's job. There are two community reps: Cuppa and Awry. No one else has to come here and tell us squat.
That they do rocks. That they don't get it right sucks. That they have promised to get it right and not done so sucks. I want it to get better, bad and right now. But it just ain't their damn job.
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Whether or not communicating accurate information about the game to the players is techincally part of the job description of the developers is not really relevant IMO.
Producing the patch notes must be part of someone at Cryptic's job (as opposed to NCSoft where Cuppa and Awry work) since they make the changes. And I think its pretty clear that the person or person's responsible has not been doing a good job of keeping accurate, informative patch notes ever since the game went live. States has acknowledged that Cryptic, specifically, must improve in this regard, and yet nothing has changed. Significant changes have continued to go to test in an undocumented or poorly explained fashion.
How many years does it take to learn how to do this task compentently? How much community good-will is Cryptic willing to continue to squander by letting this sorry state of affairs continue? Jack and the other developers will have to answer those questions for themselves.
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I dunno ... how many years does it take for you to do your job competently? You NEVER screw up? How many people are involved in the process that is "your job" - 1, 5, 10, 100?
How many of them have different processes which are required for them to do their job? 10, 50, 100? I'll bet dollars to donuts - that even at your jobs most complicated - it's 1/100th as easy a task than getting even one release of this software out the door. And in that relatively uncomplicated job -- that you probably have common mistakes and fall behind on like we all do Not saying you dont' do your job well - just saying your human like the rest of us, prone to mistakes, and even on your best day ever - they happen.
I've been in software development for some of the largest software manufacturers out there - even worked for the people who build the largest and best selling test and software process software. Let me tell you - NO ONE gets it right every time.
Software development - on it's best days - hitting the target and getting all the elements in place, on time and accurately - is hit and miss at best. And that's when you have all the money, tools, manpower you can ask for.
IBM has over 12 products I know they charge over $30k for - none of which have accurate documentation. Microsoft? Oracle? Sun? Apple? Let's not go there... I'd be laughing too hard. RedHat? Oh Puh-Leaze!! It Hurts!!
Now, if the leading software manufacturers out there - with roughly over 100 times the employees and man power (in some cases) that Cryptic has - can't get it perfect - and in some cases not even close to perfect ... cut them some slack.
I don't know the process between Cryptic and NC - but I'm willing to bet good money - that the exchange of communications is no different than anywhere else. When a product has bugs - and there's a fix process, a rollout process and a new code development process all going on simultaneously with an extremely short turn around cycle between development, Q&A and drop -- amazingly enough - the degree accuracy of the patch notes are the least of the worries in getting it out the door.
Be glad you get them at all.
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Implying that my job is somehow less complex than the poor old software developer is pretty clearly a veiled insult at all non-developers on your part. Maybe since you work in the industry, you're feeling a tribal need to defend people in your occupation. Thats OK, but don't fool yourself into thinking you're somehow any better, smarter, or working at a more difficult occupation than people in other occupations.
This isn't about me, or what I do for a living. Its about a company failing to live up to a publically made comittment to improve.
I would also point out that there's a difference between making the occasional mistake, and consistantly producing error riddled work that reflects poorly on your employer in public. The patch notes have been a problem since day one, when the first patch to the live servers went up without documentation at all. This was prior to the existance of the Training Room. Were there just an occasional mistake, most people wouldnt be too upset. Thats not the reality of the situation here though.
As I've said elsewhere, just because the industry standard for communication is crap, that doesnt mean we shouldn't ask for and demand better from Cryptic.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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Everytime I hear people discuss "planning their AT and needing the numbers" I cringe.
Here's a concept. Build a toon. Play it. See if it sucks. Learn how to get around said suckage.
Wash-rinse-repeat until you have one you really like.
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Not a problem would you mind sparing me the extra 1000's of hours to level all these different combinations to a high enough level to see how the powers mesh. Then allow me to do it for each AT and each power combo in it.
Lets just take scrappers for a low number
6 primary 4 secondary
right off we have a total of 24 primary secondary combos. This is not even getting into powerchoices in those sets. Add that factor. and so on and so on.
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Needing the numbers to build a good toon is like - - needing to know the specs on a cars engine to enjoy a drive on a sunday.
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Ahh like wanted to know MPG so you can budget in the gas expenses. Or knowing torque to see if it can pull your trailer load. Or wanting to know resale value or insurance and repair/maint. upkeep cost.
Silly me when I buy a auto I spend tons and time researching my future investment... when I should have simply just bought whatever looked best for my Sunday drive.
I really want to live in never-never-land where specs on cars do not matter and I can look at them as I did when I was but a boy, but every time I do this thing called reality smacks me right in the face.
The same goes for your other comments. We are paying 15 bucks or so a month for entertainment. And the way RPG's work is like an investment: you invest tons of time and energy into developing your toon. It is only logical to want to know what your investing in.
I think that even though you have opposite points they aren't completely mutually exclusive. You can both analyze the numbers and play for concept and not min/max. I've played a lot of enjoyable characters that weren't min/maxed. I've also played characters where I thought omg this sucks, I've wasted dozens of hours and I dont even know if I can fix this with a respec. If only I had some numbers on these powers.
Some powers will still be better than others in spite of the number because of things like animation time, secondary effects, activation and recharge times, etc... and these still need people to adjust for their own play style.
Some powers, no matter how the numbers look will still suck. For example Dimension Shift. Even when used with a macro to announce it, even if you've explained how it works to your team, even if you only use it when half the team has died and people are calling to 'RUN!", people will still stand their and swing on phase shifted enemy until they unphase and finish off the group. The power is just about worthless in spite of the numbers.
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Yes ... giving us the formulas would help us. It would also give any competition they might have invaluable assistance in building their games, and may even void any patents or potential patents the game might get.
Priorities... letting people design the ultimate toon ... or tossing all their corporate copyrighted information out there for free... decisions... decisions... decisions...
Everytime I hear people discuss "planning their AT and needing the numbers" I cringe.
Here's a concept. Build a toon. Play it. See if it sucks. Learn how to get around said suckage.
Wash-rinse-repeat until you have one you really like. My favorite toons - were never built using a numbers template - I just played them and enjoyed them. I never thought about the numbers and 90% of the people in the game don't either.
They were hard - and I had to learn a lot through trial and error and eventually they're all awesome toons. Needing the numbers to build a good toon is like - - needing to know the specs on a cars engine to enjoy a drive on a sunday.
Sure it might help - but it's hardly necessary - and in general gets in the way of enjoying the scenery if you have to stop and monkey with the mechanics every 10 miles to make sure it's in top performance. If for some weird reason - they change the road on you - or the car suddenly isn't able to out run that sporty new job ... you're spending waaay too much time mechanics - and not enough on enjoying the drive.
No matter how much they nerf something - it will not change anything. You will still have to play - and it will suddenly become harder. Now... half the posts in these forums scream that new content needs to be added... something has to change.
Okay - it just changed. Is your toon unplayable? Or is it just harder than ever? If it's one - then guess what, game rules changed and it's time to start the process over.
If it's just harder than ever... over come it. Haven't seen anyone on these forums yet that isn't capable of rising to that occasion. We got great players in this game... if the game gets harder - we just gotta get smarter... and we will.
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Ok, while I utterly disagree with your position I feel I owe it to you after that long a post to tell you why I feel that way.
First thing is even if we had the exact formula's used, they would be fairly close to worthless for any other company to try and use simply due to the fact of balance.
The calculations are also not rocket science here. If I was building a game, and wanted a base ACC of 50% versus something of the same level, combined with min / max values of 30% and 90% to hit adding in buffs/debuffs, while also considering that I wanted anything ten levels below you to hit the max cap while anything ten levels above hit the min cap... This sort of formula might take me a half hour to work out, but it would take any semi competent game designer a few minutes tops to do the same.
The real reason that developers don't put out such info easily is not to keep the competition from finding out (they know, or can find out easily by testing), it's to prevent the players from actually realizing how over/under performing some of the AT/Powers/whatever are, and complaining about it. It also prevents them from having to "fess up" when they botch some coding and players can point out their errors and whine for fixes.
There are games that have a lot more hard numbers published than this one, WoW, Anarchy Online, and many more. In some games like AO you really do have to plan exactly which buffs/implants/items you'll need to have available just to equip a weapon as well as knowing the ramifications of how that weapon will perform if all those buffs/implants/items are not present while your useing it.
None of those things makes games less enjoyable, you don't HAVE to know them to be able to play and succeed but for those of us who make decisions based on what things actually do, lack of hard numbers is very annoying.
Some of us don't build computers without knowing how big the power supply must be to add the parts we want. Some of us won't buy cars without knowing how many people fit in it, and what kind of mileage it gets. Some of us won't buy houses, without knowing how much utilities and taxes are going to cost us per year.
For some of us, makeing INFORMED decisions matters, even if it just a game.
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I think that even though you have opposite points they aren't completely mutually exclusive. You can both analyze the numbers and play for concept and not min/max. I've played a lot of enjoyable characters that weren't min/maxed. I've also played characters where I thought omg this sucks, I've wasted dozens of hours and I dont even know if I can fix this with a respec. If only I had some numbers on these powers.
Some powers will still be better than others in spite of the number because of things like animation time, secondary effects, activation and recharge times, etc... and these still need people to adjust for their own play style.
Some powers, no matter how the numbers look will still suck. For example Dimension Shift. Even when used with a macro to announce it, even if you've explained how it works to your team, even if you only use it when half the team has died and people are calling to 'RUN!", people will still stand their and swing on phase shifted enemy until they unphase and finish off the group. The power is just about worthless in spite of the numbers.
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I agree that you can do both. I myself have toons that are not build for min max. Like my Achery toon who is more RP
I am not saying the other side does not exist. What I am saying is that the number side does exist. Would it be good business to only address a portion of your audience when simply adding in numbers can address the majority.
Just like the car example if the devs want to use desriptions for AT's without numbers good to go. However, the numbers should be made available to those who would like to know them.
And before it is even replied (becuase it likely would have been). If I know the numbers and choose to use them that does not take away from the game play of someone who does not. If you donot want to crunch number, good for you. But just because you donot want to does not mean that no one should be able to.
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Just putting in my plea as so many others in this thread have already done...
Please Dev's, just give us the ACCURATE FORMULA'S that you use in game for powers.
This would help all of us to make decisions, and would allow the player base to inform you when something is not working AS PUBLISHED.
It is utterly pointless to attempt to "plan" a AT in game without hard numbers. I can add a enhancement to my powers which may give it a 33/20/whatever amount of "boost" but without knowing what the base actually is, it is an uninformed decision at best. While the Hero Planners help in this regard, there is still a dark cloud of mystery around making decisions in game about our AT's and this needs to end.
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Everytime I hear people discuss "planning their AT and needing the numbers" I cringe.
Here's a concept. Build a toon. Play it. See if it sucks. Learn how to get around said suckage.
Wash-rinse-repeat until you have one you really like. My favorite toons - were never built using a numbers template - I just played them and enjoyed them. I never thought about the numbers and 90% of the people in the game don't either.
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I used to be able to do that. With the implementation of ED, and having to have relearned how to play my 8 main toons (something i seem to have to do with at least one or two with each nerfue) I cannot afford to any longer. I simply dont have the time. I dont want to make *any* mistakes if it comes to respecing powers or slotting. There were several times i made those mistakes and a toon would become unplayable until the next nerfue and the accompanying 'freespec'
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They were hard - and I had to learn a lot through trial and error and eventually they're all awesome toons. Needing the numbers to build a good toon is like - - needing to know the specs on a cars engine to enjoy a drive on a sunday.
Sure it might help - but it's hardly necessary - and in general gets in the way of enjoying the scenery if you have to stop and monkey with the mechanics every 10 miles to make sure it's in top performance. If for some weird reason - they change the road on you - or the car suddenly isn't able to out run that sporty new job ... you're spending waaay too much time mechanics - and not enough on enjoying the drive.
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No, what gets in the way of that Sunday drive is taking the car in for service and after getting it back, finding your buckets seats have been replaced with a bench seat. The reason? "Your car was never meant to have bucket seats." Still driveable? yeah, but certainly not as much fun.
Or even more applicable.. "Your car has been equiped with new tires that only allow you to inflate them halfway. Because you were never meant to get 30 mpg, or go faster than 50 mph"
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No matter how much they nerf something - it will not change anything. You will still have to play
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No, actually i dont have to. The question is 'Will I want to?"
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Now... half the posts in these forums scream that new content needs to be added... something has to change.
Okay - it just changed. Is your toon unplayable? Or is it just harder than ever? If it's one - then guess what, game rules changed and it's time to start the process over.
If it's just harder than ever... over come it. Haven't seen anyone on these forums yet that isn't capable of rising to that occasion. We got great players in this game... if the game gets harder - we just gotta get smarter... and we will.
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Making the same few missions harder does not, has not, nor will it ever equal 'new content'. Harder does not equal smarter. See cuz they'll either increase xp given out or decrease debt.
Nevermind the bad code that spawns a map full of yellow and orange minion/lt combos (and only at intersections.. lotsa empty empty hallways) in coh. In fact, I rarely see any mish hero-side that isnt that way from 1-25 or so. (And yes, I'm set to heroic.)
What I see is that full attention is only being given to the PvP side of the game. And each 'tweak' to better pvp makes pve suck worse than dirty brown water.
Even with all the xp and debt changes, I still run out of missions sometime during L9 and either need to street sweep or go to the Hollows. Neither of which are very appealing to me. Yet the focus remains on PvP issues.
My 50's have been nerfed into the ground for PvP's sake, yet cannot get their own PvP missions. Oh, and the maps are broken for them.. still. Nor have they had any new content in .. well I can barely remember the L40+ content in coh.. long enough that I cant even remember the issue.
It would be nice if in these between issue patches they'd fix the quality of life issues first.
This patch contains a lot of ill-conceived things. I'd perfer the hami-o exploiters keep the exploit for however long than than see some of the truely dumb things this patch does.
Here's an idea.. scrap this patch, continue with issue 7 and once issue 7 is released, go back to reworking the items in this patch.
Instead of breaking more of the working systems, how about fixing some of the already broken ones?
~Liberty~
The LEGION (CoH) - The Fallen LEGION (CoV)
Forget your fears and want no more
50's - Renkoro, Remorseless
~Virtue~
Angry Angels / Jaded Angels
Global - @Puretone
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Making the same few missions harder does not, has not, nor will it ever equal 'new content'. Harder does not equal smarter. See cuz they'll either increase xp given out or decrease debt.
Nevermind the bad code that spawns a map full of yellow and orange minion/lt combos (and only at intersections.. lotsa empty empty hallways) in coh. In fact, I rarely see any mish hero-side that isnt that way from 1-25 or so. (And yes, I'm set to heroic.)
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The spawns of +1 are normal and "working as intended". They can be rough, but it's to throw in a bit of a challenge. Not everything is white.
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What I see is that full attention is only being given to the PvP side of the game. And each 'tweak' to better pvp makes pve suck worse than dirty brown water.
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PvP is not the root of all evil. If something is abusable in Pvp *and* PvE, why shouldn't it be fixed in both?
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Even with all the xp and debt changes, I still run out of missions sometime during L9 and either need to street sweep or go to the Hollows. Neither of which are very appealing to me. Yet the focus remains on PvP issues.
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The Hollows "equals" PvP problems? I think you have PvP paranoia.
This latest patch was a minor balance patch leading up to i7. That's it.
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My 50's have been nerfed into the ground for PvP's sake, yet cannot get their own PvP missions. Oh, and the maps are broken for them.. still. Nor have they had any new content in .. well I can barely remember the L40+ content in coh.. long enough that I cant even remember the issue.
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I'm not even sure what you are tying to say here. Because they haven't added PvE content for the 45+ game it is all PvPs fault? And not the fact that they've been filling in content at lower levels?
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It would be nice if in these between issue patches they'd fix the quality of life issues first.
This patch contains a lot of ill-conceived things. I'd perfer the hami-o exploiters keep the exploit for however long than than see some of the truely dumb things this patch does.
Here's an idea.. scrap this patch, continue with issue 7 and once issue 7 is released, go back to reworking the items in this patch.
Instead of breaking more of the working systems, how about fixing some of the already broken ones?
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Realistically, it looks like they are stating that "debuffing" stuff is now supposed to be equal to the upcoming Defense (and scale correctly.)
Debuffing is probably getting nerfed because Defense is getting such a big boost in i7.
Probably too much of a good thing. 
Still here, even after all this time!
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Accurcy buff was the wrong phrase... what it should have said was accuracy modifer for level. I edited it to make it more clear.
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Well, there is no accuracy modifier so to speak. What the "accuracy modifier for level" is is how enemy Base ToHit changes with level. It's not actually accuracy.