[ QUOTE ]
I have to say I'm sorry that the people involved in this took NOTHING away from the fact the thread was deleted yesterday...
You have people chiming in about this just because they "can"...with no real investment in the situation...You have blackballed someone because you don't like they way they play...
This person pissed of the wrong people...plain and simple...The whole thing wreaks of cliques and hypocrasy...
You have it right from CJ's own PM....or perhaps some Celebrites think they know better than CJ?
As I said yestersay when "Community" starts to equal mob mentality we have taken a seriously wrong turn...
I don't know this person at all....Maybe I would think hes a jerk, although Hes done nothing on the Forums so far that I find as reprehensible as the so called "good guys"...
He's not being Heroic enough for you??.. and adhereing to how you and your friends think a zone should be?....
There are "behaviors" in the game that I find unheroic and disturbing...While I may post frustrations and thoughts on teh subject...I generally try to keep it from becoming a manhunt and keep it along the lines of what postive steps can we make???....
What positive steps have you taken to resolve this?
Maybe hes earned a poor reputation amongst a few people....who of us hasn't? I'm not defending his actions in the zone or his attitude..I don't know him...but THIS is wrong any way you slice it..
While people are screaming "petition him" like "Off with his head"....I wonder why Tribal Axe is the only one to have investigated objectively??...or maybe others have and just didnt like the answer?
Excuse me but you haven't read any of my post from yesterday or today. Shame on you for reading what you want to. Yesterday I was perplexed becuz he's my buddy but my other buddies dont' like him. And rightly so. And today I offer solulutions to our problems. While at the same time appealing to him for peace. You are the one that sounds a bit high and mighty. Looking down on others for how they feel. It is every person's right to express thier like or dislike for any person's actions. I will not petition CK cuz I understand where he is coming from. FC can ruin SC. But i got over and learned to like FC. he can do the same or got war and fight. No one FC's there for real.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My two cents:
People are spectating at FC. One of them is your bounty. Walk up to them.
Ask:
"Hey, you are my bounty, can I just get the kill?"
They often say, "Sure" because they can just come right back.
If they say "No", then CHALLENGE THEM to a FC match.
If they say "No" to that, then:
A) Suck it up
B) Keep asking them
C) Explain to them
DO NOT ATTACK WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION.
In other areas, feel free to attack them. Not in FC. Just not there. Simple as that.
[/ QUOTE ]
thats teh problem right there though SS. why would i be a griefer for attacking someone in a PVP zone? cause that person says so? cause that person believes that he can sit in a PVP zone, that you are warned about you will be attacked?
its not so much that FC is the problem. the problem is that when people are on that roof they think that they should be immune to any attacks.
it that is the case whats to stop this. my tank is on his way to FC. villians are camping the base. they tp me into a swarm and decimate me. i call them griefers because they are interrupt my enjoyment of the zone to go to fight club.
so what is the difference, i want to participate in FC, does it matter that i am not on the roof yet and just on my way there? if it does matter than why? i am still in a pvp zone and free to be attacked?
[ QUOTE ]
But why take all that time to set it all up to fight?? when I can simply hop on a roof with 10 other people...battle three of them and be full of FC...then I can easily go and do the 5 or 6 other things there are to do in Siren's and not have to "waste" another 10 minutes to and from to the Arena to Siren's...
I don't want that much structure in my PvP Experience...I don't want to decide for 10 minutes what kind of match I want, list it, wait another 5-10 minutes for people to join the match...when all I have to do is go to a zone to pvp in a place WHERE I KNOW THERE WILL BE PEOPLE TO PVP WITH!!! I don't get that vibe with the Arena....I have waited up to 15 minutes to get in an arena match...to me...that's wayyyyyyy too long to get into a fight...
[/ QUOTE ]
There is nothing wront with feeling that way MB. there are pro's and cons on both sides of the coin. Keeping it in FC is fine, but people have to keep cool, and keep in mind that it is an Open zone and FC goers have no base to complain if they are interupted. Petitioning people for bounty hunting, and calling them out is just as bad as the aggravators repelling people off of rooftops.
While i dont condone these type of actions, i do not let myself get stirred from them.
your continous objection to my "jokingly" refering to myself as a celebrity will not make me stop. So you better bite the bullet and live with it.
And your right. I don't like the answer. I 100% disagree with a redname if they say there is nothing wrong with his behavour. I have every right to object to this.
You don't think so? well I supose that is your prerogative.
Which is why, when I am in Siren's, I tend to disagree more with the whinners then the people attacking them.
Keep you eyes open at all times. Tunnel vision will get you killed in there.
Who wants Pie?
[ QUOTE ]
well put.
the man is in an OPEN PvP zone. Heroes vs Villains. the fact that FC, not sanctioned/created by Cryptic, trying to subjugate their own "rules" onto a zone and specifically ONE person seems a little, maybe just a tad unfair?
if its so bad, why don't the villains team up and take him on? then the heroes can team up and have an all out slugfest... like it should be Heroes vs Villains.
peace.
[/ QUOTE ]
This explains my point in how so many people that dislike FC haven't been around it much...and really haven't experienced it enough to know what they're talking about...
Fight Clubs many times end up in an all our brawl...Everyone gets tired of doing the same ole thing in Siren's...and fight clubs get broken up all the time after a while...but that's the GREAT part about Siren's...there is enough to do for everyone...when you get tired of Regular PvP...you can hit hotspots...when you get tired of hotspots...you can FC...when you're tired of FC..you can street hunt...when you're tired of street hunting...you can do missions....there are tons of things for you to do besides PvP...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My two cents:
People are spectating at FC. One of them is your bounty. Walk up to them.
Ask:
"Hey, you are my bounty, can I just get the kill?"
They often say, "Sure" because they can just come right back.
If they say "No", then CHALLENGE THEM to a FC match.
If they say "No" to that, then:
A) Suck it up
B) Keep asking them
C) Explain to them
DO NOT ATTACK WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION.
In other areas, feel free to attack them. Not in FC. Just not there. Simple as that.
[/ QUOTE ]
thats teh problem right there though SS. why would i be a griefer for attacking someone in a PVP zone? cause that person says so? cause that person believes that he can sit in a PVP zone, that you are warned about you will be attacked?
its not so much that FC is the problem. the problem is that when people are on that roof they think that they should be immune to any attacks.
it that is the case whats to stop this. my tank is on his way to FC. villians are camping the base. they tp me into a swarm and decimate me. i call them griefers because they are interrupt my enjoyment of the zone to go to fight club.
so what is the difference, i want to participate in FC, does it matter that i am not on the roof yet and just on my way there? if it does matter than why? i am still in a pvp zone and free to be attacked?
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a difference between PvP and harrassment.
PvP is "Bam, I killed you. Good bye."
Harassment is "I've killed you once. Now I'll do it again just for fun while I get no bounty or rep....but you have to suffer with me."
50s: Silent Spy - MA/Regen Scrapper | Tinkerhell - SS/Inv Brute | Extrasensory - Psi/Men Blaster | Ana Cruz - DP/PD Corruptor | Sara Thunderbird - Elec/Elec Scrapper | Pinstrike - Spines/SR Scrapper | Cold Feet - Cold/Cold Blaster
@Silent Spy, Champion Server
[ QUOTE ]
I say petition him.
and before someone states that it is an open PvP zone and FC is not a sactioned event, let me state that this is not the point.
This person is Harrassing other players. Harrasment is something NC Soft does not take lightly.
If you feel you are being harassed, petition the player, it is your right.
petiitioning is easy type "/petition harassment by player (insert name here)"
be sure to include the date, and a small description of the harassment.
Harassment is subjective, so not everyone will agree, however it is your right as a paying costumer to report any ingame harassment.
[/ QUOTE ]
I petitioned a player who was doing this, and they basically said too bad your in a open pvp zone deal with it 
[ QUOTE ]
I have to say I'm sorry that the people involved in this took NOTHING away from the fact the thread was deleted yesterday...
You have people chiming in about this just because they "can"...with no real investment in the situation...You have blackballed someone because you don't like they way they play...
This person pissed of the wrong people...plain and simple...The whole thing wreaks of cliques and hypocrasy...
You have it right from CJ's own PM....or perhaps some posters think they know better than CJ?
As I said yestersay when "Community" starts to equal mob mentality we have taken a seriously wrong turn...
I don't know this person at all....Maybe I would think hes a jerk, although Hes done nothing on the Forums so far that I find as reprehensible as the so called "good guys"...
He's not being Heroic enough for you??.. and adhereing to how you and your friends think a zone should be?....
There are "behaviors" in the game that I find unheroic and disturbing...While I may post frustrations and thoughts on the subject...I generally try to keep it from becoming a manhunt and keep it along the lines of what postive steps can we make???....
What positive steps have you taken to resolve this?
Maybe hes earned a poor reputation amongst a few people....who of us hasn't? I'm not defending his actions in the zone or his attitude..I don't know him...but THIS is wrong any way you slice it..
While people are screaming "petition him" like "Off with his head"....I wonder why Tribal Axe is the only one to have investigated objectively??...or maybe others have and just didnt like the answer?
[/ QUOTE ]
Excuse me but you haven't read any of my post from yesterday or today. Shame on you for reading what you want to. Yesterday I was perplexed becuz he's my buddy but my other buddies dont' like him. And rightly so. And today I offer solulutions to our problems. While at the same time appealing to him for peace. You are the one that sounds a bit high and mighty. Looking down on others for how they feel. It is every person's right to express thier like or dislike for any person's actions. I will not petition CK cuz I understand where he is coming from. FC can ruin SC. But i got over it and learned to like FC. he can do the same or got warburg and fight. No one FC's there for real any way just all out war.
how bout a
<-----------banana
but its tough to pvp when everyone in the zone is at fight club, and dont tell me it doesn't happen as when i log in after work thats what it is 70% of the time.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My two cents:
People are spectating at FC. One of them is your bounty. Walk up to them.
Ask:
"Hey, you are my bounty, can I just get the kill?"
They often say, "Sure" because they can just come right back.
If they say "No", then CHALLENGE THEM to a FC match.
If they say "No" to that, then:
A) Suck it up
B) Keep asking them
C) Explain to them
DO NOT ATTACK WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION.
In other areas, feel free to attack them. Not in FC. Just not there. Simple as that.
[/ QUOTE ]
thats teh problem right there though SS. why would i be a griefer for attacking someone in a PVP zone? cause that person says so? cause that person believes that he can sit in a PVP zone, that you are warned about you will be attacked?
its not so much that FC is the problem. the problem is that when people are on that roof they think that they should be immune to any attacks.
it that is the case whats to stop this. my tank is on his way to FC. villians are camping the base. they tp me into a swarm and decimate me. i call them griefers because they are interrupt my enjoyment of the zone to go to fight club.
so what is the difference, i want to participate in FC, does it matter that i am not on the roof yet and just on my way there? if it does matter than why? i am still in a pvp zone and free to be attacked?
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a difference between PvP and harrassment.
PvP is "Bam, I killed you. Good bye."
Harassment is "I've killed you once. Now I'll do it again just for fun while I get no bounty or rep....but you have to suffer with me."
[/ QUOTE ]
whos killing who multiple times? the only 1 i see getting killed over and over is Catholic.
Therefore by your definition he is being harrassed 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I say petition him.
and before someone states that it is an open PvP zone and FC is not a sactioned event, let me state that this is not the point.
This person is Harrassing other players. Harrasment is something NC Soft does not take lightly.
If you feel you are being harassed, petition the player, it is your right.
petiitioning is easy type "/petition harassment by player (insert name here)"
be sure to include the date, and a small description of the harassment.
Harassment is subjective, so not everyone will agree, however it is your right as a paying costumer to report any ingame harassment.
[/ QUOTE ]
I petitioned a player who was doing this, and they basically said too bad your in a open pvp zone deal with it
[/ QUOTE ]
That's not true. What they did say was you are not privialaged to the results and that it is between NC Soft and the Player petitioned against.
About the Arena:
If you set-up an open match that requires 20+ defeats to win, can people come into and go out of the match as they please?
If so, you could theoretically setup a perpetual open FFA match that required 100 defeats, allowing people to enter the match whenever they wanted FC. However, I don't believe that this is the case, and that is why the Arena may not work for FC. (I still that FC is best suited to Warburg, so you can fight anyone.) 
About the 'griefing' controversy:
A differently worded PM to CuppaJo could yield quite an opposite response. The manner in which the previously mention PM stated things lead to a certain viewpoint; it did not simply ask if someone could be harassed in a PvP zone. In the business world, harassment is defined by the accuser/victim, not the accused/perpetrator. Likewise, if enough people report someone, the devs will take notice.
Anyone who was interested in maintaining friendly relations would be well advised to be considerate of others. If someone is acting obnoxious, chances are that they don't actually care about their victim's feelings or concerns.
Genna, with all due respect and I truly mean it. See my responses to your well stated arguments.
[ QUOTE ]
You have people chiming in about this just because they "can"...with no real investment in the situation...You have blackballed someone because you don't like they way they play...
[/ QUOTE ]
This works both ways...the majority of the players in the champion server selected to create this idea of Fight Club and most embraced it. So it works both ways...HE doesn't like the way that most players have decided to do PvP in this zone. Is that wrong?
[ QUOTE ]
This person pissed of the wrong people...plain and simple...The whole thing wreaks of cliques and hypocrasy...
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. He pissed off a lot of people when there is really no need to behave the way he does.
There is not such thing as a small, private, or privilage group of players who observe Fight Club and expect others to abide by it. That's just not the case. Fight Club happens spontaneously by anyone who wants to 1v1 and others join in.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know this person at all....Maybe I would think hes a jerk, although Hes done nothing on the Forums so far that I find as reprehensible as the so called "good guys"...
[/ QUOTE ]
Here you answered your own question...you really don't know this guy apart from reading a few posts of his here and there.
[ QUOTE ]
He's not being Heroic enough for you??.. and adhereing to how you and your friends think a zone should be?....
[/ QUOTE ]
I just don't think this is the case. Again, there are many, many, many people that like to do FC while in Sirens apart from the VERY few who post in the Forums.
[ QUOTE ]
There are "behaviors" in the game that I find unheroic and disturbing...While I may post frustrations and thoughts on teh subject...I generally try to keep it from becoming a manhunt and keep it along the lines of what postive steps can we make???....
What positive steps have you taken to resolve this?
Maybe hes earned a poor reputation amongst a few people....who of us hasn't? I'm not defending his actions in the zone or his attitude..I don't know him...but THIS is wrong any way you slice it..
While people are screaming "petition him" like "Off with his head"....I wonder why Tribal Axe is the only one to have investigated objectively??...or maybe others have and just didnt like the answer?
[/ QUOTE ]
I like this idea...what can be done? Well, here you run into the problem of those who frequent the Forums and those who do not. There are more players who do not frequent the forums...and whether we come up with some sort of compromise, or whatever you want to to call it, there is still the majority of players who just play the game and dont' bother with the Forums. There is no way with "policing" this group.
The kid has done this to himself through not fault of our own, and I'm sorry that you can't see that or at least recognize it. But I'll promise you that I will do my part not to make things worse and I guess that's the only thing that anyone else here can do. If he wants to do 1v1 battles to collect his bounty, I'm game. If he wants to have street brawls to have his fun, I'm game. But I hope that he, and you, recognize that this game should not revolve around anyone's specific ideals of how a zone should be like. Because it's not, has never been that way, and should never be that way.
If we're a "community" in all the sense of the word, then let the community decide.
Kind regards,
[ QUOTE ]
when you're tired of FC..you can street hunt...when you're tired of street hunting...you can do missions....there are tons of things for you to do besides PvP... unless you are there for just PvP, and you dont want to be aggravated by NPC mobs in hot spots while you collect your bounty. Then you have to communicate with the person you are trying to collect from if they are on top of a building standing around, or risk being harrassed in broadcast by the other ten people standing on the SC roof when you move in for your kill.,
[/ QUOTE ]
See where this can lead?
what i said in orange isnt always true, but it does happen...and it isnt very fun to a lot of people.
I read both of your posts FF...
Im hardly petitioning for peace...not remotely my point..if something is upsetting you or others that much in game...then of course stand up and speak out!...Its the way its being done that I have issue with...and the fact that some of the people complaining decide what side of the fence they are on based on whats popular and whos involved rather than a true sense of right and wrong, or that something is only wrong when it begins to effect them...
My thoughts both yesterday and today are primarily directed at the people on these forums who clearly know better and have actually defended tooth and nail other people who have done similar things in game simply because they were "friends"...
I happen to think YOUR heart is in the right place however I disagree with your methods...
if you find my posts High and Mighty...Ill take that as a compliment because I do at least TRY to take the higher road ( I often fail miserably) Words are a very mighty weapon when used properly..Which is why Im disheartened to see the type of posts I have seen yesterday and today by people who I believe know better...
Again I do feel you as an individual are trying to accomplish something positive...I thought your post yesterday was a heartfelt plea that got turned into something ugly...I just disagree with your methods of trying to accomplish your goal...
Hmm I wonder if he would like if I leveled up a /Sonic Corruptor and did nothing but follow him around Sirens and put him in Sonic Cage. I wonder if he would consider that griefing him.
[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts both yesterday and today are primarily directed at the people on these forums who clearly know better and have actually defended tooth and nail other people who have done similar things in game simply because they were "friends"...
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see an example of this.
Just to make things clear here -
If someone attacks you in a PvP zone and you are having an RP event (like FC) that is NOT harassment.
If you are in a PvP zone you can attack another player repeatedly.
However - you cannot trash talk someone using vulgar words, racial slurs, sexual slurs or other UA violating actions (something is occurring over and over with the intention to harass, it may be actioned.) That IS harassment and can be actioned against by the GMs.
You could also be actioned for exploiting in a PvP zone - for example - by hanging out as a villain in a hero hospital to gank heroes as they respawn. This is not as designed and may be actioned.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts both yesterday and today are primarily directed at the people on these forums who clearly know better and have actually defended tooth and nail other people who have done similar things in game simply because they were "friends"...
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see an example of this.
[/ QUOTE ]
me too
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
when you're tired of FC..you can street hunt...when you're tired of street hunting...you can do missions....there are tons of things for you to do besides PvP... unless you are there for just PvP, and you dont want to be aggravated by NPC mobs in hot spots while you collect your bounty. Then you have to communicate with the person you are trying to collect from if they are on top of a building standing around, or risk being harrassed in broadcast by the other ten people standing on the SC roof when you move in for your kill.,
[/ QUOTE ]
See where this can lead?
what i said in orange isnt always true, but it does happen...and it isnt very fun to a lot of people.
[/ QUOTE ]
Final, if your only concern is PvP and getting your bounty...why does it even matter what people think of you? should it matter that after you kill your bounty in a FC match that 10 heroes or villains gang up on you and send you to the hospital quickly?
would you be mad if you did get ganked when you were only "trying to get your bounty"? If not, then why does it matter...they can't stop you with words...
[ QUOTE ]
im sorry, but catholic goes to the zone more than to just "grief" i have teamed with Catholic multiple times and we have gone out bounty hunting as well as hotspot fighting. he doesn't go there just to grief.
[/ QUOTE ]
As much as it pains me to say this, I agree. I have seen Catholic do more than push people off the FC building. He has fought--when there are people in there actually fighting, which doesn't happen just a whole lot. That said, I don't appreciate his play style--using NPC's to kill people is dishonorable in my book.
But, it is legal. Trying to petition him for all this is futile, and is stretching the harrassment a bit much. He can be killed, I've seen it, and been on teams that have done it. If it is of such concern, then villains capable of attacking him need to do so, and actually work within the rules of PvP rather than complaining that he is interrupting FC, which, frankly, is a luxury. If you can get the FC going and stay unharassed, fine, but don't be dismayed if one or more players decide to ruin the party. Its SC, there are bounties to be had, and I'm there to defeat people, not have tea and cookies while everyone stands around jousts.
I don't agree with Catholic's use of pushing people into NPC's, but the solution is ultimately going to have to come from the player community.
And let me be clear: I am not defending CK's actions--I do not agree with them. What I am saying is that the villain community can mount a response.
Besides, who is to say that there will be more than 2 people in SC once Recluse's Victory hits in I7? This may not be an issue in a month. I know I'm going there--full access to all my villain's soon to be level 50 powers is what I am interested in--not playing my gimped toon in SC.
Thanks for the reply CJ, but you realize you just brought the entire Forum population into this discussion to spam the thread, right? 
[ QUOTE ]
I have to say I'm sorry that the people involved in this took NOTHING away from the fact the thread was deleted yesterday...
You have people chiming in about this just because they "can"...with no real investment in the situation...You have blackballed someone because you don't like they way they play...
This person pissed of the wrong people...plain and simple...The whole thing wreaks of cliques and hypocrasy...
You have it right from CJ's own PM....or perhaps some Celebrites think they know better than CJ?
As I said yestersay when "Community" starts to equal mob mentality we have taken a seriously wrong turn...
I don't know this person at all....Maybe I would think hes a jerk, although Hes done nothing on the Forums so far that I find as reprehensible as the so called "good guys"...
He's not being Heroic enough for you??.. and adhereing to how you and your friends think a zone should be?....
There are "behaviors" in the game that I find unheroic and disturbing...While I may post frustrations and thoughts on teh subject...I generally try to keep it from becoming a manhunt and keep it along the lines of what postive steps can we make???....
What positive steps have you taken to resolve this?
Maybe hes earned a poor reputation amongst a few people....who of us hasn't?
While people are screaming "petition him" like "Off with his head"....I wonder why Tribal Axe is the only one to have investigated objectively??...or maybe others have and just didnt like the answer?
[/ QUOTE ]
well put.
the man is in an OPEN PvP zone. Heroes vs Villains. the fact that FC, not sanctioned/created by Cryptic, trying to subjugate their own "rules" onto a zone and specifically ONE person seems a little, maybe just a tad unfair?
if its so bad, why don't the villains team up and take him on? then the heroes can team up and have an all out slugfest... like it should be Heroes vs Villains.
peace.