Issue 7: Patron Arcs

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I believe, if they are pernament, then they need to tell us
about the powers BEFORE we even get there. This way we
can atleast make our power choices, since there are some
who plan their character out at level 1-50.

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Luckily for you, they will be hard numbers and information posted about the different PPPs *before* you can take your patron arc.

Still here, even after all this time!

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This just ignores reality. Positron stated that the choice is TRULY permanent

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Yes, I'm not saying otherwise. I'm saying that we don't know what it is we'd be permanently committing TO yet. A pool of four powers? Six? Eight? Preset, in a given order, or fluid? Like the hero ancillary powers, or not?

I've shifted my position a bit now, anyway. I'm pretty much convinced it's all about removing the incentive to PL.

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Well, there's that and the mixed signals we've sent to the devs that many of us want to feel more tied into the overall game narrative.

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Clint, I get what you're saying and I don't necessarily disagree with this as an OPTION. But for me, I write up my character background/history and then I use it and stick to it. I seriously do not want to engage any more of the narrative than I have to.

There are reasons for this, many of them, but the primary one is simply this: I don't like the narrative. I like doing my own stories for my characters. Yeah, I'll use some mission stories to augment here and there, but overall, I follow my own agenda. I like the freedom I have to do this in CoH. I want the same in CoV.

I feel focusing more and more on the NPC stories threatens our own character stories to an extent---if we have no means to opt out of this focus. Apparently, however, we're to be cajoled, hog-tied into our chairs and FORCED to read all about how awesome Capt Mako is and how much he hates that ridiculous Scorpion freak. Or, pick any other combo.

No thanks. It's good for the youngsters who enjoy that sort of thing; well, some adults, too, no doubt. But for me, it's a major irritation. Add on to this the fact that once I succumb to the onus of a patron, I can't do anything else but tow the line until the dismal end, is just insult upon injury. Let me say it another way: it's not fun, for me.

I realize I get a little carried away in over-analyzing situations and motivations (RE: my personal digs @ States) but really, I try to figure out what on earth is going through people's minds when they come up with ideas like this. There's just got to be more to it than: hey, what a neato idea! ETC.

Regardless, the design and code is set---publically announced, even. The patron system WILL be forthcoming whether we like it or not.

Cal2

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Grab yourself a bit more salt....here's a bit more info from Bridger over on the UK forums.
...
And Bridger's reply was:
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That's how I understand it, although there are 5 ATs, so it'll be 5 pools with 4 powers in each pool, as far as I know.

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So, from what Bridger knows, Ghost Widow has one power pool for each AT, with 4 powers in each pool [and so on with the other patrons].

Which would mean that, once you've selected your Patron, you only get to choose from 4 powers.

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Yeah, I saw this posted here before. Since there is some level of disconnect between Cryptic Studios and the NCSoft community reps occasionally, I think a fair number of forum vets were going to wait until Monday before incorporating this into the discussion fully. Bridger could be operating off of assumptions or old info, but I've thought that this was going to be the way of PPPs since the COV tease in CGW magazine last summer. It's a logical extension of the structure of APPs, but I'm willing to wait until next week to fold it into discussion of PPPs.

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Clint, I get what you're saying and I don't necessarily disagree with this as an OPTION. But for me, I write up my character background/history and then I use it and stick to it. I seriously do not want to engage any more of the narrative than I have to.

There are reasons for this, many of them, but the primary one is simply this: I don't like the narrative.

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That's fair. I hope that there are non-patron PPPs (I recognize the paradoxical usage of terms.) along the lines of CoH's APPs (which is, realistically speaking, unlikely at this stage) or that one can do one or two missions for the patron and then ignore the patron if one chooses - just for this reason.

There are all sorts of rails in CoH and CoV already, so one can't say that PPPs change CoV from a free-form content game into a railed game. However, it would be nice to maintain the level of free-form choice that long-time players are accustomed to.

Where's I7 when you need it

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Clint, I get what you're saying and I don't necessarily disagree with this as an OPTION. But for me, I write up my character background/history and then I use it and stick to it. I seriously do not want to engage any more of the narrative than I have to.

There are reasons for this, many of them, but the primary one is simply this: I don't like the narrative.

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That's fair. I hope that there are non-patron PPPs (I recognize the paradoxical usage of terms.) along the lines of CoH's APPs (which is, realistically speaking, unlikely at this stage) or that one can do one or two missions for the patron and then ignore the patron if one chooses - just for this reason.

There are all sorts of rails in CoH and CoV already, so one can't say that PPPs change CoV from a free-form content game into a railed game. However, it would be nice to maintain the level of free-form choice that long-time players are accustomed to.

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Precisely.

Oh, and, btw, I'm not necessarily saying the narrative is no good. I'm simply pointing out not everyone finds it appealing; I'm one of those.

One of my characters, Mor-Dante, is a member of the Galactic Vangaurd (think Lensmen type galactic police force) who, through the suspicious actions of a fellow patrolman, winds up serving the Space Beast, Celadon (a massive, galactic space entity with unbelievable psychic powers). Once captured and coerced by this monster, one has little choice but to follow it's dictates. Mor-Dante has been sent to Earth to recon and gather data on all the bizarro energies the Space Beast has detected erupting here. He's preparing the way for an invasion by the monster's humanoid criminal organization, the Octagon. Though he believes he's here for his own purposes, Mor-Dante still wouldn't willingly join the ranks of any two-bit, Earth-freak crimelord---Now, of course, he could be made to by his real 'master', but really--I'd only do that if the Story was compelling enough for me to do so.

As I've said, it's not, for me.

One example of why my main villain wouldn't fall for this PPP system and will, not doubt, wind up gimped because of it. How fun is that?

Cal2

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Where's I7 when you need it

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That I7 is so undependable. Someone needs to buy him a watch. Or a calendar.

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This thread is barely 24 hrs old and is already 34 pages long......you'd think this would send a message to the devs.

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What message? That's there's a small group of players who get hysterical over incomplete information and post multiple times?

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Feeble attempt at Trolling---specious and disingenuous backbiting.

Cal2

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Trolling? How am I trying to elicit more responses when I'm ridiculing the overreaction already present?

Specious and disingenuous? What's false about the fact that there are hysterical responses to incomplete information? (And stop being redundant.)

Backbiting? Behind who's back am I saying mean things? I'm saying it to all your faces.

Throw a dictionary in the shopping cart when you're picking up a clue.

I had suggested to the developers, via a PM to CuppaJo, that the developers have Epic Power Pools AND Patron Power Pools for both heroes and villains. I suggested that they keep the Patron Powers as is, but make the Epic Powers lesser than the Patron Powers but greater than the standard Power Pool powers.

So this would bring Epics to the villains, and give the heroes Patron Powers from Statesman and company (unless Statesman doesn't give the option, as Lord Recluse isn't currently included in the list of available patrons).

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Positron: any word on whether or not there'll be "generic" ancillary powers for villains?

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And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.

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I'm sure it was taken into account... what I want to know is why they decided to go the "permanent" route.

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It may be that they are trying to tie more of the story into the game itself. I notice a lot of players will completely ingore the world of CoX and roleplay their characters as if Statesman/Lord Recluse didn't even exist. I think this might be a something that is supposed to bring players deeper into the world that this game exists in, rather than just skimming across the surface.

HOW TO ENJOY ALL OF PATRON CONTENT AND POWER ON ONE TOON

This post contains assumptions which may or may not wind up being fact, but, nevertheless, I believe they're sound.



Seeing the Content of Each Patron Arc

This is for:

1. If you're concerned about the right story fitting in with your character concept.

2. You just want to see the content of each arc.

Then do this: Copy your toon to the Test Server four times. Run through each arc. Now you know them all and can take you main toon on a live server through the one you want, if you want any of them at all in the end.




Seeing or Trying Out the Powers of Each Patron

This is for:

1. If you want to see if the powers of the patron 'fits' with your character concept (would my villain really carry a mace?).

2. If you want to try out all the powers and test them (especially to see what will make you uber in PvP).

Then do this:

1. On a Live Server, bring your toon up to level 49 without any of the Patron powers (don't do their arcs). Make sure you do the level 44 respec or save a free respec if it comes.

2. Copy your toon to Test four times. With each copy, run through each of the arcs.

3. On Test, respec each of your four toons into taking all the powers of your Patron. (Yes, I'm assuming that you can respec powers in the powerset, even though you can't change which Patron Powerset you have... just like AT powersets.)

4. Now that you know how your toon would be with each of the four Patron Powersets and without, decide which one you want.

5. If you choose no Patron Powerset for your main toon, do nothing. If you choose one of the Patron Powersets, then run your toon on live through that Patron's arc and then respec into those powers.




Seeing the Content and Powers of Each Patron Arc During the Test Period

When I7 goes to Test before it goes live, you will not have the option of copying over a level 49 toon to Test, because, at the moment, you can't have a level 49 toon to copy to Test. So, do this:

1. Before I7 hits Test, copy your toon to Test *five* times.

2. With four of the copies, run through each of the arcs.

3. Hope that the devs will give us a level bump somewhere along the way. You will then have five 50-ish toons on Test: one without Patron Powers, and four with one each of the Patron Powers. Take all the Patron Powers available and test them out.




That Won't Work Because You're Assuming X, When I'm Assuming Y

I told you I was making some assumptions. I simply hope I'm right.




I Wouldn't Want Them To Do It the Way You Assume!!

Yes, I'm sure you've already made that clear. I'm not arguing they should do it this way, I'm just guessing this is what's going down whether you, I, or anyone else likes it or not.

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Except, you won't be able to. Once you've chosen a patron, regardless of your conecpt or story, that's it. You're stuck. You have no other options. There are no 'other ways' except in your own mind where, presumably, you've already created your concept story. heh heh

I find it interesting to see that you believe this system would annoy the powergamers rather than the storygamers---a contradiction of my opinion above. Not being a powergamer, myself, I'm not quite sure I follow that. Unless, of course, you're saying the lack of respec is the choke point? If so, yeah, I can see that.

Cal2

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I'm saying that the sticking point with RP'ers appears to be that people want total control over their villain's story. That's not unreasonable. But in comics, as in real life, the choices a Villain makes have unintended consequences ALL THE TIME. That's what makes them interesting, sympathetic, and occasionally tragic, even while they're plotting the downfall of humanity. My villain may THINK he's infallible, he may THINK that choosing Ghost Widow as a patron is a great idea because she's weak, or that Mako can be doublecrossed, or that Black Scorpion can be duped, but those Archvillains didn't get to the top of Arachnos by accident. Wresting power from them won't be easy.

RP'ers want to be writers and characters at the same time, and that generally means they don't ever want their characters to EVER make a mistake. But that makes for a boring story! Star Wars (and I speak of the original set of movies, here) was interesting because the main characters made mistakes ALL THE TIME. The plot was dynamic. By contrast, Waterworld (in which the lead actor also directed and produced the film) was terrible, because the main character never made any mistakes, ever, and was thus incredibly boring to watch.

All I'm saying is, a good RP'er makes use of whatever the Devs throw at him to continue the character's story. They can adapt. A bad RP'er refuses to accept that other people can influence HIS designs, when in fact they are already surrounded by the interlocking stories of others.

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Seeing or Trying Out the Powers of Each Patron

This is for:

1. If you want to see if the powers of the patron 'fits' with your character concept (would my villain really carry a mace?).

2. If you want to try out all the powers and test them (especially to see what will make you uber in PvP).

Then do this:

1. On a Live Server, bring your toon up to level 49 without any of the Patron powers (don't do their arcs). Make sure you do the level 44 respec or save a free respec if it comes.

2. Copy your toon to Test four times. With each copy, run through each of the arcs.

3. On Test, respec each of your four toons into taking all the powers of your Patron. (Yes, I'm assuming that you can respec powers in the powerset, even though you can't change which Patron Powerset you have... just like AT powersets.)

4. Now that you know how your toon would be with each of the four Patron Powersets and without, decide which one you want.

5. If you choose no Patron Powerset for your main toon, do nothing. If you choose one of the Patron Powersets, then run your toon on live through that Patron's arc and then respec into those powers.

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You know, that's all well and good, and certainly possible. However, you DO realize that it means going from 41-49 without taking a single new power? Then at 49, you can copy to Test, and see which powers you would have enjoyed on those previous levels, but now are pretty much just useless tchotchke (except for that level...yay)?

Zombie_Man, if you or anyone else would like to make such a noble sacrifice for the good of the rest of us, then I salute you. Ye gods man, other people have "suggested" this before, but I'm not sure they really understand what they're saying. Grinding from 41-49 with ZERO new powers or slots, sounds like my own personal definition of Hell. Talk about tedium!

I'm not even positive that plan would allow you to even get the story arc(s), since you've outleveled it (maybe). Or you'd get it, but be facing -8s constantly (maybe). Too many variables, too many squandered opportunities.

Me, I think I'll just pick whatever PPPs are offered, and stick with them no matter what. See a previous post for my lack of real concern for permanentness or not. However, I will say that the solution quoted above, is a thousand times worse than the problem it's solving.

Okay Ruin_Of_Iron, first off, Waterworld was awesome and you'd better recant those nigh-heretical statements.

Heh, look, I see what you're saying, and can dig that if PPPs are the ONLY option. Characters that take those should (arguably) be held accountable for their decisions. I can understand the reasoning behind it, even if I'm not totally in agreement that it's the best way.

However, what I and others have also been clamoring for, is an alternative to PPPs. We want access to either a) a non-Arachnos Patron, or b) some At-specific Pools such as those for Heroes but aren't aligned with a Patron, or preferably c) both PLUS the PPPs. What we do NOT want, is to be railroaded into taking an Arachnos Patron, if we want to get any special powers AT ALL! Give us SOMETHING, anything! It's not so much to ask!

Sure, it's easy enough to say "then just don't take the new Pools and continue on like normal", like some have said, but ye gods man, talk about a slap to the face. To be given nothing. There'd be no point to going on after 40, save for sheer completion addicts.

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Okay Ruin_Of_Iron, first off, Waterworld was awesome and you'd better recant those nigh-heretical statements.

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DEATH FIRST! *shakes fist in defiance*

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Heh, look, I see what you're saying, and can dig that if PPPs are the ONLY option. Characters that take those should (arguably) be held accountable for their decisions. I can understand the reasoning behind it, even if I'm not totally in agreement that it's the best way.

However, what I and others have also been clamoring for, is an alternative to PPPs. We want access to either a) a non-Arachnos Patron, or b) some At-specific Pools such as those for Heroes but aren't aligned with a Patron, or preferably c) both PLUS the PPPs. What we do NOT want, is to be railroaded into taking an Arachnos Patron, if we want to get any special powers AT ALL! Give us SOMETHING, anything! It's not so much to ask!

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Then you and I are in agreement. More options are always good, and a nonaligned patron (wouldn't Archmage Tarixus rock?) is an excellent idea.
I merely point out that i7 is, for all intents and purposes, done. They're already at the minor tweaking, code-polishing stage of things. If such an item isn't ALREADY in the build, screaming for it will not improve the situation. I'd MUCH rather have 5 perfectly-balanced, well-thunked PPPs, than six half-arsed ones because they crammed a nonaligned one in at the last minute to shut everyone up.

Capiche?

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Okay Ruin_Of_Iron, first off, Waterworld was awesome and you'd better recant those nigh-heretical statements.

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DEATH FIRST! *shakes fist in defiance*

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The secret to enjoying Waterworld is to imagine someone else playing the Mariner besides Costner, or just ignore him. Ol' Kev can do some good work, but he can really stink up the place too if he (or his ego) gets too involved in the production. See The Postman. Or actually, don't, and save yourself.

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Heh, look, I see what you're saying, and can dig that if PPPs are the ONLY option. Characters that take those should (arguably) be held accountable for their decisions. I can understand the reasoning behind it, even if I'm not totally in agreement that it's the best way.

However, what I and others have also been clamoring for, is an alternative to PPPs. We want access to either a) a non-Arachnos Patron, or b) some At-specific Pools such as those for Heroes but aren't aligned with a Patron, or preferably c) both PLUS the PPPs. What we do NOT want, is to be railroaded into taking an Arachnos Patron, if we want to get any special powers AT ALL! Give us SOMETHING, anything! It's not so much to ask!

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Then you and I are in agreement. More options are always good, and a nonaligned patron (wouldn't Archmage Tarixus rock?) is an excellent idea.
I merely point out that i7 is, for all intents and purposes, done. They're already at the minor tweaking, code-polishing stage of things. If such an item isn't ALREADY in the build, screaming for it will not improve the situation. I'd MUCH rather have 5 perfectly-balanced, well-thunked PPPs, than six half-arsed ones because they crammed a nonaligned one in at the last minute to shut everyone up.

Capiche?

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Oh sure, and like I said earlier, it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if they send out I7 as is now, and give us the alternative post-40 Pools and arcs later. In fact, that's what I EXPECT them to do. I still have a bit of faith in this dev team to cater to my whims. Heh.

Of course, I can say that, because the characters in question here are nowhere near 40, and if they get there before then, I have plenty of other characters I can play. I'm just honestly surprised that Cryptic didn't consider that anyone would object to devoting themselves to Arachnos (and I realize that's an enormous assumption, but until I see evidence to the contrary...).

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Then you and I are in agreement. More options are always good, and a nonaligned patron (wouldn't Archmage Tarixus rock?) is an excellent idea.

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I think the dynamic of patrons is putting some people off. They feel, well, patronized. If we're going to have high-level contacts who point us to missions and give us new powers, then one way to do it is to have them working for us, even if they are doing so unwillingly: captive scientists we force to develop new tech, occult students we enslave so that they can research spells to maximise our power, millionaire corporation heads we blackmail into giving us the fruits of their tech programs, that kind of thing.

It's really not uncommon for villains to get empowered or enhanced by other villains in comics, though, especially villains of the footsoldier variety. The Grizzly gets his suit worked on by the Tinkerer. The Wrecker's crowbar was upgraded by Loki. Baron Mordo calls on Dormammu for extra power. It's pretty standard comic stuff.

I can see how one'd run into concept trouble if one wrote oneself as the UNFLINCHING DESTROYER OF UNIVERSES AND EMPEROR OF EIGHT DIMENSIONS WHO BOWS TO NO MAN or whatnot, but it seems to me a good author works with the setting, not overrides it. If one writes a guy who'd never work for Arachnos in a game where everyone works for Arachnos, that's fine and one's decision to do, but I'm not sure it's Cryptic's problem. Same for patrons.

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Seeing or Trying Out the Powers of Each Patron

This is for:

1. If you want to see if the powers of the patron 'fits' with your character concept (would my villain really carry a mace?).

2. If you want to try out all the powers and test them (especially to see what will make you uber in PvP).

Then do this:

1. On a Live Server, bring your toon up to level 49 without any of the Patron powers (don't do their arcs). Make sure you do the level 44 respec or save a free respec if it comes.

2. Copy your toon to Test four times. With each copy, run through each of the arcs.

3. On Test, respec each of your four toons into taking all the powers of your Patron. (Yes, I'm assuming that you can respec powers in the powerset, even though you can't change which Patron Powerset you have... just like AT powersets.)

4. Now that you know how your toon would be with each of the four Patron Powersets and without, decide which one you want.

5. If you choose no Patron Powerset for your main toon, do nothing. If you choose one of the Patron Powersets, then run your toon on live through that Patron's arc and then respec into those powers.

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This doesn't take into account the very high probability that either the powers themselves or the game mechanics will change in the future. Someone will inevitably be stuck with a less desireable pool (Whether it is made worse, or another is made better.) and will be unable to change it. This is bad. It's also clear that the devs don't want us to make an uninformed decision and suffer the consequences, because of their inclusion of the hard numbers. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee at all that these numbers will always be what they say at any given time, and a decision based on dated information is just as harmful as one based on no information. If you weren't locked into place and were free to change your mind with the game's changes, there wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem.

It also bears mentioning that Positron's reasoning to include hard numbers,
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There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one.

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could also be applied to the primary and secondary powersets very, very easily. You can't respec out of them. They're far more of an influence on the game than PPPs. Why is it fine for someone to make an uninformed decision about those? Especially since you don't actually see everything in the sets until 38? (Though it would likely take longer and involve several respecs. Not many people take all of their primary and secondary sets.)

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Oh yes EvilGeko, because your opinion is so not valid. We're always right.

Jeez, all we are saying is to get a better opinion is to wait until it is on Test because we dont know full details. Is that an evil thing to say?

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But whatever goes on test is IRRELEVANT. We know your choice of patron is permanent. So discussing that cannot be premature.

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But what if there's enough powers in each set so that almost anything is possible? The set is permanent, but what if there's enough powers in the set that are respeccable?

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That'd be interesting, and it's possible, but it's entirely hypothetical. Hard to discuss that scenario for very long seriously, in other words. The precedent of APPs would indicate that it's a hair less likely that PPPs will have a menu of 8-10 powers similar to all the other PPPs, but it is possible.

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Yeah, I know... was just trying to throw a few happier scenarios out there. But, there is some we don't know that could make this better, or worse. Hence the wait and see attitude.

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It's really not uncommon for villains to get empowered or enhanced by other villains in comics, though, especially villains of the footsoldier variety. The Grizzly gets his suit worked on by the Tinkerer. The Wrecker's crowbar was upgraded by Loki. Baron Mordo calls on Dormammu for extra power. It's pretty standard comic stuff.

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But it doesn't apply JUST to villains, as this game's making it out to be. Heroes are just as likely to be trained or enhanced by other heroes. As it stands now, based on the information given, villains must rely on others to reach their full potential while heroes can reach new levels of power by themselves. It's insulting, and I take it personally when someone tells me I'm not good enough by myself.

In comic-reality, each method of attaining more power is equally as valid, and it's simply unfair to restrict one side to only one way. Even in CoH, if one was inclined to do so, someone could make up a story about being taught their APP powers by someone else. VILLAINS ARE STUCK WITH THIS STORY.

I'm not even an RPer, and it bothers me. We need APPs. PPPs are fine and all, but it's a shortsighted and often undesireable option.

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It's really not uncommon for villains to get empowered or enhanced by other villains in comics, though, especially villains of the footsoldier variety. The Grizzly gets his suit worked on by the Tinkerer. The Wrecker's crowbar was upgraded by Loki. Baron Mordo calls on Dormammu for extra power. It's pretty standard comic stuff.

I can see how one'd run into concept trouble if one wrote oneself as the UNFLINCHING DESTROYER OF UNIVERSES AND EMPEROR OF EIGHT DIMENSIONS WHO BOWS TO NO MAN or whatnot, but it seems to me a good author works with the setting, not overrides it. If one writes a guy who'd never work for Arachnos in a game where everyone works for Arachnos, that's fine and one's decision to do, but I'm not sure it's Cryptic's problem. Same for patrons.

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This is exactly true. I've seen some truly inspired backgrounds that work *within* the confines of "low leve villain is busted out of the zig by Arachnos".

There's still quite a bit of wiggle room for your background and hitting 50 isn't the end of your story, it's just the end of the story co-written by you and Cryptic.

Still here, even after all this time!

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It also bears mentioning that Positron's reasoning to include hard numbers,

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There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one.

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could also be applied to the primary and secondary powersets very, very easily. You can't respec out of them. They're far more of an influence on the game than PPPs. Why is it fine for someone to make an uninformed decision about those? Especially since you don't actually see everything in the sets until 38? (Though it would likely take longer and involve several respecs. Not many people take all of their primary and secondary sets.)

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Quite. And most changes are going to happen either just before you get you PPPs or at 50, where it is going to have limited impact, even if they were going to really bork the balance of the powers (which I don't think they are. The APPs are very well balanced and I'd be happy with any of them, but I've stuck with the one I picked because it's what my characters *would* get.)

Some people will need absolute numbers and figuring out which twinkage is best, but each PPP (and patron) is supposedly relatively as good as the others.

Still here, even after all this time!

For me, this issue is one of personal choice, the freedom to explore the stories of my character in an cohesive and immersive universe. While I agree that a unified Story must provide the cohesion and, perhaps, animus for the good of the game as a whole, I prefer that the over-arcing elements of this story impact my characters' stories as an option, only.

It may well be that I will choose to make a character for the explict purpose of engaging the mainline Story of the game. In that case, I wouldn't at all mind being cajoled into irreversible choices: both in story and game play. Actually, I probably wouldn't see this as 'being forced' into anything.

But for MY characters I have designed for other purposes, I prefer to interact with the game story only as seems good to me, the storyteller of my own characters. This was the original premise of CoH---or, well, one of them, at least. The primary Story on the hero side was in the background, so to speak. You couldn't ignore it, of course, as evidence of it was all round. But you could write stories for your characters that minimized it or gave it a cameo role.

I'm not seeing the same options in CoV and this, along with other disappointments (rehashed powers, effects, ATs and so forth; failure to launch non-combat gameplay, the various costume issues and cheap marketing ploys) is leading me to consider that my time in Paragon City and environs may be coming to and end.

But, as I've said above: our discussion is moot. Cryptic only publically announces game features that are 100% guarranteed to be launched. Our window for arguing the cons of the PPPs is long past. Now, we must simply decide to love it or leave it.

Cal2

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It's really not uncommon for villains to get empowered or enhanced by other villains in comics, though, especially villains of the footsoldier variety. The Grizzly gets his suit worked on by the Tinkerer. The Wrecker's crowbar was upgraded by Loki. Baron Mordo calls on Dormammu for extra power. It's pretty standard comic stuff.

I can see how one'd run into concept trouble if one wrote oneself as the UNFLINCHING DESTROYER OF UNIVERSES AND EMPEROR OF EIGHT DIMENSIONS WHO BOWS TO NO MAN or whatnot, but it seems to me a good author works with the setting, not overrides it. If one writes a guy who'd never work for Arachnos in a game where everyone works for Arachnos, that's fine and one's decision to do, but I'm not sure it's Cryptic's problem. Same for patrons.

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Of course, since we already only get powers by being trained by Arachnos and get more powerful by being given enhancements by arachnos, and by arachnos allowiung us to have bases and equipment, you could say theres already too much of that in the game.

I think its kind of a shame that the Devs decided to make City of Mercenaries who work for Arachnos, rather than city of Villains, but I guess it was their choice to make.