[ QUOTE ]
Now we have even more information from a dev, though it's now across to the Euro boards, and didn't sound certain.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please remember, Bridger is a mod like CuppaJo, not a dev. The devs could have changed things since they told the mods anything. Course, they could change things since they tell us too.
Maybe it's just me, but some powers have 'felt' different than they 'sound' when reading about them, which is why I hang on to respecs and use the test server to try a new build out.
Anyway, maybe I'm rambling, but at this point, I want i7 on test already so that we can move past 'if'.
[ QUOTE ]
There's still quite a bit of wiggle room for your background and hitting 50 isn't the end of your story, it's just the end of the story co-written by you and Cryptic.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I don't understand why people think that isn't a hard pill to swallow.
Every single one of my characters has a backstory in their description, and every single one of them is tied strongly to the universe. I don't have any S`hiar princesses or rogue Widlcats operatives or any Kryptonians in my stable of characters. Those that mention anything specific to the setting (about 1/2) are all tied to actions by Crey or the 5th Column or Arachnos or someone easily recognizable.
But who they are, and what they did after, is all their own.
I already have problems with how totally lackey we seem in CoV. We're super-powered enforcers for hire, not supervillains in the classic sense. Supervillains are, stereotypically, self-directed.
Heroes suffer from some of the same problems, as they never seem to solve any problems themselves except to exert brute force on behalf of their contacts. But some room is left to the imagination because the heroes (with the exception of Kehldians) have utterly no restricitions on their origins. None. Nada. Zip. It's left completely open. And so is their future. Nothing ties their allegience to anyone else. And I love that.
Concequences in power choice is a poor place to add concequence. If I want concequences I want it to be that I'm randomly ambushed by Black Widows for ticking off Ghost Widow, or by Coralax for joining with Mako. I want it to be environmental, not endemic within my character's design. I don't want it to warp my character in some way I didn't understand. That makes a good story, sure. But I'm not forced to play the characters I read about in comics. My characters are just that. Their mine. Let me determine more of their fate.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
Please remember, Bridger is a mod like CuppaJo, not a dev. The devs could have changed things since they told the mods anything. Course, they could change things since they tell us too.
[/ QUOTE ]
I understand that perfectly. I was using "dev" in the loose sense we tend to use here. I have modified my post to say "redname", to reduce confusion.
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's just me, but some powers have 'felt' different than they 'sound' when reading about them, which is why I hang on to respecs and use the test server to try a new build out.
[/ QUOTE ]
So do I. In fact, I think that such testing is more important and more relevant than the most exacting lists of numbers the devs could ever give us on the powers. I need to experience exactly how the powers synergize with my existing powers before I am sure I want to actually go with them.
And again, I have to point out that I find the suggestion that I have to basically skip taking any PPPs until I'm 47 to know what the 4th tier power really works like totally unacceptable.
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, maybe I'm rambling, but at this point, I want i7 on test already so that we can move past 'if'.
[/ QUOTE ]
I truly can't see what "if" we're discussing in the thread that's desirable to test in that way.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
I truly can't see what "if" we're discussing in the thread that's desirable to test in that way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe if wasn't the best word... We're going on and on about a couple of posts from Positron and Bridger but no working experience of it all. That's all I meant.
But I do agree with the not taking a PPP until 47 as unacceptable. I feel like the first character I played was more of a practice run than a main, if that makes any sense.
[ QUOTE ]
You know, that's all well and good, and certainly possible. However, you DO realize that it means going from 41-49 without taking a single new power? Then at 49, you can copy to Test, and see which powers you would have enjoyed on those previous levels, but now are pretty much just useless tchotchke (except for that level...yay)?
[/ QUOTE ]
My hopeful assumption is that the PPP works like this:
1. Choose a Patron trial (one of four).
2. Get the badge from completing the arc.
3. Badge unlocks that Patron's PPP.
4. Powers from the PPP are added, or not, just like the epic PPs, i.e., as you train up, you can take them if you're high enough level and have the right prerequisites.
And so, even at level 49, after taking all my regular powers, I can still do a Patron trial and unlock that PPP. I do this (each trial) on Test four times (one for each Patron) and then respec into the PPP (in place of my ordinary powers). If I dig Ghost Widow, in the end, e.g., then I'll do her trial on Live and then respec into her PPPs.
The most shaky assumption here, as you've mentioned, is that the Patron trial may be outleveled at 45. I hope not. But... <looking around at certain individuals in this thread> I'm not going to whine and scream 'doom,' until I know for sure.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
[ QUOTE ]
I had suggested to the developers, via a PM to CuppaJo, that the developers have Epic Power Pools AND Patron Power Pools for both heroes and villains. I suggested that they keep the Patron Powers as is, but make the Epic Powers lesser than the Patron Powers but greater than the standard Power Pool powers.
So this would bring Epics to the villains, and give the heroes Patron Powers from Statesman and company (unless Statesman doesn't give the option, as Lord Recluse isn't currently included in the list of available patrons).
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm currently happy with the idea for the patron power Pools, but I'd still like to see Epic power Pools for the villains, and Patron Powers for the heroes. My idea of lowering the stats a fraction for the Epics and keeping the Patron powers as the more powerful abilities would allow people the ir flexibility with the Epics, but also make the more powerful patron abilities desirable as well. I'm just not sure by how much would one want to diminish the Epics in comparison to their current levels and the levels of the Patron powers.
[ QUOTE ]
I already have problems with how totally lackey we seem in CoV. We're super-powered enforcers for hire, not supervillains in the classic sense. Supervillains are, stereotypically, self-directed.
[/ QUOTE ]
I just wanted to say that I don't think this is accurate. The comic world is rife with villains who work for hire or work for other villains. For every Red Skull, there's a Crossbones. For every Supreme Intelligence, there's a Ronan the Accuser. For every Attuma, there's a Tyrak. For every MODOK, there's a Super-Adaptoid. I mean, there's Batroc the [censored] Leaper. 
Lots of villains are monomanical, egomaniacal, megalomaniacal, whateveromaniacal enough that they can't work for or with other villains. Plenty more work habitually in such arrangements, like the Super-Skrull or the Serpent Society or the Hellfire Club. Even the ones who are normally loners can find accommodation to work with or for other villains when necessity requires and/or they can get something out of it, like the recently re-established Secret Society of Super-Villains or the demon Neron. Even Loki played the role of the humbly obsequious servant to the assembled villains of the Acts of Vengeance. It was a role that he used to secretly advance his own plan and manipulate events, too, so he did it because it was useful... but he still did it.
It would next to impossible to write, for instance, that Doctor Doom in particular serves a patron. It would be simple to write that Doctor Doom was allowing a self-styled patron to believe he had the upper hand while Doom made arrangements to end up with the power in one hand and the patron's head in the other.
To add on to Click Beetle...
In CoH and CoV, you aint Superman. You aint Wolverine. You aint Captain America. You aint Doctor Doom. You aint Lex Luther.
You're Joe Scrub Hero/Villain. You're in a whole freaking CITY of heroes and villains. You're just not that special.
Well, except me, of course.
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
You're Joe Scrub Hero/Villain. You're in a whole freaking CITY of heroes and villains. You're just not that special.
That's the problem.
[ QUOTE ]
2) Don't let the PCs play "second fiddle" to NPCs:
Second only to having their characters taken prisoner, players hate having their characters play "second fiddle" to NPCs -- or even worse, having NPCs rescue them when they're in trouble. The PCs are the focus of the story and the campaign; they shouldn't be directly overshadowed by NPCs. This is not to say the PCs have to be the most powerful characters in the world. You can have NPCs more powerful than the PCs, even much more powerful. Such NPCs can act as sources of information for the PCs, or as inspiration to show them what they're capable of becoming. Just don't rub the PCs' noses in their inferiority, or have the NPCs outdo them at every turn. Keep the use of NPCs who are more powerful than the PCs to a minimum.
[/ QUOTE ]
-- Champions, 5th Edition, #2 on the list of ways to ruin your campaign
It's certainly true that the demands of an MMO differ from those of a tabletop RPG campaign. It's a lot harder to make thousands of players the center of the story than just the six guys across the table.
And yet, CoH did a fair job of that, at least up until now. The signature characters were kept out of the spotlight. Their main function has been to delegate tasks to the PCs. You actually get to save Statesman at one point. Your Contacts are all people who need your help. No individual player is the center of the story, but the players in the aggregate sense are -- they are the new generation of heroes society is depending upon in the wake of the Rikti War.
CoV is a different story. Villain Contacts are employers -- a completely different dynamic. The newspaper offers nothing but petty thefts and turf wars against other villain groups. (Mayhem Missions may be a step in the right direction here.) You only get to "save" Ghost Widow from an inconvenience. Patron Powers and the content associated with them are going to have the signature villains cast a very long shadow over the PCs. Villain PCs are much more subordinate to the narrative than hero PCs already, and can expect to be more so in I7.
Things are not really moving in the right direction here. The monthly comic was changed from centering on characters the players could identify with (poorly written though they were) to the signature heroes. Sidekicks of the signature characters were accorded AV status, only rescinded after an outcry. The new content appears to be largely geared towards impressing upon the players that their characters are bit players. If this is the shape of things to come, the players have every right to be concerned, and they should start expressing it now.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
[ QUOTE ]
You're Joe Scrub Hero/Villain. You're in a whole freaking CITY of heroes and villains. You're just not that special.
That's the problem.
[ QUOTE ]
2) Don't let the PCs play "second fiddle" to NPCs:
Second only to having their characters taken prisoner, players hate having their characters play "second fiddle" to NPCs -- or even worse, having NPCs rescue them when they're in trouble. The PCs are the focus of the story and the campaign; they shouldn't be directly overshadowed by NPCs. This is not to say the PCs have to be the most powerful characters in the world. You can have NPCs more powerful than the PCs, even much more powerful. Such NPCs can act as sources of information for the PCs, or as inspiration to show them what they're capable of becoming. Just don't rub the PCs' noses in their inferiority, or have the NPCs outdo them at every turn. Keep the use of NPCs who are more powerful than the PCs to a minimum.
[/ QUOTE ]
-- Champions, 5th Edition, #2 on the list of ways to ruin your campaign
It's certainly true that the demands of an MMO differ from those of a tabletop RPG campaign. It's a lot harder to make thousands of players the center of the story than just the six guys across the table.
And yet, CoH did a fair job of that, at least up until now. The signature characters were kept out of the spotlight. Their main function has been to delegate tasks to the PCs. You actually get to save Statesman at one point. Your Contacts are all people who need your help. No individual player is the center of the story, but the players in the aggregate sense are -- they are the new generation of heroes society is depending upon in the wake of the Rikti War.
CoV is a different story. Villain Contacts are employers -- a completely different dynamic. The newspaper offers nothing but petty thefts and turf wars against other villain groups. (Mayhem Missions may be a step in the right direction here.) You only get to "save" Ghost Widow from an inconvenience. Patron Powers and the content associated with them are going to have the signature villains cast a very long shadow over the PCs. Villain PCs are much more subordinate to the narrative than hero PCs already, and can expect to be more so in I7.
Things are not really moving in the right direction here. The monthly comic was changed from centering on characters the players could identify with (poorly written though they were) to the signature heroes. Sidekicks of the signature characters were accorded AV status, only rescinded after an outcry. The new content appears to be largely geared towards impressing upon the players that their characters are bit players. If this is the shape of things to come, the players have every right to be concerned, and they should start expressing it now.
[/ QUOTE ]
QFTAE
Exactly. This is what I've been trying to say but my annoyance got in the way of my writing abilities, yet again *sigh* 
I need a destress session somewhere heh.
Cal2
[ QUOTE ]
You're Joe Scrub Hero/Villain. You're in a whole freaking CITY of heroes and villains. You're just not that special.
That's the problem.
[ QUOTE ]
2) Don't let the PCs play "second fiddle" to NPCs:
Second only to having their characters taken prisoner, players hate having their characters play "second fiddle" to NPCs -- or even worse, having NPCs rescue them when they're in trouble. The PCs are the focus of the story and the campaign; they shouldn't be directly overshadowed by NPCs. This is not to say the PCs have to be the most powerful characters in the world. You can have NPCs more powerful than the PCs, even much more powerful. Such NPCs can act as sources of information for the PCs, or as inspiration to show them what they're capable of becoming. Just don't rub the PCs' noses in their inferiority, or have the NPCs outdo them at every turn. Keep the use of NPCs who are more powerful than the PCs to a minimum.
[/ QUOTE ]
-- Champions, 5th Edition, #2 on the list of ways to ruin your campaign
It's certainly true that the demands of an MMO differ from those of a tabletop RPG campaign. It's a lot harder to make thousands of players the center of the story than just the six guys across the table.
And yet, CoH did a fair job of that, at least up until now. The signature characters were kept out of the spotlight. Their main function has been to delegate tasks to the PCs. You actually get to save Statesman at one point. Your Contacts are all people who need your help. No individual player is the center of the story, but the players in the aggregate sense are -- they are the new generation of heroes society is depending upon in the wake of the Rikti War.
CoV is a different story. Villain Contacts are employers -- a completely different dynamic. The newspaper offers nothing but petty thefts and turf wars against other villain groups. (Mayhem Missions may be a step in the right direction here.) You only get to "save" Ghost Widow from an inconvenience. Patron Powers and the content associated with them are going to have the signature villains cast a very long shadow over the PCs. Villain PCs are much more subordinate to the narrative than hero PCs already, and can expect to be more so in I7.
Things are not really moving in the right direction here. The monthly comic was changed from centering on characters the players could identify with (poorly written though they were) to the signature heroes. Sidekicks of the signature characters were accorded AV status, only rescinded after an outcry. The new content appears to be largely geared towards impressing upon the players that their characters are bit players. If this is the shape of things to come, the players have every right to be concerned, and they should start expressing it now.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, you started out as a lowly lackey working up into epic status.
It's a small steps up there, it's not "I am Victor Von Doom!" right off the bat.
Technically, Doom started out as a lowly Gypsy and was a super-villain for *years* before he attempted to take his revenge against Reed Richards as a epic arch-villain.
We are just playing through that. I might have worked my way up the lacky chain, but that's because my characters started out as super-powered persons that were thrown in jail and had to be broken out. The guys who broke me out say I might be a destined one?
Hmm. Maybe I am. Time to show the world true villainy... well as soon as I steal/bribe/make my powers into a true world class threat that can beat down Statesman!
Still here, even after all this time!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now we have even more information from a dev, though it's now across to the Euro boards, and didn't sound certain.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please remember, Bridger is a mod like CuppaJo, not a dev. The devs could have changed things since they told the mods anything. Course, they could change things since they tell us too.
Maybe it's just me, but some powers have 'felt' different than they 'sound' when reading about them, which is why I hang on to respecs and use the test server to try a new build out.
Anyway, maybe I'm rambling, but at this point, I want i7 on test already so that we can move past 'if'.
[/ QUOTE ]
All true, including the rambling - badump-ching! 
[ QUOTE ]
A bit off topic, here, but some things I was contemplating:
1) I wonder if this design decision was influenced in any way by the possibility of a "Legend's System" or post lvl 50 content?
2) I'm curious to see if this same design is applied to heroes when/if they receive a "Legend's System"?
Just wanted to spit that out.....feel free to return to the normal discussion 
[/ QUOTE ]
When i heard of patron powers i was under the impression that heroes would be receiving something close to/along the lines of what villains were getting and that villains would be getting epic powers down the line as well.
So kinda like both parties get epic power pools and both parties also get patrons/legends that they are locked in permanently.
Lanori-Pher (50 Claw/regen)
Crimson Sin (50 Fire/FF)
Jurius (50 Fire/Energy)
Green Sun (50 Rad/Dark)
Pher-Lanori (50 Warshade)
December Ice (32 Ice/Device)
all Infinity
Also off topic,I heard a while back that Masterminds were getting some kind of boost to make them better in PvE and PvP.Has anyone heard anything at all about this?
Whiniest thread ever..
Take a dash of Illuminati, add a sprinkle of Mafia and just a touch of Omnipresnce and a healthy helping of mob violence...
Pinnacle @Valmith
MOVE.... ALONG....
[ QUOTE ]
Whiniest thread ever..
[/ QUOTE ]
Jesus, hell yes.
I finially read this thread last night, gave up after reading less then half of it.
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
I think making the patron choice permanent is a bad idea. Even if we take a character to test, try things out, and make a somewhat-informed decision, there's no guarantee that the devs won't change/re-balance the powers at later date. If I choose a patron for specific power-related reasons, and those powers later get nerfed, I'll feel that I wasted my choice. Not much I can do about it at that point, except spew bitter rants on the forums, but still.
Here's a question.
I have characters with the Clan of the Black Scorpion Badge, back when the Strike Forces were all giving out bugged badges.
Am I screwed/forced to take Black Scorpion now?
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
[ QUOTE ]
Technically, Doom started out as a lowly Gypsy and was a super-villain for *years* before he attempted to take his revenge against Reed Richards as a epic arch-villain.
We are just playing through that. I might have worked my way up the lacky chain, but that's because my characters started out as super-powered persons that were thrown in jail and had to be broken out. The guys who broke me out say I might be a destined one?
[/ QUOTE ]
And what I fail to see is how this is us working towards that. This feels to me like us working from enforcer to permenant sidekick. From freelance thug to well-known permenant employee.
We aren't working up to Doctor Doom, or even like many members of the Legion of Doom or Brotherhood of Mutants - by and large both are working associations of persons who can act as loners. (Note that I do not object to the notion of villains working together. That's what a villain SG is. What I object to constant servitude.) We don't seem to be going there. We seem to be going for a small-scale version of being the Heralds of Galactus. Yeah, that would be pretty kickass, but Galactus always gets the top billing.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whiniest thread ever..
[/ QUOTE ]
Jesus, hell yes.
I finially read this thread last night, gave up after reading less then half of it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then kindly shut the hell up, since all you seem to have time to comment on is the stupid tripe and are happily ignoring anything here worth paying attention to.
You might stop to consider that a post like yours and the one you responded to are just another form of whining.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
To add on to Click Beetle...
In CoH and CoV, you aint Superman. You aint Wolverine. You aint Captain America. You aint Doctor Doom. You aint Lex Luther.
You're Joe Scrub Hero/Villain. You're in a whole freaking CITY of heroes and villains. You're just not that special.
Well, except me, of course.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's true up to around level 35. After that, in CoH your character starts dealing with grave threats to the City, the world and the multiverse. In that way it is much superior to CoV. Saving [Censored] because I'm paid doesn't do much to make me feel like a villain.
The 40s in CoH and the final arcs of 35-40 are near perfection. You truly feel heroic in every sense of the word. You don't play second fiddle to Ms. Liberty, you become her equal. As she told me when I dinged 50, she didn't have anything more to teach. Of course AV/Hero status is a mechanic intended to create challenging content, but many players by level 50 are strong, powerful characters and should be treated like it.
In City of Villains, we're being relegated to be lackeys of the lackeys. How fun.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To add on to Click Beetle...
In CoH and CoV, you aint Superman. You aint Wolverine. You aint Captain America. You aint Doctor Doom. You aint Lex Luther.
You're Joe Scrub Hero/Villain. You're in a whole freaking CITY of heroes and villains. You're just not that special.
Well, except me, of course.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's true up to around level 35. After that, in CoH your character starts dealing with grave threats to the City, the world and the multiverse. In that way it is much superior to CoV. Saving [Censored] because I'm paid doesn't do much to make me feel like a villain.
The 40s in CoH and the final arcs of 35-40 are near perfection. You truly feel heroic in every sense of the word. You don't play second fiddle to Ms. Liberty, you become her equal. As she told me when I dinged 50, she didn't have anything more to teach. Of course AV/Hero status is a mechanic intended to create challenging content, but many players by level 50 are strong, powerful characters and should be treated like it.
In City of Villains, we're being relegated to be lackeys of the lackeys. How fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
Considering we haven't played through the 40+ game and mayhem missions, this seems to be a disservice to the developers without seeing the upper end content.
I somehow doubt we are "just" flunkies up at the high end. Heck, we've had that whole destined thing going on since *level 1*.
Still here, even after all this time!
[ QUOTE ]
Considering we haven't played through the 40+ game and mayhem missions, this seems to be a disservice to the developers without seeing the upper end content.
I somehow doubt we are "just" flunkies up at the high end. Heck, we've had that whole destined thing going on since *level 1*.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, but here's the rub! "No one has to do Patron Arcs."
Sure, we might get stories that are the villainous equivalent of what we get in CoH's 40+ game. We might feel truly super and villainous, and feel equivalent to any of the named villains.
But if we want the equivalent of EPPs we have to be patronized. Oh, and the choice is permanent.
Hero: Hit 41, choose an EPP and carry on. Don't like it later? Respec.
Villain: Hit 41, need to run a story arc, become permanently associated with one of Recluse's subordinates, and never be able to change the choice.
And I'll tell you, I'll be truly pissed if they come and add an equivalent restriction to the heroes. That is not the solution I am looking for.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Considering we haven't played through the 40+ game and mayhem missions, this seems to be a disservice to the developers without seeing the upper end content.
I somehow doubt we are "just" flunkies up at the high end. Heck, we've had that whole destined thing going on since *level 1*.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, but here's the rub! "No one has to do Patron Arcs."
Sure, we might get stories that are the villainous equivalent of what we get in CoH's 40+ game. We might feel truly super and villainous, and feel equivalent to any of the named villains.
But if we want the equivalent of EPPs we have to be patronized. Oh, and the choice is permanent.
Hero: Hit 41, choose an EPP and carry on. Don't like it later? Respec.
Villain: Hit 41, need to run a story arc, become permanently associated with one of Recluse's subordinates, and never be able to change the choice.
And I'll tell you, I'll be truly pissed if they come and add an equivalent restriction to the heroes. That is not the solution I am looking for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Um, Uberguy?
Exactly what did that have to do with what I was responding to?
Still here, even after all this time!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does this mean that each patron has five seperate pools within it, one for each AT, with four powers in each AT specific set? So, the patron isn't changable, but the powers within are?
[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I believe it is.What I thik Positron meant was that you just couldn't choose another Patron after you have chosen one but that you could change the powers in the patrons set for your AT.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please tell me that people don't think this ameliorates the concern about the permenant choice.
Now we have even more information from a redname, though it's now across to the Euro boards, and didn't sound certain.
1) Each patron will offer a powerset per AT.
2) Each poweset will have four powers in it.
3) The choice of patron and the set associated with them is permenant, though the powers within it are not.
If this information is all correct, then parts one an two are functionally no different than how heroes have it. Part three is the single, glaring difference.
And as a player I despise it.
If you look in my sig, I have three heroes within 2 levels of 50. All three are Pre I2 (two are pre I1). I could have had a 50 ages ago. One reason I do not is that Kheldians hold no interest for me. Why? There are several reasons.
*) In a game touted from on high for its character creator's incredible variety, I am would look exactly like every other Kheldian a large fraction of the time. (Admittedly, a few other sets such as Dark and Stone Armor have this problem, though auras and other things can help.)
*) My Origin (with a capital O - the thing that determines what enhancements I can use) is fixed.
*) There is a canon background for what Kheldians are.
All of those things are contrary to the notion of how we can create all the rest of our heroes. We choose their Origin, their backstory, and their appearance almost completely. The story-bound nature of the Kheldians repels me.
I have much the same problem with the PPPs, except I am more disgusted with it. I can choose not to play a Kheldian, but now to make a comparable choice for my villains, I have to choose not to expand their powers? People complain about how "unepic" the EPPs are, but I have never agreed with much of the complaint. They add a great deal to every Hero of mine that has them.
So if I don't want this forced content affiliation, I get to choose to skip content and avoid a useful power progression for my characters? How can this be considered superior by anyone? I can understand someone not feeling this is important to them but I cannot understand someone telling me this should not matter to me.
And note that in the above I didn't even touch on the matter of "do I like these powers?" To even suggest that we should try various patron sets out on test is insulting. That's a massive expendature of time, and its one that players of heroes need not do. Why should villains be different?
In my opinion, the test server is completely, totally and mind-bogglingly irrelevant. We don't need the test server to understand the limitations this situation would represent. All the test server will do is tell us, once and for all, which of this is speculation or not. I for one, have no intention of waiting until that late stage of voiceing my concerns. If my arguments are based on faulty information then all the Devs have to do is tell us that now. Until then I will remain provisionally disappointed and concerned.
Do not make the PPP choice permenant. I don't care if it delays them. I don't want them if they work the way outlined above.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA