but how exactly will these buffs work ( this goes for invnetions as well) ? We run to our base and get the buff or invention and we can use it anywhere til it runs out, or are we limited to using it while in the sg base or in sg mode?
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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And the Devs won't have thought of this because.....?
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...because of past evidence.
They never thought that characters would have perma-MoG. They never thought that griefers would TP others into towers and trap them. They never thought that players would slot 1 acc and 5 dmg SO's into an attack power. They never thought that anyone would farm kracken in the sewer trial. They never thought that people with pre-i2 characters would complain about the impossibility of them getting the Isolator badge. They never thought anyone would level up insanely fast on Winter Lords (the XP pinatas). They never thought that anyone would farm the Hamidon for +50/+50 enhancements day after day after day. They never thought that anyone would use the wolf mission for PLing, or after that the "dead scanner" mission, or after that the "Dreck" mission....
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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If they don't require their own rooms however, there is simply no reason you couldn't fit all of them into a base on the 8x8 plot. It may require some redecorating... But that would be about it.
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Assuming they set up another "giant wad of free prestige on test server" situation when I7 drops, this will be easy to test, at least. It'll probably be the single easiest aspect of all this to test, since it's binary. Throw together a "2x2 maze" base. Does everything fit? Y/N. If we get the prestige boost, I'll be taking a long lunch break the day I7 drops on test. A loooong lunch break...
@Mindshadow
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They never thought that characters would have perma-MoG. They never thought that griefers would TP others into towers and trap them. They never thought that players would slot 1 acc and 5 dmg SO's into an attack power. They never thought that anyone would farm kracken in the sewer trial. They never thought that people with pre-i2 characters would complain about the impossibility of them getting the Isolator badge. They never thought anyone would level up insanely fast on Winter Lords (the XP pinatas). They never thought that anyone would farm the Hamidon for +50/+50 enhancements day after day after day. They never thought that anyone would use the wolf mission for PLing, or after that the "dead scanner" mission, or after that the "Dreck" mission....
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But this is nothing LIKE that. This is about how much something costs, not about unconventional uses for things they've put in. And no way on earth is something accidentally going to cost more than they intended it to.
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Assuming they set up another "giant wad of free prestige on test server"
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I haven't tried it myself lately... But don't you still get a huge chunk of prestige when making a SG on the test server?
Just so i'm clear...
Empowerment stations give a 15 min buff for the price of some peices of salvage.
The buffs are realy specific
so it might be 2 e-chips + 3 Clockwork engines = +20% Smashing res
They have a smaller cost then most items(sounds like 4-5k)
They run on their own power(don't cost any power and maybe no control)
They arn't the invention system. That will come later.
I miss anything?
I don't know about you guys, but I finish most of my missions in less than 15 minutes. 15 minutes is even plenty of time to fight an AV. If you're taking any longer than you will probably never win (you're not overcoming the regen enough).
I can see it being really useful when you're on a large team and you get one of those carnie maps where all of the spawns are practically touching so even pulling a single minion will often cause three spawns to come after you. There's nothing like trying to fight 12 Master Ills at once.
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And no way on earth is something accidentally going to cost more than they intended it to.
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Oh, ****, Murphy's law just got invoked.
We're doomed! DooOOoooOOOooomed!
@Mindshadow
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I miss anything?
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That sounds like everything to me.
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The devs accept they make mistakes, why can't everyone?
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Making mistakes is one thing; accidentally failing to design something around small SGs when that's what you've set out to do is another thing altogether. I believe the Devs are fallible, but I don't believe they're idiots.
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The devs did not intend:
1. For people to slot 1 acc; 5 damage. Although anyone with a decent understanding of math would have realized that was optimal.
2. For people to use Instant Healing constantly. Although anyone could see the easy path of taking Stamina.
I could go on, but the point is, the devs might INTEND for their system to benefit small SGs, but their system could very well do nothing for small SGs, not because of incompetence or malice, but simply because they made a mistake.
Your all-caps post was unreasonable and unfair. The devs have basically had to redesign multiple systems since launch because of design mistakes. It's is not unreasonable to consider the possibility that they will make mistakes in this context. I think your post was founded in frustration because it is out of character for you, but nevertheless it was not a fair response to the person you quoted.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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The devs accept they make mistakes, why can't everyone?
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Making mistakes is one thing; accidentally failing to design something around small SGs when that's what you've set out to do is another thing altogether. I believe the Devs are fallible, but I don't believe they're idiots.
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The devs did not intend:
1. For people to slot 1 acc; 5 damage. Although anyone with a decent understanding of math would have realized that was optimal.
2. For people to use Instant Healing constantly. Although anyone could see the easy path of taking Stamina.
I could go on, but the point is, the devs might INTEND for their system to benefit small SGs, but their system could very well do nothing for small SGs, not because of incompetence or malice, but simply because they made a mistake.
Your all-caps post was unreasonable and unfair. The devs have basically had to redesign multiple systems since launch because of design mistakes. It's is not unreasonable to consider the possibility that they will make mistakes in this context. I think your post was founded in frustration because it is out of character for you, but nevertheless it was not a fair response to the person you quoted.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I don't know about you guys, but I finish most of my missions in less than 15 minutes. 15 minutes is even plenty of time to fight an AV. If you're taking any longer than you will probably never win (you're not overcoming the regen enough).
I can see it being really useful when you're on a large team and you get one of those carnie maps where all of the spawns are practically touching so even pulling a single minion will often cause three spawns to come after you. There's nothing like trying to fight 12 Master Ills at once.
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Well then if you are finishing missions in 15 minutes or less then you probably dont need the SG base buffs since obviously you mow through them like the proverbial bat out of hell. But then you are probably thinking about just the mission itself instead of say... travel time to get to sg base, load up the salvage, select buff, get from sg base to mission, zone into mission, and actually getting to the fight you wanted the buff for in the first place. And I know or dang sure NO mm could finish anything other than a fed ex mission in anything less than 20, effective pet set up is a lil too long.
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I could go on, but the point is, the devs might INTEND for their system to benefit small SGs, but their system could very well do nothing for small SGs, not because of incompetence or malice, but simply because they made a mistake.
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And, as I keep repeating, it's unfeasible that they could accidentally make these new features unaffordable for small SGs, which is what people seem to be fretting about. The suggestion that they could somehow have overlooked the cost of the room, or of the upkeep, is silly.
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I could go on, but the point is, the devs might INTEND for their system to benefit small SGs, but their system could very well do nothing for small SGs, not because of incompetence or malice, but simply because they made a mistake.
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And, as I keep repeating, it's unfeasible that they could accidentally make these new features unaffordable for small SGs, which is what people seem to be fretting about. The suggestion that they could somehow have overlooked the cost of the room, or of the upkeep, is silly.
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I don't know about that. The devs don't seem to have a good idea about costing. Almost nothing in this game has a reasonable cost structure IMO. I could easily see the devs getting the prices wrong since they're trying to balance affordability and their other goals of making bases "hardcore" content.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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So it's like those destroyable lab stations in the lab maps? The ones that give you a random buff when they're destroyed, and they last for like 3-5 minutes or something like that? Awesome!
Those were always helpful buffs! 
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O yea was real fun when i had 4 -end recoverys on me. Ugh. ! attack pop 2 cabs. attack again pop 2 cabs.
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The devs accept they make mistakes, why can't everyone?
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Making mistakes is one thing; accidentally failing to design something around small SGs when that's what you've set out to do is another thing altogether. I believe the Devs are fallible, but I don't believe they're idiots.
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This argument only works if you assume that any possible design mistake made to help small SGs is can only be caused by or is due to idiocy. Evil Geko and Red Zero have pointed out countless times that there is a logical possibility (along with history and player perspective) that the devs can and have made mistakes that were bad design implementations that had negative impact on players, none of which were caused by idiocy but in fact were made by very smart and reasonable people.
You whole rant is one long big restatement of: Because Positron said it's designed for smaller SGs, it will absolutely be perfect or close to it for solving the issue.
My main question is with the Storage Items.
Will they be open to anyone or will there be permissions set?
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This argument only works if you assume that any possible design mistake made to help small SGs is can only be caused by or is due to idiocy.
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I am not talking about any potential design mistake other than that concerning cost. I am not talking about utility or helpfulness at all.
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You whole rant is one long big restatement of: Because Positron said it's designed for smaller SGs, it will absolutely be perfect or close to it for solving the issue.
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No. My rant is simply: if Positron says these things are designed to be easily affordable for small SGs, it's ridiculous to come up with ways in which Positron might be wrong, such as overlooking the room size or the upkeep, both of which have been seriously suggested here.
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Empowerment stations are instant buffs. You are bathed in radiation/magic/etc. on the spot and get a bonus to your travel speed/lethal resistance/attack speed/endurance recovery/knockback protection/whatever you need at the time, right then and there.
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Hmm... Doesn't this kinda sorta invalidate the need for Acrobatics? One buff to replace an entire 3rd tier Pool Power? Is there a buff that gives me Whirlwind?
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Empowerment stations are instant buffs. You are bathed in radiation/magic/etc. on the spot and get a bonus to your travel speed/lethal resistance/attack speed/endurance recovery/knockback protection/whatever you need at the time, right then and there.
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Hmm... Doesn't this kinda sorta invalidate the need for Acrobatics? One buff to replace an entire 3rd tier Pool Power? Is there a buff that gives me Whirlwind?
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Are you going to go back to your base every 15 minutes to get another buff just so acrobatics can be "invalidated"? Don't be silly.
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
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Empowerment stations are instant buffs. You are bathed in radiation/magic/etc. on the spot and get a bonus to your travel speed/lethal resistance/attack speed/endurance recovery/knockback protection/whatever you need at the time, right then and there.
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Hmm... Doesn't this kinda sorta invalidate the need for Acrobatics?
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Yes, it does - for all of fifteen minutes, assuming you have the right kind of salvage to make it.
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And, as I keep repeating, it's unfeasible that they could accidentally make these new features unaffordable for small SGs, which is what people seem to be fretting about. The suggestion that they could somehow have overlooked the cost of the room, or of the upkeep, is silly.
[/ QUOTE ]The problem is you are using subjective terms like "small SGs" and "unaffordable." Is 105K unaffordable to a small SG? How about 250k? How many day/weeks/months do the developers want a SG of 2/5/10 regularly playing members to have to work before they can afford such items? There are a lot of variables, devil in the details if you will, that a number of players are concerned in which the developers might have differing opinions. It is right and proper to express our concerns and expectations. It is also reasonable, not silly, to look at past history to determine future performance.
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It is right and proper to express our concerns and expectations. It is also reasonable, not silly, to look at past history to determine future performance.
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You will feel differently when you accept Positron as your savior.
@Mindshadow
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The problem is you are using subjective terms like "small SGs" and "unaffordable."
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So are the Devs. The problem, in a nutshell, is that some people don't think they really mean it.
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I have an RP-based SG with about 18-20 members in it.
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How many hours a week do you guys play on avg? My SG is smaller then that, and we upgraded our plot not long ago.
Sence CoV launched, we've bulit a base, with 3 telepads, rez chamber, 3 work stations, and a 3x3 RP room, on a 12x8 plot. We currently have something like 350k in the bank...
So if you're gaining prestige so slowly it takes you months to put in a room, you're either doing something wrong, or playing very little, fair has nothing to do with it. Lots of groups have put together nice bases, with a lot less players then you.