updated my previous post but I saw it was a few pages back..
PvE minions grant 214 HPs, Bosses gave 428.
A friendly stalker stood still long enough for me to kill and then Stygianed Returned and she gave me 291. Gonna have to go find a PvE Lt to compare.. Belah.. as if a warshade didnt have enough problems in PvP with needing corpses.
I'm sorry, but when you try to make a point by equating two things that aren't equal, I have to call you on it. Tar patch != trip mines. There. That's it.
As for nonsensical... you're trying as hard as you can to say that AS SHOULD have a range check because people can be slowed, and stalkers should have to team. Very true. People can be slowed, stalkers should team. But so should you! When you say something like 'slows from corruptors and doms are brutal and can't be overcome by quickness' it sounds very blatantly like you're solo! Well, GET A TEAM. Get speed boosted! All of a sudden those slows aren't that important. (Not to mention that superjump, one of the most common travel powers in pvp heavily negates slows.)
What I see from your posting is that you have a profound lack of understanding of how pvp works, of how ATs synergize and how the balance lies. Is there a problem in pvp? I believe so, others disagree. But most of us will agree it has nothing to do with your angry ranting.
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Wait a second. You have someone STANDING AROUND after being ASd and placated long enough for AS to recharge?
[/ QUOTE ] Maybe you're coming late to show punchy.... but you dont' have to be stationary to get AS'd Hello?!!!? What do you think this thread is about.
What's remarkedly stupid is the idea that any time you get AS'd, you're expected to run for your life. yeah...great model for PvP.
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but you shouldn't be getting kills JUST with AS vs. anything else. Unless they're AFK or colossally stupid.
[/ QUOTE ] Maybe you out to try it on the hero side. Out of like 100 stalker deaths...2 have been caused by anything other than AS. And I am excluding AS+ET from EM as that is essentially a one-shot for anyone but the hyper vigiliant /regen.
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When you claim theydon't you come off as ignorant to actual gameplay facts and extremely opinionated.
[/ QUOTE ] When you take it to the extreme...sure. Cuz you know I mean they don't put a single slot in any other attack.
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I have to call you on it. Tar patch != trip mines. There. That's it.
[/ QUOTE ] Sigh...so now this is a discussion about Trip Mine versus Tar Patch? Going to bring up the +2 bosses next? Your attempting to identify Trip Mines as the issue is bogus. The issue you brought up is TP Foe. You were complaining about ONE build...I repeat ONE build having the option of TP Foeing you into Trip Mines. Except guess what? TP FOE is not part of /Devices. So if you want to argue about TP Foe...you're argument blows up in your face because EVERYONE has access to TP Foe....
and you know what's really funny...only Brutes and Stalkers have any inherent resistance to it. No CoH hero gets inherent resistance to TP foe like /EA does. Everyone else need to find a Kinetics Defender. Oh yeah, that's fair. Next.
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GET A TEAM. Get speed boosted!
[/ QUOTE ] Now you're looking clucless. "GET A TEAM. Get speed boosted." Lol...because Speed Boost is part of every players power choices. Becaues every team I'm on, not only has Kin, but they remain alive and well all the time to keep Speed Boost on everyone without fail. Great argument. Your Einsteinian solution to the ubuiquitous Slows is "Get Speed Boosted." Perhaps you should log in to Siren's as a Hero and tell me how that strategy works out for you.
Very typical from the pro-stalker camp.
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Not to mention that superjump, one of the most common travel powers in pvp heavily negates slows.
[/ QUOTE ] Ummm...yeah...I leave you with your own words:
"you have a profound lack of understanding "
EDIT:
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But most of us will agree it has nothing to do with your angry ranting.
[/ QUOTE ] My tone often gives this impression. In truth, I laugh out loud at your type of respones. The logic you guys use to defend your positions I put on par with Bushisms....it's like watching people argue on Jerry Springer.
I think I can say without a doubt that you don't PvP much do ya?
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
For PvP only reduce the distance at which the Stalker can set the power.
Da Falcon Scrapper lvl 50
Shadow Hunter Q Blaster lvl 50
http://psfcoh.com/
Step Up or Step Aside
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For PvP only reduce the distance at which the Stalker can set the power.
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sry, didnt read last posts...way too much, so sry if i got it wrong
but how to reduce a melee range power? O.o
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I think I can say without a doubt that you don't PvP much do ya?
[/ QUOTE ] Then you've just exposed your lack of insight.
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I think I can say without a doubt that you don't PvP much do ya?
[/ QUOTE ] Then you've just exposed your lack of insight.
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You keep making ridiculous statements like claiming that Kineticists can't stay alive long enough to buff....what do you expect people to think? In team based PvP thats part of what you do, help keep the squishies alive so they can do their job. It is a reasonable expectation that a good team will have a kineticist for many of their team builds. We do, and we don't have any problems keeping them alive.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
kin buffs, kin debuffs, kin have an awesome melee range heal, kin usually have lots of teamates...
Kin is a popular girl O.o
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What you are essentially saying, is that in a 1-on-1 fight, a Stalker should bring a Dom.
That is about all I'm able to glean from your post.
[/ QUOTE ]I'm not surpirsed.
How about a Stalker should have to rely on more than Hide + BU +AS +Placate + AS for the easy win against a single target that knows the stalker is there?
Constant motion should be proof against AS. What a crime to require a stalker to have to actually slot some of his/her other attacks to win 1v1 fights?
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Ah, here we go:
AS - 3 second timer for execution
Placate - 2 second timer for execution, opponent sees you
(waiting for AS to come back, 10 seconds)
AS - 3 second timer for execution
Someone will have to be phenominally stupid to wait around for the 18 seconds for that oh-so-wonderful Two-shot uber kill.
What normally happens is:
AS - 3 second.. damnit, AoE.. jump away
(30 seconds of chasing)
AS - 3 second.. ducked behind a building
(45 seconds of chasing)
(Gets jumped by a Dark/Spines Scrapper)
Placate - Hidden - AoE - Unhidden/Immobilized... Dead.
....
(Acquired new target)
(Waiting for them to get out of Stormy range)
Jump down, hit AS, hit AS again because inertia moved you, hit AS again because they moved out of range from the second time... line up again, AS - 3 second timer for execution
HIT!
Focus - 2 seconds
(Popped a green/Aid Self/Regen power/Healed by Warden in range)
(Chase for 30 seconds)
Are you getting the idea yet? This isn't taking into effect that sometimes when you actually need Placate, it's still recharging.. same thing goes for AS.
If I can be hammered into a corner by a Stormy and not be able to crawl my way out, can't detoggle because of the debuff, and that right there is more of an "I WIN" button. If I can be jousted to death by Killer Whale, who can queue every power before even getting in range... it's hardly comforting knowing that to have 1/5 of my end drained all it takes is someone to move 20 feet and miss with only 1 of 2 crits I get for the fight, and I can bet you I'm not lining up another AS when they can still see me.
Playing a Stalker in BB is also WAAAAY different than Warburg/Siren's Call. Whole new dynamic. _Castle_ is more talking about Adult Swim as opposed to your playing in the kiddy pool.
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You keep making ridiculous statements ...
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You mean like this:
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claiming that Kineticists can't stay alive long enough to buff
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Once again, a completely bogus argument and assertion. Nothing of the sort was said. What's ridiculous is that Punchy suggest the counter to the ubquitous slows in PvP are easily answered by teaming. As if that includes a free Kineticists. Kineticists, in and of themselves are rare in PvE...let alone PvP. Kenetics defenders have the hardest time defendering themselves in team PvP...I know...I have lvl 40 which I've PvP'd a ton.
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It is a reasonable expectation that a good team will have a kineticist for many of their team builds.
[/ QUOTE ] You don't PvP much on the Hero side do you? I spent 4 hours in Siren's the other day...and I saw all of one Kineticist...on my team or any other.
All of this is off topic. The idea that AS will be "virtually impossible" to use if there was some 5-10 ft range limit is wholly unnsupported from countless hours PvPing.
Do you know where it would be imposslbe to use? 1v1...but wait!!! PvP isn't so supposed to be about 1v1 is it? So why is Castle trying to protect 1v1 only for Stalkers? This is the real impact of a dual range check. It kills AS for repeated use in 1v1 battles when someone knows a stalker is present.
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For PvP only reduce the distance at which the Stalker can set the power.
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AS cannot be queued. Think of it as a Snipe, except you have to stand within 2 feet of them. And it only works when you are hidden.
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Do you know where it would be imposslbe to use? 1v1...but wait!!! PvP isn't so supposed to be about 1v1 is it? So why is Castle trying to protect 1v1 only for Stalkers? This is the real impact of a dual range check. It kills AS for repeated use in 1v1 battles when someone knows a stalker is present.
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Oh, if a Stalker misses with AS, Hide drops. What happens when a Stalker's hide drops? Why don't we start simple, and walk through the argument here.
Sorry, but I don't think you have the foggiest idea of how difficult and how many attempts it takes to get an AS in the current environment. Adding an additional range check would absolutely neuter the skill. As it is its the least used attack for most Stalkers. Its already tremendously limited, but players on the other side only see the successes.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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. As it is its the least used attack for most Stalkers.
[/ QUOTE ] That's just ridiculous. It is the MOST used attack in PvP. The first thing ANY stalker tries do is AS someone. I'm /SR...teamed, I see exactly what happens.
Sorry...you've lost all credibility.
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kin buffs, kin debuffs, kin have an awesome melee range heal, kin usually have lots of teamates...
Kin is a popular girl O.o
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Kin has to roll a to-hit check in PvP where the BTH is 50%. Kin's heal is note "melee" it's target based. Your target has to "be" in melee for you to heal your self....provided you hit.
Kin has no acc debuff. It's best defense is Siphon Speed....cuz siphon power ain't doing a whole lot.
Let's not misrepresent the reality okay?
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. As it is its the least used attack for most Stalkers.
[/ QUOTE ] That's just ridiculous. It is the MOST used attack in PvP. The first thing ANY stalker tries do is AS someone. I'm /SR...teamed, I see exactly what happens.
Sorry...you've lost all credibility.
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I'm sorry, who are you again? What server do you PvP on and in what SG? You realize that being /SR doesn't give ya the special decoder ring...you have 1 layer of +PER, which means you see the Stalkers that don't also run Stealth....which by and large are the lower skill ones. You have no clue what it takes to AS in the PvP zones and it is the least used attack, the one that has the least value when you are unhidden and makes you the most vulnerable. It also takes the greatest amount of endurance.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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. As it is its the least used attack for most Stalkers.
[/ QUOTE ] That's just ridiculous. It is the MOST used attack in PvP. The first thing ANY stalker tries do is AS someone. I'm /SR...teamed, I see exactly what happens.
Sorry...you've lost all credibility.
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if you limit your stalker and so did your teamate to AS mainly im sry but you just didnt know how to play that AT
theres more in a stalker than just AS, sure its a hell of a powerful tool, but most good stalkers will only use it to start fights when the oponnent is unaware/alone/not jumping like a monkey for an easy kill, one can say AS is quite situational in PvP yah
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. As it is its the least used attack for most Stalkers.
[/ QUOTE ] That's just ridiculous. It is the MOST used attack in PvP. The first thing ANY stalker tries do is AS someone. I'm /SR...teamed, I see exactly what happens.
Sorry...you've lost all credibility.
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if you limit your stalker and so did your teamate to AS mainly im sry but you just didnt know how to play that AT
theres more in a stalker than just AS, sure its a hell of a powerful tool, but most good stalkers will only use it to start fights when the oponnent is unaware/alone/not jumping like a monkey for an easy kill, one can say AS is quite situational in PvP yah
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This isn't the case for Ninja Blade - can't speak for other primaries, but NB relies heavily on AS due to (comparative to other Stalker primaries) lackluster damage overall.
EMs and Spines though? They have other toys besides AS.
It would be nice if the PvP forum was for people who liked to fight, rather than for people who liked to argue. Mieux clealry likes to argue.
Kins are amazing. I know when my SG hits a pvp zone, it's pretty mandatory that we bring at least 1.
As for the survivability of a kin, well, it's not great - relyingo n that powerset to keep you alive is very "hit and miss" - ya, double entendres. But teammates, the people the kin is buffing, do a wonderful job. People who think Kinetics is not a pvp powerset are short sighted and foolish.
As for assasin strike, I don't see any need for any changes other than the incoming one shot fix.
And as for this thread, it's full of stupidity. Straw man arguments and pissing contests solve nothing.
Which is exactly why NB is the weakest Stalker primary in PvP, it relies way too much on AS to be effective. All of the other sets have options, its just that EM and Spines have the best other than AS options.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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which means you see the Stalkers that don't also run Stealth....which by and large are the lower skill ones.
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I actually feel in the long run TAKING Stealth induces a lower overall skill level. I for one -- and I know at least a few other Stalkers I've spoken to have made a similar choice -- have deliberately foregone Stealth simply to make us less reliant on it. And in all honesty, it's worked to quite an extent in my estimation.
I feel the fact that I actually can and DO get off Assassin Strikes against foes who can see me through precision means (generally leaping from out of their line of sight directly behind them and executing the strike the second I can, leaving them absolute minimum time to respond) makes me a better Stalkers than the ones who desparately rely on going entirely unseen. It's impossible to remain fully hidden from a well made team, and the good Stalker I assert adapts that into his tactics rather than relying further on the dead end that is stealth.
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which means you see the Stalkers that don't also run Stealth....which by and large are the lower skill ones.
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I actually feel in the long run TAKING Stealth induces a lower overall skill level. I for one -- and I know at least a few other Stalkers I've spoken to have made a similar choice -- have deliberately foregone Stealth simply to make us less reliant on it. And in all honesty, it's worked to quite an extent in my estimation.
I feel the fact that I actually can and DO get off Assassin Strikes against foes who can see me through precision means (generally leaping from out of their line of sight directly behind them and executing the strike the second I can, leaving them absolute minimum time to respond) makes me a better Stalkers than the ones who desparately rely on going entirely unseen. It's impossible to remain fully hidden from a well made team, and the good Stalker I assert adapts that into his tactics rather than relying further on the dead end that is stealth.
Wait a second. You have someone STANDING AROUND after being ASd and placated long enough for AS to recharge? That's remarkably stupid. On both the part of the victim and the stalker.
So you played your scrapper in BB, and therefore you know the stalker playstyle? Yes, stalkers can get easy kills with AS vs. controllers/defenders... but you shouldn't be getting kills JUST with AS vs. anything else. Unless they're AFK or colossally stupid.
There are points to be made about stalkers, I believe. But one of them is not 'stalkers should have to slot more than one attack'. They do. When you claim theydon't you come off as ignorant to actual gameplay facts and extremely opinionated.