[ QUOTE ]
oookay...
How much infl is it worth to you? Say... 100,000?
The price is too high.
Come on I don't have all day.
I'm thinking!
In five minutes I'm taking my business elseware.
Lookout! Its a Cape!
I thought I smelled spandex!
[/ QUOTE ]
ROTFLMAO! 
I actually hadn't considered influence - just a straight trade for say, Hungry Joe's Isolator for Peppy's Infiltrator. Influence isn't a bad idea, but seeing as there really isn't a good sink for it at the moment I doubt many would accept it as a form of payment.
Bloody Axe Inv/Axe - Champion
Dying Cooper Spi/Reg - Champion
Power Rock Stone/EM - Justice
Mistress Magma Fire/Kin - Freedom
Another idea for the Isolator badge for thos of use who were around before patch 2...
Do it as a limited time event. A "Time Slip" has occoured resulting in portals temporarily appearing here and there in Atlas Park (or wherever) and if you run thru it you are thrown BACK IN TIME....To the outbreak mission. PLUS your character will be first level again (just for the mission). You have to do the Isolator mission again to get out, BUT you can also bag your 100 infected.
Even the badge text would be appropriate then, since you technically DID do this at the beginning of your career.
--Cap Justice
Justice Server / Level 35 Tech Tanker / Confirmed Badge [censored]
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And Celebrant? What about that? Besides, I think that wuld seriously cheapen the badge for folks that DID earn them.
That goes for current stuff, too; I didn't feel up to getting the badge for killing Snaptooth five times (ugh, FIVE times on EACH character, BLECCH). But it's certainly a point of pride for those that DID stick it out and off him the requisite quintet of times.
[/ QUOTE ]
[...]
As for the Celebrant badge? I don't know... it's a tricky one. Perhaps it should remain uniquely available for those present during the first anniversary of CoH?
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, now that you've suggested that Celebrant should be allowed only for those that were "there at the right time" ... let me ask you: what is it about Celebrant that makes it more deserving of "I was in the right place at the right time and did the right thing(s)" than Isolator ... or Jet-setter ... or Hallow Spirit ... or any other opportunity-limited badge?
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps it should be available to everyone, once a year, on the anniversary?
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No, that would cheapen the Celebrant badge. I would like to see a COV equivalent to the Celebrant badge, though - next haloween, of course. And maybe "Celebrant (2)", "Celebrant (3)", and so on could be doable.
But people who were in Paragon City during the month of the anniversary? That's something special, the badge is a memento of that ... and IMO, it would cheapen the badge and the event if it were ever made possible to get it "again".
IMO, what it boils down to is this: if you missed the bus, you missed the bloody bus.
[ QUOTE ]
Certainly, we find ourselves in the unique mire of those that care for the effort they put in, versus those that do not. I cannot speak for the former, as I am not party to their company. But personally, if tomorrow a new portal mission turns up - one filled with Snow Beasts and Ghosts and Contaminated and Vampires - I say, kudos to those that get the badges. I do not subscribe to a premise of exclusivity for the elite. Badges for all, I say. ^_^
[/ QUOTE ]
And I say, the value of the relevant badges will be destroyed; I will no longer hold automatic respect for the owners of such badges. And I would plain refuse to take part in such a mission, because I wouldn't wnat to be party to devaluing someone else's rightly-won symbol of achievement and/or luck.
It's just not right to reverse course and open those limited access badges to anyone and everyone who gets lucky with the right mission. It cheats the people who got them by "legit" means, rather than as a pity-party for folks who missed it.
And keep in mind, I am one of hte folks who missed that bus - MOST of them in fact. And I'm still vehemently opposed to allowing them to be earned "after the fact". Cold Warrior was a neat fillip, a chance to re-earn a prior event badge - BUT, now it's "took part in either winter event", not "happened to get the Winter-Lord mission". And you still had to be here for the FIRST Winter Event to be able to pop an XP-Pinata and get Frozen Fury; anyoen with that still has bragging rights.
I got toy Collecter on precisely ONE of my alts - my Stalker, 'cause I could stealth the presents and ignore the frosties. He's also got Jail Bird, thank god - but I missed getting Handsome and Toothbreaker (silly me forgot to log that alt in). Yeah, I'm disappointed, but ... I wouldn't want a chance to go back and get those badges. Why? Because it would cheapen the accomplishment of others who got it at the RIGHT time.
Ok, not sure if it was suggested or not. Wasn't gonna read all the pages to find out.
This would be easier as a portal mission to a contamined earth. Get 100 contaminated and bing, get badge. no auto exempting or going back in time.
I agree I personally dont like the decision for pre-I2 not getting at least the option for it.
Counter arguements for those who want to argue. WL Halloween and V-Day badges are all special event badges. the Isolator is not and is a current feature in the game.
Badge hunters should get the same opertunities everyone one else had. With every badge that came out since then I had the opertunity to get it, except Isolator there was no opertunity for it. No I am not gonna recreate my character to get the badge.
Isolator doesn't do anything except give a badge, if it has no effect on gameplay and doesn't affect you. why would you even care to disagree?
Nemsis lv50 Inv/SS
Arch-Nemsis lv 50 SS/Inv
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As far as I know - the devs have no plans for including an alternate method to get isolator if you did not get it in outbreak.
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Good.
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Good for post-I2, Bad for pre-I2 (since there was not an opertunity to get it then)
Nemsis lv50 Inv/SS
Arch-Nemsis lv 50 SS/Inv
[ QUOTE ]
Another idea for the Isolator badge for thos of use who were around before patch 2...
Do it as a limited time event. A "Time Slip" has occoured resulting in portals temporarily appearing here and there in Atlas Park (or wherever) and if you run thru it you are thrown BACK IN TIME....To the outbreak mission. PLUS your character will be first level again (just for the mission). You have to do the Isolator mission again to get out, BUT you can also bag your 100 infected.
Even the badge text would be appropriate then, since you technically DID do this at the beginning of your career.
--Cap Justice
Justice Server / Level 35 Tech Tanker / Confirmed Badge [censored]
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Hey Cap, did you read the OP?
Fusion Force
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Isolator doesn't do anything except give a badge, if it has no effect on gameplay and doesn't affect you. why would you even care to disagree?
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Principle.
Seriously - once again, if YOU get to go and acquire a badge that YOU missed out on because of time/date issues ... why shouldn't I be able to do the same thing? Celebrant, Hallow Spirit, Frozen Fury, and similar.
The badge collectors can say over and over again how important having every badge is to them til they're blue in the face. This doesn't change the fact that the devs have made it pretty clear with the limited-time event badges that they don't care. They LIKE the fact that it's nearly impossible for anyone to get every badge, otherwise they wouldn't keep offering these special edition badges. The fact that some toons can't have them is the very thing that makes them special. So all you Veruca Salts are just going to have to deal with the fact that you can't have everything you want.
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Well, i find that a bit unfair, considering I made my character during the 3-day headstart at the launch of CoH. But...if its not going to happen, im not going to complain.
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Un... fair...
You got to play the game 3 days before ther general public and you think because you didn't get a badge that's it's unfair?
<Dr. Evil voice> Riiiiight...
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Actually, he paid for the privledge, as did anyone that preordered.
On that note, I'd be willing to pay for the privledge of getting Isolator on my three 'made before issue 2' toons.
As for 'well the resources are better spent in developing new content'. I disagree. By recycling old content into new special events (in this case the contaminated), the resources used in creating special events could be devoted to developing actual new content.
Or, adding a contaminated mission to one of the Level 45-50 contacts would indeed be low cost new content (something that level range hasnt had in a long time).
For the those that say no because they hate the topic, well, you'd never have to see the topic again.
[edit] - The problem is Isolator doesnt fit into special event category of badges in any case. Special event badges are available to anyone present at the time they are implemented no matter the level. Isolator is the only non-PvP badge not attainable after 'outleveling' it.
~Liberty~
The LEGION (CoH) - The Fallen LEGION (CoV)
Forget your fears and want no more
50's - Renkoro, Remorseless
~Virtue~
Angry Angels / Jaded Angels
Global - @Puretone
[ QUOTE ]
Now that you've suggested that Celebrant should be allowed only for those that were "there at the right time" ... let me ask you: what is it about Celebrant that makes it more deserving of "I was in the right place at the right time and did the right thing(s)" than Isolator ... or Jet-setter ... or Hallow Spirit ... or any other opportunity-limited badge?
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Hey, I'm just tossing around maybes on the Celebrant badge. ^_^ I for one like to shy away from any indication that a particular badge or set of badges is 'special' in comparison to it's breathren... What I can make clear is that so far as the Celebrant badge is concerned, I have no answer as to what should be done with it in this particular capacity.
My own personal take - and this really is just me - I absolutely LOATH all limited-opportunity items within games. Now, potentially that's opening a can of worms (I can already see people lining up to say "Well, that's the way life is" and so on) but my take on the matter goes something like this:
Games have a replay factor. A popular method for increasing the reply factor is introducing a system whereby the player expands additional effort essentially doing more than is necessary to progress through the game. For instance, you can try and collect all known Materia in FFVIII, or find all one hundred and twenty Stars in Mario 64.
Nobody twists your arm and forces you to undertake these tasks; but there are a certain number of players for whom there is an intrinsic need to cover every inch of a game, uncover every secret and achieve every objective. It is also quite a widespread phenom within the gaming community, given the often quite elaborate and lavish effort that goes into such replay schemes.
Unlike other games, City of X is an MMORPG and is therefor mutable and ever-changing. It is locked to a permanent and real timescale. Sure, you might miss a few of those aforementioned Materia in FFVII... but you can always wipe your game and go back to where it all began (only this time forwarned and forarmed.) This is not a possibility in CoX; you can wipe your characters, but whatever event-driven badges they carried will be lost forever.
My point in all of this is that from a purely financial standpoint, the creation of the CoX badge system is one intended to time sink players. And the most vocal advocates of the badge system are going to be those that most conform to the archtype of the dedicated badge hound. These are the people dedicated to completing their collection; therefore, I am inclined to think that indulging these people in their passion is a positive thing.
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No, that would cheapen the Celebrant badge. I would like to see a COV equivalent to the Celebrant badge, though - next haloween, of course. And maybe "Celebrant (2)", "Celebrant (3)", and so on could be doable.
But people who were in Paragon City during the month of the anniversary? That's something special, the badge is a memento of that ... and IMO, it would cheapen the badge and the event if it were ever made possible to get it "again".
IMO, what it boils down to is this: if you missed the bus, you missed the bloody bus.
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That's certainly an idea I find interesting. I'm having trouble really exorcising my thoughts into words here; but my take on the Celebrant badge is that frankly, it's not all that special. (Mind you, this is a thought dedicated just to Celebrant here.) Now, I can't remember the specifics of the award requirements; but I think it was something as simple as "Be here during the month of celebration".
First of all, it just seems difficult to cheapen something that was given away freely and took very little effort to earn. "Log in, get badge". But also - and this is where my words become a little muddled - the award, celebrating a year of City of Heroes... it wasn't for those that were here since the start. Or those that came in after a few months. Or half a year. It was for everyone, regardless, providing they logged in at the right time. It just doesn't seem that special, you know? (Like I said, muddled... I might just sound like an idiot at this point.)
If I can draw an analogy here - see, there's this McDonald's, right?... Actually, on second thoughts, let's try something different. I personally see the Celebrant badge as something akin to Mardi Gras beads. Big celebration, once a year, you get your beads. You take them home and treasure them, even though everyone has them and they are practically being given away. Next year, you go to New Orleans again, it's Mardi Gras... wait, what's this? MORE BEADS? But my beads here are special! These people weren't here last year, how come they get some?!
Now at this point, it's entirely about perception. I see the Celebrant badge as a little something Cryptic threw in to celebrate the game's anniversary. They weren't celebrating the player or the player's achievements. Heck, the player that had an account at the time but forgot to log in didn't get the badge! Something there just doesn't sit right with me.
Having said that, I can see that your own interpretation of the event is, of course, quite different. To you it was a more special endevour; and I respect that. And on a realistic note, CuppaJo quite clearly stated that the Dev team have little intention of trying to make the badges available to all - so at this point, argument on the matter could be quite moot. Barring that particular obsticle, what I would like to see is a comparison of those that would like to be able to collect these 'missed opportunity' badges, versus those that feel that option should not be made available, as it cheapens their own efforts.
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And I say, the value of the relevant badges will be destroyed; I will no longer hold automatic respect for the owners of such badges. And I would plain refuse to take part in such a mission, because I wouldn't want to be party to devaluing someone else's rightly-won symbol of achievement and/or luck.
It's just not right to reverse course and open those limited access badges to anyone and everyone who gets lucky with the right mission. It cheats the people who got them by "legit" means, rather than as a pity-party for folks who missed it.
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I'm certainly not trying to be judgemental here, I try to be understanding. But I am having trouble getting my head around feeling so strongly about locking out a particular percentage of the player population... If I understand you correctly - and I hope I do, please point me right otherwise - but you see a kind of... well, 'elite' status associated with the badges? (I'm not using the word 'elite' here as an insult, although I know it can carry negative connotations... I just can't think of a better word right now.)
I don't know. Personally, if there was a good degree of player skill involved in the acquisition of said badges, I think perhaps I would be inclined to agree somewhat. The problem is, that wasn't the case. Taking out a Pumpkin King or Winter Lord was highly resident in many zones on finding an accepting team. The Toothbreaker badge and Toy Collector badges were for being numbingly persistant. The Celebrant badge was for logging on at the right time.
This is, of course, all entirely personal conjecture. It's just that if we are going to deal with badges available to only some of the players, than I would much rather see that happen as a salute to their extraordinary skill... and not because they were in the right place at the right time. That strikes me as not unlike giving someone an honorary doctorate... for winning the lottery.
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And keep in mind, I am one of the folks who missed that bus - MOST of them in fact. And I'm still vehemently opposed to allowing them to be earned "after the fact". Cold Warrior was a neat fillip, a chance to re-earn a prior event badge - BUT, now it's "took part in either winter event", not "happened to get the Winter-Lord mission". And you still had to be here for the FIRST Winter Event to be able to pop an XP-Pinata and get Frozen Fury; anyone with that still has bragging rights.
I got toy Collecter on precisely ONE of my alts - my Stalker, 'cause I could stealth the presents and ignore the frosties. He's also got Jail Bird, thank god - but I missed getting Handsome and Toothbreaker (silly me forgot to log that alt in). Yeah, I'm disappointed, but ... I wouldn't want a chance to go back and get those badges. Why? Because it would cheapen the accomplishment of others who got it at the RIGHT time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe that's where we differ? I don't see ANY of the badges as being worthy of 'bragging rites'... now, if I see someone with a very sizable badge collection, I'll be impressed. But to me, that's because they've taken the time and effort - usually at the expense of other activities, such as levelling - to increase their collection. That shows me dedication to a cause. I like that. ^_^
Inversely, if I see someone with an entire seven badges, one of which is the Celebrant... the last thing that's going to pop into my head is "Whoah, they've got 'Celebrant'! I had heard of this thing, but I never thought I would actually get to see one... this must be a mighty hero indeed! I must team with them!"
As a final note, you know what I find weird? I've got most of the badges in question (bar my two alts, I simply didn't have time to pick up Toy Collector or Toothbreaker with them)... and I'm arguing that the badge system should be opened up to be available for all. ^_^ Inversely, you state that you have few of the badges but do not want them becoming available. I'm not saying one way is better than the other, I just find it funny that in this particular discussion, we are each advocating a position that is of no direct importance to our own relative situation. ^_^
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Agreed, and not just because of the time sink. It's not even a plausible solution. Anyone who re-rolls their toon now would lose event badges (e.g., Cold Warrior, Toy Collector, Celebrant, and [soon] all the Valentine's Day event badges).
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And that is why I specifically said that those who at the time Issue 2 introduced badges ... not everyone who has a 50 today ... just those people out there who were pre-badge who really really wanted the badges. If they had rerolled their toons for the sole purpose of making sure they got every badge, from the time badges became active, then this entire thread would not even be needed.
If I had had a level 50 by the time badges were introduced .... YES, i would have remade my toon in a heartbeat to ensure that I had every single possible badge. Oh wait ... I was level 29 when badges were introduced and I did remake my toon...
My suggestion is about as asinine as asking the devs to hand it over 
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My suggestion is about as assanine as asking the devs to hand it over
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No, don't sink to his level! I know you can spell "assanine" correctly!
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The badge collectors can say over and over again how important having every badge is to them til they're blue in the face. This doesn't change the fact that the devs have made it pretty clear with the limited-time event badges that they don't care. They LIKE the fact that it's nearly impossible for anyone to get every badge, otherwise they wouldn't keep offering these special edition badges. The fact that some toons can't have them is the very thing that makes them special. So all you Veruca Salts are just going to have to deal with the fact that you can't have everything you want.
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You are quite right, in the sense that Developers have indeed said that they like things the way they are right now. Having said that, several decisions made on the Developer side of the fence have been reversed as a result of player input.
I think what (at least) some of us are saying here is, it's not in their benefit to make some of these badges so exclusive. I think that the greatest consumers of the badge system (and therefore the most... 'time sunk'?) players are those with a rabid need to collect each and every badge. Furthermore, their aim is to collect *all* badges; to miss even one badge, permanently, is to greatly disparage the badge collector in their quest.
Basically, it seems to me that psychologically it's a bit of mistake to effectively turn down the (realistic) wishes of the people that just so happen to also be the greatest consumers of your product (in this case, the badge system.)
Furthermore, as so far as the 'resource' arguement is concerned, constructing new missions for the badges need be nothing more than reusing old content in innovative ways. (Old conent which is, in many respects, languishing in limbo; i.e. the Pumpkin King and the Winter Lord.) It would be very easy and very simple to pad out the upcoming Halloween and Winter events by dragging out these old foes, in addition to adding new event content.
Personally, I just greatly dislike the idea that everyone who would like a second - no, a first stab at getting Isolator, or Cold Warrior, or what have you - is essentially some sort of spoiled brat throwing a tantrum. We are noting politely that as we are devoting so much time to giving Cryptic and NCSoft our monies, we would be quite appreciative in turn if they could modify their product in a simple, harmless manner, to better conform to our idea of how things should be.
Good lord, it's not like we are demanding ED be rolled back or somesuch. All we are saying is that we would be quite thankful if someone could take a moment to drop an apropriate mission or two in the database and populate it with some contaminated, maybe think about taking a few giant monsters out of the closet, dusting them off, and letting them loose anually.
And just a thought; think of something you really love about this game. Maybe it's the PvP. Maybe it's the social interaction. Maybe it's the missions, or the teaming, or the task forces, or the events. There is most likely something about this game that you enjoy. And furthermore, enjoying it as much as you do, you've probably got some good insight into that particular element of the game. There are probably even a few things you would like to see tweaked, maybe a few improvements that could make that game - at very little cost - even more satisfying to play.
I therefore look on with great consternation and puzzlement that as we sit here and pleasantly toss around some ideas in intellectual curiosity, that others feel the need to come in here and tear them down.
And really... Varuca Salt?
That's a bit harsh, isn't it?
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Thanks for all the support from the Pro-Isolators! I guess I should thank the Anti-Isolators as well for making it such a big issue, and keeping the thread alive...
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After my very first post here, stating my position of disagreement, I've only posted here to maintain the ruckus to see how many pages we can drag this out into...I'm quite impressed that we've made it as far as the 20's!
Excellent analogy, LiquidX.
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My suggestion is about as assanine as asking the devs to hand it over
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No, don't sink to his level! I know you can spell "assanine" correctly!
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Awww but do I have to?? hehe
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[edit] - The problem is Isolator doesnt fit into special event category of badges in any case. Special event badges are available to anyone present at the time they are implemented no matter the level. Isolator is the only non-PvP badge not attainable after 'outleveling' it.
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Nope. There's also "Jail Bird", the COV Tutorial-only badge.
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[edit] - The problem is Isolator doesnt fit into special event category of badges in any case. Special event badges are available to anyone present at the time they are implemented no matter the level. Isolator is the only non-PvP badge not attainable after 'outleveling' it.
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Nope. There's also "Jail Bird", the COV Tutorial-only badge.
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Jail Bird is different from Isolator in that everyone has a chance to get it on their villain, except for a Hero -> Villain transfer...maybe...
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And noone has said that ALL badges should be available ...
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Your quote.
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If a badge is gettable, it should be gettable by everyone.
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kafziel's quote.
Did I miss something here?
Honestly, how many pre-I2 heroes took out 100 contaminated, when doing so does nothing for you?
Seriously, to me the badge is a way to keep new players (or badge hounds) in the tutorial longer.
Should there be a message informing people of it's existance? Sure. That's something I'll get behind. Someone start that post and I'll petition the devs for it right along wth ya.
Should you get it as a retroactive reward or possible flashback possiblity? Well maybe the flashback thing if they ever decide to do that, but not retroactive.
At any rate, the devs have stated quite clearly: You ain't getting any cheese.
So stop whining.
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[edit] - The problem is Isolator doesnt fit into special event category of badges in any case. Special event badges are available to anyone present at the time they are implemented no matter the level. Isolator is the only non-PvP badge not attainable after 'outleveling' it.
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Nope. There's also "Jail Bird", the COV Tutorial-only badge.
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Jail Bird is different from Isolator in that everyone has a chance to get it on their villain, except for a Hero -> Villain transfer...maybe...
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Correct, Jailbird was there from the start of CoV, not so with Isolator.
~Liberty~
The LEGION (CoH) - The Fallen LEGION (CoV)
Forget your fears and want no more
50's - Renkoro, Remorseless
~Virtue~
Angry Angels / Jaded Angels
Global - @Puretone
[ QUOTE ]
....Good lord, it's not like we are demanding ED be rolled back or somesuch. All we are saying is that we would be quite thankful if someone could take a moment to drop an apropriate mission or two in the database and populate it with some contaminated....
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Thank you Pamprin! Excellent!
Fusion Force
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As far as I know - the devs have no plans for including an alternate method to get isolator if you did not get it in outbreak.
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It's not that I didn't, it's that I couldn't... it didn't exist 
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My own personal take - and this really is just me - I absolutely LOATH all limited-opportunity items within games. Now, potentially that's opening a can of worms (I can already see people lining up to say "Well, that's the way life is" and so on) but my take on the matter goes something like this:
Games have a replay factor. A popular method for increasing the reply factor is introducing a system whereby the player expands additional effort essentially doing more than is necessary to progress through the game. For instance, you can try and collect all known Materia in FFVIII, or find all one hundred and twenty Stars in Mario 64.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, but MMOs differ from thigns like Super Mario in this way: new content is always being added. There's always another event to look forward to (or to be surprised with, like the Valentines Day event kinda did - no advanced fanfare, just "oh by the way - have fun, guys!").
I think that enhances replay value. Sure, your first Hero didn't get isolator, and DID get lots of the Halloween badges. That was then, this is now - your NEXT hero can get Isolator, and won't gtthe Haloween badges. Already, right there, wihtout looking at Origin, Power Sets, choices WRT TFs and the like ... your experience with the game will be different.
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No, that would cheapen the Celebrant badge. I would like to see a COV equivalent to the Celebrant badge, though - next haloween, of course. And maybe "Celebrant (2)", "Celebrant (3)", and so on could be doable.
But people who were in Paragon City during the month of the anniversary? That's something special, the badge is a memento of that ... and IMO, it would cheapen the badge and the event if it were ever made possible to get it "again".
IMO, what it boils down to is this: if you missed the bus, you missed the bloody bus.
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That's certainly an idea I find interesting. I'm having trouble really exorcising my thoughts into words here; but my take on the Celebrant badge is that frankly, it's not all that special. (Mind you, this is a thought dedicated just to Celebrant here.) Now, I can't remember the specifics of the award requirements; but I think it was something as simple as "Be here during the month of celebration".
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As I recall, from reading about the badge:log the character in during that month, and get the badge. It's a point of "yeah, I've been playing this character for a loooong time"; a '50 with Celebrant impresses me slightly more than a '50 wihtout that badge. The "With" is obviously an old hand, who's been playing COH for quite a while now.
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First of all, it just seems difficult to cheapen something that was given away freely and took very little effort to earn. "Log in, get badge". But also - and this is where my words become a little muddled - the award, celebrating a year of City of Heroes... it wasn't for those that were here since the start. Or those that came in after a few months. Or half a year. It was for everyone, regardless, providing they logged in at the right time. It just doesn't seem that special, you know? (Like I said, muddled... I might just sound like an idiot at this point.)
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Ah, but you see ... I don't have that badge. Never will, either. I wasn't part of COH back then ... I didn't even have a computer that could THINK of running COH at the time, and as for ISP ... lol ... I was still on 56.6 dialup (at best), right up until this past september.
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If I can draw an analogy here - see, there's this McDonald's, right?... Actually, on second thoughts, let's try something different. I personally see the Celebrant badge as something akin to Mardi Gras beads. Big celebration, once a year, you get your beads. You take them home and treasure them, even though everyone has them and they are practically being given away. Next year, you go to New Orleans again, it's Mardi Gras... wait, what's this? MORE BEADS? But my beads here are special! These people weren't here last year, how come they get some?!
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But those beads aren't specific to the year in which you went to Mardi gras. And Mardi Gras is every year, not "once and once only".
So a better analogy, IMO, would be ...oh, heck, how about (since I'm Boston born and bred) your tickets to the World Series, proving you were there when the Sox finally won the darned thing again.
Or, a truly more direct parallel - in themilitary, being part of a military operation in a specific theater, during a specific span of time, gets you a service ribbon for that place/time/etc. The only folks sporting service ribbons for Desert Storm are the guys who were THERE - even if they were "only" supply clerks sitting a hundred miles or mroe behind the lines. Doesn't matter if you were a 20+ year career soldier, or a wet-behind-the-ears kid fresh from basic training ... if you were playing in that particular sandbox, you get the ribbon for it. They were there, "on the day" if you will, and that's all it takes.
Guys that retired three months before then, or who weren't deployed to Kuwait? No service ribbon. Doesn't matter if they're bloody Generals with more political connections than you could shake a stick at ... no service ribbon. They just weren't there at the time.
That is what event-limited badges are like, IMO.
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Barring that particular obsticle, what I would like to see is a comparison of those that would like to be able to collect these 'missed opportunity' badges, versus those that feel that option should not be made available, as it cheapens their own efforts.
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Actually, I'm opposed to "missed opportunity" schemes not because it cheapens my efforts - but because it might cheapen your efforts, and that would intrinsicly make collecting badges less special to me.
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It's just not right to reverse course and open those limited access badges to anyone and everyone who gets lucky with the right mission. It cheats the people who got them by "legit" means, rather than as a pity-party for folks who missed it.
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I'm certainly not trying to be judgemental here, I try to be understanding. But I am having trouble getting my head around feeling so strongly about locking out a particular percentage of the player population... If I understand you correctly - and I hope I do, please point me right otherwise - but you see a kind of... well, 'elite' status associated with the badges? (I'm not using the word 'elite' here as an insult, although I know it can carry negative connotations... I just can't think of a better word right now.)
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"Elite" is perhaps a bit strong of a word, but ... I'd say I see a certain value in the very fact that some badges ARE in limited supply.
PErhaps it will help you to understand this, if I point out that in my youth, I was an avid (if horribly naieve and amateur) numismatist. Er, that means "coin collector". I still have a few of my early prizes,too ... hung onto because of their relative scarcity, and/or the interesting historical relevance some have.
For example - I have an extremely poor-condition coin, a copper disk about an inch-and-a-quarter across; it's an 18th century British copper penny. It's been physically abused (not by me, mind), and looks like it was hit in the middle with something - hit quite hard, because there's a sizeable dent (the fanciful side of me wants to say "maybe it was shot by something", heh). All told - it's just a dented disk of dark brown-black copper. The bit that makes it so special?
The date is "1_96", with either a 7 or 9 in the "_" spot; it's so worn down there, it's very difficult to see. I can tell you, though, that it is definitely a "7" there - because the name on the coin ...? George III. Yeah, the very guy the U.S. rebelled against. Kinda neat to have found that coin, here in America, nearly two hundred years later (at the time I found it tucked away in an old box from a flea market, anyway).
Of course, it's "just" a silly bit of copper, worn almost to unrecognisability, badly dented, and bearing the discolering patina of centuries of neglect and abuse.
I also have some paper currency, oneof which I particularly like;it's Austrian, from sometime around 1930 or 1940 - yep, it's worth precisely diddly as money, 'cause it's in Reichsmarks.
All 500,000 of them.
I like it 'cause it's a paper note with a face value of "one half million", PLUS, it has mild historical significance. In reality, of course, it's justone of many tens of thousands of identical piees of equally-devalued paper. (Inflation being what it was, I'd be surprised if that note would have bought more than a half a loaf of bread, at the time. If that much.)
...
But those two things, still consider to be special. There aren't that many objects of their nature in the world, and I - little insignificant unimportant me - happen to have them. That's incredibly cool.
I view "event limited" badges much the same way. It's like collectible coins ... if you mint more, they stop being worth as much. The value comes from their being in limited supply.
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Inversely, if I see someone with an entire seven badges, one of which is the Celebrant... the last thing that's going to pop into my head is "Whoah, they've got 'Celebrant'! I had heard of this thing, but I never thought I would actually get to see one... this must be a mighty hero indeed! I must team with them!"
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You misunderstand how I respect someone with, for continued example, "Celebrant". I don't assume they're any god at the game ... but I become cognisant of the fact that they've seen thegame grow and develop for far longer than I have. (Or if you prefer, they have weathered more Nerf-Storms than I have. ^_^)
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As a final note, you know what I find weird? I've got most of the badges in question (bar my two alts, I simply didn't have time to pick up Toy Collector or Toothbreaker with them)... and I'm arguing that the badge system should be opened up to be available for all. ^_^ Inversely, you state that you have few of the badges but do not want them becoming available. I'm not saying one way is better than the other, I just find it funny that in this particular discussion, we are each advocating a position that is of no direct importance to our own relative situation. ^_^
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I'd say this shows something:
[*] you have the badges, and so, they're nothing special to you. Thus, you don't see any risk of a loss of value inherent in eVERYone having them.
[*] I don't have the badges, and thus see them as something special - thus, I immediately become concerned that allowing "cheap knockoffs" to flood the market would cheapen the badges themselves.
You know, I probably wouldn't have posted in this thread, since I think obsessive badge collecting is the strangest thing CoH players do. I usually just get the acc powers and leave it at that.
But the entire argument against letting people who want this badge seems to come down to two points:
a) It might take development time.
b) You can't have everything you want.
Since the devs have willingly put development time, probably massively greater development time, in on a huge stylish dance club - I can't see how one mission added to one contact would really break their backs. Stick a portal mission at the end of some contacts list of missions, make the map identical to Outbreak, up the levels of the infected. ISn't that all it would take?
As for the latter, as a sometimes substitute teacher, you have my sympathy. But compared to the obviously HUGE amount of feeling the obsessive collectors are holding on this issue . . . it just doesn't justify denying them.
I don't understand why Isolator is so important - or why any badge without a power attached is so important. But the people who care most about badges, and there are a lot of them, want this.
Just let them have it.
Quote:
If I could, I would give you my badge.
Now there's an IDEA! BADGE TRADING!!! Woo! Hoo!
oookay...
How much infl is it worth to you? Say... 100,000?
The price is too high.
Come on I don't have all day.
I'm thinking!
In five minutes I'm taking my business elseware.
Lookout! Its a Cape!
I thought I smelled spandex!