Thank you States. Good to know it's being looked at.
I feel that prestige should scale with level just like infamy and xp. Lets face it, being level 40 has more prestige associated with it. So why not earn more prestige at higher level. 5 - 10 level capped villains should be able to have a good small base without spending 6 months to earn the prestige. The larger the plot and rooms the higher the cost.
Statesman: My SG has three active members left. Yes, we could dissolve and combine with another, larger group, but our SG has a story and we don't want to give up that story.
But we do want to enjoy everything that the game offers. We are willing to do what we have to to do that. We team with others to do TFs and to take out AVs. We don't expect every part of the game to be built for our play style.
But base construction is absolutely insane. For us to build everything that we need just to have a basic workshop, we'll need 690K, unless I'm missing something. That will never happen. Even with the paltry bonus that was given to existing groups. And we were so looking forward to basic medical and teleport options also.
Bases were a huge part of our advertising for CoV. If the biggest reasons to have them is going to be completely inaccessible to the vast majority of your player base (when you include most all the casual gamers), this is a major problem.
This points out the big flaw in the testing that was done, it ignored the economics. Bases were fun for everyone in the CoV beta but there was no way to see that even the basic luxuries would be off limits to people like us.
Scorus
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We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
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Can I kiss you States? It'd be purely Platonic, I assure you...
...being an incarnation of Zeus and all you should have a unique appreciation for all things Platonic...
Thats why I like this game, someones actually listening.
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Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.
Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
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The idea of selling salvage is good, but it has a certain flaw as well. For better items, that salvage that we have so much of now will be needed more. It's only not needed now because alot of us can't afford the (6)tables/power/control to build other things that we can't afford to place. Not a whine, a fact.
I must be slow, but I'm still not understanding what's to work on? Can't you guys just lower the prices? For one thing, it seems silly that a strictly decorative room should cost the same as a room with a function. It's just a hollow cube for storing stuff after all. Or just increase the percent of prestige earned? I love the base idea, but I would surely love it more if my little themed alt sg could afford more than the entrance and one big functionless room.
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Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.
Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
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Try to keep in mind that those small groups have already put everything they had into the Big base, so if you end up making something smaller for us pls allow our existing work to be transfered.
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Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.
Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
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Try to keep in mind that those small groups have already put everything they had into the Big base, so if you end up making something smaller for us pls allow our existing work to be transfered.
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Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.
Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
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Try to keep in mind that those small groups have already put everything they had into the Big base, so if you end up making something smaller for us pls allow our existing work to be transfered.
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Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.
Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
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Try to keep in mind that those small groups have already put everything they had into the Big base, so if you end up making something smaller for us pls allow our existing work to be transfered.
Actually, one thing that would help small SGs is to make the medical bay worth it.
As it is right now, Raids are the only reason to have a medical transporter. Since the transporter takes you to the middle of the zone instead of to the mission door, there's no reason to go to the med bay transporter instead of to the hospital.
I've seen a few SGs go through the same process. They work and work to get teleporters and a med bay. Then they find out that the Med bay has no advantage over the hospital, but it requires an extra level load. So they get rid of it and feel very disappointed that it wasn't as useful as it seemed it would be.
If the transporters could be set up to always take you to the mission door, the medical bay would be massively more useful. If you could craft a "recall to base" temp power after your base has teleporters, the teleporters would be much more useful.
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Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
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Suggestion: multiply prestige earnings for each member, based on how few other members are in the SG. When that goes live, apply the same multiplier to each group's current Net Worth, and adjust "free" / "unspent" prestige accordingly.
First thing would be to decide what is a "mid-level" group; let's pick 40 members, just because it's a round number - and use a nonlinear progression, so that the increase to prestige earned is ever greater, for the same number of embers "short" of the previous threshold.
So, 36m to 40m = 100%
31m to 35m = 110% (like having ~34-39 people earning prestige) ...? That's a 10% gain, for 5 members "lost".
Make the next step 15%, for the same 5 "lost" members: 26m to 30m = 125% (like having ~32-38 people earning prestige) ...!
Continue the progression:
21m to 25m = 145% (like having ~30-36 people earning prestige)
16m to 20m = 170% (like having ~32-34 people earning prestige)
15m = 200% (like having 30 people earning prestige)
Wait. Pause a second, and re-evaluate. At this point, each member lost is also 20K prestige lost. Up the rate of gain, but make it linear, and per-member:
14m = 225% (like having ~31 people earning prestige)
13m = 250% (like having ~32 people earning prestige)
12m = 275% (like having 33 people earning prestige)
11m = 300% (like having 33 people earning prestige)
10m = 325% (like having ~32 people earning prestige)
9m = 350% (like having ~29 people earning prestige)
8m = 375% (like having 28 people earning prestige)
7m = 400% (like having 28 people earning prestige)
Pause again; nice round number ont eh bonus, let's kick things up a notch, with this few people prestige income will be extremely low, no matter what:
6m = 450% (like having 27 people earning prestige)
5m = 500% (like having 25 people earning prestige)
4m = 550% (like having 22 people earning prestige)
3m = 600% (like having 18 people earning prestige)
2m = 650% (like having 13 people earning prestige)
1m = 700% (like having 7 people earning prestige)
There. THAT, I think, would address the difficulties of small groups; it has flaws, yes (too many alts in the same group = shooting yourself in the foot WRT prestige income).
You can simply measure the current net worth of a group at the moment the patch goes live, spent and unspent prestige together, and multiply it by the appropriate number from above, based on how many people are in the group right then. Just put the patch live without warning, and noone should be able to pull off any exploits, either. ^_^
The benefit of doing it that way is, you don't need to evaluate the price of items, not now ... and not stuff you add in the future. If a group's membership changes, their base doesn't have to be re-evaluated for cost, so their "unspent prestige" total need never be touched.
All that changes, once the patch goes live, is how much Prestige each SG and Vg has at that moment ... and after that, how much prestige any given hero accumulates per defeated enemy ...!
This means less effort TOMORROW, net month, next year, and so on. Keep Base-building prices balanced for the mid-to-large group, and fluctuating memberships will take care of themselves ...!
If I were to suggest a way out of the Prestige bind, I would suggest some kind of formula that assumes the "average" intended SG size pays some intended amount of Prestige for any purchase. As SG size increases past that average, prices go up very slowly, so there is an advantage to bringing in more people: each person has to work less hard to pull his weight.
On the other hand, as the SG size goes below the "average" intended size, prices drop somewhat rapidly. Not to zero, of course; there would be a minimum price for a 1-person SG, not free but certainly attainable.
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Actually, one thing that would help small SGs is to make the medical bay worth it.
As it is right now, Raids are the only reason to have a medical transporter. Since the transporter takes you to the middle of the zone instead of to the mission door, there's no reason to go to the med bay transporter instead of to the hospital.
I've seen a few SGs go through the same process. They work and work to get teleporters and a med bay. Then they find out that the Med bay has no advantage over the hospital, but it requires an extra level load. So they get rid of it and feel very disappointed that it wasn't as useful as it seemed it would be.
If the transporters could be set up to always take you to the mission door, the medical bay would be massively more useful. If you could craft a "recall to base" temp power after your base has teleporters, the teleporters would be much more useful.
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My SG is in this particular "boat" right now.
Since CoV/I6 came out, we have been struggling to get enough Prestige for one simple goal: To get a working Medical Bay.
So far, we've managed to build an Infirmary and an Energy Room, but we're still saving up for the 100,000 Control Room, the 250,000 Power Source, not to mention a Computer and a Database -- all of which we have to have before the Infirmary will function even at the basic 25% level.
All of this has been based on the assumption that leaving the Base after dying would take you back to the mission door (as it did in Beta).
We would still have to "take a knee" before going back (at least until that far-off day when we can afford a Workshop and Work Tables), but it would still be worth the massive amount of time and effort we're having to put into it.
Now we've been told that this isn't the case, and that a Medical Bay has no actual real benefit over just going to Hospital.
This is terribly disappointing.
We have absolutely zero interest in PvP/Raids (and are really too small, even if we were interested), so given the extremely high Prestige cost of everything and the fact that most (if not all) items are pretty much useless outside of PvP, we're starting to wonder what the point is in trying to have a Base at all?
At this point, we're seriously considering selling back the crap we've got so far and just building a few rooms of decorative stuff (if we even bother doing anything more with Bases at all).
Bases seemed like such a potentially cool thing too.
Silas Dark
D.E.F.E.N.S.E. Incorporated
[i]"City of Heroes is at its best as a Superhero game that's implemented as an MMO, rather than as an MMO that just happens to be about Superheroes..."[/i]
One thing I'd like? To be able to build furniture and place it for less prestige than than it costs to buy it.
I'm not even talking about useful stuff. I mean like the chairs and booktables that the architect can buy. You don't even have to make new ones, just assign recipes to the ones that can already be placed. Make them a different category so that they can be ignored. That way someone at a worktable can hide "Component Recipees" and "Ornamental Resicpees" and just see the "Detail Recipees".
It'd be cool to look around a base and see that everything in it was made by members of the SG.
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I want to be happy about this, but since it's "we're working on it" and "no timeline" I think even my SG will have a functional SG before this new solution goes live.
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The problem of course being that if he mentions a timeline (say like what happened with skills), then he will forever have folks shout "You said X would be out by issue seven! You lie again, Stinksman! I hate you and your game FOREVER! Burn in hell!" at him.
People seem to forget that development takes a long, long time. The stuff they start desinging, coding and testing today we wont see for 3-6 months. Sure things can get rushed through, but as a rule - game development aint quick.
Need more attention for the non PVP crowd, too. As it stands, outside of a mission computer there doesn't appear to be much use for bases. Considering the outrageous prestige costs for things and then the extremly limited usefulness... bases are disappointing, at best.
What I'd want is more non PvP functionaltiy (med bays and teleporters that are an advantage over things not in the base) and cheapr prices. Perhaps the higher prices are a PvP balance? Keep them if that's the case. Or perhaps offer a second non-PvP base type with cheaper prices (after all, there's no competition issues there).
YMMV
Thank god, our 5 man SG is being murdered by the Salavage item costs.
01001001 00100000 01101100 01101001 01101011 01100101 00100000 01110000 01101001 01100101
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Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.
Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
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Jack, you rock! Thanks for paying attention to this issue.
Good to hear Statesman! Thanks for the post.
It's always nice when a problem/concern is acknowledged and the Community is informed that it is being worked on.
Now, if they'd only look at the rent issue...
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
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Now, if they'd only look at the rent issue...
[/ QUOTE ]hehe Yea I was going to post something about that , but figured I'd wait until this goes through.
I for one am quite happy. I am in an SG of RL friends, we are very picky about who we let join, because it's about fun, not a big SG. Glad to hear that our little group won't continue to be punished for being close-knit.
I think us smaller groups would be happy just if the prices for small rooms and basic equipment was knocked down just a little bit. Even if it's the just the initial crappy stuff, let us have some functional base equipment, and then as a long-term goal shoot for earning enough prestige to buy the doodads that make the base hospitals recover 100%.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball