I agree that the costs for setting up just a basic functional base should be lowered and brought into reach for the smaller supergroups. The costs for power, control, and the workbenches should come way down so that the smaller supergroups can do something with the salvage they're accumulating. Each person can only hold 20 of each kind of salvage, but can hold much more of each type of material created from the salvage. At least give them a way to convert their salvage into something that can be stored and not force the smaller supergroups to sacrifice salvage that may be useful to them in the future.
Most base costs can be divided into two groups: decorative/functional and defensive/raidable. The first group would include things like energy, control, workshops, infirmaries, teleporters, and decorative rooms and objects. The second group includes anything dealing with defense, having 'secure' in the name, or deals directly with raids (vaults, IoP mounts, dimensional anchors, etc.). Reduce the cost of the items in the first group dramatically so smaller groups can do something useful and cool with their bases. Leave the costs in the second group at their already obscenely high costs so that people who want to raid actually have to work for it. Sure, the smaller supergroups are going to complain because you promoted the fact that CoV would have bases and raids then disenfranchised a large number of your players by making the costs of everything prohibitively high, but you should have thought of that earlier. At least give them something in return.
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once you get beyond a couple of starter rooms, control and power will go pretty quickly... add a mission computer, medical stuff, raid teleport, zone telepads etc and you will see control just vanish.
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That's beside the point. As I read the "starter" generator/control suggestion, it's about providing a way for a new sg to get a base that does something (not necessarily everything, for which needing the full-size generator/mainframe is appropriate, just something) without having to spend months raising 3/4 million prestige.
I think that would be a good thing to do. But, then, I think that you should be able to get your base to do something (again, definitely not everything, and maybe not even something useful, just something cool besides sitting there looking pretty) almost immediately after getting it.
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well... I am starting to feel you the really small groups....a good portion of my group stopped playing because they have nothing to do until there is an update... so the past few days we have been lucky top bring in 10K a day... I am 40 and cant help out either since I cant get any missions --- doing the same 5 warberg missions or fighting CoT in the sewers from a paper mission is not fun.
The case is being made though that even if you got your starter generator and had lower costs, the base is still just a boondoogle.
Even with all the transporters, a raid teleprtor, medical reclaimefr and auto doc, there is no real function the base provides. There is no real benefit. If bases vanished today, there is no feature anyone would miss.
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Even with all the transporters, a raid teleprtor, medical reclaimefr and auto doc, there is no real function the base provides. There is no real benefit. If bases vanished today, there is no feature anyone would miss.
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Says you. Me, I wouldn't agree.
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Even with all the transporters, a raid teleprtor, medical reclaimefr and auto doc, there is no real function the base provides. There is no real benefit. If bases vanished today, there is no feature anyone would miss.
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Says you. Me, I wouldn't agree.
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Seconded. Now that I know how to manipulate the Medbay/Base Portal returns, the Base just got useful again. Helps to have a travel power tho.
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Most base costs can be divided into two groups: decorative/functional and defensive/raidable. The first group would include things like energy, control, workshops, infirmaries, teleporters, and decorative rooms and objects. The second group includes anything dealing with defense, having 'secure' in the name, or deals directly with raids (vaults, IoP mounts, dimensional anchors, etc.). Reduce the cost of the items in the first group dramatically so smaller groups can do something useful and cool with their bases. Leave the costs in the second group at their already obscenely high costs so that people who want to raid actually have to work for it. Sure, the smaller supergroups are going to complain because you promoted the fact that CoV would have bases and raids then disenfranchised a large number of your players by making the costs of everything prohibitively high, but you should have thought of that earlier. At least give them something in return.
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Agreed wholeheartedly, with the exception of the part about raids. I couldn't care less about raidability. I just want the functions that will make life easier for me and my group.
I've been grinding for prestige like crazy, and as of now I am still about 100k short of being able to place a basic worktable. I am getting tired of the grind. As I said in another post, they could end a lot of the frustration in about an afternoon's worth of work. Make the price twin-tiered as you have mentioned here. Let me build my little, functional base and be done with it. Then, if I desire, I can start saving long-term for a bigger plot and/or raidability. I fail to understand how delaying gratification for a big part of your playerbase provides any benefit.
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
Well if any of you that are suffering from little to no prestige are on Virtue hit me up. I might be able to work something out with you. Can't help everyone at once, but as long as you have "active" level 29 and up players we can make it worth your while.
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That's beside the point. As I read the "starter" generator/control suggestion, it's about providing a way for a new sg to get a base that does something (not necessarily everything, for which needing the full-size generator/mainframe is appropriate, just something) without having to spend months raising 3/4 million prestige.
I think that would be a good thing to do. But, then, I think that you should be able to get your base to do something (again, definitely not everything, and maybe not even something useful, just something cool besides sitting there looking pretty) almost immediately after getting it.
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Exactly. Our 4 person SG is about 20k short of a database, currently. After that it's just the workshop and worktable and we're functional. This is with casual play of maybe a month, since we didn't start the SG for a few weeks initially. So the higher prices are not completely unobtainable - it just means we have to wait a while. My suggestion was merely to remove the initial wait, by giving players something they can actually have functional in the base, while they work up to the current "starting" equipment.
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Even with all the transporters, a raid teleprtor, medical reclaimefr and auto doc, there is no real function the base provides. There is no real benefit. If bases vanished today, there is no feature anyone would miss.
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And in the patch after, we'll take away all costume customisation options, since they provide no real benefit, perform no function, and so we feel no one would miss them.
They certainly perform useful functions for me - they keep me entertained. And since that's the whole damn reason I'm playing the game in the first place, I'd say it was mission successful. More things to do is even more entertaining, hence my suggestion for jump starting a base, so players have more options.
What exactly would you define as "a real function" for a base, out of interest?
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Originally Posted by Psychoti
"....so I headbutted the blind chick."
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[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org / xenogamous.com / wytedragon.net / quantam sufficit ]
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Now that I know how to manipulate the Medbay/Base Portal returns, the Base just got useful again. Helps to have a travel power tho.
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Am I correct to read this as saying that you know a way to control (or at least influence) where you arrive in zone when using the medbay? Care to share that information? It seems pretty random to me - sometimes I arrive at the zone's teleport arrival spot, sometimes at the mission door/where I died, and even once hit 'go to base' and immediately appeared outside the mission door without going through the medbay first. If there were a way to control which of those places I'll end up (or even to predict it), I'd be a much happier camper...
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Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.
Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
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I know a lot of people complain that its impossible for a small VG to do anything.
I'm here to dispell that myth.
I have 3 people in my VG. One is level 18, one is level 28, I have a level 38, a level 17, and a level 12.
I got a workshop earlier this week. I ran in VG mode all the time. For those of you who worry about your level 40 SO's, all I can say is I used the respec trick to sell back my old SO's.
So to me, it seems like its timed to give you a workshop after completing roughly one and a half toons. Strange you don't hear complaints it takes months to build a toon, but people say that about bases?
We're over the hump, and to be honest, I'm the only one in my VG that plays everyday. A VG with 5 to 10 people who play like I do would have a huge base. I made probably 70% of the prestige we have by myself.
Also, another misconception. Yes, you do seem to get more prestige at different levels. My level 12 gets like 100-200 prestige for a mish, my level 38 gets like 350-450 a mish.
I average 10K-15K a day myself. My best day was 25K. 10K is easy. 5 people making 10K a day will get you a functional base in 9 days.
Now what I don't understand is why it takes some groups so long. My friend's group has 30 people in it, and they only have a little more money then we do. Granted, I do grind for prestige some nights. I stealth it to the end of the Newspaper mish's, kill the boss, and move to the next mish. I've made as much as 4K an hour doing this solo. In order to jack up the prestige, I have logged in on my other computer with my friend's account, and use his MasterMind as another pet of mine (I have TP other, works great for this).
We're up to 800K now, after a month and a half.
Now, all that being said. If anyone out there is interested in a small VG with a functional base. Let me know. We aren't going to farm noobs for prestige. You'll have a say in things, and you'll have help with your leveling, etc.
We have a robot themed VG, we out to ensure robots have the right to vote (and no one else of course). Any AT is acceptable, as long as it fits in the Robot theme.
My global is @glupo
My cousin joined last night, so we actually have 4 people now, heh heh. The other members are old friends in RL that I've known for 20 years. We're all computer geeks that love Sci-Fi.
Its my hope that my experience might help some of those various small VG's out there struggling with the same issues I am. It is possible to do.
That being said, I guess I'm cool with Statesman changing it to make it easier for us, but after all the hard work I've done, I feel sorta cheated, heh heh...
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I know a lot of people complain that its impossible for a small VG to do anything.
I'm here to dispell that myth.
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I've been complaining that, even with a small group, your base should be able to do something interesting (beyond just looking pretty) shortly after getting it, if not immediately. Your post supports my complaint rather than "dispelling" it.
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So to me, it seems like its timed to give you a workshop after completing roughly one and a half toons. Strange you don't hear complaints it takes months to build a toon, but people say that about bases?
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We're up to 800K now, after a month and a half.
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A character has two powers (four if you count Sprint/Brawl - Rest doesn't come along until level 2) from the instant you create them. A base does absolutely nothing at the start and it takes many, many hours of play accrue enough prestige to get it to do anything. (Except looking pretty, but characters do that at the start, too, in addition to their powers.)
If you had to wait a month and a half for your character to get his first power, then I'm sure people would be complaining about that, too. If you had to "complete" (I assume that means "get to max level") even one character, that would be even worse - can you imagine the uproar if the devs decided that only Kheldians got powers and other ATs had to get by on their looks?
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If you had to wait a month and a half for your character to get his first power, then I'm sure people would be complaining about that, too. If you had to "complete" (I assume that means "get to max level") even one character, that would be even worse - can you imagine the uproar if the devs decided that only Kheldians got powers and other ATs had to get by on their looks?
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Its totally balanced. A small VG with 10 people could have a functional base (ie Workshop or teleporter or infirmary) in 4.5 days (making an easy 10K per player per day). I made this base in a month and a half by myself!
Just crunch some numbers. If you're impatient with the progress, band together with a couple of friends. You don't need 75 people to make a base. I did it with 1...
So if you're gonna try to do it by yourself, be prepared to put some real work into it. If you want a functional base right away, join a big VG. You have options.
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Granted, I do grind for prestige some nights. I stealth it to the end of the Newspaper mish's, kill the boss, and move to the next mish.
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So you're saying all we have to do is use the kind gameplay that resulted in ED?
I'm pretty sure stealthing to the end of a mission, avoiding all the content/mobs leading up to that, and killing the boss just to get the bonus and going to the next mission is the exact kind of thing that will get stealth nerfed by the Devs.
But don't think I'm saying you should stop doing it. Not at all!
Seriously, keep it up and congratz on finding a way around this poor choice in game design when it comes to Base costs.
This kind of gameplay, better than anything else, will show the Devs what small VGs must do to cope with the ridiculous imbalance of base costs.
Statesman will certainly notice when more and more playbers *HAVE* to take steps like this just to use someting that was touted as a truly innovated system in CoV.
It's a pity that people in small VGs can't access that content by simply playing the game *the way the Devs intended*. They need to purposely grind/skip mission content with methods like Reformed is using.
Since we are talking about smaller groups, let me chime in. I have a 3 people VG as well and we are all pretty bummed out about the fact that you ahve to have at least 4 people to run super group missions. Our VG is myself my wife and my nephew, and we really don't want to bring anyone else into the group since it is a "family" thing. I would like to see something along the lines of supergroup missions being avaiable to us in someway that wouldn't involve grabbing random strangers in order to be able to run one. maybe if there is less then 4 members in a VG make it so that all members must be present in order to run one, as long as there is more then just one person in that group or somthing. But it is a real bummer since we were all jazzed about having enough funds to set up and place a SG computer only to find that we couldn't run any of the missions.
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I've been complaining that, even with a small group, your base should be able to do something interesting (beyond just looking pretty) shortly after getting it, if not immediately. Your post supports my complaint rather than "dispelling" it.
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I think this is where a lot of the arguments come from. I don't expect my base to do something except look pretty immediately. It's more than I had before CoV, even if just decorative. And I'm quite happy to wait for everything else, however long it takes.
I do understand your viewpoint, however, and can see why it would be frustrating. Hence my suggestion previously about having "beginner" rooms and items to significantly lower the time to minimal functionality.
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A character has two powers (four if you count Sprint/Brawl - Rest doesn't come along until level 2) from the instant you create them. A base does absolutely nothing at the start and it takes many, many hours of play accrue enough prestige to get it to do anything. (Except looking pretty, but characters do that at the start, too, in addition to their powers.)
If you had to wait a month and a half for your character to get his first power, then I'm sure people would be complaining about that, too. If you had to "complete" (I assume that means "get to max level") even one character, that would be even worse - can you imagine the uproar if the devs decided that only Kheldians got powers and other ATs had to get by on their looks?
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This isn't exactly fair, because there is nothing to do in the game except use your characters powers - it is the point. Bases, however, are an extra, a bonus - therefore there is not quite the same necessity upon them to be interactive from birth. While, yes, I can see it would be nice, it isn't essential.
As I say, hopefully a compromise will be introduced that allows those who want something now to have something, while not taking away the long term goals from those of us who like to have something to look forward to.
Imagine meeting a four man SG, being invited into their base, and finding yourself on the largest plot, with all the fanciest whirlygigs. How impressed would you be? "Wow, these guys having been playing a long time." That's my Vision(tm), and I'd hate to see it cheapened by the high end stuff being easier, just in the name of making the earlier bases quicker to attain. I'm sure there can be a compromise that ensures both desires can be satisfied.
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Originally Posted by Psychoti
"....so I headbutted the blind chick."
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[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org / xenogamous.com / wytedragon.net / quantam sufficit ]
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I've been complaining that, even with a small group, your base should be able to do something interesting (beyond just looking pretty) shortly after getting it, if not immediately.
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I think this is where a lot of the arguments come from. I don't expect my base to do something except look pretty immediately. It's more than I had before CoV, even if just decorative. And I'm quite happy to wait for everything else, however long it takes.
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Initially, I agreed with you. But, after the first day or two, rearranging the furniture lost its appeal and I don't think I've even entered my small sg's base more than once in the last 2 or 3 weeks because, well, yep, it's still there and I can still look at the furniture, but there's nothing else to do in there until the sg's 4 or 5 (not particularly active, aside from me) members come up with another 300k prestige or so.
If the base is going to be purely cosmetic with no interactive features for so long, why is it even available to small sgs, much less advertised as a major feature of CoV?
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I do understand your viewpoint, however, and can see why it would be frustrating. Hence my suggestion previously about having "beginner" rooms and items to significantly lower the time to minimal functionality.
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Yep, and I agree with you completely about the starter versions. If it takes me years to make a huge, defended, raidable base, that's fine. Being able to do everything right away wouldn't leave anywhere to go. But if it can't do anything, what's the point?
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A character has two powers (four if you count Sprint/Brawl - Rest doesn't come along until level 2) from the instant you create them. A base does absolutely nothing at the start and it takes many, many hours of play accrue enough prestige to get it to do anything...
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This isn't exactly fair, because there is nothing to do in the game except use your characters powers - it is the point.
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It's not meant as a general argument for base interactivity, but as a specific response to the argument (which I've seen made at least twice) that bases being immediately functional is analogous to characters being given all their powers at level one. In that context, I think it's fair (or at least as fair as the argument it's intended to refute).
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Imagine meeting a four man SG, being invited into their base, and finding yourself on the largest plot, with all the fanciest whirlygigs. How impressed would you be? "Wow, these guys having been playing a long time." That's my Vision(tm), and I'd hate to see it cheapened by the high end stuff being easier, just in the name of making the earlier bases quicker to attain.
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I absolutely agree about not wanting to see the high-end base facilities cheapened, although I'm cynical enough that my first thought about that hypothetical four-man uberbase might instead be "I wonder how many lowbies they bribed to grind prestige...". 
Here is how i see it, and i think it will help both of the issues recently brought up.
Building a base actually moves along fairly steadily. Depending on how many people in the SG and how active it is, you can afford a new thing every X days. The problem seems to be that in addition to accruing a metric crap ton of prestige you also have to purchase Control and Energy producers.
So for the first how ever long you have to build an Energy room put an energy supply in it. Build a Control room, put a control supply in it. Then you can get something YOU the Character can actually use.
so let see:
Energy room 150k
Control room 150k
Mainframe 150K
Power Crystal150K(i think, cant remember exactly, its been a while)
Thats 600k prestige to save up for something that YOU can click on with an effect.
There are a number of ways to rememdy this IMHO. Perhaps some Aux objects could also have a Primary version. For example Crystal Focus and Terminal could be made into something that simply create energy and control, rather than requiring a much more expensive Primary unit to attach them to.
Anyway, this just seems to be fairly logical to me, the game simply places A LOT of prerequisites on anything base related. Prerequisits that dont seem to add anything to game play other than frustration.
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is the exact kind of thing that will get stealth nerfed by the Devs.
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i dont know about you but i can just run straight to the objectives in nearly every map without using any powers.
I have actually seen things from both sides now. Last month our group was very active and could earn around 100K a day. We quickly built the base and upgraded the plot.
Now between the holidays and exams and people quitting the game we went from haveing 10 people on most of the time to having a couple of people play a couple of hours a day. A good day now is 10K.
I just cant imagine how a small group who just plays a few hours a week can ever get ahead. At this point I dont even know how I will pay rent in couple of weeks
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I have actually seen things from both sides now. Last month our group was very active and could earn around 100K a day. We quickly built the base and upgraded the plot.
Now between the holidays and exams and people quitting the game we went from haveing 10 people on most of the time to having a couple of people play a couple of hours a day. A good day now is 10K.
I just cant imagine how a small group who just plays a few hours a week can ever get ahead. At this point I dont even know how I will pay rent in couple of weeks
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I agree, I just don't want bases to become the Top 5 groups constantly bashing each others base with no options for the common groups out there.
IDEA: I wouldn't mind the bases be actually mission maps with the smaller groups. Say I have large SG and a team of 4 can get a broker mission that attacks the smaller base instead of the bank choice. The Small SG gets a loner item (bank loot, safe,file cabanet, etc) and opens a raid window just like the IOP Bases people. My 4 man team starts at the entrance while the defenders start at the (Item X). Regardless the outcome, boths teams get a mission reward.
ArchRex Dojhrom x ?
* Sidus Loricatus: B-NRG2, S-BS/Reg, T-Fire/Ice, MM-Bots/FF, St-NRG2, Dom-Psi/NRG, Cor-Son/Traps, Cor-Ice/Kin, Ctrl-Fire/Kin, PB-LB/LA
* Arachnos Loricatus: Soldier, Widow
* Praetoria Loricatus: B-DP/Dev, Cor-Elec/Elec
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Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful ...
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I notice that while we might be able to afford a cool 'main large decor' room, we cannot afford the 'space'. The limitations of the grid size/plot is the issue. The cost to upgrade to the next size is utterly ridiculous!!! As it stands the cost of ANYTHING is exorbitant so to charge so much just to upgrade plot size?!?! This must be changed.
Also the cost of the decor only room must be reduced by 90% as it serves no function but to add to the problem I just mentioned.
City of Gaymers on Guildportal.com
http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.asp...3&TabID=295104
Still awaiting details on this...
Yes, our small VG is s till wondering if we will be able to afford a minimal (non-raidable) base. Our salvage runneth over.
"No on moves unless I say so!" Minde Bender 50th LVL Mind/Empath
And a sack of others at 50th
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Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.
Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
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Even if you can afford anything, what purpose does it serve the SG? The zone hospitals are better, they don't drop you in random spots. The zones without hospitals, you're better off traveling, the drop point will be somewhere far too dangerous to return from.
TP room? No use there. You can travel there via "conventional" means easily.
Workshops? With ntons of salvage, we have yet to build anything actually useful.
Bases are for PvPers to fight in a different setting, that's their use.
I'm not going to read all of this, so I'm just going to support what has probably already been said:
1. Stop taxing us in a way that creates, sooner or later, a prestige cap. That's communism. You're not communist, are you statesman?
2. Reward small, highly-active SGs more than enormous SGs with people who are rarely on; a simple time-based formula must assume a worst-case scenario (people who play long hours in huge SGs), and the result is inflated prices. (just look at the prices now... *cough*)
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once you get beyond a couple of starter rooms, control and power will go pretty quickly... add a mission computer, medical stuff, raid teleport, zone telepads etc and you will see control just vanish.
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That's beside the point. As I read the "starter" generator/control suggestion, it's about providing a way for a new sg to get a base that does something (not necessarily everything, for which needing the full-size generator/mainframe is appropriate, just something) without having to spend months raising 3/4 million prestige.
I think that would be a good thing to do. But, then, I think that you should be able to get your base to do something (again, definitely not everything, and maybe not even something useful, just something cool besides sitting there looking pretty) almost immediately after getting it.