Speaking of the prestige lowering when in a group. I was helping a Lvl 1 newbie in my SG. He exemplared me down to his level and started his newbie missins... end of the missions I got 250+ prestige each but the most he got at the end was the first one with a whole 10 prestige. Explain that one!
Kyle
Do we have barstools? Barstools would be nice.
Other than walls and doors (real ones), I think barstools is my #1 request. Most of the bases I design have bars - just no barstools. The bar looks....akward.
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
[ QUOTE ]
Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.
Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right now - I'd appreciate it if ANY Sized SG could have something useful to show for their efforts.
Jack... you know I love ya (in a purely manly way) - but this whole SG Base Construction issue has finally tripped my buttons. I'll support you and your decisions - because I love the game. But as one of the leaders of a very large family of SG's - so far bases have been a waste of our time, effort and energy - and a dismal failure.
There is not ONE device currently which we've purchased with our hard won prestige that justifies the cost of them - not ONE.
We have teleporters - which only go to hazard zones and tend to often drop us in mid air, causing damage to our lower level toons and sometimes ... dropping us into nests of villians. How exactly would you classify that Jack? As a "Useful" item? Sure - it works sometimes ... and sometimes ... it'll get you killed. That's useful.
Reclaimators - these - I used to like a little. Sure - initially they only give you 25% of the health of a hospital - but it was nice they'd drop you at the door of the mission you died. This is no longer the case seemingly - so - what's the point? If I don't save on the run time to get to the mission - I may as well just go to the hospital. --- Oh -- but you point out in many hazard zones there are no hospitals! -- Yes --- but I point out --- making us run allll the way through a hot zone to get back to the mission with 25% of our health... isn't "Useful".
SG Mission Computer - ahem... call me when it actually DOES something.
Let's see... what other things do bases do that are useful? Oh... right - we can build things in the workshop ... things Which Don't Work And Cost More Money Than A Gold Plated Out House And Are Almost As Useful!!
Listen - you want to tell me there's useful stuff in the base?
Make it actually Useful to my SG. Make it offer some benefit they do not get from just doing it the same old way. Otherwise -- do not use the word "Useful" in conjunction with bases around me.
It just runs up my blood pressure when I think of how many hours I've asked people to push for this item or that - only to tell them "Hey... umm... uh... it doesn't really work so hot..." after we get it installed.
Like I said Jack - love ya, love the game - but just like you I have people I have to answer to in this game. You're putting me in a bad spot... make me proud an tell me there's actually stuff going into bases that everyone can afford - that actually has some merit other than a "pretty" bit of eye candy that cost a fortune.
Now... please tell me there's actually going to be some kind of actually USEFUL features to these bases??? And please do not tell me PvP it's yet another PvP feature. My Reclaimator only heals to 25% and my blood pressure won't hold if you do.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.
Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right now - I'd appreciate it if ANY Sized SG could have something useful to show for their efforts.
Jack... you know I love ya (in a purely manly way) - but this whole SG Base Construction issue has finally tripped my buttons. I'll support you and your decisions - because I love the game. But as one of the leaders of a very large family of SG's - so far bases have been a waste of our time, effort and energy - and a dismal failure.
There is not ONE device currently which we've purchased with our hard won prestige that justifies the cost of them - not ONE.
We have teleporters - which only go to hazard zones and tend to often drop us in mid air, causing damage to our lower level toons and sometimes ... dropping us into nests of villians. How exactly would you classify that Jack? As a "Useful" item? Sure - it works sometimes ... and sometimes ... it'll get you killed. That's useful.
Reclaimators - these - I used to like a little. Sure - initially they only give you 25% of the health of a hospital - but it was nice they'd drop you at the door of the mission you died. This is no longer the case seemingly - so - what's the point? If I don't save on the run time to get to the mission - I may as well just go to the hospital. --- Oh -- but you point out in many hazard zones there are no hospitals! -- Yes --- but I point out --- making us run allll the way through a hot zone to get back to the mission with 25% of our health... isn't "Useful".
SG Mission Computer - ahem... call me when it actually DOES something.
Let's see... what other things do bases do that are useful? Oh... right - we can build things in the workshop ... things Which Don't Work And Cost More Money Than A Gold Plated Out House And Are Almost As Useful!!
Listen - you want to tell me there's useful stuff in the base?
Make it actually Useful to my SG. Make it offer some benefit they do not get from just doing it the same old way. Otherwise -- do not use the word "Useful" in conjunction with bases around me.
It just runs up my blood pressure when I think of how many hours I've asked people to push for this item or that - only to tell them "Hey... umm... uh... it doesn't really work so hot..." after we get it installed.
Like I said Jack - love ya, love the game - but just like you I have people I have to answer to in this game. You're putting me in a bad spot... make me proud an tell me there's actually stuff going into bases that everyone can afford - that actually has some merit other than a "pretty" bit of eye candy that cost a fortune.
Now... please tell me there's actually going to be some kind of actually USEFUL features to these bases??? And please do not tell me PvP it's yet another PvP feature. My Reclaimator only heals to 25% and my blood pressure won't hold if you do.
[/ QUOTE ]
My thoughts on the issue right there, thanks for saving me the time and finger ache.
But im really glad a red name has commented on this FINALLY. Take that for all you people who were saying things were fine as they were.
And I also commend him for saying something and the offer of helping the Sm-Med SG's.
My point is not that bases are foundless or useless - just we put in the time and the effort - in many of our cases, millions worth of prestige which is earned slowly - the larger of the SGs not getting the advantages that smaller SG's do in that we have a cap limit, and it's only fair that the things we put into the Base should be of use to us.
As is - they aren't. I know that Jack and the Devs will get them going but this is very disapointing that they pushed this out with so much broken. It really deflates morale and is painful to many that the effort they put in is not rewarded in any form that is of use to them.
It's bad enough that the non-CoVers get no rewards for their efforts - but to put in the effort for your fellow team mates and discover that the effort is for items which are of no real practical use on a consistent basis is flat out mean.
[ QUOTE ]
You small groups should stop whining... a three man group isnt an SG its a TEAM!!
[/ QUOTE ]
And what of grops like the Shadow Coalition (we have our own Forum, too!) ...? We're some 15 members strong, discounting multiple alts in the group. Far mroe than a team, far FAR short of the membership cap.
And let's see, comics examples of less-than-seventy-odd-member Super Groups:
[*] Teen Titans (5 members)[*] The Fantastic Four (well, gee ...)[*] The New Warriors (6 members)[*] The New Mutants (9 core members, IIRC)
[ QUOTE ]
Small groups should not benefit as much as large groups, not even for the PvE effects because honestly they havn't worked for it like our larger SG has.
[/ QUOTE ]
You haven't put ANY more work into your SG's base, than *I* have put into *my* SG's base. You just had more people putting work IN, at all.
Guys, can we just ignore the debate about small SGs? Statesman said they're going to work on it, so that's all that matters.
There are people who want to argue about anything. Instead of talking about whether or not we should be talking about small SGs, let's just talk about small SGs.
[ QUOTE ]
Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.
Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.
[/ QUOTE ]
What about this solution:
Give SGs the 36 million that we had during beta and that we receive currently on test. This is easily implemented, everyone gets to enjoy the content, and we can really start pushing the base raid system to see how it will truly work.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
I dunno, 36M is a bit much, IMO.
A starting amount of, say ... 500K? And up the per-member bonus for the first fifteen members to 50K or 100K each? That would certainly help, a LOT. In the short run. But I'd prefer a long-run solution to a short-term bandaid.
[ QUOTE ]
And let's see, comics examples of less-than-seventy-odd-member Super Groups:
[*] Teen Titans (5 members)[*] The Fantastic Four (well, gee ...)[*] The New Warriors (6 members)[*] The New Mutants (9 core members, IIRC)
[/ QUOTE ]
And don't forget Superman and Batman, both one strong and had some of the best bases going. I know I know, Robin, but Bruce had the Batcave before he had Robin so Robin don't count.
Kyle
[ QUOTE ]
And let's see, comics examples of less-than-seventy-odd-member Super Groups:
[*] Teen Titans (5 members)[*] The Fantastic Four (well, gee ...)[*] The New Warriors (6 members)[*] The New Mutants (9 core members, IIRC)
[/ QUOTE ]
Titans have had over 60 members over the years... the Fantastic "Four" - has included everyone from Spiderman to the their Mailman as 'official' members - The New Warriors ... dunno it's not a classic title so not one I read - New Mutants have had an entire schools worth.
If we're going to compare titles to CoH you're wasting your time. We can emulate all we want but we are NONE of these and I suggest if you want a large SG you get them out of your head and concentrate on pleasing your members through being there for them and teaming.
That - more than anything will determine the size of your SG. To be a hero is to be there for people - SG members or people in general. Most SG's fall apart due to a lack of commitment not to the SG but to it's membership.
If you only want a small SG - then keep in mind that Batman, although a singular hero - is both insanely wealthy and has had years to build that ultra cool base. In the early days the batcave was nothing more than an underground garage.
Supermans Fortress of Solitude - has similarly had years to build up - and is owned by the most powerful being on the planet with people owing him favors going back over 70 years. Of course it's going to be packed.
The Fantastic Four - have Government and corporate sponsors.
Spiderman ... has a closet. Keep it in perspective.
If they were serious bout all of this balance on SG bases - then they'd dump the costs of crafting items from salvage and costing you prestige to place them. They'd have most - if not all items made from salvage - and salvage drops would be rare and from AV's or the like - so that building them required combined efforts and took time. And the more dangerous missions you ran - and the longer you've been as a particular toon - the more likely you'd be offered Government or Corporate Sponsorships. We'd also be given the option to make fortunes on our own - through "day jobs" - and use that to build up our bases.
In order to build the ultra-cool or neat-o toys in bases - you'd need to go to the universities and build up skills in technology and the like - get your degrees and invent your own crap. You'd need to have skilled (educated or skilled) Healers for your medical units - engineers for power and control, physicists for weapons and teleporters. You'd need massive tanks and blasters to carve your base rooms out - or diplomats and businessmen to purchase your rooms. It would possibly be cool - but it would take the kind of commitement that only a handful of SGs have to actually pull it off.
That would be a comparable situation to the comics.
I got a couple PM's from people - so thought I'd make my thoughts actually clear on some things I've said here.
First off - in no way do I want people to think that the Devs and Jack have not done "enough" on the over all subject of Bases.
Just having them is great, and a big "Yea!" to all those who brought them to us this far - is in order.
What my complaint is - and it's the same one I'm hearing from other SG heads, and the same one I'm hearing from members is in essence...
"Great, we just spent the last week of our lives busting butt to get this - and it does what for us??? Why did I bother??"
As pointed out in a previous post - NONE of the things we've worked very hard for - work as described - or more accurately - as expected. The hype - does not live up to the reward when you finally get it.
This is due to broken items - such as the SG Mission Computer, which I suspect - is going to be more of a pain than it's worth to actually accomplish the trials that it's offering - especially the IoP, which from what I can see will be more bragging rights than useful. With only a 1% boost - or 5% boost depending on who you talk to - and only 2 months to keep, and the weekly damage to your base from every other SG out there trying to get at it - I can't justify that effort to my people. Once or twice for bragging rights - but after that - it's just a waste of prestige needed to rebuild the base after a raid.
It is due to items which work - like the Reclaimators and the TP units - but offer to be honest a double edged sword of value. A good example is the Reclaimators - now that they no longer drop you at mission doors - I'm recomending in most cases for my lower level sg members who do not have travel - to just go to the hospital.
The risk of running across a zone is not justified with reduced health. Until we get the SG Healing badge - which those of you with small to medium SG's I don't see happening very quickly (probably 3-9 months) it's usefulness is very very limited.
The TP units? I know from personal experience about 1 out of every 5-6 uses - does in fact drop me in mid-air in the hollows with a drop that does from 80-120 pts of damage. Now when I hit - I have personally landed in a group of CoT which promptly mezzed me and killed me. This is not useful.
The Workshop system is out of wack for small groups - and in some ways for larger groups as well. Salvage comes in faster than we can afford to incorporate build items into the bases. Those items which we build we are in effect billed for 3 times - once in effort to get the salvage, again in the cost of deploying the item (effectively purchasing it) and again in the form of rent because our rent goes up based on the valuation of the base - bigger items - bigger rooms - more rent.
That's just obscene. I know it's been argued that eventually an SG will no longer be able to add items due to the cost of rent coming in. By numbers - this is not the case, but it will create a rent level that is certainly prohibitive. Once again - this is insane.
We are talking about SG bases. We are not talking about powersets here. We are not talking about giving a player an unfair advantage over another - with the exception that those in an SG have an advantage over those who do not. But that has nothing to do with size of an SG and bases. Anyone - in any SG has an advantage over a non-SG member in this game merely because they can call on them and team with them more easily.
The concept of reward vs. risk - is out of wack with Bases. The reward recieved in prestige - whether we get too much or too little I won't argue.
But what we do - once we've recieved that reward - should not be tainted by the fact that all items we recieve are of little use. The analogy made earlier - that essentially most of the "useful" items in the base are akin to Carnival prizes, easily broken, often cheap and flawed, but eye candy is pretty much dead on.
When I spend money - in the name of others I have a responsiblity to do so wisely. To demand quality and useful return for my expenditures in the name of my group.
That is all I'm doing. Requiring that the devs go back - and revisit the actual usefulness of each item - and realise that the cost to produce or procure that item was in man hours of dozens of people - or a few people with hundreds of hours of play. Risk vs. Reward.
Did those hundreds of hours of play - justify the expense? What value add did it give us which we do not already have? Is there an additional cost in terms of risk associated with the use of it?
Those are the questions the devs need to keep in mind - and balance with the goal of a slow progression on a base. Is the return to the player who has invested time and effort sufficient for them to justify that effort for a bauble??
Keep in mind - the devs have had these for months. They're used to them. They didn't have to burn hours to get them. They know the final outcome. I think that in the end - each item will prove it's worth. But most players will not stick around to see that. Most will look at the hours they've invested and say, "There comes a time when you're just being a damned fool and wasting effort to that goal when I have other goals I want to attain.", and move on.
I agree with november... those are some great ideas...
But as for all the rest of you Im standing by my statement that a 5 man TEAM is not a full GROUP
A supergroup is on ORGANIZATION and a COMMUNITY we have a core of players in our SG who team regularly, but we also keep a rotation of lower levels that are welcome to join us, even if we dont know them that well.. people get kicked for innactivity and others get invited because our ranks are empty. Noobs who show their loyalty and stick with our group into the higher levels eventualy gain rank and become closer to our core group. Other people run small 4 or 5 man teams while we play. At any given time we may have up to 5 or 6 individual teams running within our sg. If anyone needs help with an archvillain, hero, or elite boss nobody is afraid to call it out over SG chat. In a matter of minutes they have a full team ready for any objective. Small SGs cant possibly be self reliant. They should just wait till appartments and leave it at that. Larger SGs are the only ones with the manpower and managment skills to efficiantly operate truly memorable pvp events, like a decent guild war. All these small, team-like SGs should stick to themselves and stop whining to the devs that "this game is too haaarddddd... make it easier for us little groups.... cause we dont want to have to deal with anyone other than ourselfes, much less behave like a real SG would." Grow a spine people. If you want a good sg base (even though right now the only reason to have one is pvp) get up, make your guild great, AND EARN ONE. AND FOR THE LOVE OF ALL MMOs STOP MAKING COMPARISONS TO BATMAN AND THE LIKE. This is NOT a comic book, its a Super Hero/Villain THEMED MMO! It will NOT behave like a commic book but RATHER more LIKE an MMO. Go to most other games and you will not hear of small SGs becoming great, simply because "batman could do it so we should be able to also." Take a step back and look at what your playing, your not living a comic book, your PLAYING a MMORPG. For you roleplayers out there I apologize, you may want to live a comic book, but that is mostly unrelated to the topic at hand, which is PvP and the size of super groups.
One last thing.. Small Sgs wanting Large SG equipment should just close their mouths and wait. The PvE content of SG bases is not only underpowered, but definatly overvalued. The respawn features are weak and teleporters are only good for crossin large zone gaps (ex. from nerva to port oaks). Since IoPs are still currently not live maybe you guys should start complaining about them.. because thats what you really want. PvE support and stat bonuses.. not the functional base you need for pvp.
This might be somewhere else in the thread, but it was going to take me a long time to read all of it (props to devs that actually wade through all of this stuff).
Two suggestions:
1. New base item: salvage cabinet. Holds up to 1000 (or different numbers of each salvage item). This provides an easy way for groups to aggregate their salvage.
2. New base item/feature that requires no power or control and can be placed in your base entrance. There would be at least two (but possibly more) different versions. One would allow you to participate in raids and acquire items of power. The other would reduce prestige cost of items in the base.
It could scale prestige costs by group size. This might take some trickiness to rescale costs of existing items if group size grows significantly (it should probably be tiered). Alternatively, it could just do a flat reduction on cost of building certain key base features (control, power, worktables). Basically, some way to encheapen the core base building for non-raid/non-iop groups.
Also, slightly related, based on my experience in Beta, where you could buy them, IOPs need to double their benefit from 1% each to 2% each, still capping at 5 (10%). I seriously question that anyone is going to care that much about IOPs at 1% each.
Extending the #2 above, other versions of the (one-per-entrance) item ("entrance arch" maybe?) could provide small team-wide buffs instead of encheapening. I'd expect complaints from raid/iop groups though, unless of course IOPs got buffed (as above) and the entrance items provided a smaller buff (and you can only have one of them).
This would provide a number of ways for bases to feel more useful to small SGs.
Wow, for someone that seems to completely dismiss small groups, you sure seem to think you know their needs and desires. Let's look at some of your points:
[ QUOTE ]
But as for all the rest of you Im standing by my statement that a 5 man TEAM is not a full GROUP
[/ QUOTE ]
Great. You can stand by your toilet for all I care. Your opinion is just that - an opinion. Equally valid/invalid as anyone else's.
[ QUOTE ]
A supergroup is on ORGANIZATION and a COMMUNITY we have a core of players in our SG who team regularly,
[/ QUOTE ]
Amazing. So, what exactly is the minimum number to have an ORGANIZATION or COMMUNITY (not sure why you went all-caps there)? My small group of seven players is a community as well. People that like to play together. We are organized. We communicate outside of the game. Do you do that with the members of your group that you don't know so well? I would think that high levels of communication is an inherent attribute of a community.
[ QUOTE ]
but we also keep a rotation of lower levels that are welcome to join us, even if we dont know them that well.. people get kicked for innactivity and others get invited because our ranks are empty. Noobs who show their loyalty and stick with our group into the higher levels eventualy gain rank and become closer to our core group. Other people run small 4 or 5 man teams while we play. At any given time we may have up to 5 or 6 individual teams running within our sg. If anyone needs help with an archvillain, hero, or elite boss nobody is afraid to call it out over SG chat. In a matter of minutes they have a full team ready for any objective.
[/ QUOTE ]
What you've described here fits with my group as well. Assuming that you need large numbers of people to fulfill these same roles is just naive on your part.
[ QUOTE ]
Small SGs cant possibly be self reliant.
[/ QUOTE ]
Incorrect!
[ QUOTE ]
They should just wait till appartments and leave it at that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why? Because some how my $50 is worth less than yours? I don't mind having to wait a little longer to get a functional base, but completely missing out while waiting for "apartments" is not acceptable. I didn't pay for an apartment "that is coming soon". I paid for a base. I suspect that I will have enough prestige to get the small, functional base that I want in about a month or so. If I have to wait that long, then so be it. It will be worth the wait if I can avoid forming a large, bland group of strangers and avoid the risk of having members with your attitude.
[ QUOTE ]
Larger SGs are the only ones with the manpower and managment skills to efficiantly operate truly memorable pvp events, like a decent guild war.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you assume I care about PvP? Once again, you stand incorrect!
[ QUOTE ]
All these small, team-like SGs should stick to themselves
[/ QUOTE ]
To avoid others like yourself? Gladly! That's why I prefer to play the way that I am. I'm happy that we agree on this point.
[ QUOTE ]
and stop whining to the devs that "this game is too haaarddddd... make it easier for us little groups....
[/ QUOTE ]
Incorrect again! Wow, you're on a roll! The game is not hard. And we're not asking for easier - just fair. You know, kind of like how minorities always seem to want equal rights? Funny how the "big guy" is always convinved that the "little guy" should just suck it up and deal with it. I wonder if you would feel the same way if someone was telling you how to act or feel.
[ QUOTE ]
cause we dont want to have to deal with anyone other than ourselfes, much less behave like a real SG would."
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah yes, I see your opinion creeping back in here. Be careful of the word "real" here. It indicates that you are not terribly wise.
[ QUOTE ]
Grow a spine people.
[/ QUOTE ]
And this confirms it.
[ QUOTE ]
If you want a good sg base (even though right now the only reason to have one is pvp)
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, so now you are telling me how I think. Let me clue you in here. You are, once again, incorrect.
[ QUOTE ]
get up
[/ QUOTE ]
Done.
[ QUOTE ]
make your guild great
[/ QUOTE ]
Assuming I played WoW, I would. My supergroup IS great. Thanks for your concern.
[ QUOTE ]
AND EARN ONE.
[/ QUOTE ]
Too late! Already doing so.
[ QUOTE ]
AND FOR THE LOVE OF ALL MMOs STOP MAKING COMPARISONS TO BATMAN AND THE LIKE. This is NOT a comic book, its a Super Hero/Villain THEMED MMO!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it is a superhero-themed MMORPG. And therefore it should be as like a comic book in as many ways as possible. Just because it is a game does not mean that shouldn't be like the genre it emulates - in fact, just the opposite.
[ QUOTE ]
It will NOT behave like a commic book but RATHER more LIKE an MMO.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am not sure what your point is here. Is there some set of rules somewhere that indicate what an MMORPG is supposed to be?
[ QUOTE ]
Go to most other games and you will not hear of small SGs becoming great, simply because "batman could do it so we should be able to also."
[/ QUOTE ]
So because of the way it is in other games we should limit ourselves as well? How small your thoughts must be.
[ QUOTE ]
Take a step back and look at what your playing, your not living a comic book, your PLAYING a MMORPG.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, because we are playing a comic book themed MMORPG we should expect it to not play like a comic book. Again, the point you are making makes little sense to me.
[ QUOTE ]
For you roleplayers out there I apologize, you may want to live a comic book, but that is mostly unrelated to the topic at hand, which is PvP and the size of super groups.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the topic at hand is making base construction and use more fair for the small groups. Apparently the topic at hand for you IS PvP. Enjoy PvP if you wish. I don't care a bit about it.
[ QUOTE ]
One last thing.. Small Sgs wanting Large SG equipment
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what you mean by "large SG" equipment. All I need is the basics. If you want to grind away for months just to get the next best thing so you can be "uber" then go for it. Again, not interested.
[ QUOTE ]
should just close their mouths and wait.
[/ QUOTE ]
What are you, ten years old? It's always easier to tell others what to do and how to do it when you already have what you want. Grow up.
[ QUOTE ]
The PvE content of SG bases is not only underpowered, but definatly overvalued. The respawn features are weak and teleporters are only good for crossin large zone gaps (ex. from nerva to port oaks).
[/ QUOTE ]
So don't use them. They would be useful for my group. Plus, I expect that there will be some changes for these items.
[ QUOTE ]
Since IoPs are still currently not live maybe you guys should start complaining about them.. because thats what you really want.
[/ QUOTE ]
Incorrect again! I couldn't care less about IoPs. Seems like a big waste of time and resources for such a little return. 1%? Who cares?
[ QUOTE ]
PvE support and stat bonuses.. not the functional base you need for pvp.
[/ QUOTE ]
Was there a point in that fragment? Again, completely uninterested in PvP. If you have trouble with that concept, then I suggest you stop assuming that every SG wants the same thing yours does. Also, you should stop speaking for those that know better about what they want than you do.
Enjoy your big supergroup. I'll continue to enjoy my small supergroup, and continue to lobby for a bit more equality in the considerations for both. I pay the same monthly fee as you do.
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
[ QUOTE ]
Two suggestions:
1. New base item: salvage cabinet. Holds up to 1000 (or different numbers of each salvage item). This provides an easy way for groups to aggregate their salvage.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a great idea. I would love to see something like this.
[ QUOTE ]
2. New base item/feature that requires no power or control and can be placed in your base entrance. There would be at least two (but possibly more) different versions. One would allow you to participate in raids and acquire items of power. The other would reduce prestige cost of items in the base.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is the same as picking an option at the beginning of base construction for PvE or PvP. PvE bases should be much cheaper, and somewhat more limited in size options. I can live with the 8x8 plot (although 10x10 would have been better). I don't need a "massive secure complex" for my PvE needs.
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And let's see, comics examples of less-than-seventy-odd-member Super Groups:
[*] Teen Titans (5 members)[*] The Fantastic Four (well, gee ...)[*] The New Warriors (6 members)[*] The New Mutants (9 core members, IIRC)
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Titans have had over 60 members over the years...
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Not at once. Not at PRESENT, especially.
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the Fantastic "Four" - has included everyone from Spiderman to the their Mailman as 'official' members
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I don't count "crossovers" as "being a full-fledged member". SGs team with non-SG heroes all the time, in comics and in COH/V.
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The New Warriors ... dunno it's not a classic title so not one I read - New Mutants have had an entire schools worth.
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Check that site out; there were something over 150 issues in total when the series ran in the 90's ... and there are STILL fans.
While we're at it, let's add Gen13 to the list of under-bazillion--members SGs.
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We can emulate all we want but we are NONE of these and I suggest if you want a large SG you get them out of your head and concentrate on pleasing your members through being there for them and teaming.
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That presupposes that I *WANT* a large SG. I don't. 10-20 members is just FINE by me.
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If you only want a small SG - then keep in mind that Batman, although a singular hero - is both insanely wealthy and has had years to build that ultra cool base. In the early days the batcave was nothing more than an underground garage.
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Batman (even the Dynamic Duo together), I don't count as an SG.
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Supermans Fortress of Solitude - has similarly had years to build up - and is owned by the most powerful being on the planet with people owing him favors going back over 70 years. Of course it's going to be packed.
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Superman is not an SG unto himself.
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The Fantastic Four - have Government and corporate sponsors.
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Heroes: Paragon City and Hero Corps.
Villains: Arachnos.
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Spiderman ... has a closet. Keep it in perspective.
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For the old TV series, "Spiderman and his Mazing Friends", the trio of Spiderman, Iceman, and Firestar had a pretty well-equipped apartment, actually. SG Mission Computer in the living room, at the very least.
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But as for all the rest of you Im standing by my statement that a 5 man TEAM is not a full GROUP
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The game code would seem to think otherwise.
And my currently TWENTY-person villain group definitely feels the pinch of "excessive costs". We're a SMALL group, but were not a "5-person team".
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Small SGs cant possibly be self reliant.
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Before I can blow this one out of the water, you will have to define "self reliant".
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Larger SGs are the only ones with the manpower and managment skills to efficiantly operate truly memorable pvp events, like a decent guild war.
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This presupposes that a small SG which wants functioning workshops and an infirmary has ANY desire to go PvP.
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AND FOR THE LOVE OF ALL MMOs STOP MAKING COMPARISONS TO BATMAN AND THE LIKE. This is NOT a comic book, its a Super Hero/Villain THEMED MMO! It will NOT behave like a commic book but RATHER more LIKE an MMO.
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Go back to EQ or WoW where guilds work the way you like, then. *I* wasn't the one that said "no comic-booksupergroup ever had less than seventy-odd members".
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which is PvP and the size of super groups.
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Again with the insistance that PvP has anythign to do with it, except in a tangential fashion.
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The PvE content of SG bases is not only underpowered, but definatly overvalued.
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No, it' snot overvalued. It's just overPRICED.
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Since IoPs are still currently not live maybe you guys should start complaining about them.. because thats what you really want.
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No, they're not. I don't give a flying f**k about IoPs; I just want my group's workshop to be fully-functional, and to have a working infirmary. Maybe to be able to afford some purely-decorative areas for some RPing, as well. But not IoPs.
Just because batman and superman wear alone for the most part doesn't mean they weren't a SG. I had an SG with just one of my characters for awhile and then made more characters and added them into it. SGs can have one person in it.
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How about lowering the price on the smaller decorative rooms. It's nice that you can get a gigantic decorative room for 150k. However, the smallest one *also* being 150k is pretty useless. Any sane person would just use a control room for 100k instead. Make the smallest decorative room 50k and it becomes useful.
Pax, first of all - don't confuse me with the gentle person posting that a team of 5 is not an SG. - Let me rephrase that again ... 5 people can be an SG.
5 people can be - an SG.
I personally have - in addition to the 3 SG's which are quite large - some at the cap - a 3 man SG of my own as well. I do understand the needs and wants of a 3 man SG - their purpose and the desire for some people to keep an SG small.
I'm good with all of that. I support them - and feel that either way - small, medium or large - an SG is a grouping of people who when they get a base - deserve to have the things inside it provide value for the time, effort and energy they expend.
These things - and the effort used to produce them - should be in balance. If a group of 3, or a group of 30, puts in the man hours, death and debt - to obtain a Medical Bay with Reclaimators - then they should at least provide a level of functionality which is on par with the hospital.
I'm not saying they should heal like the the hospital - I'm saying if the units (which originally had a lot of weird bugs - I myself watched a couple SG mates use them and arrive dead needing to be rez'd in the base) - which - btw - still can happen)... if those units do not provide me with some reason that is equal to or superior to going to the hospital why should I spend the hard earned hours we've put into them for that??
The same goes for every other item. If all SG bases are is eye candy then I'm having a hard time justifying to people over level 35 to not just suck up influence and help out those under that level.
The balance that everyone seems to be seeking isn't between big SG's and smaller ones - it's between the level of Risk vs Reward that the Devs always talk about.
Is our risk - justification for the reward we recieve? That - I believe - is the real issue we need to address.
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I dunno, 36M is a bit much, IMO.
A starting amount of, say ... 500K? And up the per-member bonus for the first fifteen members to 50K or 100K each? That would certainly help, a LOT. In the short run. But I'd prefer a long-run solution to a short-term bandaid.
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The high prestige grant would end threads like this and make the game more fun, which is why we are all here in the first place. We would have alot more options for fun with high prestige than low, IMO. It also solves the issue of small to large SGs that is fair for everyone. We aren't here to turn base making into a job, which is what the current system really does. I'd rather have more fun than less, wouldn't you?
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
It's also not going to happen. There's a chance they may give us something, but nothing like that.
I *like* having a progression on my base. I like coming in every couple of days and seeing something new. It's cool to see progress. 36 million is enough so that quite a lot of people would never need any more than that.
The rate that we can upgrade our bases could use some tweaking. At 150k, a moderate sized SG can add a room every few days, then hit a wall for several weeks when they need 1.6million for a new plot. That could be evened out a bit.
There's nothing for a small SG to do inbetween building rooms. They could add more stuff in that area.
Just giving us all 36million Prestige is like starting every character at level 20. Those first 20 levels aren't perfect, I certainly wouldn't mind having a travel power for them, but I don't want to skip them completely. Superbases are the same way, the system needs some tweaking, but the early stages shouldn't completely go away.
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2) Fix the prestige bug when teaming. Why do I get more prestige per mob when soloing than I do in a team (by double or triple)? I get an xp multiplier when in a team, why not a prestige multiplier when in a team with people who are in SG mode?
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Heck, why do they have to be in the same SG? Why not just make it a bit easier to earn Prestige in a team period?
After all, we don't want to make it even harder to find PUGs, do we?