If defenders and controllers didn't have debuffs the fact tanks can reach higher numbers might matter more. But they do and so even with tankers reaching higher resist numbers it matters much less because defenders/controllers can defbuff the same for both a team with a tank or without.
[ QUOTE ]
Re (1): doesn't matter, Defender and Controller buffs are so strong, and the differnece between Scrappers and Tankers defenses is so narrow that when viewed in terms of buffs that can be applied, the difference becomes a non-issue. When it takes just as much buffing and/or healing to keep a Scrapper alive to accomplish the same task, which is where the game is right now, the difference in initial values and caps become meaningless. So the Scrapper becomes the better choice because they can contribute more damage.
Re (2): But the question isn't does he manage agro better, it becomes does the fact that the Tanker can manage agro better matter. And the answer again is the fact that he can becomes meaningless.
It is true that pre-I5 a Tanker may have overshadowed both Controllers and Defenders too much. But now Controllers and Defenders overshadow Tankers too much, and are also capable of making other ATs overshadow Tankers too much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hear, Hear!
The Dark Blade
"I've felt your mouse on me before, you perv...." - Troy Hickman
Paragon Wiki
[ QUOTE ]
So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure a tanker is better at tanking than anyone else. On the tanking scale of 1-100 a tanker is 100. A scrapper probably comes in at around 70. The problem, Statesman, is that for 90% of the game you only need someone that can tank at 65.
Outside of a handful of situations the tankers ability to hold aggro is not a large enough benefit to outweigh the fact that another AT receiving the same support the tanker would need will bring more to the team.
Now if the two points you brought up, higher base numbers (which is laughable by the way) and better aggro control were more in demand you might have something worthwhile there.
Oh well, you've always missed the forest for trees when it came to tankers. I guess we'll have to wait a month or two for datamining to once again point out what we are telling you now.
[ QUOTE ]
Here's the problem that I see. On heroic in a 5 man team during our testing I really didn't see the need for anyone to "tank" for the team.
[/ QUOTE ]
On Heroic, even with 5 people, there's barely a need for anyone other than the mission-owner and a buddy. I think higher difficulty settings for your missions really do make the game more fun.
Anyway, how about this:
Heals generating aggro.
Is that crazy?
I'm just wondering if the problem could be that the people who should need a tank most just.. well, don't need one?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His one posted test involved using the broken version of Invincibility. He also completely glosses over the fact that when buffed, any AT can Tank, so what then is so special about Tanks?
[/ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition. So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker. Why? Because 1) a Tanker starts with higher resistances/defenses and 2) he has Punchvoke and thus can manage the aggro better.
[/ QUOTE ]
If that is your goal why do you keep ignoring the fact that tanks in situations where tanks "might" be useful, need support. Yet that same support is more than adequate to let any damage dealer fill in the tank role?
I see this every time I play my defender. The tank need the exact same amount of support as the scrapper. Therefore the tank is detrimental to a team.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
[ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition.
[/ QUOTE ]
WHAT!?!?!
I'm not even sure where to begin with his utterly absurd statement.
If that's the goal, you missed it by miles. You've created a sense of "balance" where if you don't have an absolutely ideal team composition, you'll get hosed. Your explanation then goes on to explain how any team can be "ideal" ONLY WHEN YOU HAVE DEFENDERS present.
And what good is "punchvoke" when he can't take the damage it brings down on him??
GAH!
What game are you playing Jack? It's not the same one.
--
My AE Story Arcs:
Family Matters - 82136
Well, thank you for taking the time to post (no sarcasm intended). I was hoping a dev would throw his 2 infl in.
Having read the arguments (and there are a TON of posts), there is a wide spectrum of positions, from the mechanical ("increase non-S/L resists to 15 or 20%") to the existential ("do tankers have a role?" "do other AT bring more to the table?").
I say this bc your post is a simple response to a VERY multi-faceted concern (of which admittedly not all tankers agree). Would it be helpful if a summary is provided?
Let me just say, as a new tanker (of 4 months), your "Strongmen" post was disheartening bc that is not the way I tank. I do not choose targets based on dmg type. I choose them based on level of lethality to the team. While I don't have to hold all the aggro, I should hold aggro of the strongest mobs bc I am (should be) the toughest AT and should be able to take the punishment until my team defeats em.
I'm not saying tankers should be impossible to defeat. I am saying that, when facing non-S/L foes, I shouldn't be a squishy (baring psi of course).
(oh, and my experience is with and my comments targeted toward invul).
Well, I've played my MA/SR a lot lately, and since I6/ED I have noticed that Tanks have been taken down a pretty noticable notch. Whereas on teams before I never had to directly support the tank to keep him/her alive, nowadays I find myself using Dragon's Tail to knockdown the mob around the Tanker and then focusing on a particularly troublesome enemy (usually a Boss) to take some heat off the Tanker. In many groups, I actually MUST do this in order to keep the Tanker from dying if I'm the only other melee type.
That was a shock to me, having gotten used to many team-oriented Tanks in I4 and I5 with 5-6 slotted defenses and poor Offense that were the bread to my 6-slotted attacks, poor defense Scrapper butter that I had Pre-ED.
Heck, surprisingly, I can actually out-tank some tanks when I have two lucks and/or Elude up! Now that ED's forced me to take and slot all my defenses (nothing else to do with those extra slots now that my Offense/damage is capped so low, and now that Stamina/Hasten/etc. don't need to be more than 3-slotted...) I've noticed that the maximum mitigation a Scrapper can get actually now rivals the maximum mitigation a Tanker can get, especially if you have a defender/controller to buff you! I tanked Jurassik with my MA/SR this way when I couldn't grab a Tanker for our Jurassik group.
That said, in many situations on the invincible missions that I team for (I pretty much only run Invincible, as it's the only setting that gets me xp worth a damn in the upper 30's and lower 40's) only a real Tank can tank for the teams that I'm on. Red and Purple mobs are nothing to laugh at, and a huge spawn full of super + cons just plain obliterate me even through Elude a lot of times. Plus, even for those groups I can tank with Elude or lucks, I find that I can't hold onto aggro well/long enough and that the squishies (particularly Blasters, who can grab aggro off a Scrapper lickety-split) get decimated fairly easily when I try to tank.
But that's for invincible level missions with quite a few people. At lower difficulty levels and for smaller groups, I notice that it's quite possible to go without a tanker and in fact, to have no one really doing all that much "tanking" if there's enough control/buffing/debuffing floating around.
Especially at the lower levels, nowadays... been doing a lot of groups in Atlas/King's/The Hollows/Steel/etc. without a Tanker, and everyone's fine and dandy.
All that said... Granite Armor + teleport = absolutely ungodly tanking! But Granite using Stone Tankers aren't representative of all Tankers, of course.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His one posted test involved using the broken version of Invincibility. He also completely glosses over the fact that when buffed, any AT can Tank, so what then is so special about Tanks?
[/ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition. So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker. Why? Because 1) a Tanker starts with higher resistances/defenses and 2) he has Punchvoke and thus can manage the aggro better.
[/ QUOTE ]
There you have it! Tankers have gone full circle and are now back to being Tauntbots, deal with it. Now go make a Brute and enjoy it b4 they get the hell nerfed out of them!
[ QUOTE ]
Heals generating aggro.
Is that crazy?
[/ QUOTE ] LOL. This is exactly what I was going to say! I've read that other MMORPG have this aggro system, so maybe its doable for CoH.
I would add "buffs" in general. Debuffs already induce aggro, so I think it's fine there.
My other suggestion would be better mission design. I remember one mish where my D3 and Blaster teammates and I had a spawn nice and packed around me when lo and behold some baddies showed up behind the D3. Could have been wandering monsters and such but it was challenging to protect the squishies. The D3 had to heal the blaster who was drawing aggro PLUS being out flanked. I came in, took control of the aggro, and everything settled down.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's the problem that I see. On heroic in a 5 man team during our testing I really didn't see the need for anyone to "tank" for the team.
[/ QUOTE ]
On Heroic, even with 5 people, there's barely a need for anyone other than the mission-owner and a buddy. I think higher difficulty settings for your missions really do make the game more fun.
Anyway, how about this:
Heals generating aggro.
Is that crazy?
I'm just wondering if the problem could be that the people who should need a tank most just.. well, don't need one?
[/ QUOTE ]
From what I've heard all the balancing is for heroic level situations. So it's fair to ask what does a tank do on heroic when there is no need for anyone to "tank".
And healing does generate aggro I believe. Not like a taunt but I thought it did.
I'm just gonna get out an old tool of mine to respond to my buddy Circeus here:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition. So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker. Why? Because 1) a Tanker starts with higher resistances/defenses and 2) he has Punchvoke and thus can manage the aggro better.
[/ QUOTE ]
Re (1): doesn't matter, Defender and Controller buffs are so strong, and the differnece between Scrappers and Tankers defenses is so narrow that when viewed in terms of buffs that can be applied, the difference becomes a non-issue. When it takes just as much buffing and/or healing to keep a Scrapper alive to accomplish the same task, which is where the game is right now, the difference in initial values and caps become meaningless. So the Scrapper becomes the better choice because they can contribute more damage.
Re (2): But the question isn't does he manage agro better, it becomes does the fact that the Tanker can manage agro better matter. And the answer again is the fact that he can becomes meaningless.
It is true that pre-I5 a Tanker may have overshadowed both Controllers and Defenders too much. But now Controllers and Defenders overshadow Tankers too much, and are also capable of making other ATs overshadow Tankers too much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quoted for emphasis.
Jack/Statesman, please pay attention to what's being said here. This isn't a "we used to be super" complaint, it's "our role is probably unnecessary because we can't do it better than others to a degree that is meaningful".
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His one posted test involved using the broken version of Invincibility. He also completely glosses over the fact that when buffed, any AT can Tank, so what then is so special about Tanks?
[/ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition. So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker. Why? Because 1) a Tanker starts with higher resistances/defenses and 2) he has Punchvoke and thus can manage the aggro better.
[/ QUOTE ]
But, where in a situation where, "not as well as a tanker" is still well enough to get the job done 90-95% of the time.
Tanks look good on paper, with higher HP, better resists and defence, but, in practice, since they'er going to need support ANYWAY, a scrapper functions better in a team situation when buffed. They can achive sufficent defence, and have a higher base damage and damage cap.
Basically what i'm saying is this... if tanks can't have enough defence to hold resonable argo WITHOUT support, they are really contrubiting much to the team. The team would then need to find support, and once they DO, they no longer NEED the tank, 9 times out of 10.
And while you don't NEED a specific team make up to be sucessful, if you want to fight stuff on levels higher then wimpy, er, heroic, your going to need a defender/controller, and once you have one of them, tanks, basically become weak scrappers with more hitpoints then they need.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
[ QUOTE ]
From what I've heard all the balancing is for heroic level situations. So it's fair to ask what does a tank do on heroic when there is no need for anyone to "tank".
And healing does generate aggro I believe. Not like a taunt but I thought it did.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only healing that I know that generates aggro is Dark and kinetics, I don't think any other ones do I have not seen it yet at least. Debuffs generate aggro is that what you are thinking of?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His one posted test involved using the broken version of Invincibility. He also completely glosses over the fact that when buffed, any AT can Tank, so what then is so special about Tanks?
[/ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition. So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker. Why? Because 1) a Tanker starts with higher resistances/defenses and 2) he has Punchvoke and thus can manage the aggro better.
[/ QUOTE ]
1) does not matter because a tanker will still need the defender or controller buff to do desent tanker, meaning the tanker does need the ideal team composition while everyone else doesn't.
2) only one at, but Brutes can keep agro almost as easily, with taunt on their auras, their AOEs, and 5 hit taunt, plus single target punchtaunt they can easily get to the same agro cap.
Oh dont forget keledians in dwarf form, those can also tank without buffs as long as good strategy eliminates/locksdown the quantums.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition.
[/ QUOTE ]
WHAT!?!?!
I'm not even sure where to begin with his utterly absurd statement.
If that's the goal, you missed it by miles. You've created a sense of "balance" where if you don't have an absolutely ideal team composition, you'll get hosed. Your explanation then goes on to explain how any team can be "ideal" ONLY WHEN YOU HAVE DEFENDERS present.
And what good is "punchvoke" when he can't take the damage it brings down on him??
GAH!
What game are you playing Jack? It's not the same one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your statement is ABSOLUTELY wrong as a general one.
ANY competent team of ANY composition can do ANY mission without an AV in it on *heroic* without ever being in any significant danger and get xp for it at a reasonable rate.
No one needs a Defender on that setting any more than they need a Tank, Scrapper, Blaster, Controller or Kheldian.
Mr. Lithuania
Jessica to Nathan in bed: "I'm not really bad, Isaac just drew me that way."
[ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition.
[/ QUOTE ]
Substitute "Mandatory" for "Ideal" there and he's right. Otherwise, when Defenders/Controllers are present:
-1 Tanker is cumbersome, 2 is redundant
-Pulling reduces the chances of facing multiple groups at once (but Tanks always rush in)
-Scrappers and Controllers can do more Damage while handling +3 mobs.
-Brutes are a lot more fun for ppl who want the "comic book" Tank.
-Tankers lose toggles too easily in PvP and can't see 2xS Stalkers, thus can't protect their Squishies
And personally speaking... a majority of the larger teams I've been on lately had no Tanker (because we couldn't find any) and we haven't really noticed their abscence either.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm just gonna get out an old tool of mine to respond to my buddy Circeus here:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition. So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker. Why? Because 1) a Tanker starts with higher resistances/defenses and 2) he has Punchvoke and thus can manage the aggro better.
[/ QUOTE ]
Re (1): doesn't matter, Defender and Controller buffs are so strong, and the differnece between Scrappers and Tankers defenses is so narrow that when viewed in terms of buffs that can be applied, the difference becomes a non-issue. When it takes just as much buffing and/or healing to keep a Scrapper alive to accomplish the same task, which is where the game is right now, the difference in initial values and caps become meaningless. So the Scrapper becomes the better choice because they can contribute more damage.
Re (2): But the question isn't does he manage agro better, it becomes does the fact that the Tanker can manage agro better matter. And the answer again is the fact that he can becomes meaningless.
It is true that pre-I5 a Tanker may have overshadowed both Controllers and Defenders too much. But now Controllers and Defenders overshadow Tankers too much, and are also capable of making other ATs overshadow Tankers too much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quoted for emphasis.
Jack/Statesman, please pay attention to what's being said here. This isn't a "we used to be super" complaint, it's "our role is probably unnecessary because we can't do it better than others to a degree that is meaningful".
[/ QUOTE ]
QFdoubleE
I don't have much time to respond at work today, but I think it's important that you understand where we are coming from on this States. Circeus nails it pretty much dead on. The defensive changes of I5 and I6 were considered necessary by many of us, however I think that in your efforts to make sure we were not able to do certain things, not enough attention was paid to ensure that were still able to BE something worthwhile.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's the problem that I see. On heroic in a 5 man team during our testing I really didn't see the need for anyone to "tank" for the team.
[/ QUOTE ]
On Heroic, even with 5 people, there's barely a need for anyone other than the mission-owner and a buddy. I think higher difficulty settings for your missions really do make the game more fun.
Anyway, how about this:
Heals generating aggro.
Is that crazy?
I'm just wondering if the problem could be that the people who should need a tank most just.. well, don't need one?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, heals and buffs should generate some aggro.
I think they do, too. Just not very much.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition.
[/ QUOTE ]
WHAT!?!?!
I'm not even sure where to begin with his utterly absurd statement.
If that's the goal, you missed it by miles. You've created a sense of "balance" where if you don't have an absolutely ideal team composition, you'll get hosed. Your explanation then goes on to explain how any team can be "ideal" ONLY WHEN YOU HAVE DEFENDERS present.
And what good is "punchvoke" when he can't take the damage it brings down on him??
GAH!
What game are you playing Jack? It's not the same one.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't agree that the current design demands a perfect team composition. I do feel that tankers don't add as much as they should.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
[ QUOTE ]
From what I've heard all the balancing is for heroic level situations. So it's fair to ask what does a tank do on heroic when there is no need for anyone to "tank".
And healing does generate aggro I believe. Not like a taunt but I thought it did.
[/ QUOTE ]
The number of times my FF defender drew aggro while doing nothing but running disp bubble and putting bubbles on team mates convinces me there is aggro here.
I can't say so much with others, because I've never played empathy, and everyone else has debuffs.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His one posted test involved using the broken version of Invincibility. He also completely glosses over the fact that when buffed, any AT can Tank, so what then is so special about Tanks?
[/ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition. So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker. Why? Because 1) a Tanker starts with higher resistances/defenses and 2) he has Punchvoke and thus can manage the aggro better.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok then what about a stalker that is buffed up then? Assasin Strike is 10 times more effective than punchvoke any day of the week. I already feel that once the hero villain cross over happens someone will exploit this. I also feel that since defender buffs are stronger than corrupter buffs this will really be an issue after that time. So what will you all be doing to counter this. I already know of the 17 mob aggro limit will prevent mass herding but what about a stalker holding the attention of those 17 mobs versus the tanker that has to do it 5 at a time?
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Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
States, I think the biggest issue that tankers seem to have is that scrappers appear to be able to find defenders to assist, and make the need of a tanker secondary. If you have a scrapper, defender and controller in a group, and you have an AV, why get a tanker when you can get a defender who can buff everyone's damage/debuff mobs, along with adding enough to make the scrapper be able to tank the AV?
Likewise, with the reductions in i5, scrappers got a 12.5% damage buff. Tankers got a taunt cap and agro cap in i6. Tankers are feeling neglected, and the climate here is bad. Offering us something, anything, that will buff our defenses comparable to scrapper offenses would be lovely. As it stands, many tankers feel they must have a defender to tank AV's. That's an inversion of what the climate was like in i4, when defenders felt that they were not needed. Likewise, with defenders and controllers both being able to buff, there is more than enough options to helping a scrapper do what a tanker could. While tankers do have an edge, some scrappers can have higher resistance/defense to some attacks and more HP than tankers (see Fire tankers opposed to Invuln scrappers against a S/L/Cold mob). And that's without any buffs.
We're trying to tank, States. Give us something to let us do our job better, and we'll be happy.
[/ QUOTE ]
I actually felt not needed before all the heinous changes in I5 and ED...
Once there was a controller on a team with imps or Phantoms, the usefulness of Tanks vanished. Add to that group holds and there was no need for aggro management.
My tank is dead to me. But if he came out of retirement he wouldnt be looking for a job. He would be looking for a super power. His power was invunurability. But its been gutted so much that it really isnt even a power. Only thing he has going for him is higher hitpoints. SO unless he gets a big boost in damage there is no reason to take him out of mothballs.
If it wasnt for CoV I would have quit back in August.
[ QUOTE ]
ANY competent team of ANY composition can do ANY mission without an AV in it on *heroic* without ever being in any significant danger and get xp for it at a reasonable rate.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this.
The problem is, people find doing missions on heroic, although good at generating XP, rather boring. What teams are looking for, usually, is some sort of a challenge, but not *too much* of a challenge (it's no fun to die mutliple times a mission, but it's fun to have the risk of dying if you screw up big-time).
I think the problem some tankers are having is that, when the missions are set high enough to provide this challenge to the team, the tanker starts to feel much more squishy than one would expect for a tank. This is certainly not to say you should be able to stand in a room full of purples and your HP bar shouldn't move (as was the case under some conditions before). But if your team is fighting reds and purples, you should be able to tank them well enough to not be in need of *constant* healing.
Example: At one point some friends wanted to do one of the TFs (can't remember which) and my tanker, Liberty Lass, was the right level, so I offered to do it with them. Someone said, "Make sure you get a defender then, because LL will need someone to babysit her and heal her." At this point I bowed out of the TF. Liberty Lass is a tanker. She's *not* supposed to need someone to full-time baby-sit her through a task force on (or near) her own level. That people think she does (everyone agreed she'd need it, and they'd all done the TF before -- I had not) shows there is something wrong.
As the person you quoted also said, what good is taunting or "Gauntlet" if you can't survive the resulting aggro?
I tried to explain this to Statesman in a couple of PMs but I'm fairly sure we did not understand each other, or at least he did not understand me. As a tanker, I expect to be able to go in, taunt the room, and take the villains' alpha strike without dying and without assistance. I don't expect to be able to beat that room of villains, but I expect to be able to stand there and hold them at bay long enough that the rest of the team can finish them off. If I can do that without need of constant healing (sure, once in a while a heal will be needed because of some lucky blows or what have you, but not constantly), then I'm satisified. If I need to be "baby-sat" by at least one healer 24/7 through the entire process, then I'm not satisified.
And right now, I'm not satisfied. For all the good saying that will do.
F
[ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition. So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker. Why? Because 1) a Tanker starts with higher resistances/defenses and 2) he has Punchvoke and thus can manage the aggro better.
[/ QUOTE ]
Re (1): doesn't matter, Defender and Controller buffs are so strong, and the differnece between Scrappers and Tankers defenses is so narrow that when viewed in terms of buffs that can be applied, the difference becomes a non-issue. When it takes just as much buffing and/or healing to keep a Scrapper alive to accomplish the same task, which is where the game is right now, the difference in initial values and caps become meaningless. So the Scrapper becomes the better choice because they can contribute more damage.
Re (2): But the question isn't does he manage agro better, it becomes does the fact that the Tanker can manage agro better matter. And the answer again is the fact that he can becomes meaningless.
It is true that pre-I5 a Tanker may have overshadowed both Controllers and Defenders too much. But now Controllers and Defenders overshadow Tankers too much, and are also capable of making other ATs overshadow Tankers too much.