It's possible it does draw something today. But remember that they recently did something to the AI - intial attack runs by large mob groups seems to devote some foes to nearly every person in your party (countless times now I've had stuff run past my Brute or scrapping Stalker in CoV to go straight for the rear ranks of the party before they did anything at all). This may make it hard to tell what the AI is reacting to. If you meant before I5, then I couldn't say. It never seemed anger lots of mobs to use Twilight Grasp, though it certainly annoys the target.
If there is some aggro component now I have no problem with it. I think the current situation is OK. Hell, I'm usually attacking - including AoEs - even with my Defender (certainly with my Corruptor) so I am used to taking heat.
But not all sets have the tools at hand that Dark Miasma and Rad Emission do. Kinetics and Empathy (chosen for being strong healers) are very weak at defending themselves, where as sets like Dark and Rad are good at defending everyone, including themselves.
As Kali mentions, perhaps making them able to buff themselves would help this, but it seems obvious that that's a tweak to the engine/interface - today no one can target themselves at all. Moreover, I suspect that the lack of self-buffage was intended as a balance factor. Some of the most powerful/useful buffs in the game are exactly the ones that cannot be cast on one's self. Examples that come to mind - Speed Boost, Adrenaline Boost, Fortitude, and the various Defense/DR Bubbles.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
[
I understand the sentiment, but I forsee a likely outcome I am strongly opposed to: that having a healer/buffer requires a counter aggro magnet for that character to survive.
I see nothing about current conditions that warrant even risking that outcome.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. Heck no. We should never move towards needing any certain AT in generaly team play. We've already seem to have it with Tankers. There is no need to inflict that on a Defender. (That would be a lovely situation. A Defender and Tanker needing each other on a large team. bleh!)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand the sentiment, but I forsee a likely outcome I am strongly opposed to: that having a healer/buffer requires a counter aggro magnet for that character to survive.
I see nothing about current conditions that warrant even risking that outcome.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see why it'd be a problem, actually. I meanif tankers are going to need defenders to survive the aggro they draw, why shouldn't defenders need tankers to hold the aggro. If anything, it'll give tankers more reason to hold that aggro.
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Because right there you've created two thirds of the holy trinity. Add in your damage dealer and you've got the whole thing. CoH/V is the only MMO I play for specific reasons, Kali. When the City games go down roads that lead to other MMO-style play I'm done with them. Since I enjoy it today I vehemently oppose that outcome.
Basically I liken this to trying to cure a TB victim by giving them polio. Or worse, by given someone else polio so they can comiserate. Let try to get the problems with Tankers addressed by just working on Tankers, not obliquely nerfing other ATs.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
It's possible it does draw something today. But remember that they recently did something to the AI - intial attack runs by large mob groups seems to devote some foes to nearly every person in your party (countless times now I've had stuff run past my Brute or scrapping Stalker in CoV to go straight for the rear ranks of the party before they did anything at all). This may make it hard to tell what the AI is reacting to. If you meant before I5, then I couldn't say. It never seemed anger lots of mobs to use Twilight Grasp, though it certainly annoys the target.
If there is some aggro component now I have no problem with it. I think the current situation is OK. Hell, I'm usually attacking - including AoEs - even with my Defender (certainly with my Corruptor) so I am used to taking heat.
But not all sets have the tools at hand that Dark Miasma and Rad Emission do. Kinetics and Empathy (chosen for being strong healers) are very weak at defending themselves, where as sets like Dark and Rad are good at defending everyone, including themselves.
As Kali mentions, perhaps making them able to buff themselves would help this, but it seems obvious that that's a tweak to the engine/interface - today no one can target themselves at all. Moreover, I suspect that the lack of self-buffage was intended as a balance factor. Some of the most powerful/useful buffs in the game are exactly the ones that cannot be cast on one's self. Examples that come to mind - Speed Boost, Adrenaline Boost, Fortitude, and the various Defense/DR Bubbles.
[/ QUOTE ]
However, I do not believe that giving defenders the ability to buff themselves with their own buffs would really unbalance the game. As it stands, some defenders can benefit from their entire primaries and others cannot. Unsurprisingly, the most powerful sets happen to be those that benefit the user (Storm, Dark, Rad).
I realize the engine isn't built that way. I just happen to feel it was a dumb way to build the engine.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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I realize the engine isn't built that way. I just happen to feel it was a dumb way to build the engine.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not disagreeing. Past experience just indicates that changes of that sort are very unlikely, as opposed to various tinkering with powers to scale their magnitude, duration, frequency of use, etc.
I won't touch how out of whack I think 3/5ths of the CoH inherents are compared to their closest CoV equivalents. Wrong forum for all but one of them. 
Offtopic: Holy simoley! Is your post count accurate? Woah! (Not a dig of any sort. This is actual awe.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I realize the engine isn't built that way. I just happen to feel it was a dumb way to build the engine.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not disagreeing. Past experience just indicates that changes of that sort are very unlikely, as opposed to various tinkering with powers to scale their magnitude, duration, frequency of use, etc.
I won't touch how out of whack I think 3/5ths of the CoH inherents are compared to their closest CoV equivalents. Wrong forum for all but one of them.
Offtopic: Holy simoley! Is your post count accurate? Woah! (Not a dig of any sort. This is actual awe.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it is.
Also, at this point, I do mention things I would like to see, but I have absolutely no expectation that any of them will be implemented.
but I would still love to see aggro management a bit more complex than fire and forget taunts.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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His one posted test involved using the broken version of Invincibility. He also completely glosses over the fact that when buffed, any AT can Tank, so what then is so special about Tanks?
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The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition. So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker. Why? Because 1) a Tanker starts with higher resistances/defenses and 2) he has Punchvoke and thus can manage the aggro better.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then why did you make having a support character near essential. Prior to I5, Tanks and Scrappers didn't necessarily need Defenders and Controllers to take on AVs and other hard content. Basically if you had any two ATs represented in your groups you would probably be fine. The only AT that possibly needed another AT was Blasters.
Now support is near essential to take on tough content. Of course, you can do fine with normal missions without a lot of support, but I've had SF and TF have to break up recently (at the very end no less) because we didn't have the support to take on the AV.
Best example was the Sharkhead SF. I had a group with two brutes, a couple of MM, a Corrupter and a couple of dominators. Should have destroyed everything right? Yeah, except no psi defense at the end meant that we could even get the whole group to the AV.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
[ QUOTE ]
lets see if we flip the coin to be slated to compare to a scrapper a tank has .75 or had that much a scrapers dmg prior to the last dmg buff they got. Now we have somewhere around .68-62 of scrapper dmg. Ok as far as resists/def if you say scrappers have 1 we have 1.33 times more def/resists. Why does this variation in comparision styles matter? because when a defender adds +50% def via a power or 30% resists it sits on that final diff in scale. '
Ergo: invuln:TI 22.5 s/l scrapper 30% s/l tanks both * 1.57
=35% and 48%
ok now add for example a 30% resist bonus due to sonic buff
that is by scale a 30/35% = 85% resist buff, for the tanks its 30/48=62.5 resist buff. But in the end the diff between them is 65% and 78%. 78/65=120% which makes the tanker 1.2 times better then the scrapper or the scrapper is 83% effect of the tank.
Now lets look at tanker dmg vs scrapper and dmg buffs
tanker is .75 of old scrapper dmg and a scrappers current is 112% which is 67% . k so now on to the dmg
a 6bi attack such as shadow maul, vs tanks version = 6*.67=4.02
ok now we slot w/ 3 so's and buildup
that is 6*2+.8=16.8
tanks version 4*2+.8=11.2
Note this is before any buffage! ratio diff is 11.2/16.8. Now we add in some kin buff of 200%
6*4.8=28.8
4*4.8=19.2
ratio is still .67 or so. or flipped is 28.8/19.2=1.5!
The defenders buff in effect didnt have a mutliplier change it merely added right to the def/resists. Where as buffing a tanks dmg always puts them at a disadvange.
NOTE this is ingoring the fact that scrappers get criticals as well!!
SO in conclusion tanks are .67 dmg of scrappers OR scrappers are 1.5 of tanks when fully buffed
and tanks are 1.33 def/resists base which gets skewed to 1.2 with buffs or scrappers are .75 which gets skewed to 83% or higher depending on buff.
What this tranlates to is that tanks need some serious over-haul. New inherints, new systems of powers, something to make them worthwhile.
the 20% difference in effect between them for defenses doesnt need to be made larger, im not calling for scrapper nerfs, tanks need more dmg/inherint or just scrub the AT and let us re-roll as scrappers! Something ,anything is better then the current mish-mosh.
oh if someone sees any fault with my math let me know.
[/ QUOTE ]
/em Stands up and claps
YOU SIR, would get 5 stars if they were still arround. Heck, i would buy the game over to give you 5 more stars!
I personaly dont think we will ever see a big resistance boost, after all, truth is, even if we got it, we still would not be that useful to teams that dont need us that much anyways, and it may make us again unkillable in the eyes of the devs. I personaly would love to see some sort of increase of damage, but i dont want something like a plain base damage boost, something interesting, a true overhaul, must be there. A variation of fury or something like that, but something.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand the sentiment, but I forsee a likely outcome I am strongly opposed to: that having a healer/buffer requires a counter aggro magnet for that character to survive.
I see nothing about current conditions that warrant even risking that outcome.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see why it'd be a problem, actually. I meanif tankers are going to need defenders to survive the aggro they draw, why shouldn't defenders need tankers to hold the aggro. If anything, it'll give tankers more reason to hold that aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not to mention the controller would still do just as good of a job to keep you out of that agro. And that you can tone down your healing and buffing mid battle. Yea, right now an empath can easily set healing aura on auto and face no consequence, healing people even if they dont need it. If agro was drawn for every ally healed, they may think twice of going arround spamming heals like that, and they may even find their single target buffs/heals more useful while at it!
[ QUOTE ]
.........
With fewer mobs to manage in each fight, damage became more important in terms of leveling than damage mitigation did. As has certainly been pointed out, a scrapper with enough buffs/heals can certainly manage one spawn's worth of aggro/dmg. Outside of the over ambitious blaster/spawn with too many hard hitting bosses, things are still very manageable. But now the emphasis is put on speed from group to group. Id rather have a battle over faster with more heals, than one that lasted longer with less.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have said for a long time, and others have agreed, that this is nothing new. This game was designed for speed. Quick team ups. Quick missions/fights. Quick resolutions. It's part of the great beauty of this game, you (generally speaking) don't need to sit for 2 or more hours to get a group necessary to take on a rat nest or something.
The exception to this is, and has been, the tank. While all the other ATs enhance teams by increasing the speed at which you go through a fight, tanks slow it down. "Wait while I gain argo" "wait while I gather" and previous to some nice end reduction "wait while I get END back." These are/were all common phrases when having a tank on a team. Yes, it made/still makes for a more safe fight, but ultimatly slower. Tanks have always been "against the grain" of the basic elements designed into CoH.
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glad you liked my analysis, i just wish statesman and co would acknowledge it. The math for what im showing is the numbers reasons of why scrappers can replace tanks, -
-because dmg buffs add to the multiplier and scraps with higher base get more for that AND
def/resists bonus's unlike dmg do not scale and all AT's get the same bonus.
Together those 2 things mean a blaster-blapper/scrapper are much better choices for a team with 2 trollers/def's.
I understand buffers always bring more to a team its in there nature im just frustrated because this is leaving tanks in flux with a purpose that can be subverted between the scrapper/blaster + troller pets(and they arrest things faster further making us less valueable!)
Ugh.
Guys I have to say all we will accomplish complaining tanks have no place now:
1. They will lower defender buffs
2. They will lower Controller buffs
3. They will lower scrapper caps
If defenders saying they had no place in a team lead to Issue 4, Issue 5, Issue 6 and ED nerfs what makes you think he will BUFF Tanks?
Remember if they could fix something with 1 solution they will up with 3.
[ QUOTE ]
It's possible it does draw something today.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't know about today. I haven't played Defense Options for the most part since I3. His guild went poof with I4 and by then I already had my scrapper as my main anyway his guild was far more active.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His one posted test involved using the broken version of Invincibility. He also completely glosses over the fact that when buffed, any AT can Tank, so what then is so special about Tanks?
[/ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition. So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker. Why? Because 1) a Tanker starts with higher resistances/defenses and 2) he has Punchvoke and thus can manage the aggro better.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dang, now I know why I don't understand Developer's decisions.. I thought the point of the game was to have fun. Geez, now I feel stupid.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand the sentiment, but I forsee a likely outcome I am strongly opposed to: that having a healer/buffer requires a counter aggro magnet for that character to survive.
I see nothing about current conditions that warrant even risking that outcome.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see why it'd be a problem, actually. I meanif tankers are going to need defenders to survive the aggro they draw, why shouldn't defenders need tankers to hold the aggro. If anything, it'll give tankers more reason to hold that aggro.
[/ QUOTE ]
That, should something like that go into effect, would be a step in the direction of undoing what states and company are trying to accomplish. And that is, a game where any group makeup is viable. Right now, tanks requaring support to "tank" is a step in the wrong direction, but the dev's seem oblivious to this. You add in the healer hate every other MMO seems to have, and it's a step FURTER in the wrong direction. Once you start having AT's depended on other AT's to do there job, you lose viritiy, and we become like everyone else.
One taunt bot, one heal bot, maybe a buffer/debuff, then the rest damage, that would become the standered team makeup of CoH, just like it is everywhere else. The almighty "pull" would become the tactic of the day, and we'd basically end up being EQ in tights.
If that's what the dev's want, then so be it i guess, but i always was under the impression they wanted to be different. They were when they started... an MMO with no loot, no PvP, very solo firendly, and fast pased.
But over the last two years, they've added PvP, and loot of a sort, slowed us down, and seem to be trying to force grouping more... all you need do is add in healer hate, and a few more nerfs, and we'll be there. EQ in tights with less content. It'll be a glorius day won't it? 
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
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Re (1): doesn't matter, Defender and Controller buffs are so strong, and the differnece between Scrappers and Tankers defenses is so narrow that when viewed in terms of buffs that can be applied, the difference becomes a non-issue. When it takes just as much buffing and/or healing to keep a Scrapper alive to accomplish the same task, which is where the game is right now, the difference in initial values and caps become meaningless. So the Scrapper becomes the better choice because they can contribute more damage.
Re (2): But the question isn't does he manage agro better, it becomes does the fact that the Tanker can manage agro better matter. And the answer again is the fact that he can becomes meaningless.
It is true that pre-I5 a Tanker may have overshadowed both Controllers and Defenders too much. But now Controllers and Defenders overshadow Tankers too much, and are also capable of making other ATs overshadow Tankers too much.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hear, Hear!
[/ QUOTE ]
<--Holds breath waiting for a response...
fading...
fading...
I don't see the state of Tanks changing in any appreciable manner for the positive any time soon. That's just my pessimism on the matter.
However given that things are not going to fundamentally change with the AT I would ask that in order to make the AT more attractive let the players have some fun with it.
I would ask for damage enhancements specifically limited to Tanks and Scrappers.
Allow these two melee classes to modify their attacks. Placing
fire based, cold based, fear based, energy based, toxic based and even to a limited extent psi based damage enhancers on melee weapons and hand to hand attacks.
Once a specific modifier is chosed and slotted it only takes modifiers of that type. Thus you could not have a Fire/Psy Axe. You could however have one or the other. Base modifers would be unenhanceable to to reduce abuse. They would go from 15% to 20% at 2 slots to 30% at 3 slots. Then diminsh according to ED functions.
Does this help Tank survivability? Not in terms of defense but would help greatly in helping tanks keep aggro and allowing them to Skrank.
It would allow for some distinction in the AT based on its type of offense potential.
If the AT is not supposed to be the best at what its designed to do under all circumstances at least let it be more diverse to play under all circumstances.
Shell game: Arc_ID:417344: It can't be good for humanity if the Circle of Thorns, Banished Pantheon and The Vahzilok are making deals.
A Final Solution: Arc_ID:402587: Earth is under stress. Every being she has spawned and some she hasn't want to possess her. Some of her children believe they have a way to put a stop to this and bring a peace.
-Secret message to the Statesman and tanks post
--If youre on the Dev team your not allowed to read any further! So Stop READING!
*Turns on anti-dev word scrambling device---
I just want to thank the many people on this thread who are working hard to help keep the tanker communities little secret. While youre here throwing up the smoke screen for the Dev team, many of us are out tanking our little hearts out on 8 person invincible level missions
I just wish some of you would play your tankers more
The new generation players seem to think a tank is a scrapper and play them that way
It takes me ½ a mission to learn my pick up team what a real tank can do
I know the work your doing here is important to the Tanker community
but we miss you in the field!
Keep up the good work! We got the Dev team hood-winked!
*Turns off the anti-dev word scrambling device---
@mr-blaze
-The Corporation-
Justice
Nice trolling but meaningless. Doesn't change that a tank's roll is on any team is questionable on the level they are determined to balance things on. If you seriously need a tank on heroic then you don't know what your doing.
Heals and buffs should generate more aggro than they do.
The first reaction of most teams who confront a group of Tsoo is, "Find the sorcerer first! Kill the sorcerers!" The sorcerers will heal and buff the bad guys and debuff the team. They therefore must die first. Same way with Sky Raider Engineers. Same way with Devouring Earth, at least when emanators used to drop regularly.
The AI should operate somewhat similarly.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
[ QUOTE ]
Heals and buffs should generate more aggro than they do.
The first reaction of most teams who confront a group of Tsoo is, "Find the sorcerer first! Kill the sorcerers!" The sorcerers will heal and buff the bad guys and debuff the team. They therefore must die first. Same way with Sky Raider Engineers. Same way with Devouring Earth, at least when emanators used to drop regularly.
The AI should operate somewhat similarly.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I use the same approach to those spawns if the Devs decided to make things happen that way for the AI it wouldn't sit well with the Defender/Controller group. Not at all. Although it would be interesting to see ( in a limited testing phase) to see their actual reaction. I don't think they'd do it though.
Shell game: Arc_ID:417344: It can't be good for humanity if the Circle of Thorns, Banished Pantheon and The Vahzilok are making deals.
A Final Solution: Arc_ID:402587: Earth is under stress. Every being she has spawned and some she hasn't want to possess her. Some of her children believe they have a way to put a stop to this and bring a peace.
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I've played my MA/SR a lot lately, and since I6/ED I have noticed that Tanks have been taken down a pretty noticable notch. Whereas on teams before I never had to directly support the tank to keep him/her alive, nowadays I find myself using Dragon's Tail to knockdown the mob around the Tanker and then focusing on a particularly troublesome enemy (usually a Boss) to take some heat off the Tanker. In many groups, I actually MUST do this in order to keep the Tanker from dying if I'm the only other melee type.
That was a shock to me, having gotten used to many team-oriented Tanks in I4 and I5 with 5-6 slotted defenses and poor Offense that were the bread to my 6-slotted attacks, poor defense Scrapper butter that I had Pre-ED.
Heck, surprisingly, I can actually out-tank some tanks when I have two lucks and/or Elude up! Now that ED's forced me to take and slot all my defenses (nothing else to do with those extra slots now that my Offense/damage is capped so low, and now that Stamina/Hasten/etc. don't need to be more than 3-slotted...) I've noticed that the maximum mitigation a Scrapper can get actually now rivals the maximum mitigation a Tanker can get, especially if you have a defender/controller to buff you! I tanked Jurassik with my MA/SR this way when I couldn't grab a Tanker for our Jurassik group.
That said, in many situations on the invincible missions that I team for (I pretty much only run Invincible, as it's the only setting that gets me xp worth a damn in the upper 30's and lower 40's) only a real Tank can tank for the teams that I'm on. Red and Purple mobs are nothing to laugh at, and a huge spawn full of super + cons just plain obliterate me even through Elude a lot of times. Plus, even for those groups I can tank with Elude or lucks, I find that I can't hold onto aggro well/long enough and that the squishies (particularly Blasters, who can grab aggro off a Scrapper lickety-split) get decimated fairly easily when I try to tank.
But that's for invincible level missions with quite a few people. At lower difficulty levels and for smaller groups, I notice that it's quite possible to go without a tanker and in fact, to have no one really doing all that much "tanking" if there's enough control/buffing/debuffing floating around.
Especially at the lower levels, nowadays... been doing a lot of groups in Atlas/King's/The Hollows/Steel/etc. without a Tanker, and everyone's fine and dandy.
All that said... Granite Armor + teleport = absolutely ungodly tanking! But Granite using Stone Tankers aren't representative of all Tankers, of course.
[/ QUOTE ]
The fact that tanks might now need some support is a silly argument. You point out that with a few lucks you can out tank some tanks. Well, duh...give the same few lucks to most tanks and they could seriously outperform you for taking damage, and they would be much better at aggro control. Furthermore, if you give a tank the same support you are talking about from controllers or defenders they will seriously outperform any scrapper for tankage.
The issue people seem to have now with tanks is that they cannot stand up to entire 8 person spawns on their own, which is just silly. Scrappers drop like flies these days under way less. In a group wipe, the only reason a scrapper might be standing after the tank is that the tank was receiving a far larger part of the damage right up until the end. The point is that everyone is supposed to need support in those situations.
In any case, the fact that you might not NEED a tank to deal with heroic missions is also a silly argument. States is right! Why should we need any particular AT to be able to play the game on the easiest settings? I am not sure whom you are playing with, but every team I have ever been on is happy to get a tank. In fact just about any AT combo can take on missions on heroic and do quite well. Now, perhaps some tank powersets need to be balanced a bit, but tanks are sufficiently tougher then everyone else at this point.
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His one posted test involved using the broken version of Invincibility. He also completely glosses over the fact that when buffed, any AT can Tank, so what then is so special about Tanks?
[/ QUOTE ]
The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition. So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker. Why? Because 1) a Tanker starts with higher resistances/defenses and 2) he has Punchvoke and thus can manage the aggro better.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree with this states, having seen it in play MANY times. A scrapper is a better Tank with buffs.
I agree that a tank has a higher resistances/defenses to start with however, you seem to over look the damage a scrapper does which 1.) elimantes the foes quick and reduces the actual amount of damage he takes (thus provide a defense of sorts) and 2.) his damage amount agros him almost as well as punchvoke.
Nemsis lv50 Inv/SS
Arch-Nemsis lv 50 SS/Inv
Umm...so nowadays what do you call a tanker that is not inv or stone that can still take all the aggro for an 8 person rugged spawn without support?
A fluke?
[ QUOTE ]
Well it just that I recall drawing aggro with good old Defense Options when all he did was fire off a heal (Rad/Ene) not a debuff because when I first started playing I didn't use them, hey I tried them but was unsure they did anything other then get everything mad at me.....
[/ QUOTE ]
I used to team with a D3 who didn't take Darkest Night because it drew too much aggro. She picked it up later for PVP and may have been intoxicated by her sudden power.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)