[ QUOTE ]
Taking your suggestions into account, I've added Defense to the Power Pools to EVERY single damage type EXCEPT Psi. In other words, the Pools are no longer limited to Smashing and Lethal.
Frankly, my original idea didn't account for the fact that some pools would have been situationally more useful to certain Tanker and Scrapper builds...This change addresses the inequality.
[/ QUOTE ]
All but Psi...interesting. Quick question...how come PSI wasn't included?
[ QUOTE ]
All but Psi...interesting. Quick question...how come PSI wasn't included?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because then powersets that have a psi-weakness like invul would stack up on psi-defense powerpools.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
[ QUOTE ]
And Fortitude stays 'working as intended'?
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point. Fortitude needs to do something for Super Reflexes Scrappers, for
the same reason Cryptic updated FF bubbles to cover melee, range, aoe.
if fortitude were all damage types, and all of melee/range/aoe that would cover
things nicely.
Fortitude already offers Psionic Defense, so making it cover m/r/aoe just helps
SR Scrappers with stacking.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All but Psi...interesting. Quick question...how come PSI wasn't included?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because then powersets that have a psi-weakness like invul would stack up on psi-defense powerpools.
[/ QUOTE ]
Before I5 that was the Invul's weakness now there's a few holes in it. 
<when unstop isn't running of course>
[ QUOTE ]
Taking your suggestions into account, I've added Defense to the Power Pools to EVERY single damage type EXCEPT Psi. In other words, the Pools are no longer limited to Smashing and Lethal.
Frankly, my original idea didn't account for the fact that some pools would have been situationally more useful to certain Tanker and Scrapper builds...This change addresses the inequality.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for this change.
Ok, as usual, you people are crazy.
"What? You fixed something? Well... it.. uh... still doesn't address gaping holes that are completely destroying this game! And why did you only give us, free of charge, one horse? WE WANT TWENTY!"
*sigh*
Why Smashing and Lethal? Isn't it blatantly obvious? Because they're common. You might as well just ask "Why only ranged and melee?"
Realize that this adds, not changes, defense options. If you're being defended by a bubbler or you're an ice tanker, this will help you with you against smashing and lethal. As for the electricity blaster cunningly attacking you with something that isn't smashing or lethal (oh no!) you STILL have ranged and melee defense. The worst case scenario is that you have middling levels of electricity defense that's higher than the Pool's melee or ranged defense, and you get hit... but this means you're NO WORSE OFF THAN YOU WERE BEFORE!
The rest of these posts just seem to be complaints about how the system fundementally works. You want that changed. The last major defense change was I5, and you guys screamed about that. So what is it? The game was great, leave it alone? Or change it, change it now?
I don't get you guys. You seem to whine just to whine.
So; essentially...
Power Pools will provide AoE defense to all but Psi? The only hole is Psi AoE, because they still have Melee / Ranged vs Psi.
Phantom Rose: Ill / Kin / Psi
Soleau: Ice / Icy / Ice / Core: Ice / Fire / Pyre / Wind / Eclipse / Flare / Corona
---------------
Solo Space
[ QUOTE ]
Taking your suggestions into account, I've added Defense to the Power Pools to EVERY single damage type EXCEPT Psi. In other words, the Pools are no longer limited to Smashing and Lethal.
Frankly, my original idea didn't account for the fact that some pools would have been situationally more useful to certain Tanker and Scrapper builds...This change addresses the inequality.
[/ QUOTE ]
Really States? You had this planned all along?
I mean it wasn't because of a few rather number intensive posts popped up this morning on certain forums?
[ QUOTE ]
So; essentially...
Power Pools will provide AoE defense to all but Psi? The only hole is Psi AoE, because they still have Melee / Ranged vs Psi.
[/ QUOTE ]
Shhhhhhh..... 
lol...
Phantom Rose: Ill / Kin / Psi
Soleau: Ice / Icy / Ice / Core: Ice / Fire / Pyre / Wind / Eclipse / Flare / Corona
---------------
Solo Space
[ QUOTE ]
Frankly, my original idea didn't account for the fact that . . .
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Really States? You had this planned all along?
[/ QUOTE ]
*blinks* One of us is badly missing the point and it could be me.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
So the only types of attacks the power pool powers don't help with re aoe-psionic types. All other Aoe, and psionic attacks are covered as well...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All but Psi...interesting. Quick question...how come PSI wasn't included?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because then powersets that have a psi-weakness like invul would stack up on psi-defense powerpools.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd also say thematic reasons. Most of the power pool defenses are based on your character being able to move out of the way of an attack and a mental attack isn't exaclty something you can simply dodge. SR I'd say is the exception because they are supposedly highly trained both mentally and physically.
[ QUOTE ]
So the only types of attacks the power pool powers don't help with re aoe-psionic types. All other Aoe, and psionic attacks are covered as well...
[/ QUOTE ]
Essentially. Stacking means that with this change:
1) Anybody with just Pool defences will only have Psy AOE as a hole.
2) None of the powers that yield "real" PSY DEF - Mineral Armor, Fortitude, Indomitable Will, Dispersion Bubble - will stack with any of the Pool Defences against Psy.
Meaning Stone Tankers against Psy opponents get a bit of a shaft, and there's still some remnant stacking issues to do with Dispersion Bubble and Fortitude w/r to SR Scrappers, but there will be far fewer stacking issues than in the last proposal.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Taking your suggestions into account, I've added Defense to the Power Pools to EVERY single damage type EXCEPT Psi. In other words, the Pools are no longer limited to Smashing and Lethal.
Frankly, my original idea didn't account for the fact that some pools would have been situationally more useful to certain Tanker and Scrapper builds...This change addresses the inequality.
[/ QUOTE ]
Really States? You had this planned all along?
I mean it wasn't because of a few rather number intensive posts popped up this morning on certain forums?
[/ QUOTE ]
Apparently you need to re-read what he said...
[ QUOTE ]
Taking your suggestions into account, I've added Defense to the Power Pools to EVERY single damage type EXCEPT Psi. In other words, the Pools are no longer limited to Smashing and Lethal.
Frankly, my original idea didn't account for the fact that some pools would have been situationally more useful to certain Tanker and Scrapper builds...This change addresses the inequality.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have a suggestion regarding Hasten and Stamina, and reducing them in effectiveness while boosting our inherent recharge and endurance rates if you're interested...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Taking your suggestions into account, I've added Defense to the Power Pools to EVERY single damage type EXCEPT Psi. In other words, the Pools are no longer limited to Smashing and Lethal.
Frankly, my original idea didn't account for the fact that some pools would have been situationally more useful to certain Tanker and Scrapper builds...This change addresses the inequality.
[/ QUOTE ]
Really States? You had this planned all along?
I mean it wasn't because of a few rather number intensive posts popped up this morning on certain forums?
[/ QUOTE ]
Apparently you need to re-read what he said...
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh gee. Thanks. Because it wasn't made clear enough by the first person to say it.
I really just want to see how many people will post the exact same thing before I turn in for the night. We can even start a pool with a free copy of CoV issue as the prize.
Edit: yeah I goofed and moved my fingers before my eyes. Sue me!
[ QUOTE ]
So the only types of attacks the power pool powers don't help with re aoe-psionic types. All other Aoe, and psionic attacks are covered as well...
[/ QUOTE ]
Not quite: If I'm SR, the power pools help me against everything except ranged aoes and large pbaoes. In this case, I do get some extra psi-defense.
If I'm Ice, then the power pools help me against all typed of incoming attacks except psi.
Which rather explains why mog is now typed -psi.
Be well, people of CoH.
[ QUOTE ]
Taking your suggestions into account, I've added Defense to the Power Pools to EVERY single damage type EXCEPT Psi. In other words, the Pools are no longer limited to Smashing and Lethal.
Frankly, my original idea didn't account for the fact that some pools would have been situationally more useful to certain Tanker and Scrapper builds...This change addresses the inequality.
[/ QUOTE ]
Statesman,
Thank you for the response. This would indeed fix a lot of the stacking problems. The remaining issues I see are listed below. These may or may not be "intended behavior" or "acceptable behavior" from your perspective, I merely wish to ensure you are aware of them :
1) Does this change apply to Illusion Control: Group Invisibility? Superior Invisibility? How about Dark Miasma: Shadowfall and Storm Summoning: Steamy Mist? Devices: Cloaking Device? These five powers all suffer from the same stacking issues as the pool powers.
2) Mineral Armor, and Indomitable Will will be left unable to stack with anything save each other, Dispersion Bubble, Fortitude, and Personal Force Field.
3) Empathy: Fortitude still will not ever stack with SR Scrapper defences.
4) Force Fields will still stack oddly with SR Scrappers. Non-SR toons will get the full 55% (Dispersion + small bubbles). SR will only get 33% MELEE/RANGE (from Deflection/Insulation) and 22% AOE (from Dispersion).
[ QUOTE ]
This change addresses the inequality.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope you realize for the two Def based melee sets (Ice and SR) there is still a giant inequality.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All but Psi...interesting. Quick question...how come PSI wasn't included?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because then powersets that have a psi-weakness like invul would stack up on psi-defense powerpools.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually still can the pools stack with each other. They are all postional. They did not stack with TH or Inv but those two powers don't give Psi defense.
Here's how I've been thinking of defense lately, it's helped me make better sense of how things work now.
Positional defense (melee, ranged, AOE) is your basic avoidance defense. Dodging, ducking, jumping out of the way, etc. Defense type defense is deflection, either blocking attacks or being covered in armor so that certain types of attacks just bounce right off of you.
Positional and damage type defense don't stack, but that's ok. Being in armor doesn't make you dodge better. On the other hand, if you're trying to dodge an attack and fail then the armor may still protect you because the to-hit roll is going to be checked against the highest defense value. Really, this is the same thing as checking an single attack against both defense types. If it's accurate enough to hit the higher defense, it would hit the lower one as well. Checking against the higher defense just saves a step. Making 2 attack rolls versus two defenses isn't a good idea, this could severely impact the combat system in very nasty ways.
I know some people have suggested alternate systems that would stack different defense types to some degree, but this is just how I'm rationalizing the current system.
Psionic damage is non physical, so it makes sense that it is almost never included in a damage type defense. Psionic attacks aren't stopped by armor or blocking after all...of course you can still dodge them, so they are covered under positional defense.
Really glad to see the other physical damage types added to the power pool defenses, this makes much more sense to me now. Very eager to see these changes in game.
I wouldn't mind seeing a change in terminology in game. I would love to see defense classified as two mutually exclusive things, like avoidance and blocking rather than just +DEF (melee, ranged) and +DEF (all but Psionic)
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This change addresses the inequality.
[/ QUOTE ]
I hope you realize for the two Def based melee sets (Ice and SR) there is still a giant inequality.
[/ QUOTE ]
How so? These changes should ensure any power pool defense will stack with any defense in both of those sets.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
[ QUOTE ]
Taking your suggestions into account, I've added Defense to the Power Pools to EVERY single damage type EXCEPT Psi. In other words, the Pools are no longer limited to Smashing and Lethal.
Frankly, my original idea didn't account for the fact that some pools would have been situationally more useful to certain Tanker and Scrapper builds...This change addresses the inequality.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good call.
And, frankly, it makes just as much sense that you'd have defense against a flare thrown by an enemy because their aim is messed up by your Stealth as it does against a bullet.
And Fortitude stays 'working as intended'?