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[ QUOTE ][*] PVP: Darkest Night debuffs base damage rather than enhanced damage, crippling it in PvP. A power with a base damage of 100 would do 265 damage with 5 SO damage enhancements. Using Darkest Night would only reduce this damage to 235, a decrease of 11% rather than 25%. (LastHumanSoldier, wording by Quason)
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I wonder if all debuffs are calculated this way? -ACC debuffs would basically be useless if that is the case.
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-acc debuffs basiclly are useless in PVP.
Cheers!
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Which is why defenders are basically useless in PVP. One total focus from an energy tank smashes through every defensive power a dark defender has, leaving them 3/4 dead and stunned with all powers detoggled.
Oh, and should we mention the 300' or invis toggle range/drop issue? Not only does your debuff only affect base, but it drops the moment the target superspeeds out of range or becomes invisible. Love that. Thanks Hamidon!
Please buff Ice Control.
Just letting you know I have read this, and will be addressing the valid issues.
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Just letting you know I have read this, and will be addressing the valid issues.
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Wooo whooo! Hallelujah!
Now..... which ones does geko consider "valid issues"?
Speaking as a emp/elec defender, and echoing others, PVP for defenders is very limited.
I spent all the time respecing my elec stuff to ROCK at END drain in PVE, only to find that in PVP, the end drain is about as effective on players as it is on AVs - ROTTEN.
Clear Mind is a great power, but has the longest animation time of the entire set: 4secs. This is horrible because many times you are forced to make a decision on whether to save someone with a heal or save someone else with Clear Mind.
Agreed- Ressurect NEEDS to have something more to it. Perhaps giving it similar attributes to Adrenaline Boost but scaled back, would be a good start.
In order for Defenders to stop having a giant CROSSHAIR on them in PVP, their secondary has to be bumped up in power so as to even be able to keep would be assassins at bay. My elec blasts do NOTHING in PVP. I've slotted them for drain and dmg... the results are both laughable. I have tesla cage and it's "OK" against anything but a tank, scrapper, blaster using Unstoppable, Kheldian using Light-Form...
How come defenders don't get de-toggle powers (other than brawl)? If they do, what are they and what sets are they in.
Also, the activation time for Short Circuit is suicide. You jump into to us it, and if you haven't had aggro managed for you- you are toastmore times than not.
Awesome 
Now gecko go look at the others on each other at board as well and please address the pertinant ones there (especially the poor gimped claws scrappers 
)
Force Field has detoggle powers, basically the only real use for forcebolt other than "outaa my face".
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Bug: When Transfusion is fired off on an enemy that is defeated before the power activates, there is no heal, though the animation fires. However, if Twilight Grasp goes off on a dying enemy, it heals the recipients. (Rigel_Kent adds: To be more technical, this seems to be a problem with all AoE effects generated around the single target of a power. Illusion Control->Blind's AoE mez effect also has this problem; if the Blind damage defeats the target, the AoE mez will not happen. AoE's generated around the user don't have this problem.)
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Unless I am mistaken, even dead mobs have an acc score, while dead mobs are automattically at 0 end. Kinetics drains end to heal, thus no end means no heal - twiglight grasp mearly gives an acc penalty. So that would be the reason why the "Kinetics Death casting bug" exists, and no such issue is there for the Dark defender.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Just letting you know I have read this, and will be addressing the valid issues.
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Could you give us an update as to which is which, and why some aren't "valid"? I'm pretty sure the disorient bug isn't a Defender issue, but others might be a bit murkier.
Still here, even after all this time!
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How come defenders don't get de-toggle powers (other than brawl)? If they do, what are they and what sets are they in.
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Storm: Lightning Storm and Thunder Clap
FF: force bolt, repulsion field, repulsion bomb
Kinetics: Repel (5% chance)
not sure if either of the new sets has any toggle droppers
[ QUOTE ][*]Balance: Sonic resonance users extremely weak as far as self defense until 18 and Sonic Repulsion. Every other defender primary has a power in their primary to help with defense of some kind for themselves before level 10, even if that's just a heal or a slow.
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Was Sonic Repulsion changed from Target Ally to Self?
If not then Sonic Resonance users still lack any kind of personal defenses until level 26. It could be argued that Sonic Cage counts as a defensive power but I'd disagree heavily, it only delays the inevitable damage it doesn't prevent it.
Congrats Kariokie! You got a dev response. Of course, we have no idea what we are spinning our wheels on and what he considers valid. Guess we'll wait and whatever doesn't get addressed we will have to consider working as intended.
Great post. Keep up the good work. Please!
I hope you all get the respect and attention you deserve for what you do in a team. Can I get you anything to drink while you wait? 
Fireclad - Neon Peon - Inner Voice - Confused Larry - Pep Squad - Bob's Secret - Squidclad
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Bug: Hurricane, when used to push an enemy who is under the effects of a hold by another player, sometimes pulls or pushes the enemy in a different direction than intended. (Theory: Hurricane repels enemies Immobilized by another player as if that other player (caster of the Immob) were the origin of the Hurricane.)
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(From the storm section)
I just wanted to clarify this. some of the aoe holds cause the mobs to be locked into a specific pose. When you repel them with hurricane, they move backwards, but instead of facing you then being repeled backwards, they are just repeled from their current position. They are always pushed the way their backs are facing, so if they are locked in a specific direction... they will only be repeled one way. it doesn't matter where the hold caster is.
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Just letting you know I have read this, and will be addressing the valid issues.
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Whoah, a redname post in the Defender forum? From Geko even. Did someone break the seventh seal?
Thanks for reviewing this Geko. Please let us know what issues you consider valid, and how you intend to proceed.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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Kinetics
<ul type="square">[*]Bug: When Transfusion is fired off on an enemy that is defeated before the power activates, there is no heal, though the animation fires. However, if Twilight Grasp goes off on a dying enemy, it heals the recipients. (Rigel_Kent adds: To be more technical, this seems to be a problem with all AoE effects generated around the single target of a power. Illusion Control->Blind's AoE mez effect also has this problem; if the Blind damage defeats the target, the AoE mez will not happen. AoE's generated around the user don't have this problem.)[/list]
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Related to this is the effect of Power Build Up. It does not enhance the effectiveness of powers such as Twilight Grasp (an obvious example since it is a heal and PBU specifically enhances heal effects). This is known to the devs, and described as similar to the problems making Aim/BuildUp work for "place" powers like Rain of Fire and Ice Storm. However, in all cases this sort of behavior is totally unclear to the players unless they read it here or learn it the hard way.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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How come defenders don't get de-toggle powers (other than brawl)? If they do, what are they and what sets are they in.
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Storm: Lightning Storm and Thunder Clap
FF: force bolt, repulsion field, repulsion bomb
Kinetics: Repel (5% chance)
not sure if either of the new sets has any toggle droppers
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Damn, beat me to it. Btw,
Storm: Lightning Storm 100% 1 toggle
FF: Force Bolt 33% 1 toggle, Repulsion Field/Bomb 100% 1 toggle
I don't know if they hit more than 1 but I do know that those percentages are equal for Controllers.
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Unless I am mistaken, even dead mobs have an acc score, while dead mobs are automattically at 0 end. Kinetics drains end to heal, thus no end means no heal - twiglight grasp mearly gives an acc penalty. So that would be the reason why the "Kinetics Death casting bug" exists, and no such issue is there for the Dark defender.
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Actually I believe it relates to the fact that Twilight Grasp is a "place effect". Its existance is resolved at activation time, and its effect is created later by the placed entity. In comparison "attack effects" resolve their effect at animation completion time.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Just letting you know I have read this, and will be addressing the valid issues.
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Don't suppose youll give any hints as to which you consider valid?
Proud Member of:
MDK
My 50s:
Agent Alpha (Kin/Rad)
Shirai Ryu (MA/Regen)
Dark Joule (Dark/Elec)
Kid Frag (Ice/Energy)
Shurai Ryu (Fire/Kin)
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Just letting you know I have read this, and will be addressing the valid issues.
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Thank you very much for taking the time to look at these, Geko.
There are a lot of ones in there that could be considered a bit subjective (balance issues), however I do feel all of them are worth addressing, even if it's just to let us know we're all on crack.
I also hope you've gotten a chance to look at everyone's additions -- new bugs have been discovered, and ones on the list have been fixed by y'all.
As to everyone else -- thanks so much to contributing to this and doing research to back up/investigate the bugs other people found. Y'all rock.
Nice to see a dev posting in Defender land. Nice work on managing the issues.
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When Transfusion is fired off on an enemy that is defeated before the power activates, there is no heal, though the animation fires.
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I think I speak for the whole of the kinetics community when I say that I absolutely LOATHE that. I loathe that damn bug more than I do Tsoo sorcerers.
@sween
Your hero toons need to see this.
Just some thoughts about the remaining FF issues.
The devs have never, IIRC, said that all defender powers should work better for defenders than controllers. They have, however, said that defenders should be better buffers and debuffers. Most of the FF set is neither, and so those 5 non-(de)buffing powers are currently working as intended. This is an overall defender / controller balance issue and should not be limited to just bubblers.
The colour of detention field's never going to change as long as the devs insist upon the look 'n' feel of power sets being consistent. I.e., bubbles will always be that hospital-like bluish-green, rad will always be forest green, dark will always look ... ummm ... dark (and BORING, except for FS).
Bubblers are three-trick ponies -- don't forget detention field. Even if it's one of the rarest primary powers in the game.
I'll try to come up with something about how the final three FF powers don't seem to provide much in the way of team defense for the next iteration.
Thanks for the excellent list!
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Kinetics drains end to heal, thus no end means no heal - twiglight grasp mearly gives an acc penalty. So that would be the reason why the "Kinetics Death casting bug" exists, and no such issue is there for the Dark defender.
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Most Kin/Elec defenders can easily disprove this. A living target completely sapped of its endurance will still produce working Transfusions and Transferences.
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Actually I believe it relates to the fact that Twilight Grasp is a "place effect". Its existance is resolved at activation time, and its effect is created later by the placed entity. In comparison "attack effects" resolve their effect at animation completion time.
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I agree.
Additionally, I think these "place effects" are "owned" by the targeted victim. So if I use Transfusion, Transference, or Blind on the Blood Brother Slammer, the Blood Brother Slammer becomes the proud owner of a nasty AoE that heals heroes, refills their endurance, or mezzes his nearby Hellion buddies. Since effects in general fizzle if their owners have been defeated, this theory, if true, would explain why these powers behave the way they do when their target is defeated. The target "owns" the secondary effect.
Consequently, I think there's a technical limitation preventing Transfusion from getting "fixed:" specifically, I didn't think the code allows for a hero to "own" a secondary effect centered on someone other than himself. Yet.
The only defender sets I've played beyond level 10 or 15 has been Kin/Psy, so those are the sets I will comment on, in regards to the things that bother me the most.
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Bug: When Transfusion is fired off on an enemy that is defeated before the power activates, there is no heal, though the animation fires. However, if Twilight Grasp goes off on a dying enemy, it heals the recipients. (Rigel_Kent adds: To be more technical, this seems to be a problem with all AoE effects generated around the single target of a power. Illusion Control->Blind's AoE mez effect also has this problem; if the Blind damage defeats the target, the AoE mez will not happen. AoE's generated around the user don't have this problem.)
Bug: When Transference is fired off on an enemy that is defeated before the power activates, there is no endurance regained for those in the AOE, though the animation fires. (Dark Pyroblast)
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God this has always annoyed me to NO END with my defender (who has been level 34 before, so I've actually had transference with her.) It is SO freakin annoying. PLEASE fix this! Either give us the buff if the target is defeated as the power is cast, or don't count the power as cast, as in it should be like an interrupted snipe, no penalty for attempting the power. It does not to be recharged and can be recast immediately.
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Quality of Life: Increase Density duration is far too short for practicality. The fact that it has a damage resistance buffing component indicates that it was intended to be used regularly and preemptively, but with a duration of 60 seconds, it's nearly impossible to maintain and still carry out the rest of our primary functions. (Quason)
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YES! Please increase this, I will hit everyone on my team with SB and ID, only Speed Boost lasts a LOT longer, and the mez resist effect runs out before the end of most fights. They should last the same amount of time.
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Balance: Mental Blast does too little damage for its animation time. It costs more end, does the same damage, and has 150% of the animation time of charged bolts. It is 1/3 the dpa of Dark Blast for the same cost. Its animation time should be reduced to 2 seconds.
Balance: Mental Blast's animation is long enough that the enemy could be defeated before the animation even appears to start. The speed of the animation turns many off the entire set. (LadyMage)
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This is very, very true, and I hold the same theory. But I heard/think they may have shortened the animation time to 2 seconds. However, the blast itself needs to move faster.
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Balance: There is only one villian group which has vulnerabilities to psi damage and it's only in the early game when the set is weakest. By the time the set can actually do damage, most villian groups (nemesis, praetorians, Council, Carnies, Malta just to list a few) are not only not vulnerable, but have a high precentage of members with either sizable resists or defense to the entire set, save telekinetic blast, making the set feel underpowered throughout the game. (LadyMage)
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Le sigh... yes. please remedy this. *Pouts and begs*
Also, my boyfriend plays a Storm/Rad that duos with my Kin/Psy, and he has been upset lately because he feels like he isn't contributing to teams very much when we bring our double defender package deal. It seems there is a reason why. Please fix those storm powers, devs. Lots of people don't like teaming with stormies as is, don't make it harder for them. And I would love for my boyfriend to want to play as his character more. I know he gets discouraged.
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Unless I am mistaken, even dead mobs have an acc score, while dead mobs are automattically at 0 end. Kinetics drains end to heal, thus no end means no heal - twiglight grasp mearly gives an acc penalty. So that would be the reason why the "Kinetics Death casting bug" exists, and no such issue is there for the Dark defender.
[/ QUOTE ] Nope. You can still tranfusion/transference off a mob with 0 end - as long as they're alive; and it still gives you the same amount of healing. Kin/elec build their entire character around this effect- short circuit, and then trans/elec everything to keep them at zero end. It doesn't take a lot of +def, +res, -acc, -dmg or +healing to mitigate damage dealt by Brawl.
The way I interpret the bug is thus: transfusion (and transference and FS) have two different effects. The end drain, with a to hit roll, has the neat ringy graphic. The other effect is the heal enemy effect, which is 'cast' by a mob/player when they get hit with transfusion. Since dead mobs cast no buffs, the heal never goes off. The player is casting the end drain- so the graphic shows up regardless. In the case of siphon power or twilight grasp, the player casts both the debuff and the buff; it doesn't matter if the mob is dead.
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[ QUOTE ][*] PVP: Darkest Night debuffs base damage rather than enhanced damage, crippling it in PvP. A power with a base damage of 100 would do 265 damage with 5 SO damage enhancements. Using Darkest Night would only reduce this damage to 235, a decrease of 11% rather than 25%. (LastHumanSoldier, wording by Quason)
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I wonder if all debuffs are calculated this way? -ACC debuffs would basically be useless if that is the case.
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-acc debuffs basiclly are useless in PVP.
Cheers!