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Well I write this with a heavy heart as it has been a month of i5 and no repeal in sight. So now I am forced to merely remember the fun I had to i5 as my sub runs out the 4th of Oct,
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*sniff* I'm... I'm speechless... *choked up*
Oh yeah, can I have your stuff?
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Wow! What a witty response, you should be proud.
Did you think that up yourself? or just copy it off the multitude of previous I5 related posts where that was the 'witty' response to someone leaving on the count of being fed up with constant changes to the way they play their character?
Gee...I wonder how many people are 'tittering in glee' thinking they actually wrote something funny?
I dont think customers taking their cash somewhere else is funny at all...
Service your longtime clients 'expectations' and they will be happy.
I am not saying service their every whim but... EXPECTATIONS.
Everyone that has been playing for several issues realize 'tweaks' happen, but whole ATs nerf and pillaged may make those people playing those ATs for several issues upset yes?
When the markets next superhero mmog hits, it may grab more market share then forecasted by the suits at NCS. So 'driving' away players is not a best business practise.
I dont think this is being done on purpose, only that the game is really a big beta and should not have gone live until they worked out what this game was going to be.
Running off to start reskinning and repurposing a program when the first one may NOT be such a great business idea in the long run. Especially when the first one wasn't working right according to our man Jack.
Now before anyone gets their shorts in a knot and their fists all clenched, and coming to defend the games current direction (i5)...
Let me say this...
I actually like this game, I just refuse to play a tank anymore.
I have been here since issue 1 a few weeks after it went live. It has great graphics and a really well done character creation tool that is the envy of alot of online games.
It just seems to some of us 'Like Minded' players, it is now trying to do too many things, rather then a one thing well.
The nerfs as mention before are the 'easy' way out.
They don't require much creative effort.
Once again...would you invest in a Ferrarri bring it home and have someone come in the middle of the night and swap it for a Ford Focus? or would it be more fun if someone came and build more challenging roads forcing you to drive the Ferrarri better?
Me? I prefer the latter...
Mog
lvl 50 former tank
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Well I write this with a heavy heart as it has been a month of i5 and no repeal in sight. So now I am forced to merely remember the fun I had to i5 as my sub runs out the 4th of Oct,
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*sniff* I'm... I'm speechless... *choked up*
Oh yeah, can I have your stuff?
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Wow! What a witty response, you should be proud.
Did you think that up yourself?
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The originality of the response met the originality of the OP. Good job on catching the point, there.
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Well I write this with a heavy heart as it has been a month of i5 and no repeal in sight. So now I am forced to merely remember the fun I had to i5 as my sub runs out the 4th of Oct,
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*sniff* I'm... I'm speechless... *choked up*
Oh yeah, can I have your stuff?
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Wow! What a witty response, you should be proud.
Did you think that up yourself?
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The originality of the response met the originality of the OP. Good job on catching the point, there.
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You think? You can proceed with the 'tittering with glee' now if you haven't already started... but you probably have yes? 
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It's only the people that PL who are mad at the changes I5 brought.
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Why would PL'ers be mad? They get more XP now for doing exactly the same thing they did before. In fact I5 is a buff for PL'ers.
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I thought those buffs got nerf'd?? Darn buff n' nerfers
Wow.. I can't believe you ppl are still [censored] about I5.. personally, I love it. I applaud the devs on their decisions in I5. Buff.. nerf.. wtvr.. I'm having so much more fun than in I4.
First, there's the exp boost. I've been leveling faster doing missions on Tenacious in I5 than on Invincible in I4.
Second, now that there's actual risk involved, now that I'm not invincible with IH running all the time, the game is actually fun. I was so bored of my main (37 MA/Regen Scrap in I4) that I just stopped playing him. Even on Invincible, missions were a breeze.. it just got so boring. I've been having a lot more fun now that I've had to use some real strategy rather than just repeat 3 attacks over and over and over.. I've had to pick up Cobra Strike, a single-target disorient, and swap Thunder Kick out for Air Supp for the knock up. Fights are a lot more intense now and thus, a lot more fun. Once again, I approve of most of, if not all, the I5 changes (can't really speak for non-Fire Tankers or Defense sets) and I'm having more fun than ever with my main now.
EDIT: One minor gripe I have is that Defiance should really start either kicking in sooner or at least give you the bigger DMG buff sooner.. As it is, your bar barely goes above .2 until you have just a sliver of HP left.. and while we're on the topic, I think the Defiance meter should really be simplified.. using decimals is kinda confusing.. maybe change it to percentages? I know it's the same thing, but it would be easier for a lot of people to understand.
Wow you had to run IH all the time in I4? I could run solo Invinc missions with nothing but Integration and "just repeat 3 attacks over and over and over.. ". Know what changed about that in I5? Nothing I can still run through Invinc missions and "just repeat 3 attacks over and over and over.. "
What I5 did change was my ability to team effectively and survive as a Regen Scrapper. What I5 did change was the entire feel of my heroes and the way their powersets work.
The changes did not promote strategy or make the game more exciting. All it did was make joining a team a gamble for my Regen scrapper and forced my Invuln tanker to herd to be effective.
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Second, now that there's actual risk involved, now that I'm not invincible with IH running all the time, the game is actually fun. I was so bored of my main (37 MA/Regen Scrap in I4) that I just stopped playing him.
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I'm so frustrated with my Fast Healing + Health toon (never had and couldn't take Instant Healing, role played "regen", not "I'm not hurt"), that I've shelved him.
It's good to see that you're having fun, though.
My weird, strange builds are suffering on a much lower setting.
Incidentally, why aren't you playing on Invincible? You seem to like the XP, and it's still very doable for most Scrappers...
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
The reason the Companies and devs nerf things is because it's the easiest thing to do when trying to bring everything back into balance. If you complain that somthing is over powered expect it to get nerfed. the when sombody complains that you are overpowered well it's your turn in the nerf jar.
By the catapillars hooka you WILL smile!
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The reason the Companies and devs nerf things is because it's the easiest thing to do when trying to bring everything back into balance. If you complain that somthing is over powered expect it to get nerfed. the when sombody complains that you are overpowered well it's your turn in the nerf jar.
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And if no-one complains things still get changed. Who ever claimed that SRs and Ice Tankers were overpowered?
Maybe, just maybe, the devs use their own data, testing and long-term plans while listening to the community for fresh ideas and to gauge reaction.... just like they claim they do.
It's easy to blame "nerfherders" for changes, but I think people shouldn't hesitate to post their suggestions. The devs won't make changes just based on a few uninformed complainers.
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It's only the people that PL who are mad at the changes I5 brought. Me personally, I haven't noticed a thing. The game feels the same to me. It's just so darn quite when I log on now. Darn nerf hearding CoV beta buffers.
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Well I am not a power leveler by any means and I am mad at I5 ans so are a lot of non power levelers I play with who rarely play now and are debating on canceling their 4 accounts. In the group of 6 of us only 2 of us have a level 50 and the other 4 that do not have played longer than I have.
I say your statement does not even have a modicum of truth to it. The reason is that all I5 did was change the way pl work and instead of using tanks they use scrappers or a couple combos of uber controllers classes.
In fact it is eaiser to PL now than it was before I5 you get more xp per mob now you just go small group to small group really fast. The damage out put is up and makes XP gain quicker you can clear a mission faster now than before I5 using the right AT combos. Run around kill everything real fast leave mission reset rinse repeat. So now they can kill faster and get more xp and no longer have to spend hours herding up tons of mobs for the same xp.
Sorry the statement was wrong on to many fronts
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So i guess that makes my lvl 32 invuln tank a pl because im unhappy wit hthe changes and cant tank anything non s/l
:nods: ya that makes sense, cant posible be upset about nerfs unless your a pling nerf herder. So guess im a pling nerf herder, does it really matter that the most i would grab is 2 mobs to prevent spill over except in those cases when we so outleveled the missio it was -3 to -6 mobs in it where i would herd intire rooms of thing that coned at best blue on a boss, white in a elite boss?
Naaaa i must be a pling nerf herder...
isnt that rght hej? I mean you do the same thing i do, that mean we must be pling nerfherders right? We cant be dussatifed players....
sarcasm off
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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It's only the people that PL who are mad at the changes I5 brought. Me personally, I haven't noticed a thing. The game feels the same to me. It's just so darn quite when I log on now. Darn nerf hearding CoV beta buffers.
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Well I am not a power leveler by any means and I am mad at I5 ans so are a lot of non power levelers I play with who rarely play now and are debating on canceling their 4 accounts. In the group of 6 of us only 2 of us have a level 50 and the other 4 that do not have played longer than I have.
I say your statement does not even have a modicum of truth to it. The reason is that all I5 did was change the way pl work and instead of using tanks they use scrappers or a couple combos of uber controllers classes.
In fact it is eaiser to PL now than it was before I5 you get more xp per mob now you just go small group to small group really fast. The damage out put is up and makes XP gain quicker you can clear a mission faster now than before I5 using the right AT combos. Run around kill everything real fast leave mission reset rinse repeat. So now they can kill faster and get more xp and no longer have to spend hours herding up tons of mobs for the same xp.
Sorry the statement was wrong on to many fronts
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So i guess that makes my lvl 32 invuln tank a pl because im unhappy wit hthe changes and cant tank anything non s/l
:nods: ya that makes sense, cant posible be upset about nerfs unless your a pling nerf herder. So guess im a pling nerf herder, does it really matter that the most i would grab is 2 mobs to prevent spill over except in those cases when we so outleveled the missio it was -3 to -6 mobs in it where i would herd intire rooms of thing that coned at best blue on a boss, white in a elite boss?
Naaaa i must be a pling nerf herder...
isnt that rght hej? I mean you do the same thing i do, that mean we must be pling nerfherders right? We cant be dussatifed players....
sarcasm off
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I have no idea what you just said. Slow down when typing. Learn a bit of english while your at it. And then figure out how to write it too. Damn PL'rs.
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And if no-one complains things still get changed. Who ever claimed that SRs and Ice Tankers were overpowered?
Maybe, just maybe, the devs use their own data, testing and long-term plans while listening to the community for fresh ideas and to gauge reaction.... just like they claim they do.
It's easy to blame "nerfherders" for changes, but I think people shouldn't hesitate to post their suggestions. The devs won't make changes just based on a few uninformed complainers.
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Like the devs have any credibility left on the testing front. I still remember the famous test fiasco yes we where able to heard and kill+8 mobs with no issue scrappers are way over powered blah blah blah. Yep they got nailed on that. Then lets go with Dark Armor and the Cloak of Fear Nerf; statesman COF is Auto hit which of course was wrong it had a 95% accuracy and costed a ton of endurance they nerfed it so no one really uses it any more; pretty funny how the devs like to do that (I am not saying cof did not need some adjustments either).
So a dev saying anything about their own testing and what they see etc has no merit left. They lost their own credibility time and time again the customer on this board have proved that they where wrong on way to many fronts and have a better understanding of the game mechanics.
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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Learn a bit of english while your at it.
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Quoted because I'm a fan of irony. 
ur just pissed that pl'r get all the good stuff in life
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I dont think this is being done on purpose, only that the game is really a big beta and should not have gone live until they worked out what this game was going to be.
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That isn't entirely fair. Even with a long beta-test schedule -- the kind of thing that most game developers can't afford before they start getting some return on the unrelenting outlay that is game development. Having characters artificially bumped in level to determine how the upper levels play isn't going to give you the same results that having hundreds of people level characters up to the high levels during play, so you're not going to get the same gameplay that you will after the game goes live. However, from the continued poking at the powers with each major update, repeated statements that powerset X was "right where they wanted it" followed by significant rework in the next major update, it's clear that they weren't doing or hadn't done the kind of prospective analysis that would have showed them that some of their design decisions were flawed.
For example, Regen took whacks every single major update, culminating with I5, where what had been the defining power of the powerset was changed from a toggle to a click with a rudely-large recovery time, apparently because it was 'too good'. With about an hour of work, I built an Excel spreadsheet (needs the Analysis toolpack installed in Excel to work) that took a stochastic look at the effectiveness of Defense-, Resistance-, and Regen- based characters, and the results of combining the different types of protection; it quickly becomes obvious that Regeneration can easily be the most poorly-performing secondary -- until you add the Defense from Weave and the Resistance from Tough -- Weave alone will make a Regen Scrapper outperform Defense- or Resistance-based protections, but both will make them much harder to take down. The devs' answer to the problem, as we've seen, was to massively carve back Regen's healing rate, with Instant Healing available only situationally. The reason for this was that it was 'never intended' that IH be used continuously, despite the fact that, for more than half of the time CoH had been live, IH was the only power in the Regeneration set that actually gave a Regen Scrapper a regeneration rate high enough to be useful in combat. I saw the '4 Heal / 2 End Redux' IH slotting recommendation to allow it to be kept up continuously appear on the forums within a month after CoH went live -- but a year and a half later, after several kicks to Regen, the last of which spread IH's regeneration boost out between Integration and Instant Healing, the devs come out of the blue with the claim that we should never have been keeping it running all the time.
Now, I'll concede that just looking at single dimensions of a power can't tell you whether the power is balanced; the spreadsheet I created only looks at a comparison between Defense, Resistance and Regeneration (and combinations thereof) to see how the three protective categories compared against each other. But from the changes that have been appllied with the major updates, particularly Issue 5, it seems clear that the devs didn't have a good enough understanding of how the powersets would work in play over the full level range to be able to do a proper job of balancing the powers, particularly in PvP play, so when PvP was finally introduced, it quickly became clear that major changes had to be made to establish even a gross parity among the ATs. And that's the fundamental problem with I5 -- that it made so many sweeping changes all at once. Combined with the many pale "never intended" excuses for some of the power changes, it left an extremely bad taste in the mouths of many of the longtime players because of the changes to their playstyles -- in some cases, completely gutting their character design, or making the game no longer fun. I think, though, that if everybody who had been playing CoH prior to I5 had started playing after I5 went live, we wouldn't see the complaints and mudslinging; without a year and a half prior experience with how the various powers worked, we would have simply accepted that this was the way they worked, even if some of the powers seemed a little poorly-designed. It was playing for a year and a half, then having the title screen jacked up and a new game shoved underneath that's created the problem, and unfortunately for the easy acceptance of the changes, it's too easy to look at the changes and see them as having been driven by PvP, either in the arena or linked to CoV; whether that's right or wrong, it's people's perception of the issue that fuels the flames.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
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Learn a bit of english while your at it.
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Quoted because I'm a fan of irony.
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Quoted because I am also a fan of irony.
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Learn a bit of english while your at it.
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Quoted because I'm a fan of irony.
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Quoted because I am also a fan of irony.
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LOL, you may be a fan of irony, but "your" certainly no fan of the english you suggest others learn.
Spelling and grammar nazis should really be more careful with their homophones. Give this a whirl...
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Learn a bit of english while your at it.
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Quoted because I'm a fan of irony.
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Quoted because I am also a fan of irony.
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LOL, you may be a fan of irony, but "your" certainly no fan of the english you suggest others learn.
Spelling and grammar nazis should really be more careful with their homophones. Give this a whirl...
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LOL, it does not look like you are either.
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Learn a bit of english while your at it.
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Quoted because I'm a fan of irony.
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Quoted because I am also a fan of irony.
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LOL, you may be a fan of irony, but "your" certainly no fan of the english you suggest others learn.
Spelling and grammar nazis should really be more careful with their homophones. Give this a whirl...
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LOL, it does not look like you are either.
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Okay, I really hate to drag this out, but the perfectionist in me must know...what exactly are you referring to?
And just for the record, I'm no habitual forum spell checker. I just think it's hilarious when someone tries to correct someone else's english and gets it wrong themselves. Hence, the irony. But I'm more than willing to accept that I've made an error myself. Please point it out. I don't see it.
before this turns ugly... ok it may allready be so.. may i point out some of the obvious?
#1 yes there will ALWAYS be PL in some form!
there is always a work around... not to penalise the casual player or the power gamer.... but PLing happens alot in online games. after playing online for over 7 years now i can see that is obvious and well... no way to 100% get rid of it. so might as well just try to minimise the damage.
#2 I5 has made some changes to gameplay....
yes , tactics have changed ... not always for the bettter mind you .. but the SCOPE has changed. Controlers can do a bit more damage and are more solo friendly... tankers meanwhile got the big powersuck... and defenders... well we like defenders *pat them on the head*
#3 online games constantly change ...
SInce online games are Fluid and responsive to realtime, the dynamics have to evolve otherwise it grows stale and then dies on the vine.
but most importantly ask yourself.. are you having fun???
if yes : play and pay your $15.00 ( or depending upon the price structure outside the US)
if NO : well.. you can always post, suggest and if that doenst help to make it better... theres always another MMO out there willing to take your money. I am not trying to be harsh mind you.. just trying to be fair.. open and realistic to what i see..
so keep posting and lets all try to get allong till CoV..
I KNOW ILL BE THERE WITH MY VILLAN!!! MUHAHAHHAHA
"Lokk, you have a powersuit that is self-contained, can withstand any atmosphere, it can fly and shoot out energy beams. BUT you cant open the helmet to have coffee and doughnts??? Sad man.... just... sad" PatriotPrime asking me why I am angry all the time.
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before this turns ugly... ok it may allready be so.. may i point out some of the obvious?
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Yeah, I think we passed 'ugly' about 30 pages ago and are now somewhere between 'puerile' and 'earbleedingly moronic'.
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before this turns ugly... ok it may allready be so.. may i point out some of the obvious?
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Yeah, I think we passed 'ugly' about 30 pages ago and are now somewhere between 'puerile' and 'earbleedingly moronic'.
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seconded, so I'll try to give my considered feedback on I5, I have 3 lvl 50s and about 50 or 60 toons playing all ATs seriously except kheldians. I also don't give or accept PLs.
Tanks:
Invul: definitely nerfed, maybe slightly overnerfed, possibly needing a respec, but survivable and if you weren't herding a large proportion of the map at one go, you can still do your job fine, although your health bar will move now and you may need some healing in a team scenario.
Ice: harder to play than before (which wasn't great in I4), in need of a little love.
Fire: Needed a serious nerf, whether it needed the one it got is arguable, reduction in burn damage would have done. The set was poorly designed in that in its original form you could exist with little more than burn for offence, and the burn/ice patch build became very popular as one of the herding builds of choice. The excessive fear in burn made fire/ice underpowered, as ice does little damage, and fire tanks are supposed to be offensive in nature.
Stone: Forced towards the granite armor route by I5, it used to be possible to play one without taking GA, now I'm not sure how possible that is in the late game with the nerfs to the lower armors. Granite armored tanks largely unaffected.
Controllers
Illusion: Depends on your secondary, my ill/kin loves I5, the loss of one phantasm was more than compensated by containment, particularly on the epic AoE damage. Went from 40-50 in a very short time. However a couple of friends who are ill/rad have said that I5 makes their gameplay very stereotyped and boring.
Fire: Fire/rad still survives and is good, but not godly as it was before with the reduction in imps. Emp, FF and Kin also seem to work well.
Mind: only have experience up to level 20 or so, but found these very soloable so far (/TA and /Kin).
Ice: Mine is ice/storm and was a concept toon which meant doing essentially no damage other than by my pets, toon impossible to play in that way now. Still effective in groups after respec, but can't solo, most damaging thing she can do does 20, so double that still not much use.
Grav: little personal experience but the one I regularly team with does fine.
Earth: only played lowbies, but they're fine.
Scrappers:
Not quite as tough as they were, but the only major issue I had was with regen. My 50 DM/regen was a concept toon, designed to get to 50 without hasten or stamina and run his defence purely on toggles, to let me concentrate on what I was attacking. Well I4 threw half the concept out the window and I had to respec in hasten and stamina. I5 has now killed the rest and I will probably never play him again unless I want to accumulate some cash.
Blasters:
Need to think a bit more about when to throw in AoEs, but no particular issues.
Defenders:
FF: Reports of demise exaggerated. Mine survives fine in groups, but the set needs work. Essentially you can be an adequate solo defender or a good team defender but not both. You need to pick different powers (mine is team orientated, and has no FF powers other than the two 'ally' bubbles and the dispersion bubble), whereas a solo defender will want the repels which in a team scenario do nothing apart from making the team's tank want to kill you. Sonic now overshadows this because the non bubble powers are simply more useful.
Dark: I think it was telling that on the Fearsome stare thread, almost everybody agreed it needed nerfing. I agree with this, tar patch, fearsome stare and blast away, rinse/repeat (mine duos with a blaster) was ridiculously easy. With the lack of intelligence in the pets, reducing to one dark servant is a problem.
Emp/kin/rad not much changed.
Storm: not enough experience to comment, but having used it as a controller secondary, still seems to work.
Mr Minotaur 50 stone/axe tank Freedom
Psycho Clown 50 Ill/kin cont Freedom
Toxic Texan 50 DM/regen scrapper Infinity (retired)
Ms Blizzard 37 Ice/Storm cont Freedom
RollingDoughnut 37 FF/dark def Freedom
several blasters up to 41, and 50+ others
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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Learn a bit of english while your at it.
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Quoted because I'm a fan of irony.
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Quoted because I am also a fan of irony.
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LOL, you may be a fan of irony, but "your" certainly no fan of the english you suggest others learn.
Spelling and grammar nazis should really be more careful with their homophones. Give this a whirl...
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LOL, it does not look like you are either.
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Okay, I really hate to drag this out, but the perfectionist in me must know...what exactly are you referring to?
And just for the record, I'm no habitual forum spell checker. I just think it's hilarious when someone tries to correct someone else's english and gets it wrong themselves. Hence, the irony. But I'm more than willing to accept that I've made an error myself. Please point it out. I don't see it.
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No error that I can see. I believe iNdyi is just doing his or her best to troll.
Bloody Axe Inv/Axe - Champion
Dying Cooper Spi/Reg - Champion
Power Rock Stone/EM - Justice
Mistress Magma Fire/Kin - Freedom
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Learn a bit of english while your at it.
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Quoted because I'm a fan of irony.
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Quoted because I am also a fan of irony.
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LOL, you may be a fan of irony, but "your" certainly no fan of the english you suggest others learn.
Spelling and grammar nazis should really be more careful with their homophones. Give this a whirl...
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, it does not look like you are either.
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Okay, I really hate to drag this out, but the perfectionist in me must know...what exactly are you referring to?
And just for the record, I'm no habitual forum spell checker. I just think it's hilarious when someone tries to correct someone else's english and gets it wrong themselves. Hence, the irony. But I'm more than willing to accept that I've made an error myself. Please point it out. I don't see it.
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No error that I can see. I believe iNdyi is just doing his or her best to troll.
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Quoted because i'm also a fan of trolling and this thread has lost all direction, so why try?
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
Well, regarding your "sta[t]us level thinger", I gotta say this: I am an odd duck. On the one hand, I have three accounts, so my time IN GAME would not be properly reflected. (I am also a paranoid duck so each account is completey seperated to counter any GM black-balling that might someday occur.) On the other hand, I like hanging out and talking just as much as I do actually fighting. So, yeah, my main is a lvl 34 Tank and I have 150+ alts spead over every damn server in the game. (sombody pull this character generater from my artery and put me in detox!). What about the freaks like me that are always on but nerver really doing something meaningful?
and keep it off the boards.
By the way, if any of you want to answer that last question with lip, send me a personal message so I can properly fold that face of yours over your skull all nice and purdy