Mog_Man

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I would much rather hear Cryptics explanation of our intended role and how they see us accomplishing it. Since we have obviously been wrong by their direction, I would really like for States and company to tell us what we are supposed to contribute to a team, and how that contribution stands out beyond all other AT's.

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Tankers manage aggro better than any other Archetype. They also have the highest combination of hit points and defenses in the game. Their role is to take the brunt of a spawn's aggro just long enough in order for the rest of the team to be able to eliminate the mobs.

Should a skilled Tanker be able to corral EVERY mob? With a lot of skill, it should be possible - but it's certainly not required to be a good Tank. As long as the Tanker can hold onto aggro so that his teammates are facing less than they'd normally face (i.e. 3 minions), then the team has an advantage. Namely, each teammate can quickly eliminate his opposition...and then come to the Tanker's aid at the end.

I just played a Tanker with the following group (actually, at the request of a PM)...

Inv/Fire tanker (32, SKed to 49)
Level 50 Elec/Elec Blaster (it was his mission, set on Rugged)
Level 32 Peacebringer (SKed to 48 or so).
Level 48 MA/Inv scrapper
Level 50 Fire/Kin controller
Level 35 Earth/empathy controller (SKed up to 48)
Level 49 Energy/energy blaster

We faced the Carnival of Shadows. Typically, I'd start combat by Taunting any Strongmen in the spawn. I knew that I could handle their damage best. I'd usually catch some other minions and lts. I'd end up with a good 1/3 of the spawn focused on me, while the rest of my group disposed of the others. Whenever I saw a teammate enter the red, I'd either Taunt the mobs off them or hit the mobs to get their aggro.

End result? Well, no one was that familiar with their builds. The Controller was defeated by getting too close to another spawn. The Peacebringer carelessly tossed off attacks and ended up aggroing too much. After those two defeats, we settled down and functioned fine.

Admittedly, my own health dropped down to a 1/3 several times. I'd get a little concerned, but usually I had Dull Pain ready.

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Tell us about 'Statesman' he is a Tank also yes?...does he suffer from all the nerfs/setbacks like the rest of us tanks?

Curious....

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There is no toon that is the same and/or as powerful as in I4, or any other issue for that matter.

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Atomic Justice is more powerful in Issue 5 than he was in Issue 4. . .chiefly thanks to the hit point boost and the occasional glimmer of defiance that he gets.

Please be less extraordinarily rude in the future.

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too bad you didn't make lvl 50 yet and have some real experience to state that...and have those hami as at 50% bonus. I5 toon has nowhere near the power capability of an pre hami nerf I4 in the long haul.

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Well I write this with a heavy heart as it has been a month of i5 and no repeal in sight. So now I am forced to merely remember the fun I had to i5 as my sub runs out the 4th of Oct,

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*sniff* I'm... I'm speechless... *choked up*

Oh yeah, can I have your stuff?

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Wow! What a witty response, you should be proud.
Did you think that up yourself?

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The originality of the response met the originality of the OP. Good job on catching the point, there.

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You think? You can proceed with the 'tittering with glee' now if you haven't already started... but you probably have yes?

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Well I write this with a heavy heart as it has been a month of i5 and no repeal in sight. So now I am forced to merely remember the fun I had to i5 as my sub runs out the 4th of Oct,

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*sniff* I'm... I'm speechless... *choked up*

Oh yeah, can I have your stuff?

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Wow! What a witty response, you should be proud.
Did you think that up yourself? or just copy it off the multitude of previous I5 related posts where that was the 'witty' response to someone leaving on the count of being fed up with constant changes to the way they play their character?

Gee...I wonder how many people are 'tittering in glee' thinking they actually wrote something funny?

I dont think customers taking their cash somewhere else is funny at all...

Service your longtime clients 'expectations' and they will be happy.
I am not saying service their every whim but... EXPECTATIONS.

Everyone that has been playing for several issues realize 'tweaks' happen, but whole ATs nerf and pillaged may make those people playing those ATs for several issues upset yes?

When the markets next superhero mmog hits, it may grab more market share then forecasted by the suits at NCS. So 'driving' away players is not a best business practise.

I dont think this is being done on purpose, only that the game is really a big beta and should not have gone live until they worked out what this game was going to be.

Running off to start reskinning and repurposing a program when the first one may NOT be such a great business idea in the long run. Especially when the first one wasn't working right according to our man Jack.

Now before anyone gets their shorts in a knot and their fists all clenched, and coming to defend the games current direction (i5)...

Let me say this...

I actually like this game, I just refuse to play a tank anymore.
I have been here since issue 1 a few weeks after it went live. It has great graphics and a really well done character creation tool that is the envy of alot of online games.

It just seems to some of us 'Like Minded' players, it is now trying to do too many things, rather then a one thing well.

The nerfs as mention before are the 'easy' way out.
They don't require much creative effort.

Once again...would you invest in a Ferrarri bring it home and have someone come in the middle of the night and swap it for a Ford Focus? or would it be more fun if someone came and build more challenging roads forcing you to drive the Ferrarri better?

Me? I prefer the latter...


Mog
lvl 50 former tank

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Granted, but regardless, it seems the end result is almost always the same... nerf. This industry needs to pull itself up out of this downward trend. If they come up with inventive solutions behind the scenes, great... use them.

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Actually it's just you thinking that everything gets nerfed. Most poeple only ever see the bad yet ignore the things that were actually positive increases. It's a matter of perception not actually matching reality.

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I think you mean 'trade off' correct? cause a Nerf is a Nerf nothing 'positive' about it... unless your refering to what you precieve as 'benefits'?

Mog
lvl 50 former tank

That... or the fact that i5 may have hit some people in the wrong place.

You know this may actually be the change in gameplays fault and lack of and end game... Imagine that

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We can thank CoV beta for the shortage of people too.

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Beta only runs for a few hours at night...wouldn't account for that big of a drop off in numbers.

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I am to the point I rather not have a tanker in my group they slow me down and get in the way. The mass herding of days past are gone and tankers just get in the way. Even on AV missions the tanker was just in the way; I prefer controller pets they do a better job as AV tank untill you lock them down then you turn losse your Scrappers and Blasters.

Since I5 the groups that cleaned house the fastests and racked up xp like no tommorrow have been the groups with no tankers.

That is what I have seen the tanks do to little damage in this new era super damage groups defenders are welcomed because they heal and give you bubbles etc to make the job eaiser. So groups heavy on scappers and blasters with a defender and a controller mixed in are way better and I would preer to run with those groups.

Sorry Tankers in the new kill 1st or be killed era of COH you do not measure up. You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting (poor poor tankers)

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Finally!!!! someone gets it...great post because it is true.

Mog

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rather then Cryptic who had no vision for the end game so just decided to nerf the whole thing.

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You honestly believe that? To me that's a big non sequitur.

I'm all for content and agree with you wholeheartedly about adding content in the form of making existing zones better (through more detail and more immersive gameplay), not just making the game bigger with new zones. I just don't see the I5 changes being a result of the devs being unable or unwilling to create endgame content, which is what you appear to be saying.

You seem to use the word "uber" as a stand in for "a character who can make an 8 man team on invincible completely safe through his efforts alone," which might apply to I4 controllers (permalocking everything) and I4 tankers.

The way I see it, that's a poorly designed game. It has nothing to do with jealousy. I will be bored in a team where I'm never in any danger and all I do is contribute some damage to the mobs buzzing around the tanker, or punch statues held by the controller. So to me, the I5 changes were about improving some fundamental aspects of the gameplay. You, on the other hand, see the I5 changes as some sort of easy way out in lieu of improving the game by adding content.

Sure, choice is a beautiful thing, but it's not the number one priority when you're designing a game. Why not just add a god mode to COH? You never take damage and when you create your character you can choose your level and as many powers as you want. Why limit characters to four power pools? More choice = better, right? The game designers have to balance choice against making a game that is challenging and fun for all.

If you want to say that the I5 changes should have happened sooner, I won't argue with you. If you want to say that COV is pulling away dev time that could be spent improving COH with new content, I won't argue with you. We just disagree abo
ut the reason for and the benefits of the I5 changes.

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Well you make some good points...

But i feel If anyone is bored in a team they are not doing anything in...they should leave... just a matter of finding a situation where you can.

Sure my tank was tough but it wasnt invinclible. I still died and got my @ss haded to me in PvP and in invincible missions.

As far as the game itself goes...Its as challenging as you 'want' it to be a few more notchs on the mission scales would also have fixed that like 'suicidal' or 'certain death' ...

I also ask this question.
What is CoH? a PvE game? a PvP game? or a PvP game?
rule of brand, you cant do everything well, do what you do best. What is the core of the game?

So i stand by my lack of vision claim

'Uber' was used to address those number crunchers that wanted to have soloing characters. Hard hitting Nerf's are not a good solution. Pumping things would have been a better approach.

Another 'rule' is You never take away from a consumer... sure its one half a dozen or six... BUT its the perception.
By making things more difficult you are not taking back from the consumer.

I would hate to buy a ferrarri and have someone sneak into my garage and swap it for a Smart Car. But I would'nt mind giving the road I drive my Ferrarri on more curves challenges to navigate. Wouldn't you?

Mog

You know choice is a beautiful thing.

For all the people that complained that it was too easy before ...why didn't you just ditch your enhancements?

That would make the game harder yes?

I was never a number cruncher and probably about 90% of the people that dont frequent these forums are not as well. We just chose what we thought was best suited for the 'personality' of our toon.

I enjoyed my Hami O pre hami nerf 'Uber' Tank... I earned him. He still got the snot kicked outta him during AVs but at least he didnt get one shotted like he does now. When i found him boring I went on to start other ATs and had fun.
Now the answer to my once uber tank is here is the same old stuff just harder now. hmmmmm... great solution Cryptic.

This is a cool game, great graphics, cool people to hang with BUT I repeat there seems to be no CLEAR VISION anymore!

CoH could be so much more with some attention and without becoming unloved step-child to CoV.

When you hit what some call 'Uber' status there is no game content to handle the challenge. Its cool how this thread has players disagreeing with fellow players rather then Cryptic who had no vision for the end game so just decided to nerf the whole thing. There could have been a whole new zone catered to hugh lvls with new Uber powered Villians to hand them there @ss...but no

There could have been alot of things to handle the 'problem'... but no

They took the easiest way out... that is not being 'Creative'.

As far as a work in progress, yes I can understand that
but do you take a concept car, introduce it to the public as a an exciting sports car, then launch it as a non practical urban comuter car? Look what happened to the Pontiac 'Fiero'.

Croatoa is a really nice zone, excellent touches, great stuff...but once again its for the mid lvl game.

Most of CoH is rehash as I mentioned before...Boomtown, Faultline why have both nothing unique really, Eden, The Hive?
How many zones are really different from one another in look and feel? Perez was great when launched, rather then tweak it to be better... they slap up the Hollows.

They are throwing us scraps here... because they are too busy with CoV?, or they have run out of creative juice?

Is it really hard to skin some more walls for interiors rather then everything being an Office building inside?

Is it really that hard to create an illusion of the city? like with people sitting in cafes, waiters? People lined up at the movies etc?

Is it really herd to address the gameplay with out nerfing everything? no...but its the easy way when your pumping away on the new product.

Challenge us with NEW challenges, Immerse us in Paragon.
Make a cool place BETTER not just BIGGER.

Mogster

Katahn,

You may think that repurposing is 'NEW'... and if that makes you happy so be it. Ever see the Simpson episode where Malibu Stacy gets a new hat?

There is still no new content for higher lvls... The Nerfs are disapointing to people that actually dont like to respect every issue. If people like crunching numbers thats just swell, I rather just play. Some people have 'fun' with that others dont.

True there are some 'add ons' to existing content whats really new about escorting? its an add on to rescue the hostage...

The Shadow shard was cool becuase it was completely different look wise from anything that was in the game before.

I would like to see the game more immersive at least in atmosphere, perhaps you do not. I would like to get a FEEL for the different zones.

You ask if i would want to learn how to use a power set every time i enter zone, well its the same priciple for every issue now dont you think?

The main thing is that CoH has lost its PvE feel that drew alot of people here and altered game play to Arena and PoV.
Since these are load areas why not do the nerfing there? the goal was to make everyone more 'even' yes? Well, there is a possible solution to adress that issue.

Being creative is about problem solving the current solution is just to average everything out...

If you really want to verify my work history email me here and i will gladly send you a link to my portfolio.

Mogster

Whats wrong with Issue 5?... sadly plenty.

I have been playing this game since issue 1 and it certainly has lost 'its' (lets be honest here) vision and its creative direction since then.

First off before I get started on the nerfs, NEW CONTENT ?!?!

I ask whats really NEW about the game in the last few issues since Issue 3? some rehashed models? Zones?... same old tasks and NO new content for high lvls

Well, you did make some new ATs so we could do the same thing over again and a hat to put on a toons head and make us wait around a lake for countless hoursfor a lochness wanna be. Heres a word GamePLAY, or is it GameWAIT?

As far as the LOOK and FEEL of the game, How about putting some effort into the enviroment? Croatoa is cool, but why does every building look the same inside? Are you not getting tired of that office map within every building? (oh I forgot you do have a lab map). What about skinning some new walls to match the acrhitecture and feel of the zones? would that bust the budget? What about NPCs such as waiters and patrons in the cafes that are always empty? What about Gas stations? they could blow up real good? Airports? a Train Mission where you are actually on the train saving people (look at spiderman 2) Its the little things that add flavor.

How come there are no Bank maps? Banks are prime targets for villians yes?...what would it take to create a 'Foil a bank heist' mission? Throw use something slightly different please at least try to continue creating on the superhero world theme.

What about building more complex interaction with NPCs?
there are several ways to do this...

Now onto the NERFS...

What are you thinking States? Balance? for what PvP?

1. Nerfing Hamio's was not the answer... you POed alot of people that put effort into earning those fair and square. If PvP was a problem and you want balance why not just neutralize ALL enhancements upon entry to the arena? I am sure there is some code that would do that just fine.

At LEAST bump them to 53 so those that ditched theirs in place of the 50% get a fair shake.

2. Same as nerfing peoples powers? Why not just scale it back upon character entry into a PvP zone? Why nerf INV and all the other ATs as you did? To make everyone the same? FOR teamwork? That just adds to mediocrity, we all dont like Vanilla but it seems thats the only flavor CoH is coming in.

You need better creative direction for this game not technical.
Its always easier to take away then it is to ad...but there seems to be stratigic vision implementaion that your public can understand.

I have been in the creative business for 15 years and have done a few games in my day (way back before the cd rom market crashed). I now consult for Fortune 500 companies in online marketing and branding and man! You do have some brand issues States.

You have a real cool job States, I envy you, Now be a CREATIVE director rather then a number cruncher. If its not fun for you anymore pass the torch or hire some people with a clear vision. Give us back the PvE we came here for.

Mogster