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Not every team has a tanker and a controller...
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Then not every team is going to be able to face every threat they encounter. IMO, the goal of CoH teaming is that you can handle most things with most any set of AT's. This doesn't meant that any group of AT's can handle every situation. But that's just me, I know reasonable peeps disagree with me.
But IMO any team can handle ETC's. It's just going to be very hard and very complicated for some teams. Carefully dividing up ETC targets so they get nailed before they debuff, kiting, teleporting, there's lots of ways for Tank- and Controller-less teams to deal with them. They're just difficult, time-consuming, and risky. That's the stuff that annoys us, so it's the stuff that we complain about.
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Then not every team is going to be able to face every threat they encounter. IMO, the goal of CoH teaming is that you can handle most things with most any set of AT's. This doesn't meant that any group of AT's can handle every situation. But that's just me, I know reasonable peeps disagree with me.
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It's not enough for there to be a crap-ton of things you can't (or aren't supposed to be able to) solo? You want to start adding things that are impossible without exactly the right mix of teammates, too?
Are you TRYING to kill the game for people without large SGs?
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Without getting into details, ALL CoT Thorn Casters have been reworked. The amount of control powers these minions have will be severely reduced or outright removed.
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AAARGGH!
I have to agree with MindMasterZero, here -- very disappointed to see this. This was *finally* a way to differentiate the contributions of a Tanker and Controller as supporting roles. A controller can't get folks out of quicksand, sure. But, a controller *can* prevent ETC's from ever getting quicksand off in the first place....
As things stand right now, the usefulness of a controller is far to often redundant with a good tanker. I was happy that there was *finally* a reason for teams to occasionally say, "oh, we'd better get a controller for this mission". It was the first step towards something that's needed to be addressed for a while. I really hope that, by scaling this back, they don't scale it back so far as to make the controller contributions irrelevant.
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Not every team has a tanker and a controller...
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Here, have an obtuse cookie. You've earned it.
My point was, right now, holds have jack [censored] for value on a team with a tanker. Tankers cc better in general anyways. Making mobs have toggles and dangerous powers other than damage (which the tanker ignores) adds value to controller cc, without REQUIRING it. Did I spell it clearly enough?
You're running a mission with 8 people vs ETC's on invincibility? Yeah, that team should *probably* have some kind of support. Hell, I'll go out ona limb and say you should OPTIMALLY have some kind of CC, in the form of a tank, controller, or even a dark defender. Or is every mob supposed to be so pathetic that we can go through missions on auto pilot?
Make them lts' or tweak how their powers work, but dont strip all abilities other than damage from enemies.
Thanks for the heads up. It's nice to get this kind of reassurance that you guys do pay attention and fix problems.
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My point was, right now, holds have jack [censored] for value on a team with a tanker.
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LMAO, are controllers catching the 'Woe is me Bug' from defenders now? I love seeing posts like this, stating that such and such is useless, whether it be an AT or a mechanic such as controller holds. Really shows a lack of comprehension about doing anything in the late game other than watching Fire Tankers herd. 
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Forgive my laziness, for those who are passionate about this issue; but what exactly is the problem with stacked quicksands? I've done hordes of COT casters, and from a controller's perspective, they've never been an issue that led me to cry "nerf!"
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A single minion auto-casted 2 Quicksands and I honestly believe that one of the casts was, in actuality, Tar Patch with the -Res and Slow.
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Ok. What sort of builds did you have available on your team? For instance, did your controller pop in stealthed/inviso to AOE hold them, preventing most/all of them from throwing the QS at you? Did you try teleporting/hovering out, or throwing pets in their LOS so they absorbed the QS attacks?
What were your tactics at the time that were failing? Because the Devs as my witness, I've never had an issue taking these mobs out with a healthy application of tactics based on the team's build. I'm primarily a controller, but I've also done /NRG blaster and Warshade on these mobs, and each one has its own way of dealing with the situation - so that's 3 ATs that, AFAIK, can take these mobs on without realistic suffering.
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My controller, and energy blaster don't specifically have problems with ETCs either. My energy blaster flies, my controller teleports (and also flies), and both have ranged attacks. My squid will probably obliterate the ETCs in most teams when she reaches the appropriate level.
My scrapper (actually, both of them), now that would be different. Neither (in the 30s) have stealth. Neither have any true ranged attacks. Quicksand, as applied by the ETCs can eliminate SR defenses. As in, completely eliminate.
They created the red light/green light arrow for controllers just because there was one case where controllers felt their primary ability was being negated - in an environment where you aren't supposed to solo anyway and usually controllers could either continue to deploy their pets for damage or use their secondaries for team benefit. Controllers weren't utterly negated, just their main ability.
An SR scrapper without range can have her melee attacks negated and her defenses negated simultanously by two quicksands, which you can encounter in a solo heroic mission. All other melee scrappers just get offense significantly negated (by being slowed and unable to reach the ETCs). Insps and tactics notwithstanding, thats a much more extreme situation than "controller can't hold AV" and its not unreasonable to believe that type of thing should be moderated also.
If ETCs deployed an AoE drop that offered mag 3 mez defense to all CoT in range, I'd be similarly concerned about that significantly hurting controllers. Imagine a mission where that was quadruple-stacked, like quicksand currently is. Would it be fair to tell controllers to "use alternate tactics?"
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I would also like to express my desire to moderate the nerfs against the CoT. The Tsoo and the CoT represent what we want out of challenging villain groups. They offer challenges other than merely surviving damage and drawing them close. Groups like Freaks, Crey, and even Rikti and Nemesis, are incredibly boring to fight, simply laying on damage, without engaging the player on any other level, or even using powers that affect each other, vengeance aside.
There's no variety. There's no strategy. There's no challenge other than finding your mezz protection and sticking to it like glue.
Please, don't nerf the villains into mindless damage dealers. It makes the squishies squishier, and artificially inflates Tankers and Scrappers to unreal proportions.
I would also like to see the Earth Thorns toned down a bit, but not completely neutered. There's room in the middle.
I will say it's been very frustrating trying to solo CoT missions - at Heroic! - with my FF/EB defender. Even two or three Earth Thorns laying their Quicksands on me at once effectively negates the +Def of my bubbles, leaving me naked to their attacks and any Guides, Behemoths etc that might be in the vicinity. All I can do is hope to take at least one out with my alpha strike, and then endure the beating from everyone else until the Quicksand(s) finally wear off.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
My two influence:
ETC's have been great fun for my illusion controller (and I'm sure Cind Controllers have felt the same). I confuse the ETC after he's laid down his mudpots, and suddenly, I'm moving free and easy and my foes are slogged down. If it weren't for my pets offing the ETC and causing the mudpots to revert to form, I'd PRAY for ETC's in every mob spawn.
Multiple ETC's in a spawn just take a little longer to control. Plus, while their mudpots are making my life easier, they're kicking the Behemoths and guides up one side of the foyer and down the side hallway.
Oh well.
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My point was, right now, holds have jack [censored] for value on a team with a tanker.
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LMAO, are controllers catching the 'Woe is me Bug' from defenders now? I love seeing posts like this, stating that such and such is useless, whether it be an AT or a mechanic such as controller holds. Really shows a lack of comprehension about doing anything in the late game other than watching Fire Tankers herd.
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Sigh.... Nozybida, I don't know if you *mean* it to come across this way, but the above statement can be translated as:
"I disagree with your opinion. Therefore, this proves that you have less valid late game experience than I do."
Your argument that we must be wrong because we have insufficient late-game experience leaves me.....unconvinced. Although, to give you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps I *have* unwittingly been playing the entire late game by being on fire-tanker herding teams, and just have not noticed. I'll keep an eye out for that. 
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My point was, right now, holds have jack [censored] for value on a team with a tanker.
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LMAO, are controllers catching the 'Woe is me Bug' from defenders now? I love seeing posts like this, stating that such and such is useless, whether it be an AT or a mechanic such as controller holds. Really shows a lack of comprehension about doing anything in the late game other than watching Fire Tankers herd.
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this is what ive read:
defenders are useless, because of controllers
controllers are useless, because of tanks
blasters are useless, because of scrappers
scrappers are useless, because of tanks
so maybe you are on to something, only tanks are not useless.
Liberty:
proud member of the LEGION, SISTERHOOD
@Doctor Photon
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Without getting into details, ALL CoT Thorn Casters have been reworked. The amount of control powers these minions have will be severely reduced or outright removed.
[/ QUOTE ] Can I get back all that debt then? 
Just kidding, hehe, but I am glad these are getting fixed! That quicksand is MURDER in those dungeon corridor on blasters. Fly cannot take you high enough to clear the effect and once you shot anyone BAM your NOT getting away.
*sigh*
Another group for me to steamroll over.
You know, if more villain groups had debuffs like the ETC's, there would be much less reason to nerf people.
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This doesn't speed up the fight, and, in most cases, changes the level of risk for the tanker from 0.0002% chance of dying to 0.0001% chance of dying.
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I strongly suspect this is going to change in the not so distant future.
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As things stand right now, the usefulness of a controller is far to often redundant with a good tanker.
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EVERY AT is redundant. One of the major things that makes teaming bearable in CoH is that you don't have to sit around saying "Shoot, we can't really get this team moving without a Controller/Defender/Tanker/Whatever and there are none on." You can pretty much throw darts at the search screen and, assuming the players are reasonably competent, have a viable team. That's a good thing.
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But wopuldnt it be cool to have synergy? The tanker rounds up, the controller locks down (shutting off mob toggle powers). Both can do their job without the other, both benefit from the presence of the other. For the *majority* of mobs, it doesnt matter if they are held or not, so long as they are focused on the (near unkillable) tanker. When I was leveling up my tanker I was grateful for controllers to be around to *help* (read, I didnt *need* them) with mobs like avalanche shamans. As you rise in level, the value of those holds fade out, since mobs powers get more lame.
What I dont want is the thorns going from a faction with tricks up their sleeves to some bland weenies who just have blasts. It seems thats all people want to encounter... fodder that offers no challenge, and exists only to be rounded up and leisurely nuked. Level 50 skuls in different outfits.
Id rather them tweak the ETC's exp up so that people try and build tactically balanced teams than dumb them down and remove their powers altogether. Put a cap on how many quicksands they can drop, have the power go away when the mob dies, etc, but dont remove it entirely just because its difficult.
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Doesn't help you much if you are solo though. 2 Earth Thorns currently hit harder than a boss does solo. That makes no sense in a risk/reward sense and if you tried to make the experience balance out when you got it up to a group level you'd be giving away the farm in each encounter.
The fact is that it just doesn't work as it is currently done.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.