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Got tired of reading so forgive me if this was said.........
Instead of pushing for no HO's and what not why not push for more ways to get muti-O's. I mean hey yer Lv 45 to 50 why not have the ability to better your toon. I bought this game for the future GvE (good vs evil) so if I have to farm some mob for muti-O's then so be it, lets just have more that one place to get them.
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One of many possible solutions that harm no one.
Along with -
1. A no-hami option like the no travel powers option;
2. Making enhancement types known so if you didn't want a Hami-o fight you wouldn't get one;
3. Limiting HO's to one SO or some other limit.
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here here!
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Yeah. That would be acceptable, too, and give me a reason besides just story to finish up my missions and do the Zulu task forces.
Honestly, I think A) making HOs (or an equivalent) available outside the Hami raid, B) giving an option to turn off HOs in the arena (turning them into SOs for the first applicable type) and C) possibly making the HOs (or equivalent) buyable would go a long way towards quieting the whole debate down. Doing any one of those would irritate some segment of the playerbase, but doing all three would turn the game back into a more egalitarian one. And when I mention "equivalent," I mean things that do the same stuff as HOs, but not HOs. That still leaves open the bragging rights inherent in "I raided Hami this many times and have the HOs to prove it," while still giving others who don't have the opportunity to raid a chance to catch up. If HEOs (Hami Equivalent) were expensive enough, it would also mean there would be something to actually do with influence other than accrue it toward when we'll have to pay rents on SG buildings.
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Instead of pushing for no HO's and what not why not push for more ways to get muti-O's.
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People have asked for this.
Only problem I see is heavy HO heroes making PvP too fast.
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Instead of pushing for no HO's and what not why not push for more ways to get muti-O's.
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People have asked for this.
Only problem I see is heavy HO heroes making PvP too fast.
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I can see that being an issue, too. There's been several suggestions for an option to tone down HOs in PvP (including my own humble suggestion, heh), and without one of those, I think HO combat is going to be fast and pretty boring. It's possible for people to hit enemies out of sighting distance with Dam/Range slotted attacks, and to ignore immense amounts of defense with Acc/Damage. In both cases, it's possible to set a power to hit for 400% damage pretty much 95% of the time, regardless of defenses. I think the most fun fights, tactically, are going to be down in the 25-40 range, where everyone's got enough powers and slots (with SOs) to make the fight entertaining, but not too fast. The high end ones are going to be more akin to cruise missile bombardment.
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with the new drop system, it will be MUCH MUCH harder for someone to spec out their toon, since less HOs drop and Hami spawns less often, and is a little harder. The real problem will be that most characters will get useless HOs, and may have trouble trading them. so, the problem has been stalled... now it really will take endless farming to spec out your toon.
I'm not sure very many people will be interested in doing that, and thus it won't be a noticable or glaring problem.
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I think your being almost hopelessly naive. For starts, by your own admission, you have at least 40. I would extend that to you and your SG. So this is a monsterous advantage to you and your SG. Assuming that you are not intersted in victory by any means but instead want victory by battle. Then this should obviously be a serious situation.
Second to imply that some players will not grind endlessly on the Hamidon to gain advanatge in PvP is ludicrious. The only thing that will happen is the number will drop. So instead of 100 mega elite super players there will 10 mega elite super players. If you want health PvP then there must be no mega elite super players at all. That is not to say no one should have loot, and all classes need to be exactly equal. But more to say that anything that allows one small group of players to absolutely dominate in PvP should be blunted/removed/controlled otherwise PvP as whole suffers.
An important caveat here is that a group that dominates through raw skill is still bad for PvP but at least earns respect. Nothing can be done to prevent highly skilled players from total domination and they must be weathered by the PvP community. From what I have seen the end result is usually a spike in PvP as people try to beat them, then a collapse in PvP as they prove their superority and finally a rebirith in PvP when they get bored and move on. The same happens in sports so should hardly come as a great surprise. These people however do not need any help and most certainly all the idiots players that try to imitate these hyper-skilled players do not need or deserve any additional crutchs.
The next step will be when the super elite players ask for extra special abilities to be given to players based on their PvP success.
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Instead of pushing for no HO's and what not why not push for more ways to get muti-O's.
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People have asked for this.
Only problem I see is heavy HO heroes making PvP too fast.
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I am noy so sure time will be limiting factor since you could just add lives or play in massive groups.
I do think there maybe other significant balance issues however.[*]Fortitude slotted out with HOs gives ... impressive results.[*]Radiation Infection slotted out with HOs is a huge ACC AND Def debuff. [*]300% accuracy is its own obvious problem.[*]What role do certain defender types play when people are at the damage cap and near perfect accuracy.[*]What role is there for power pool def powers?[*]How tough is a regen scrapper with HOs in their heals[*]How powerful is a defender's HO enhanced heal?[*] Even i a controller can rarely get a hold on someone how bad is it going to be when the hold lasts forever?
There are alot of little issue that could crop up. They may never matter maybe the devs have them accounted for all this but by the numbers it looks like HOs will signifcantly limit employable strategies and methods of victory.
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with the new drop system, it will be MUCH MUCH harder for someone to spec out their toon, since less HOs drop and Hami spawns less often, and is a little harder. The real problem will be that most characters will get useless HOs, and may have trouble trading them. so, the problem has been stalled... now it really will take endless farming to spec out your toon.
I'm not sure very many people will be interested in doing that, and thus it won't be a noticable or glaring problem.
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Found on Justice server after the Hami patch:
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OK so there's been a ton of debate and many people are not sure whats what on the schedule. There are currently 2 schedules proposed, and of course the one we've been working on.
I created this post to have people reply with their thoughts on these schedules. We need to come up with a general consensus on what will work best.
Its obvious that Hami's respawn timer is too random to count on two raids per day defininte. Dropping down to one raid per day will give more flexibility for impromptu and private raids to be held in evenings if Hami respawns after a public raid had already been held.
Since no one else has suggested anything perhaps the easiest way to do this would be simply post "Schedule 1" or "Schedule 2" to cast your 'vote' as it were then make comments if you wish. Nothing will ever be perfect but we need to keep the schedule as easy to remember as possible, flexible, and include the majority of players on the server.
Current Raid Schedule: (For Reference)
Monday: 9 p.m.
Tuesday: 12 Noon, 9 p.m.
Wednesday: 9 p.m.
Thursday: 12 Noon, 9 p.m.
Friday: 9 p.m.
Saturday: 12 Noon, 9 p.m.
Sunday: 12 Noon, 9 p.m.
Proposed Schedule 1
Monday 5:00 AM
Tuesday 12:00 AM
Wednesday 3:30 PM
Thursday 8:30 PM
Friday 8:30 PM
Saturday 8:30 PM
Sunday 8:30 PM
Proposed Schedule 2
Monday: 9 p.m.
Tuesday: 12 Noon
Wednesday: 9 p.m.
Thursday: 12 Noon
Friday: 9 p.m.
Saturday: 9 p.m.
Sunday: 12 Noon
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I am spawn of UniqueDragon! I will spaz your dupin rares!
DoIDD
Paragon City Arena League
Justice Server Supergroup Coalition
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OK problem solved......next...thx rocket....geez that was easy...phew 
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Then, can we get hamidon enhancements that enhance defense and something else (recharge, perhaps) by 50% each? Currently, the defense buffs only occur in the triples, which means that +def based power sets won't stand a chance against the +50% acc enhancements.
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I think this is intentional, for the same reason a +ACC SO os 33% and a +Def SO is 20%. Balance reasons, Offense MUST always be better than defense in a dynamic game.
Even if that were necessary, there's a difference between "better than" and "able to disregard completely." Yes, you can slot several acc SOs to overcome defense, but at the cost of damage (making you weaker against those who use resists as their damage mitigation). with HOs, this is not the case. Defense gets owned for free, and you're still capped damage-wise(except scrappers), meaning you lose no effectiveness against other types of damage mitigation.
What about things like Elude where one must currently balance Recharge and Defense? with Hamis you get both and have no need of balancing your slots. Also, keep in mind that defense from multiple sources stack (ie Elude + Toggle + Passive) and are often found within the same powerset, as opposed to ACC which only stacks within a single power and is modified by external ACC buffs. Without the massive differance between ACC Hamis and Def Hamis a hi defense character would flatline all of his opponents accuracies (this is excluding multiple defenders aiding the attacker without supporting defenders counter-aiding the person being attacked).
Something I've recently be come quite concerned about is the damage/range boosters. With 4, 5, or 6 of them, Blasters can shoot people who are literally outside of visual range. This is a BIG problem from a PvP perspective.
Assuming Elude provides 60% defense (as I understand it the generally accepted figure), then an SR scrapper with 6 HOs in EVERY power (that's 42 slots) would have 252% defense. Against 300% accuracy (assuming it's multiplicative), the to-hit chance becomes 48%. This is actually some damage mitigation. SR scrappers are lucky, they actually get something, if they spend an insane amount of slots/HOs, more than the opponent has to spend to get to that acc.
But let's look at ff defenders. If they have their 3 main bubbles 6-slotted with HOs, they provide total defense of 91% to their teammates (35% to themselves). When you're facing 300% accuracy, that 91% doesn't do anything at all. You would have to have 3(!) ff defenders, all heavily slotted with HOs, to even come close to offsetting the inherent acc which HOs can provide. So, if everyone has +300% accuracy due to HOs, exactly what use is a ff defender? Or even 2 of them? No use at all, at least from a damage mitigation standpoint.
Ice tank? Worse off than the SR scrapper, by a long shot. With their toggles 6-slotted with HOs, they can reach about 100% defense. Energy absorption provides base +10% defense for every enemy in range when it goes off. Presuming it was 6-slotted with HOs, it would provide +28% for each enemy in range. What that means is that an Ice tank would have to have at least 4 enemies in range to possibly break a 95% chance to hit. I don't honestly think he's going to have 4 enemies in range of ea very often in pvp. That's assuming he doesn't get killed before he can do it because he has no damage mitigation.
You know that by making the choice to play a Defender you chose the SUPPORT role of the game right. Now dont get me wrong I love healers and they should be able to have fun in the arena, but I think it is kinda wierd to compare a defender with any type of damage dealer. For fun I guess defenders will have to fight contrlers
What exactly are you referring to?
Just some of the posts I have read about how Defenders feel left out. Thats it
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You know that by making the choice to play a Defender you chose the SUPPORT role of the game right. Now dont get me wrong I love healers
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'healers'
snerksnerkgigglesnerk
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and they should be able to have fun in the arena, but I think it is kinda wierd to compare a defender with any type of damage dealer.
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Yep. Because my powers don't deal damage, they deal tummy tickles and pretty rainbows. Let's just see how the chickens hatch before we go counting them, eh? 
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Just some of the posts I have read about how Defenders feel left out. Thats it
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Buffing and debuffing defenders are complaining that, because of HOs, they can't even contribute in a group PvP setting. You know, where support classes might expect to contribute?
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Nothing can be done to prevent highly skilled players from total domination and they must be weathered by the PvP community
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U really need to get your head out of your [censored]. This isn't a game of skill. If anything it's a contest of wits and how you've constructed your binds if u use them... That still has nothing to do w/ skill.
A skill is learning to weld, plumbing, being an electrician, building wooden ships in bottles. These things all include skills.
PLaying a mmorpg is not a skill. This whole battle on the boards is not about making this a skillful game. If it was, we'd all not be able to increase our toons lvls and we would all have the same power choices available to us much like counterstrike or Battlefield. These games come close to using something resembling skill. CoH, does not.
People who think of themselves too highly call themselves skilled players in this game.
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You guys with this "skilled" arguement are killing me here, have you played PvP in other MMOs?
Yes skill DOES have a good deal to do with it BUT so do the "behind the scenes" numbers. Also people making the "skilled" arguement seem to forget that some skilled PvPers are going to ALSO be the ones who have fully-slotted HOs. Hell the skileld PvPers are going to be MORE LIKELY to put in the time it takes to get all those HOs because they are competitive.
Not to mention, in an MMO where numbers play a big part in fighting mechanics, if one guy has especially more powerful "equipment" than the other he has to suck pretty bad to lose to someone with much crapper "equipment."
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EXACTLY! You are correct. Those who spent the time to figure out how to beat Hamidon legitimately, or who have the prowess to lead or organize a raid are often the most skilled players in the game. Combine that with the equipment advantage, and you've got a very tough opponent, even if you DO have Hamihancers.
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I may be a little bit confused, but, it may seem, perhaps, that, based on that assumption, we're judging skill in the ENTIRE GAME OF "CITY OF HEROES" purely on the basis of whether or not you've beaten Hamidon?
I'm sure that there are those who have raided Hamidon who will say that they know people who haven't raided Hamidon that are just as skilled, maybe even beter than they are.
I don't like to think that defeating Hamidon is the *only* measuring stick of skill in the game.
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...EXACTLY! You are correct. Those who spent the time to figure out how to beat Hamidon legitimately, or who have the prowess to lead or organize a raid are often the most skilled players in the game. Combine that with the equipment advantage, and you've got a very tough opponent, even if you DO have Hamihancers.
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I may be a little bit confused, but, it may seem, perhaps, that, based on that assumption, we're judging skill in the ENTIRE GAME OF "CITY OF HEROES" purely on the basis of whether or not you've beaten Hamidon?
I'm sure that there are those who have raided Hamidon who will say that they know people who haven't raided Hamidon that are just as skilled, maybe even beter than they are.
I don't like to think that defeating Hamidon is the *only* measuring stick of skill in the game.
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I think you missed one specific word that he used, I'll just make it a little more obvious for you
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all enhancements are loot. the whole game already is loot based. this player paradigm that its not has been flawed from the start. The point is the only loot thats relatively difficult to get (i.e. you cant just purchase it) is HOs and 51+ SOs.
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There's a difference between loot and phat lewt, and you know that. HOs are phat lewt. THAT is what they've always touted, but they've sometimes been lazy and said "loot" instead. SOs over 51 can be gotten through normal play, either soloing or teamed. Task Force special enhancements can be done with small teams at any time. Hamidon requires massive raids that have to be preplanned and by their nature mean that fairly large segments of the playerbase will not have time/resources to do. In addition, there are less favored ATs on Hamidon raids that regularly don't get invited. Stop trying to derail the discussion by splitting hairs.
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And that is the part that kinda buggs me. PLers have had access to Hami for over 8 months now and have had plenty of time to change ALL their enhancers to Hami enhancers. There should be three 40+ weight classes 40-44, 45-49, and then 50.
There's something that renders this entire conversation completely irelevant. I know what it is, but I'm not about to give it away in the hopes of jinxing PvP for myself. I have no HO's myself, but i'm not worried about those who do. Anyone care to take a guess why?
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OK, this is rediculous now. All you people quivering and quaking over HOs And why? Ooooo, they're not fair.....I don't wanna farm for extra stuff.......I do not think it evens out things when a lower lvl person or same lvl player goes up against someone when they do not have it. Well guess what? TOUGH SH#*!
Why are some people rich and others poor? What you don't wanna work and do some things like we have to in life to get ahead? Then settle for what you got or do something about it like say......Work for it. What you don't want to? Fine! But do not go and take it away from those willing to go the extra mile to be better. Do we put wieghted bands and Anklets on the better fighter in the ring to even things up when he has trained to be better than others? Do we shorten the bats on superior baseball players? Do we krack the knees of fast running backs? No we do not. So those of you who do not want to push and do the things you need to be superior for PvP when others are willing to? Man-up and accept your fate or do something about.
Goddamned communists!
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Interesting point... It's the kind of thing I've considered every time this kind of debate comes up. I tend to agree, that in the United States, nearly anyone can be a success if they're willing to work at it.
Of course there are those who hit a streak of great luck and are a success without putting any effort into it. And there are those who constantly hit bad luck and never go anywhere in live.
Despite that, all in all, there really is no excuse not to do well. However, that's in America. There are parts of the world where people have no hope whatsoever of getting out of poverty, and I think it's something that most people can't even imagine without experiencing it first hand.
CoH, and any MMORPG for that matter, while not reflecting anything on that scale, really are a simplified mirror of society. The first obstacle is time investment. Some people just don't have the time to put into an MMORPG that others do. You can't really fault those players for having more important things to do with their time especially considering that they're paying the same $15 a month.
That said, I do agree that those players that invest more time in the game should be rewarded for their efforts. However, there is a point at which things get excessive.
Also, unlike real life, where resources exist to ensure most people's success, MMORPG worlds eventually stifle player's progress. Eventually a few elite guilds control the high-end content making it a lot harder for other players to get involved and get their fair share of the rewards.
Human nature is human nature, regardless of whether its real life or in a game. I think there's a tendency to abuse more in games because there is nothing real at stake, and its much more impersonal an environment. Also there are no laws beyond the EULA and there is no real police force so it's much tougher to enforce laws.
I don't think everyone should get free access to Hamidon enhancements. If you've worked for them then you deserve the reward. However, farming them is an abuse of the system. In the strictest sense of roleplay, this is a role-playing game, heroes wouldn't be going back over and over again to Hamidon strictly to get some enhancements.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what kind of advantage those enhancements provide. If a good player without them can defeat a player with them, then I'll be satisfied. If players with those enhancements dominate the arena regardless of skill level then we have a problem.
here here!