Changes to Rage

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Once again, I find myself agreeing 100% with Goldie.

Just take out Rage and replace it with Build Up.

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Build up sucks as well. and isn't really effective for an SS tank. since we don't really have AoE powers its build up doesn't last long enough to really do damage.

Rage, when its on, makes me comparable in damage to the fire tankers i hang with. without it i'm a second class citizen.

Why do the devs think it needs a negative effect? I can see if they raised SS damage to be equal to battleaxe or fire tankers and made rage a + bonus beyond that with a nerf at the end. Currently i see SS as a second class tank. I had fun with him. and made it work to the end. But with the current changes i am not happy at all, and probably won't play him much.

Nice. Rage 1.0 had the POSSIBILITY of being a suicide pill. Rage 2.0 is a GUARANTEED suicide pill. And now, Rage 3.0 is a guaranteed GROUP suicide pill. Look, if you insist on doing this, why not just save our computers the animation time and just have it immediately send the entire group to the hospital the moment it is activated.

Rage is supposed to be what our CHARACTERS do when the power is activated. Rage is not what the PLAYER is supposed to do when it is activated.

I don't know. Are the Devs TRYING to make me not want to play this game?? Because if they are, they are succeeding....

Hmmm, I was going to say "what's the big deal w/ not being able to attack for few seconds, after all you're tankers, you're suppose to absorb the damage, let the scrappers dish it out" but if you can't taunt in that period then it's really screwed up. It's one thing to prevent tankers from contributing their puny damage for few seconds it's another to completely prevent them from doing their job as tankers.

As far as the endurance drop - isn't it still hell of a lot better to loose a fixed amount of end rather than all of it like it was w/ Rage 2.0? All you need to do is pop a blue before it drops and you won't even notice it.

I can deal with all of it--reduced defense, 25% end drop, and 10 second no attack--as long as I can still Taunt. Even with Taunt, however, it still seems a bit much for a 7th tier above-average damage and accuracy boost.

Dwimble

Sorry Dwimble... but you are really lowering your expectations if you except Rage 3.0 as long as it allows taunting.

Lets get some facts straight here:
1) SS does NOT do the same damage potential as most of the other Tanker Secondaries (Axe, Energy Melee, etc).

2) Not only do these other secondaries hit harder but *drum roll please* they also get a BUILD UP as a bonus which lets them do even MORE damage.......

So what do we get? We get our own build up power that when activated allows us to do COMPARABLE damage in comparison to Axe, Fire, etc.... which, BTW still doesn't make up for these other sets getting a build up for additional OOMPH.

Now what's the cost of Rage? You know... the power that allows us to compete damage wise with other Tanker Secondaries? Well lets see:

1) 25% endurance hit
2) Defense hit
3) 15 seconds of Inability to ATTACK!

What penalties do the other sets get, you may ask? NONE!!!

Why does Rage even HAVE to have a penalty in the first place??

If it MUST have one, then just give us a 20% end drop like Hasten...

If that is unacceptable... How about this:

When Rage expires, your ATTACKS ARE SLOWED for 10 seconds (-25% attack rate from exhaustion) and you are slightly more vulnerable (-5% def debuff).


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Something along this idea I could possibly live with.... Possibly...

The important things (no toggle drop and ability to TANK) must not be compromised!

Sigh

I'm really getting tired of these UNDOCUMENTED changes. Sure its on TEST but nowadays that doesn't mean all that much *still is flabbergasted that Rage 2.0 made it to the live servers*.

Dev's you better start opening a dialogue before you ALIENATE a large percentage of your players. Talk to US... ask us how to best come up with a compromise. Stop making these off the wall changes! Listen to your players, because your own staff doesn't seem to have the insight to come up with a good solution!

QF

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I'm really getting tired of these UNDOCUMENTED changes.

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Undocumented and no discussion.

There still isn't a "Currently Testing" that mentions Rage. Seems we are really low on the Devs radar.

Ok, I think I have it figured out. Rage HAS to have a penalty because of all the Fire/SS, Ice/SS, and Stone/SS tanks out there. Rage affects all the damage powers in their primaries so it must make them into Damage Monsters. It is just Inv that doesn't have that so they are the ones getting hosed. So, even though it is a concept breaker (concept is having less and less to do with this game with each update, away), I want to have a damage aura added to Invincibility. That way, all the primary sets are evened out.

So now the devs are politicians, where the stated reason for the change isn't the current/actual reason?

If they want to say that, fine, just say it. There's no reason for this smokescreen issue of helping out casual players. And, if that is the case, just lower the effective time and make it non-perma. Or maybe just give a debuff of some kind after rundown.

This is rage, not hulking-out. I don't think we need to treat it like we just fired off the wave motion gun and did something so powerful we should be shut-down mid combat.

How about dropping all the self-disorient, drains and other junk off everyone's ultimate powers? It sure would make my ultimate feel actually ultimate, instead of a situational panic-button.

I can see powers that go way beyond the norm having a penalty for their use. The thing is, rage isn't one of them. If the devs want to have this kind of a penalty for it's use, it should increase both my enhanced damage AND end regen by 800% for the 2 minutes. Otherwise, SS tanks are just being their whipping boys.

I like this new version (From what I hear)

Afterall, WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO COUNTER THE EFFECTS
For the damage boost as long as it is, we should suffer on the back end. Its a good balancer. For those who can't understand why powers like this need to have any balancer at all, it is because without balance there is no choices and no tactical decision making. Every power has balancers and usually it is endurance, recharge, and animation time. Hasten and Stamina mitigate those balance issues but they do not remove them completely. These changes are designed to make it so they can still allow Rage to be permanent if you so choose but more likely, you will look at a combat situation and decide if it is a rage situation. Is it worth it? Its not that it is a panic button, but sometimes it is not cost-effective and therefore you are making an informed tactical decision every time you use it. That makes for a better game.

I'm concerned that 15 seconds may be too long though in that it would be a very frustrating time, especially if the Tanker cannot taunt. Still, I think I could live with it.

The endurance drop means you have to plan ahead if you don't want your toggles to drop which means it rewards moderation over spamming keys.

I would start using rage again if it went live like this. I haven't been able to use rage without unstoppable since the current implementation.

Eh, I guess it's at least an OK solo power, which is an improvment over the massive nerf that went live - I guess that was Cryptic's plan. This does nothing to address the redundancy of tankers in most grouping situations, but since that doesn't appear to have ever been on Cryptic's radar, c'est la vie. I hope they don't drop the ball as horribly on other ATs as they have on tankers, since I do have some alts that are still fun to play. It appears my regen scrapper has official approval to be utterly uber, but that gets old after awhile.

Allright now i have to disagree with many of you tankers. I do not mind losing the ability to attack, losing some Defense, and losing 15 endurance points. Thats fine by me because it does not drop my toggles. I do agree it should not affect Taunt but lets not go to the well of Powergaming as its annoying. As one player said Penalties are not supposed to be countered and I am sorry they aren't. This is not a survivability issue because if your tank cannot surive 15 seconds of assault without taking an offensive action....well quite frankly your tank sucks (exception malta sappers.).

The only thing i can see that would make it a risky adventure is the inability to taunt. Taunt should not be affected but other then that I have no problem with Rage 3.0. Then again I use Unstoppable which many tanks claim is useless because it cannot be perma......

Just allow Taunt and Rage is perfect and if you disagree well....we all know now what the true issue is.

Rage is definately not a power that is going to be perma but then again does it need too? I know that i can survive without using it for every mob. Now, SS tanks we should start complaining about something very much needed....SS in general. Our Attacks cost A LOT for such meager damage. Energy melee does a lot more damage for a lot less End.

My only qualms about the 10 seconds of inactivity is teaming. Soloing, it should not pose a major issue. The 10 seconds of no actions will be annoying though, and more of a player penalty then a character one. 10 seconds can be an eternity in battle, making it hard to hold aggro. Also a warning indicator would be nice, not just for Rage, but also Unstoppable, Elude, MoG, etc.

I have one other observation that I'd like to see if people concur.

Does it seem that the devs seem to make the changes to Rage with the assumption that the tanker in question is an Invulnerability tanker?

It does to me. I mean, Statesman's first post only cites an Invulnerability power. Invulnerability tankers are not the only tankers out there.

How does the end cost at the beginning and end of Rage (I feel this is double jeopardy) affect more toggle heavy sets like Ice and Stone?

What about the defense penalty that affects any other tanker set more harshly than Invulnerability....especially Ice primary?

And the inactivity? Statesman stated that toggle dropping was too harsh because we could do our job. How is the inactivity time really any different?

Honestly, I loved the changes to Invulnerability from I3, but I feel they've been completely botching Rage. The penalties are still too harsh in my opinion.

I've just heard from someone that the new Rage negates the taunt effects of Primary aura powers too (such as Invincibility). Can someone confirm?

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Afterall, WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO COUNTER THE EFFECTS

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Why are we not supposed to counter the effects? If this was some Nova-like power then yes I would agree. But it is not.

All this power does is add about 30 points to my haymaker.

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For the damage boost as long as it is, we should suffer on the back end. Its a good balancer. For those who can't understand why powers like this need to have any balancer at all, it is because without balance there is no choices and no tactical decision making. Every power has balancers and usually it is endurance, recharge, and animation time. Hasten and Stamina mitigate those balance issues but they do not remove them completely. These changes are designed to make it so they can still allow Rage to be permanent if you so choose but more likely, you will look at a combat situation and decide if it is a rage situation. Is it worth it? Its not that it is a panic button, but sometimes it is not cost-effective and therefore you are making an informed tactical decision every time you use it. That makes for a better game.

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Everything you say here is true of Original-Rage but not so true of new Rage.

New Rage is more of a strategic decision. Old Rage was tactical because it was all about getting hit during that 15 second window.

Why we need more powers like Old-Rage not less

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I've just heard from someone that the new Rage negates the taunt effects of Primary aura powers too (such as Invincibility). Can someone confirm?

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I just tested it on test server, when Rage drops so does the taunt of Invincibility. I bugged it.

With the exception of Invincibility losing taunt when Rage drops, I like this new rage better than whats on live.

My tank is lvl 48 inv/ss.

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I've just heard from someone that the new Rage negates the taunt effects of Primary aura powers too (such as Invincibility). Can someone confirm?

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I just tested it on test server, when Rage drops so does the taunt of Invincibility. I bugged it.

With the exception of Invincibility losing taunt when Rage drops, I like this new rage better than whats on live.

My tank is lvl 48 inv/ss.

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Of course it's better than what's on live. They completely broke the power. Now we get what they give us or suffer with the total end drop on live.

I still thinks its broken on test too.

They should have rolled back Rage until they rebalanced it. It was just completely irresponsible of the devs to leave Rage the way it is currently.

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When Rage expires, your ATTACKS ARE SLOWED for 10 seconds (-25% attack rate from exhaustion) and you are slightly more vulnerable (-5% def debuff).

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That right there, is prolly the best idea I've heard of yet! Hell, you could prolly even throw in a 20% end drop, and that'd be more reasonable that what's being offered. States, I hope you (or someone) is reading this. The penalties are there, they're not over-the-top, and... they make sense! Seriously. All I can say is compare Risk/Reward of Rage to... Hasten. Hasten > Rage. Why does Rage get the short end of the stick? C'mon... give SS a break, for cryin' out loud. The changes to Rage so far are stupid.

Steel Vengeance - Level 50 Inv/SS Tanker, Champion Server

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When Rage expires, your ATTACKS ARE SLOWED for 10 seconds (-25% attack rate from exhaustion) and you are slightly more vulnerable (-5% def debuff).

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Personally, I'd prefer a damage debuff. I'd take a 100% damage debuff for 10 seconds over the can't-attack thing. Just let me hold aggro and keep punching the bad guys. A slow is just going to cause aggro issues as well.

If the goal is to make us not have any offense for 10 seconds after the power wears off, fine, do that through a damage debuff, but don't remove our tanking ability as well by shutting off toggles or not allowing us to affect anyone with taunt, taunt auras, or punch-voke.

I still believe that the power should simply be an endurance for damage swap to make us compare with an Axe or Energy Melee tanker that slots buildup as much as we slot rage. No need for a drawback at all if this is all it does, just adjust the damage boost accordingly.

However, if we can't have this, I want a solution that doesn't make me not-a-tank for 10-15 seconds every 2 minutes. A damage debuff would be ok, an increased recharge time on the power itself would be ok, and a higher defense debuff would be ok, but accuracy reductions, slows, toggle drops from stuns or endurance drains, and being unable to attack/taunt/use auras for aggro control are counter to the ATs purpose.

Argh!!!!!!

So again there is a Massive Nerf to a Tanker power and now they tone it down a bit everyone is like " Oh that's so much better".

Well I for one am sick of it!!!

They slip in a Mega Nerf then role it back to a Half Mega Nerf and everyone's saying "yummy Dev's thank you for my spanking" or coming up with other ways to nerf it when it doesn't need a Nerf in the first place!!!

Well here is a news Flash.......

There was nothing wrong with pre I3 Rage! it was fine! it did what it said on the tin and was not, repeat not Broken or Uber! as someone said above it added about 30 damage to my Haymaker, which just about brings SS up to the damage levels of Fire or Axe, without Rage SS is at best a second rate attack!

Put Rage back as it was Pre I3 and leave SS (and Inv for that matter) Alone, SWING THE BLOODY NERF BAT AT SOMEONE ELSE FOR A BLOODY CHANGE!!!!

Rage on Live = Smeg!
Rage on Test = Smeg!

Rage will now be living in my third tray along with Brawl and be dropped on my Tanks next respec, even if the test version goes Live!

What I really hate is HAVING to take certain powers just so I can play. And Stamina is just such a power. When everyone takes a power, it's no longer special. (Yes, I have watched The Incredibles a lot )

Now it and Conserve Power are as close to obligatory as can be. It's the only way I'm going to be able to keep my endurance above 25 when playing just so I keep my toggles at the drop.

How about altering the endurance drop from 25% of "maximum end" to 25% of "current end". That way Rage itself can't flatline you but your toggles will if they suck up enough before your next recovery ping. Frankly I could live with 50% if it was this way.


Anyway Devs just stop trying to balance Rage with roleplaying flavour and just treat it as a build-up. Let the players supply the roleplaying concept for it. I'm not an angsty raging berserker (I'll leave that for a Vampire MMO).

Please see my post here as to why both the live Rage and the test Rage don't work.

EDIT: Weird, one of the mods must've deleted and/or moved some posts around. It seems to be working right now.

Your link is taking me to a blank post.