Just tried the Rage fix on the test server and I have to say I think the Devs got it right. The endurance drain is manageable. I should have timed it, but it seemed to me the no attack time lasted for only a short while I would guess 10 seconds. This is much better than what is on live and what it originally was.
I think because of the 2 minute duration of rage, there needs to be some sort of drawback. I would much rather lose my ability to taunt for 10 seconds, than have my toggles drop to a stun or disorient. That doesnt mean I dont care if my party dies while I cant taunt it just means Ill have to work around the drawback. And it seems pretty easy to work around. Dont run into a fight when you know your Rage is gonna end. Weve all waited before engaging a fight for RA, PA, Nova, Invis, to recharge now we can add waiting for rage to wear off to the list. Its part of teamwork and getting along as a team. Besides, Ive gone entire missions without needing to taunt past the initial engagement taunt.
Im a lvl 41 Fire/SS Tanker who never had the benefit of stun protection against Rage. I took it right away (lvl 28, I think?) and played around the stun disorient. I only died once or twice during those 12 levels because of getting stunned during a fight and that was because I ran into a fight forgetting I was gonna stun. My fault. I used Rage all the time, it was so easy to work around. And now? I feel like the Devs have awarded my vigilance with the new fix. Its hardly a drawback at all.
Of course if I never got stunned in the first place with Rage due to Unyielding or something, I might be upset that I now had to deal with a drawback. Dont worry, youll find a way to play around it. Thats half the fun of the game overcoming challenges.
Subroc - Lvl 41 Fire/SS Tank
people still have rage? wow.. well if they ever get it playable again make sure to let me know so I can concider taking it again.
Rage is suicide now. If your going to make the cost that big then i want to be doing 200 percent damage and throw in a hasten bonus as well. or after everyone of your changes i want a free respec so i can fix my tank.
Why all the nerfs anyway? a tank is a tank we get in the way so all the glass cannons and healers can do their job. so let us do ours. If your trying to make everyone equal for pvp then scrape pvp cause its going to be a waste of time. If you want to fix something change it so i dont have to get the first power in my secondary power set. Im a Inv/SS i pretty much have 2 brawls. Jab isnt worth slotting.
please fix your fixes
which rage? Rage "1.0" and Rage "2.0" both sucked and Rage "3.0" is a blessing. Sorry, but the only annoyance of the new rage is we cannot use Taunt. We tanks can survive almost anything beyond the 10-15 seconds....so what is the complaint? If it was a damage debuff then it would mean nothing because we would not hold aggro through a weak punchvoke. If we are actaully talking about serving our team....Comeon now a well made team would not care if the Tank sat and read a newspaper while they fought as long as he held Aggro.
So what is the arguement truthfully about? I say aslong as I can taunt its a welcomed addition.
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which rage? Rage "1.0" and Rage "2.0" both sucked and Rage "3.0" is a blessing. Sorry, but the only annoyance of the new rage is we cannot use Taunt. We tanks can survive almost anything beyond the 10-15 seconds....so what is the complaint? If it was a damage debuff then it would mean nothing because we would not hold aggro through a weak punchvoke. If we are actaully talking about serving our team....Comeon now a well made team would not care if the Tank sat and read a newspaper while they fought as long as he held Aggro.
So what is the arguement truthfully about? I say aslong as I can taunt its a welcomed addition.
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As it stands right now, you cannot Taunt or anything else of a non-self only nature in that 10 second period. And by testing people have done, our passive abilities (Invinc, Chilling Embrace, Mud Pots, etc.) are not even generating aggro in that window.
*sigh...* I give up, see that scrapper second from the bottum of my sig ? thats where I'll be untill they nerf him (Regen). At least he's fun.
I hear you, blue.
I've touched my tanker twice since I3 came out (though I did a lot testing on the test server). Once was to trade some influence, the other was for a brief spot of roleplay that got interrupted when all the west coast servers crashed.
Otherwise, I've been playing unlisted alts.
I still say three downsides is to much for not enough of a boost!
Everyone else here seems to be excepting the new Rage on Test as a god send, It's still a Pile of Smeg!!!
Put the Bugger back how it was before I3, it was fine!!!
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I still say three downsides is to much for not enough of a boost!
Everyone else here seems to be excepting the new Rage on Test as a god send, It's still a Pile of Smeg!!!
Put the Bugger back how it was before I3, it was fine!!!
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I'm convincedthese changes are because of the new PVP stuff. I've seen it before, massive and mostly undocumented change to a charater type/ability because players are now going to be using it against each other.
Doesn't mean that I enjoy, or even respect the changes at all or the reasons behind them. I find the new rage to be an insult and I feel I'm being punished for other player's desire to PVP. I have no interest in PVP at all. None, but I get to watch my AT primary and secondary be changed for PVP balance. I wish powers would just work different in PVP situations so those of us who want to PVP can learn and strategize and those of us who don't want to can keep playing our way.
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I still say three downsides is to much for not enough of a boost!
Everyone else here seems to be excepting the new Rage on Test as a god send, It's still a Pile of Smeg!!!
Put the Bugger back how it was before I3, it was fine!!!
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I'm convincedthese changes are because of the new PVP stuff. I've seen it before, massive and mostly undocumented change to a charater type/ability because players are now going to be using it against each other.
Doesn't mean that I enjoy, or even respect the changes at all or the reasons behind them. I find the new rage to be an insult and I feel I'm being punished for other player's desire to PVP. I have no interest in PVP at all. None, but I get to watch my AT primary and secondary be changed for PVP balance. I wish powers would just work different in PVP situations so those of us who want to PVP can learn and strategize and those of us who don't want to can keep playing our way.
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I personally dont think the changes are do to PvP since I think that would cal for to many other ATs to be changed also. Now this isnt an exact quote but Statesman said somewhere (to lasy to look it up) I believe in Q & A 2 that they didnt want characters to play differantly in PvP than in the normal game. That makes sense to me, however I feel anygame that wasnt designed for PvP to begin with shouldnt have it. I remember trying the PvP servers in EQ and that was a horrible unbalanced nightmare, even in DAoC which was built for PvP some classes where just WAY stronger. Mages/Wizards have always ruled PvP so who will rule it in CoH ? CONTROLERS, for those of you who want to PvP you better build your Cont up on that note, I dont think Rage could be so over powered that it needs a change for PvP 
On a lighter note (sorta) I was reading another post where the poster was jokeing is a news cast fashion about how super strength isnt really super, I got a great laugh out of it cause in the end the two tanks who where witnessing events the next day turned to each other and one said "well, guess I'll go reroll a scrapper" to darn funny since thats what I did and I'm sure a few others have too ;p
Oh yeah and back to Rage, I could live with and be happy with a 20 or 30 point endurance drop and a penalty of -5% to defense but from where I'm sitting the 10-15 seconds where you cant do anything is no good. I just cant see enojoying a char that every two minutes has to stop and stand around for a reason other than resting endurance which with stamina I never need to do, plus it seems a little dangerous to have a tank thats gonna drop in the middle of an extended long fight and not be able to help his team, thus not be tanking. Currently and level 40 my groups fights last longer than two minutes, I often use rage 2 or 3 times in a fight and when/if I ever solo, we all know tank fights are generally long and slow, lets not make it slower and boreing.
Hell, I'd be fine with a 75% end loss, and a -5% def debuff. As long as the end loss isn't 100%. But this can't do anything for 10 seconds thing has GOT to go.
I dislike the 10 second too, but -75% end loss is still too much for Rage. -25% is fair and close to Hasten's crash, the def debuff for 10 seconds really is a penalty that fits (too tired to dodge), and even the 10 seconds of no hostile actions fits as well, it's just stacking all 3 is a bit much.
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I dislike the 10 second too, but -75% end loss is still too much for Rage. -25% is fair and close to Hasten's crash, the def debuff for 10 seconds really is a penalty that fits (too tired to dodge), and even the 10 seconds of no hostile actions fits as well, it's just stacking all 3 is a bit much.
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Personally, I'm seeing no reason why I shouldn't dump rage and take hasten instead. I really need times where my DPS can go up dramatically and the changes to rage are just too absurd. Give me an end drop doesn't wipe me totally out, give me a defense debuff that means that I can't dodge, but take away my ability to do anything? That's absurd for an AT power.
I would have to agree. Hasten would be much better than Rage given the current penalties to Rage on Test. Roughly, it is:
Rage 80% increase to base damage and Acc
Hasten 33% increase to enhanced damage and 5% Def buff
Hasten will also mean that any self buff I have will be available more often. Rage just isn't worth it anymore.
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Rage 80% increase to base damage and Acc
Hasten 33% increase to enhanced damage and 5% Def buff
Hasten will also mean that any self buff I have will be available more often. Rage just isn't worth it anymore.
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I am just reading this wrong ? Hasten is an increase to attack rate, meaning your attacks recharge faster, not an increase to the damage, although increased attack rate increases your damage output. And other than rage what self buffs do you have ? Dont get me wrong Hasten is still a good choice and yes Rage currently isnt worth haveing, the post just seems abit unclear.
So in short Super Strength now has Rage and Hurl (which is what I feel like doing) that suck. Not to mention if your an Invul. you get Unstoppable to help kill you too.
If you are an Inv/SS Tank you have four powers that are utter crap!
Hand Clap.....Hurl....Rage......Unstoppable...... 
I wonder if there are any Dustman jobs (thats Garbage man to you Yanks) going in Paragon City, it's the only thing I can see my Tank being any good at anymore..........
Sorry if I'm repeating something upthread, and sorry if I'm stepping on any SS toes here, but if Rage *has* to have a downside, why not replace the 10-sec pseudo-paralysis with a however-many--you-think-is-fair-sec damage debuff? That way Taunt still works and Punchvoke still works but the frontloaded damage from Rage is still balanced off.
Yes/No?
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Sorry if I'm repeating something upthread, and sorry if I'm stepping on any SS toes here, but if Rage *has* to have a downside, why not replace the 10-sec pseudo-paralysis with a however-many--you-think-is-fair-sec damage debuff? That way Taunt still works and Punchvoke still works but the frontloaded damage from Rage is still balanced off.
Yes/No?
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Theres about eleventybillion rage alternatives that have been said at one time or another. like Rage slowing attacks for 10-20 seconds, or Damage is x2, but attack END costs are x1.5 during the rage, or Rage as a toggle a-la targeting drone but effected damage, not accuracy etc etc..
eleventy billion different alternatives have been mentioned, I expect another million-trillion to come up at some point or another. And Devs, even if these aren't the greatest ideas.. try and remember that the reason that the players are offering up every possible alt-Rage they can think of is because these Rage changes are really bad...
I was just happy with Rage 1.0 I get damage in exchange for a defense drop and a pretty high disorient chance. I had rage 2 lotted with recharge, and 2 slotted with accuracy and I was happy. I had the little red button that I can press when I needed extra damage or accuracy and yes it got me killed a fair amount of times when that disorent kicked in, but I never ever complained.
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If you are an Inv/SS Tank you have four powers that are utter crap!
Hand Clap.....Hurl....Rage......Unstoppable......
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I have a friend with an Inv/SS tank. He likes Hand Clap. It's a nice way to grab aggro for him. He hasn't gotten Foot Stomp yet, but still.
He likes Hurl. He feels it's nice to have a ranged attack outside of temp powers.
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If you are an Inv/SS Tank you have four powers that are utter crap!
Hand Clap.....Hurl....Rage......Unstoppable......
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I have a friend with an Inv/SS tank. He likes Hand Clap. It's a nice way to grab aggro for him. He hasn't gotten Foot Stomp yet, but still.
He likes Hurl. He feels it's nice to have a ranged attack outside of temp powers.
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That's all well and good, but liking something doesn't make it good, I also Like Hurl but the Damage is poor and the range is so short you may as well go up to the bad guy and use Haymaker.
I still say put Rage back how it was before I3, it was fine.
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That's all well and good, but liking something doesn't make it good, I also Like Hurl but the Damage is poor and the range is so short you may as well go up to the bad guy and use Haymaker.
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Hand Clap is a good way to stun an AV/Boss, and they don't KB. I wish that could be debuffed altogether.
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I still say put Rage back how it was before I3, it was fine.
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Agree. But, I would also be ok w/ a 10-15sec debuff of same buff size (-80% dmg/acc).
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I also Like Hurl but the Damage is poor and the range is so short you may as well go up to the bad guy and use Haymaker.
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Hurl is the exact same damage as Haymaker. The range is 40, which isn't that bad.
The only thing that's kind of poor about Hurl is the long animation, and that you can only throw a rock.
Goldbrick 50 inv/ss tank
Other 50s: Power Beam, Rocky Mantle, STORMIE Agent, Matchless, Major Will, Knightmayor, Femstone, Space Maureen, Crimebuster Ako, Dr. Twilight, Doc Champion, American Gold Eagle
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Rage 80% increase to base damage and Acc
Hasten 33% increase to enhanced damage and 5% Def buff
Hasten will also mean that any self buff I have will be available more often. Rage just isn't worth it anymore.
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I am just reading this wrong ? Hasten is an increase to attack rate, meaning your attacks recharge faster, not an increase to the damage, although increased attack rate increases your damage output. And other than rage what self buffs do you have ? Dont get me wrong Hasten is still a good choice and yes Rage currently isnt worth haveing, the post just seems abit unclear.
So in short Super Strength now has Rage and Hurl (which is what I feel like doing) that suck. Not to mention if your an Invul. you get Unstoppable to help kill you too.
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You missed the roughly part for that quote. Still, for damage output, hasten will give you a larger increase than the new Rage since it increases the number of attacks you can make in the same period of time. As I said, Rage just isn't worth it anymore.
As for self buff, what about Dull Pain and Healing Flames as examples. Those definately benefit from Hasten.
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If you are an Inv/SS Tank you have four powers that are utter crap!
Hand Clap.....Hurl....Rage......Unstoppable......
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I have a friend with an Inv/SS tank. He likes Hand Clap. It's a nice way to grab aggro for him. He hasn't gotten Foot Stomp yet, but still.
He likes Hurl. He feels it's nice to have a ranged attack outside of temp powers.
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That's all well and good, but liking something doesn't make it good, I also Like Hurl but the Damage is poor and the range is so short you may as well go up to the bad guy and use Haymaker.
I still say put Rage back how it was before I3, it was fine.
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Your all correct. I have Hurl and I like it, but it is total crap and you may as well go up and use Haymaker. So is Unstoppable, which I also have cause I thought it would be good for emergiancys, but anytime I have needed to use it its been worthless and I've died anyhow since it seems like the only time I'm in danger enough to use it is when I'm fighting an AV and well lets see the last 2 I fought where Countess Crey and alternate demension Clockwork King so you can imagine how much good it did me (this is the "best" power in my primary pool and I used it maybe once in the last 96 hours of play time). Hand clap is great! if your fighting WHITE con minions which I never do, I rarely see yellows its usually oranges or higher besides your better off with Taunt, Invincable or Foot stomp for getting agro. And well Rage as we all know is a work in progress.
I dropped rage when the I3 changes came in for tanks (I play Inv/SS). Even when I had rage, I never ran it perma. It was too anoying to have to wait for the stun to finish its course, and then reload my toggles. I didn't run perma-unstoppable, so the only way to avoid the stun was to run unyielding stance. This worked fine until the battle finished and I dropped unyielding stance so I could move on to the next battle. When the I3 changes came in, I dropped rage in favor of the the fighting pool so I could get my ranged defense back. Rage moved to the very end of my build, but once these changes started, I decided to get rid of it all together. To be honest, I haven't missed it. My damage is pretty horrible, but I've come to live with that. I think that rage has potential to be a really great power, and I personally think it should be available to more than just the SS set (axe, mace, broadsword, claws, and spines come to mind).