Goldenstar

I don't know if this has been touched on, but....

...with the new sonic powers debuffing damage resistance, not defense, will damage resistance be getting the same treatment? Or will it be ignored because it's perceived as being superior to defense?

I agree that damage resistance is much more reliable than defense, but defense can be superior in certain situations.

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City of Villains will release on October 31, Halloween, barring any major remaining bugs.


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Wow. I know that they have most of the stuff from CoH to work with, but that seems kinda quick to me, seeing how beta just started. I expected a more late November/early December release.

I think I smell the scent of suits pushing for it to be released earlier than it probably should be.

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What Mr. Emmert should realize is that for HIM rising to a challenge is fun, for others having lead weights added to our feat until rising becomes a challenge is not fun.

The 30s game may not be balanced in his view. But in mine, it is fun.

If the standard truely was "if invincible offers no challenge prepare yourself for the nerf bat", that wouldn't be so bad. The problem is that the standard really is "if anyone with your powerset has less challenge than we want you to have, prepare for the nerfbat." If you're not min/maxing the build, learn now, the nerfs are going to be designed so that the min-maxers are brought to "normal" so anyone less optimized will be subnormal.

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And here is the problem.......

min/maxers can tweak any ruleset to their advantage. You cannot balance a game with this minority of players in mind. It is bad for your business and it is wrong to penalize so many other players for the actions of a select few.

If the devs force the current min/max builds to be challenged, what happens to the people who wanted more freedom in their builds? Or players who took frivilous powers? They will disappear. These players will be forced to respec or build characters with a more optimized min/max build. Why? Because they will have no choice if they want to be effective. Lack of choice will make characters look far too similar and CoH will suffer from the "cookie-cutter" syndrome far worse than we have seen (fire tankers and super jump come to mind).

In the year I've been playing, the devs have yet to do anything that I would have considered too drastic. I haven't agreed with all of their decisions, but I don't expect to, that would be very unrealistic of me (though, it would be nice). I'll just have to wait and see (and hope they don't screw it up).

There hasn't been an official reply to this thread in months. I doubt it will change.

Has anyone else noticed that the game seems to lag more since GC went live?

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And you know something, my fire tanker only has two attacks currently but I keep stealing aggro from the SS tanker with provoke-punch

[/ QUOTE ] Dont forget that all tanker attacks have taunts to them including damage armours, such as blazing aura. That can steal aggro easily if the other tank is just using attacks to maintain aggro.

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Actually, I don't have Blazing Aura.

I started a fire/fire tank recently.

Now, I'm not too high level yet, but I team with an Invulnerability/SS tanker occasionally.

Not only are my defensive toggles cheaper (fire shield and plasma shield compared to TI plus unyielding), but my attacks seem cheaper too. And you know something, my fire tanker only has two attacks currently but I keep stealing aggro from the SS tanker with provoke-punch, and the SS tanker has twice as many attacks (which may also be a cause of the endurance problem). I also end fights with twice the endurance he does (and that's assuming I don't use Consume).

Conculsions: First, SS doesn't seem to be able to keep up damage-wise at low level against fire. I assume this will only get worse. And that's the fire secondary. SS also costs far more endurance than fire, which if it can't keep up, just isn't fair. If Rage were too be able to be used more often, it might be more equal. Secondly, I now think TI costs too much endurance. It doesn't do as much as Fire Shield, but Fire Shield seems to be more cost effective. (TI is only smash/lethal resistance. Fire Shield gives about as much smash/lethal resitance AND fire/cold resistance AND disorient resistance).

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Actually all of the other tanker powersets DO have something like it...Build Up, which has no penalty other than it can't be made perma, and it takes five more slots to reach its best potential.

Rage provides an 80% boost to base damage for 120 seconds and then ten seconds of zero damage. That comes out to roughly a 66% boost to base damage overall. Build Up can be up roughly half the time and provides a 100% boost to base damage. That comes out to about a 50% boost to base damage overall. Actually it is a bit less than that since Build Up falls short of being up half the time by a few percent, but it's close enough to make the point.

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You can activate max-slotted buildup about 5 times in 120 seconds, which is probably slightly over 5 seconds total cast time lost, and would cost 37 endurance. Not too far off from rage.

Perma-rage also has the acc bonus, which might let the rage-user remove a few acc from attacks.

It's mostly a question of preference. Rage is more powerfull, buildup is safer to use.

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Actually, Build up has twice the ACC bonus that Rage does, I believe.

Rage gives +25% ACC.
Build Up gives +50% ACC.

I'm sure someone will blast me if I'm wrong.

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I've just heard from someone that the new Rage negates the taunt effects of Primary aura powers too (such as Invincibility). Can someone confirm?

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I just tested it on test server, when Rage drops so does the taunt of Invincibility. I bugged it.

With the exception of Invincibility losing taunt when Rage drops, I like this new rage better than whats on live.

My tank is lvl 48 inv/ss.

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Of course it's better than what's on live. They completely broke the power. Now we get what they give us or suffer with the total end drop on live.

I still thinks its broken on test too.

They should have rolled back Rage until they rebalanced it. It was just completely irresponsible of the devs to leave Rage the way it is currently.

I've just heard from someone that the new Rage negates the taunt effects of Primary aura powers too (such as Invincibility). Can someone confirm?

I have one other observation that I'd like to see if people concur.

Does it seem that the devs seem to make the changes to Rage with the assumption that the tanker in question is an Invulnerability tanker?

It does to me. I mean, Statesman's first post only cites an Invulnerability power. Invulnerability tankers are not the only tankers out there.

How does the end cost at the beginning and end of Rage (I feel this is double jeopardy) affect more toggle heavy sets like Ice and Stone?

What about the defense penalty that affects any other tanker set more harshly than Invulnerability....especially Ice primary?

And the inactivity? Statesman stated that toggle dropping was too harsh because we could do our job. How is the inactivity time really any different?

Honestly, I loved the changes to Invulnerability from I3, but I feel they've been completely botching Rage. The penalties are still too harsh in my opinion.

Ok devs, I have had almost enough.......

.....first, you change a power that you didn't even have the consideration to tell us you were thinking about changing.

Next, you give us a version on test that even YOU thought was junk and too extreme in the fix.

Then, you let this BROKEN version go LIVE after telling us to our faces that the penalty was too harsh AND didn't then didn't hotfix it so we could use the power.

Not only did you not fix the power, you let it sit on live for two weeks WITHOUT ANY TALK ABOUT A FIX AND NO RESPONSE TO OUR INQUIRIES. All we got was stonewall silence.

You then present a version of Rage to us with penalties AS HARSH as a total endurance crash. Not one penalty now, but 3 penalties that really add up. And again, one penalty which NO STATEGY OR TEAMMATES CAN REALLY HELP YOU GET AROUND.


An endurance drop can be helped with Conserve Power, Unstoppable, Inspirations, or any endurance buff from another player.

Defense penalties can be helped with other defensive powers, inspirations, or defensive buffs from other players.

But a 10-15 second window of no attacking cannot be helped by anything. Not other players. Not inspirations. Nothing.

Please tell us, is this the point? Are we to be penalized with a slow attack set with low damage and no AoEs until our last power with an ability that leaves us no options and no strategy to help, even in teams, for 15 seconds?

Sorry if I seem a bit bitter, but two weeks with a broken power AND no repsonse from the powers on high does that to me. I feel as if the devs deliberately left us with a broken power for two weeks and failed to acknowledge our pleas for information or input so that they could cook up any fix they wanted and expect us to gladly accept it because it's better than what's on live.

Well, I don't accept it. I still think it's too harsh. With endurance problems, and endurance drop is bad enough. A defense buff just stacks on top of that. But a window in which we can't do anything also?!?

*sigh*

I just expected better.....

....I guess my only hope now is that the devs realize their mistake.....

....after the lack of response to our plight for the last two weeks, that hope is very small right now.

WillyW. I will reply to you once, and once only.

You assume to know what Statesman meant. However, he ASKED for additional opinions and input, something YOU are trying to discourage.

Your arguments are predicated on one assumption, that you know EXACTLY what the devs are intending. Since your name is not red, you obviously do not know what the devs' intent is.

That is why you are misinformed and are clueless. You are not a dev. Therefore, you have no idea what they actually intend for the game.

We, on the other hand, are providing actual test results and constructive opinions and possible options. You are just stating one argument, which is flawed because, again YOU ARE NOT A DEV!

Please take your trolling elsewhere and allow us who actually care about the game and wish to strike a balance on the future development of it post our thoughts without having to listen to you ramble on your "understanding" of the devs' intent.

Also, honestly, I don't like the tone of any of your posts. I have yet to see a single one that was not condesending and none of them have been constructive. Please get off the high horse. The lack of oxygen up there is apparently causing some problems.

Remember, Stateman himself asked for our opinions and observations on the change. That from a post you claim to have read.

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Woah there, WillyW. Easy on the coffee.
A lot of people are posting that they ARE trying the new rage on the test server and dislike it. They don't have to read this thread, as they're experiencing it first hand.

I don't care what happens to rage personally. My only beef is base dmg being low and end consumption being too high.

--malign

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WillyW is a troll and should be ignored. What he doesn't understand is there already IS a penalty for Rage. If he were actually knowledgable on the subjects in which he speaks, he would know that Unyielding barely absorbs the mez and therefore any "stun" effect during that 15 seconds will stun you and also the fact that no "casual" player will be 28th level without knowing the penalties of Rage and the benefits of Unyielding. His tone is condesending and rude and he apparently claims to know what the devs are thinking rather than waiting for them to actually inform us. Otherwise, why would they actually ASK US for our opinions and thoughts?

I suggest we all ignore him as he has nothing actually constructive to add to this thread. (He's already been overposting in other threads with his brand of misinformation.)

Apparently, he was denied pie as a child.

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Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasn’t getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!

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Ok Statesman, I think I speak for many here when I say, "huh?!?"

I have no idea what you're talking about "causal" and "hardcore" here. Unyielding is now the lynchpin power of the set. NO Invulnerability tanker should be built without it. I am a causal player, but I have Unyielding. This has nothing to do with casual vs. hardcore players.

SuperStrength is a slow powerset. Pretty much every other tanker I've teamed with can outdamage me if I don't use rage (never grouped with an Ice tanker). This is not just raw damage, but dps. SS is SLOW. I'm not sure about it's endurance cost by comparision, but it's not light.

Rage needs a penalty, I see that. But dropping your endurance to zero is a far, far too severe penalty for almost any power (especially Unstoppable as it is with I3). Personally, I saw nothing wrong with the disorient penalty as it is on live currently. You need to be careful when it ends. Anyone who takes the power should already know this (you have to be 28th level to take it, I'd assume you'd have some experience with the game by then).

Also, I realize that when most people say SuperStrength, they also think of Invulnerability tankers. But not every tanker with SuperStrength is an Invulnerability tanker.

Statesman, you should never, ever, consider the penalty of a power dropping your endurance to zero unless that power is absolutely "hell on wheels". Rage does not fit into this category. I'm sure many SuperStrength tankers (especially Invulnerability ones) wished they had chosen a different secondary the day you announced this change.

I know I do. I just respec'd to get used to the new Invulerability, and now you wish to make a major power change to another power I possess. Not a small change either, but a large change that will once again, force me to change my playstyle.

There are more Invulnerability/SuperStrength tankers out there than any other kind. Why? Because SuperStrength is a high damage set? No. Invulnerability/SuperStrength fits our perception of the classic comic book superhero. Rage was already an iffy power, but we as the tanker community had learned to deal with it. Zero endurance when it crashes is just too severe a penalty.

Unless your plan is to make the power have a drawback, regardless of your power selection or buffs from teammates (zero endurance means your toggles drop, even with RA or any other endurance boost and you have to wait for the powers to recharge and then active before you get the benefit of them---that's 20 or more seconds probably....more than the disorient effect it already has). Again, Rage is just not good enough to fit into this category. You will once again create a power that no one takes.

I implore you to reconsider this change. Your stated reason makes no sense to me.

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Awwww.... poor widdle muffin. Did the Howwows Huwt You?

Get a grip. The mission placement should be a challenge. Do you just want every contact to hand you a door mission, that happens to be a block away, that happens to have REALLY easy foes to kill, which gives you enough exp to get 10 levels per mission?

People will complain about the stupidest things. Sure, I've had alts that have died in the Hollows... but my stupidity is to blame. I decide to shortcut through the red zone, and get my [censored] handed to me... lesson learned.

Any time I've had a difficult-to-reach mission, I've merely taken my time, and taken safe routes... and I've never had a problem that way.

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Wow...how insensitive of you, Kript. This man has a resonable grief and you make fun of him.

Oh yeah....and about this "stupid complaint"....here's a quote about it from Statesman himself:

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We will be revamping some of this stuff so crazy sitations like being put in an area that's WAAAAAYYYY too tough doesn't happen.

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So in fact, this WAS a bug and is being addressed.

Actually, what strikes me as truly funny is your post is AFTER Statesman's post IN THIS VERY THREAD!

I've had this problem on alts also. I hate the Hollows. I always avoid it if possible and I'm kind of surprised there are as many people there as there are.

I've done the mile run to a mission and back at 6th-8th level. It's not fun, but it is possible.