The "yes we're working on it...."
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2004-11-08 18:59 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
PROOF INV SCRAPPERS CAN REACH RESIST CAP!
Unstoppable, 6 slots, 4 rech 2 resistance
Hasten, 6 slot recharge
Resist Energies, 1 slot resist
Resist Elements, 1 slot resist
Resist Physical Damage, 6 slot resist
52% base for unstoppable + 40% = 72.8
Hasten = unstoppable only needs 3 to recharge in time, 4 to be safe
Resist energies: 15% base, 18% with 1 slot
Resist elements: 15% base, 18% with 1 slot
Resist physical damage, 9.5% guestimate base, 6 slots = 20.9% resist
Umm... Unless I failed math, that is 90% resistance to all but psi, ahem. For only 18 slots.
Coupled with invincibility, 90% resistance to all, infinite defense, being hit 5% of the time.
As for unstoppable taking most of your hp and all end, that isn't really anywhere NEAR enough of a drawback when you still have 90% resistance to all, you are an IDIOT if you don't use unstoppable if you can. As for tankers, that's just roflmao with unstoppable. Even if I'm wrong about the base unstoppable resist, you just throw in some slots in passives and run tough or temp invulnerability ontop and hey presto, you're DEFINITELY capped.
Statesman, do you know your game?
What will be done to Blizzard?
If nothing is done to Blizzard can you make an accurate description for that warns Ice blasters how situational it is.
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It's particularly bitter for Regen, since we have to go through 27 suck-[censored] levels just to get to a decent spot. Then we have a brief moment of feeling like, I dunno, a hero. Now that's gonna get ganked.
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This probably won't make me any friends, but I suggest that going through 27 levels of hell with Regen comes from a refusal to partake of dull pain and reconstruction during those levels.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
I think you are right Kali. Having Recon and DP early must make things much easier. I never would have described the first 27 levels as hell. In fact my DM/Regen scrapper was the most fun of any build I have played, especially at those levels.
Maybe the people who say that have just never played a controller or Tanker? 
It's possible. My gravity/kinetics controller is soooo slow solo. My tankers are more fun at the same level, but that's only into the teens.
My spines/regen didn't have dull pain until after I got instant healing, but life was pretty easy with just reconstruction. The combination would have been much more effective, had I made room for dull pain in place of, say, quills. I never really went through a period that I would describe as "hell levels" due to regeneration. If anything, I hit a point where combat was tedious because spines damage is low and resisted by so many things.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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1. DA, Ice Armor, Stone Armor - the f/x are going throug a redo and the powers will be made stackable. I'll tell you when as soon as the schedule is solid.
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i like the fact you are going to change the F/X to ice but making them stackable is stupid. Wet ice has every thing that both glacier and frozen armor offer but at a lower defense. Before anyone goes out and says i am nuts, with energy absorbtion, you can easily bottom out a bosses acc. Even with stacking armors i would take tough and weave. it is not like DA where i need this armor for my mez and this armor for energy and that armor for smash lethal. What i would really like to see for ice tanks is a higher protection from sleep.
-Joe
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how plausible would a hefty speed penalty be?
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Super Speed gets around slows. So much like Teleport currently makes the "limitation" of unyielding stance a non-limitation, all this idea does is make SUPER SPEED the new travel power favored by inv tankers. And many of them like Hasten already as is.
Doesn't seem like this idea deals with the issue at all.
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There's already an immobilise component in place with Unyielding Stance, so i.e. you can't use any travel powers with it. Would it be that difficult to keep that restriction on travel powers but still allow some mobility?
The first thing that comes to mind is the walking/running speed a player has when they're walking through an Earth Thorn Caster's quicksand (or whatever power that is), that prevents sprint/jump and any other travel power. I probably wouldn't have it that slow, but something around that speed and bit faster in my mind would be acceptable.
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Umm... Unless I failed math, that is 90% resistance to all but psi, ahem. For only 18 slots.
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Want to adjust them numbers for a +5 Crey Radiologist? Cause I think that's where States and Co. are coming from on this one.
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3. Tankers have top priority post Update 3 to get their increased mob control abilities. I'd love to tie this to some twinks to Controllers - so that both have a good role in mob management - but I can't make any promises about that in particular.
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I don't know if this has been suggested before but would you consider a suggestion for improving tankers: how about increasing the secondary effects like disorient/immobilize/hold of tanker secondary powers. If most of e.g. super strengths attacks did disorient it would improve tankers without having to give them more damage and also make them better received in groups
In addition I'd really like to see an electricity controller, I'm currently trying out an elec/elec blastroller but I'd much prefer to have a 'real' controller please.
Great job on everything!
yay !
great job...keep it up !
the more i play this game and read forum...the more i realize how this game is the best i ve ever tried, and so is the dev team
the communication is very good
and things become greater and greater patches afer patches and with great updates
yes, nothing is perfect
some error are done
but seems like dev team is very aware of this
and listen a lot to the playerbase
and read forums
hard to satisfy everyone
but they try
this is the first MMO with such a combination of excellent gameplay / dev team / communication / game fixes i play.
i am the only one to appreciate and enjoy it ? ( j/k btw.....but seems like the more u try to satisfy people, the less they recognize the efforts done ...)
enjoy !
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I think you are right Kali. Having Recon and DP early must make things much easier. I never would have described the first 27 levels as hell. In fact my DM/Regen scrapper was the most fun of any build I have played, especially at those levels.
Maybe the people who say that have just never played a controller or Tanker?
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Yeah I don't subscribe to that "false" mantra I see regens using as an argument for why we "deserve" IH. To me that's akin to a fire/invuln tank saying they deserve burn/invinci or a ill/fire controller saying they deserve pets or a device blaster saying.. well you get my point.
The game should present a challange but I truely do not believe that IH (in it's current state) removes that challenge. I do believe that after level 28 soloing missions becomes a bore. I do believe that a regen scrapper is capable of spectacular feats if built and played correctly.
The problem here is that I also believe that statesmans comment was based on nothing more then the fact that nerfing regen has been the popular movement on the boards as of late and has nothing to do with the actual powerset or the way it functions in the game.
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At the higher levels, I saw a (IIRC) 39 BS/Regen taking on a 41 Chief Boss in PI a few days ago (I may have the numbers wrong but it was at least a +2 spread). The Rikti could not win the fight. In the time it took its attack to recycle, all the damage had been healed back. Even if it hit with every shot, it could not win. That's not right. A +2 Boss should be something that puts any soloer, of any AT, any build, to pause at least. It should never be a slam dunk. Nothing justifies that.
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Likewise (though it's still probably too soon for a second big nerf to fire tanks) a fire tanker can easily and quickly solo several +3 bosses at the same time. I think burn needs some more attention from the nerf bat. A little less damage, maybe?
While I'm at it, Adamastor is a joke as it is, though I'm not sure why. I think it's the damage type and painfully slow attack speeds.
So has anyone seen anything anywhere on an estimated release date on issue 3?
As far as regen scrappers go...After the insane beating my AR/Dev blaster took, I decided at level 45 to abandone him and made a DM/Regen Scrapper. He is 33 now, and of the 30+ characters I've played from 12-45, he is by far the easiest to level. As I am writing this, 8 level 35 criminal minions are pounding on my level 33 scrapper and I have no concern about being killed. About the only fix I can see is making us more vulnerable to status effects thus causing our toggles to turn off more.
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1. DA, Ice Armor, Stone Armor - the f/x are going throug a redo and the powers will be made stackable. I'll tell you when as soon as the schedule is solid.
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Great News! I can't wait to make a Stone/Stone Tanker. The problems with the art design of the Set has prevented me.
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3. Tankers have top priority post Update 3 to get their increased mob control abilities. I'd love to tie this to some twinks to Controllers - so that both have a good role in mob management - but I can't make any promises about that in particular.
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Glorius. Just make sure we can still Solo afterwards.
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6. I do know that Unyielding Stance and its immobility is an issue. I'm going to be thinking about that a lot in the coming week.
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Some kind of movement resistriction or something would be good here. I just want to be able to move 2 feet without teleporting myself. If a mob is attacking and he is Juuuuuust out of arms reach...(assuming one doesnt have a ranged attack power like Hurl) then he might as well be at maximum range because you can't hit him. You could drop Unyielding Stance....but what does Toggle Drop usually equal? The only other problem with this issue is that as it stands Invulnerability Tanks have no status protection while flying. We can't fly in Unyielding Stance and we cant fly with unstoppable because the end drop makes us fall from the sky. Invulnerability should work well with fly, because these are two iconic powers that have always gone together.
OTHER THINGS:
I know that the Damage system for tanks was scrapped....but I am one of the people who still find tanks....less SUPER. Sure I can kill guys, and solo, and take hits. There is just that feeling that I am weaker than a scrapper and not super strong. I have always thought that Powerful, slow, single target attacks are where it is at.
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PROOF INV SCRAPPERS CAN REACH RESIST CAP!
Unstoppable, 6 slots, 4 rech 2 resistance
Hasten, 6 slot recharge
Resist Energies, 1 slot resist
Resist Elements, 1 slot resist
Resist Physical Damage, 6 slot resist
52% base for unstoppable + 40% = 72.8
Hasten = unstoppable only needs 3 to recharge in time, 4 to be safe
Resist energies: 15% base, 18% with 1 slot
Resist elements: 15% base, 18% with 1 slot
Resist physical damage, 9.5% guestimate base, 6 slots = 20.9% resist
Umm... Unless I failed math, that is 90% resistance to all but psi, ahem. For only 18 slots.
Coupled with invincibility, 90% resistance to all, infinite defense, being hit 5% of the time.
As for unstoppable taking most of your hp and all end, that isn't really anywhere NEAR enough of a drawback when you still have 90% resistance to all, you are an IDIOT if you don't use unstoppable if you can. As for tankers, that's just roflmao with unstoppable. Even if I'm wrong about the base unstoppable resist, you just throw in some slots in passives and run tough or temp invulnerability ontop and hey presto, you're DEFINITELY capped.
Statesman, do you know your game?
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well yes, scrappers can hit the cap EASILY.... but what he said is accurate though.... because an invuln scrapper may be at 130 or so, but an invuln tanker is at 200..... Yea, I know, you would have to have some serious debuffs going to bring both below 90%, but still... He's correct becase an equally slotted tank has more than an equally slotted scrapper. Does this matter in game and once you go past 90%, not a lick, but still, on paper, they have more!
Well, my main is a 45 emp/psi defender. But right now I've been playing a dm/regen scrapper, who's 27. Soloing compared to my emp defender - well it's a joke. But that's neither here nor there. All my scrappers solo better than my emp defender by a huge margin. My regen scrapper isn't better than my other scrappers, and is less effective than my fire/dev blaster.
I can't say if the high end game needs tweaking for regen. But from the point of view as a healer, scrappers and tanks at high lvl are so strong they rarely need healing. I duoed Inferno with an invul scrapper. He needed about 2 heals, hehe. But that doesn't mean I want to gimp them.
Here's the thing about healing. It becomes useless to advance at high lvls. At lvl 45 I don't need to improve my heals. Here's why. The people that *need* the heals - mainly blasters - don't have enough hps for my heals to be bigger - my heal other refills their bar easily. And the people that don't really need the heals I have plenty of time to top them off. My healer was sked to lvl 50s a ton so I've seen most of that content.
But honestly, the easiest class I played was fire/dev blaster, if you're talking about leveling fast. Granted, this was pre-smoke grenade nerf, but the aoe stuff is incredibly useful. I quit him because he was just too easy.
Okay, what I'm reading here is that Invincibility (the powerset everyone uses to herd 100+ mobs) is possibly getting a BOOST by removing the immob from US. Meanwhile, Regen is getting nerfed?
Minor tweak my rear. A nerf is a nerf, lets not argue semantics.
So my two mains, a Kinetic def and a Regen scrapper, are both getting the nerf bat? Awesome. Seriously.
Regen is fine, pls work on bringing Dark armor up to strength. These nerfs kill the character pls just make lines that are not as strong stronger. Pls dont nerf regens. I have had so many of my chars nerfed, it's weird that im not scared of debt or villian ambushes but I am scared of the Devs. Please stop trying to fix whats not broken.
I read it twice, but i really do not like what's going on. No address for Untyped Damage, little change to Regeneration and no comic book flavour for Tanker at all. The only good part is about Stone and Ice Armor. If tanker have to be meatshield then let tanker be meatshield, not poor Scrapper.
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5. The massive AOE Alpha Strikes will be addressed shortly after Tankers get their due.
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Hey states,,, If you guys are going to lower the damage of these attacks how about getting rid of the absolute and complete drain on Endurance?
Those attacks are SUPPOSED to wipe out large groups. I'm sure that's they way you guys designed them BECAUSE they do leave you damn near helpless and unable to regain endurance for 10 seconds.
I've pretty much decided that you guys were going to bork the level 32 ultimate for blasters so I rushed mine to level 50 so that your nerfs wouldn't touch me. NYAHHH NYAAAHHH *rasberry*.... Given the lack luster secondaries offered to blasters and your intent to "look at" the massive AoE's I have to tell you that I hope these new Epic power pools are going to be pretty good.... because blasters really have nothing to look forward to.
I love this game. And I'm probally going to be playing it until the day they pry my account out of my cold dead hands. but seriously man blasters are just pointless to play after a certain level. the last 6 levels of my blasters career involved 50% alpha striking the hell out of mobs and running. Because without a massive infusion of lucks... that's the ONLY way to survive. the other 50% involved trudging through missions at near defender speed. and of course there was some teaming. I team with my supergroup a ton... but I still like to solo from time to time and I think that blasters should have some ability to do that. If we are a support class.... and you want battles to last longer we need real skills that will allow us to contribute to a team. For gods sake you guys put blazing aura, and combustion into my blasters secondary..... what does that support besides wasted power slots and blaster dirt naps? And my ultimate secondary power was.... hot feet.....???
I guess what I'm saying is what are you guys going to offer the blaster community to make up for our loss of power? I heard you say you're looking into the lackluster damage in Elec blast... kudos. but what about NRG blast? The knockback just annoys the hell out of players diminishing the desirability of energy blasters in teams. If you tone down Nova.... well there's going to be a lot of NRG blasters getting booted from teams. And even on teams.... think about this. why bother with the ranged support of blasters when scrappers can provide a consistant and reliable source of damage? They don't need the kind of baby sitting that blasters do and can fufill the role of tankers if need be. Defenders can provide ranged punch and they have buff debuff abillities that can support a team. controllers and tankers offer sources of damage and crowd control......
The only thing you guys gave blasters was damage. In the higher reaches of the game when blaster 1-3 shotting becomes commonplace we're not even living long enough to deliver our max damage capacity. And several defender types become kind of useless to us at this level. Empaths, Kinetics, even radiation because blasters tend to draw mobs out of the cloud of death that serves as protection because they're programed for range.
So If all we have is damage. If that's alll we have to offer a team.....
Why are you guys jeporadizing that? what is it you have in mind for us? I'd really like to know before I roll another blaster. And I'd really like to give the blasters in my supergroup a reason not to abandon the characters they've worked hard to develop. I'd like to say something to keep them playing the game. some of them are talking about quitting. Maybe you guys don't care, but these people have become my friends over the last 7 months or so and I don't want them bailing over to WoW... I want them here with me blowing [censored] up and having fun.
After retiring my blaster.... I started playing a scrapper and a defender regulary. I whipped out the hero planner and got to work. and making descisions have been hard because defenders and scrappers have REAL secondaries. It's actually hard to make room for pools because Rad blast and INV are both so damned cool. my blaster had exactlly 4 good secondary powers.... and one of them was just more damage. the other 5 powers ranged from marginally useful to pure garbage that makes me think none of you guys actually bothered to test those powers in actual game play. And I've heard NOTHING about improving any of them one Iota. I don't know... maybe you guys didn't Think through the post 40 game for blasters?
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As for Regeneration, I personally think the healing should be spread among more of the Regen powers, not just in the all-powerful Instant Healing. Tweak IH down a little, pump up FH and Recon. This will smooth out the Regen scrapper leveling progression.
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HECK NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok now that i've taken the flame out, consider this, for me to tank almost as good as an invuln scrapper my level i have ten, TEN, powers devoted to my defense, as well as 38 slots (not counting the auto slot). if you want to count hover then that's another 3 slots and another power.... you're going to tell me you want me to take MORE powers and MORE slots for me to be functional? pfft...
sorry for being so huffy but damnit i have to devote 3 power pools at LEAST to keep IH running, i have so much into my defense that i can only afford 5 attacks and buildup, up till 45 i only had 3-4 depending on my respec.... and you're telling me you want me to have to rely on MORE powers for my iffy defense? wait, i CAN'T cuz i've had to tweak through 3 respec's just to get it right. its just not possible to fit all that into one regen build.................. PLEASE STATES DO NOT NERF REGEN!
fin
Project SWAT lvl 47 Kat/Regen Scrapper
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Umm... Unless I failed math, that is 90% resistance to all but psi, ahem. For only 18 slots.
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Want to adjust them numbers for a +5 Crey Radiologist? Cause I think that's where States and Co. are coming from on this one.
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That became a moot point when they released the purple patch, and furthermore with the whole "3 whites = 1 Hero", so who cares about a +5 debuffer...
Players' Choice Awards: Best Dual-Origin Level Range Arc!
It's a new era, the era of the Mission Architect. Can you save the Universe from...
The Invasion of the Bikini-clad Samurai Vampiresses from Outer Space? - Arc ID 61013
Things I'd like to see:
- customisable weapons (changing hilt/blade of katana, chinese swords available, different type of claws)
- capes attached to wrists
- casual clothing for heroes (great to RP)
- dark melee accuracy fixed (come on, try to beat skyraiders +1 with shields... If this is not a bug, this is unplayable)
Thanks States for reading us!
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3. Tankers have top priority post Update 3 to get their increased mob control abilities. I'd love to tie this to some twinks to Controllers - so that both have a good role in mob management - but I can't make any promises about that in particular.
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Seriously - too late. You flat out promised this immediately after Update 2, now we have to wait 6-8 weeks until Update 3 goes live, plus probably 3-4 weeks of fixing bugs that go live with all the new Epic level stuff. I can accept a lot of things, but broken promises really piss me off.
And still nothing about a damage increase - perhaps hoping we would forget about it? Or will that be 'immediately after Update 4.....ok, immediately after Update 5.....sometime in 2007'
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2. After analysis, Scrappers CAN NOT reach the same levels of resistance as a Tank. Regeneration, though, is a small concern.
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Yet more proof that you guys really don't know the game we are playing. Seriously, put the damn calculators and spreadsheets away for a week and bloody well play the game, from scratch, the hard way. Learn the difference between theory and practice (Geko's 'explanation' of how Jab was better than Boxing was another case of not understanding gameplay vs design numbers).
All the rest - meh. Continued dumbing down of mobs to make it easier for blasters and a lot of empty promises - I used to believe you, but no more.
In case its not obvious, I am seriously hacked off right now.