Devs - Super Reflexes
By
AllHazzardi,
Posted on: 2004-09-07 23:15 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Elude is getting fixed with Update 2, if you didn't see. You're supposed to be able to attack with it running now. Seeing as I don't really understand how it works, now, I dunno what kind of boon that provides to you all. 
I wish I was 38 on test. Oh well. The only big thing that annoys me is the AoE defense 1: I already use enough END on my 1st 2 toggles, and they open up so late. The counter-attack power is real nice, but it should open up late. The mitigation could be integrated into quickness or practiced brawler.
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a) Lucky gets replaced with Deflection. Deflection is an inherent power that has a base 10% chance to return a percentage of a melee attacker's attack back to him. So, if you take a hit, you can have a chance to take only 50% of that damage and return the other 50% back to the attacker (with diminishing returns to LT's, bosses, and AV's). It's basically Aikido for scrappers, in a way. It would probably require new enhancement types or creative use of existing ones to increase the base chance to return the blow or modify the percentage of damage returned.
b) Replace Evasion with Glancing Blow. With Glancing Blow, you have a base 15% damage avoidance vs. any non-psionic attacks made at you. I mean, you guys are moving so fast, you should at least be able to "somewhat" avoid attacks that make it through your defenses.
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If done properly, Aikido is not supposed to damage your opponent, only convince them that it is pointless to attack you. I like the idea in (a), but for a more aikido-like power how about every melee attack that you avoid results in a chance to knockdown of the opponent. Maybe 75% for minons 55% for lts and 30% for bosses. 10% for AV with no way to raise these values.
As for (b) the combat version of Tai-chi is based on that. When a strike comes in, you absorb it and return the force by rotating on a body axis. In game terms, this coud be done as a damage reduction with a damage/knockback effect. I know knockback is not terribly handy for a melee, but there are times that it may be a lifesaver.
I would set both of these as a toggle, with the aikido one possibly being automatic. The end drain for the Tai Chi one would be very small, to make its effects desireable enough to take. Or, give it a normal end drain, but an almost instant recharge time, so it could be switched on and off manually, to keep there player mor actively involved in its use.
Just more ideas
My first short story (detective fiction) came out in Jan-2012. Other stories and books to follow, I hope. Because of "real writing". COH was a big part of that happening.
I've seen some ideas, I've got a level 32 MA/SR scrapper and I'm still going on strong. I've picked powers from the way I've designed my character and seem to be having no problems at all. However, I DEFINITELY DO NOT like the fact that you need to have 3 different toggles to protect against melee, ranged, AND AOE.
I do like the idea some folks were suggesting, the whole counter attack idea. I can totally see if a scrapper gets hit, using superior reflexes that scrapper will immediately counter attack their foe with a retaliatory attack.
I really don't have an issue with SR at the moment but we'll see what happens when I start hitting 38-40
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Super Reflexes is also the only secondary set where it *doesent* make sense to have a self heal. I mean... It's Super Reflexes. How does a guy who can move fast enough to dodge bullets manage to use that to heal himself?
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How does Jet Li, Bruce Lee, or Van Dam take enough damage to kill 10 men, reel as if they will pass out, and suddenly "shake it off" as they wipe blood from their face enough to pound the crap out of the villain?
Getting a second wind is a *classic* in the realm of martial arts movies.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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Heh, or even for those foaming-at-the-mouth Matrix fans you could have a power that "slows time", which would slow movement and attack rate of all villians in a certain radius of you.
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My scrapper has that power. oh, wait, no, that's just lag.
I'm only level 30, but I don't see myself get killed by one blow. A few big blows in succession, maybe. But there's a little time.
How about making Quickness heal you faster, since it seems to up your metabolism? Perhaps not causing your full heal to happen slightlyt quicker, but instead spread it out in small pieces. If you heal 50 HP every ten seconds, if you have Quicken you heal 10 HP every 2 seconds. Doesn't come out healing you for more, but can likely sneak a heal in between 2 hits, so if you have (irrational numbers here) 100 HP and get hit for 50 and then 50, maybe you can heal 10 in between hits instead of hoping they're timed around your natural every-ten-seconds heal. Such a change could let you slot Quickness with healing enhancements for a slight healing boost, and maybe even have a small boost already built in?
I do wonder about the 6 powers this set has that are copies of each other, only 1 is toggle. Seems the extra boost from the toggle isn't worth the END cost. Maybe the toggle ones should be a combo of DEF and RES? Less DEF than they have now, but add RES, and then customize how you want with enhancers.
Does anyone have numbers on those? How much do I benefit from Focused Fighting vs Dodge? If I have both slotted with 3 SO's, am I better off respec'ing to the permanent one only with 6 SOs and adding Combat Jumping or Maneuvers? What about numbers on the DEF bonus of Hasten or Stealth for comparison?
I will say first that I didn't read this whole thread so if any of my ideas have already been posted (which they probably have) I'm sorry.
It wouldn't be unreasonable from a conceptual standpoint to add resists to SR and still be able to explain the power as SR.
Basically through speed and dexterity a character manages to roll with the impact of an attack so that instead of being a direct hit it only "grazes" him. Taking a bullet to the chest would suck but having it graze past your arm isn't nearly as hampering.
Just an idea for a conceptual version of how to add resists to SR.
I want to make a SR scrapper but it just looks so unhealthy that going with Invulnerability is just better.
I do agree however that there doesn't seem to be any logistical way to add a self heal to SR.
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I will say first that I didn't read this whole thread so if any of my ideas have already been posted (which they probably have) I'm sorry.
It wouldn't be unreasonable from a conceptual standpoint to add resists to SR and still be able to explain the power as SR.
Basically through speed and dexterity a character manages to roll with the impact of an attack so that instead of being a direct hit it only "grazes" him. Taking a bullet to the chest would suck but having it graze past your arm isn't nearly as hampering.
Just an idea for a conceptual version of how to add resists to SR.
I want to make a SR scrapper but it just looks so unhealthy that going with Invulnerability is just better.
I do agree however that there doesn't seem to be any logistical way to add a self heal to SR.
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One thing SR has over Inv:Mobile mez resistance. The one reason I never will start an inv scrapper.
Ooh, Second Wind, might be a viable healing option. 
Too bad there's an inspiration called Second Wind, and would most likely confuse people. 
Hmmm, combining the ranged attack toggle and passive (it seems to be the most popular way to free up slots for SR, even more than combining the autos and toggles together into amagamated powers that provide +10% auto and a +20% toggle.
Anyway, here are my suggestions:
1. Second Wind: Click, Self Heal (25%? 33%? 50%?) , +15 END, Long recharge (5 mins?) -- Your character gets his second wind and comes back from a near defeat to jump right back into the battle.
2. Flow like Water: Auto, +15% damage resist. You flow with the punches and tend to only take damage in non-vital "hero" areas like the shoulder and thigh.
If the devs go for combining the slots instead and free up 3 different slots, I have another idea that could work:
3. Pressure Points: Toggle, 25% greater chance of landing critical hits on attacks. You concentrate on striking vital areas, dispatching foes with precision instead of brute force.
I made this a toggle because as an auto it wouldn't be slotable, and that doesn't seem right.
Alternatively, this toggle could give all of your attacks a MAG2 stun component, although if it does this it should be a click with a moderate to long recharge time and a short duration.
To be honest, I never understood why Invincible is in the Invulnerability line rather than the Super Reflexes line.
I say, give SR Invincible and some toggle damage resist; take Invincible out of Inv and give it something else to compensate, and while there, change Unyielding Stance so that it is mobile without using teleport.
Not holding my breath though ...
I think everyone here can agree high level martial artists have a higher threshold for pain than others do, so to me at least, a built in resistance to damage seems likely. Martial artists don't just know how to avoid damage, but to keep going despite being damaged. Real MA fighters ARE tough as nails so it seems sensible to add some sort of resistance into the Super Reflexes line. I think most people would agree that SR should go hand in hand with MA. IMRO.
When Bruce Lee takes a pounding - then - gets back up - wipes away the blood - and fignts on
He is using a catch a breath and a Respite - thank you very much. What - you mean the tough fight has 'inspired' him to go to beyond those feeble mortal limits of endurance and pain? OMG
I say - SR is not appropriate for a self heal
I also am dubious about the +res ideas - seems to me that - if you are quick and nimble - you are not only dodging attacks, but deflecting and moving so as to turn lethal strikes into non-lethal - and that can all be summed up by +def anyway.
I do whole heartedly agree that it takes too many slots and powers to achieve the basic defense available to the SR scrapper
I totally agree that the ranged/AoE auto should be combined same same the ranged/AoE toggle.
I recently ran a small maths exercise, and basically, it told me that SR is fine against even con mobs. If you take just the sets powers alone into account, SR will infact handle a bigger crowd of even cons than Regen will. Start giving mobs +acc or more levels or make them bosses though - and SR rapidly drops off.
Include pool powers into the mix though - and SR comes last. Not only does SR have more choices tied up in the main set thus cant buy as many pools, but the nature of +def and +res means that other sets get more from tough than SR does, while SR cant really make use of much more +def, while other sets can - and there is plenty of it in the pools to get.
I have been leaning to the 'better offence' is a better defence idea.
Anyway - SR does do the job well against sensible numbers of even con baddies (missions) and so really - I think it isnt far off the mark - just has too many powers/slots required to get there.
Still - combine some - and you have empty slots - which means you need replacements. And for balance - those replacements simply can not be earth shattering.
+5% accuracy as an auto power would fit right in. Super reflexes means good hand eye coordination means hitting things would be easier for the SR. +5% is neither nothing at all, nor a must have game changer. Its simply nice.
+30% crit click in the same manner as build up - based on the idea that people WILL combine it with build up, and WILL use it with attacks that they have slotted as much as possible for damage. 30% will wind up improving the average damage a similar amount as a bouild up would - so because its similar in power to an existing power, I feel that would be balanced. As a toggle, it would have to be down around 10% or so to be balanced, and as an auto - 5%
I dont see +heal or +recover being applicable to the SR set - and it steps on Regen anyway.
An innate endurance reduction might be appropriate - although in all honesty - I think it should be part of quickness as an offset for the increased rate you burn thanks to quicknesses recharge reduction. Some people feel quickness needs to be +33% recharge BTW - and going on the idea that hasten is a pool power click for 70%, while quickness is an auto power from a secondary - I feel a case could be made for raising it to as high as +40 - but - I would suggest, either raise it to+33% recharge reduction OR add a +20% end use reduction - one or the other, not both
I have seen the 'mirror double' type idea come around a bit. Personally - I think that belongs to a super speed character, and that super reflexes DOES NOT equal super speed. Might be fast, but not super fast. None the less - I do see an option here to add that 'second layer' of protection that is needed to avoid the fact that 5% of atatcks will always get throguh, and there is nothing else SR can do about that.
The power would create a duplicate of the SR, which was phase shifted. It would exactly mirror the movements of the SR, but with a 1 sec delay. It would (though some specific coding) have a 50% chance of being the target of an enemy attack instead of the SR, any time the AI decided to attack the SR. It would be a click, with a long reuse.
KK - let it be known that I dont really like that idea - but it seems balanced more or less.
I had thought that a +res to psionic would not be inappropriate for a SR character. Good reflexes means good neural system, and an ability to deal with surprise and shocks. That might well translate to a resistance to a sudden mental overload caused by psychic attack.
A very interesting idea is - a auto stealth power - just minor stealth. A SR is just naturally able to move quietly. This might have a +5% def mod, or be combined with something else, to make it slottable in some way
Another intersting idea - one that I like a LOT - is a 'defensive fighting' toggle, which wile active, has a PBAE knockdown effect. Something like the Dark Armour power that has a PBAE disorientate. The SR, ever aware of his own balance as well as those around him, can easilly take the chance to trip a foe. The chance to cause a knockdown would be a lot less than the chance for the DA disorient, but the SR power wouldnt be draining your health either.
Finally - why not put a bonafide attack into the set? Low damage, but with a knockdown or disorientate? Or a slow?
I have to disagree with the matrixesque slow idea - why? because while you might move fast - the enemies are still moving at normal speed to everyone else - the AE slow to simulate this would be a debuff that benefits everyone with you.
Ramble ramble hope you liked reading that.
For the record - my SR character does fine doing the non uber stuff - and yes - tank swipers HURT when they get you. But I made my character to be a normal person, just well trained. Being hit by a scythe thing like that would, all things considered, lop limbs off, so just loosing half or more HP seems pretty mild to me :P
Just a little bit of useless info. Ever felt that second wind? Well, it's just your muscles reaching optimal operating temp (about 112 degrees F at their core).
Keep up the great discussion and hopefully we can get a reply soon
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SR slotted correctly is pretty disgusting ..
My roomies DM/SR scrapper tanks 50th lvl AVs for me, he is 48th lvl, almost never gets hit the entire fight, granted, if he does, he dies, but out of 5 battles with this 50th lvl AV, he has died once ...
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Woohoo. Let's level to 40+ and be good scrappers. While on our way to 40 we can have max debt woot!!!
/sarcasm off
I don't like SR that well at lower levels. It drains end and doesn't work that great. My scrapper is level 10 though, so I guess I can wait til DOs.
I like your arguement about inspirations etc. The only thing I disagree with is basically I think that Bruce Lee is tougher than your average Joe. What would knock him to the floor would knock alot of people out of action. I think a 10 or 20% resistance to damage is totally appropriate for the SR set. I'm not asking to cap out resistances or anything.
Let's face it, you could easily merge AoE and Ranged defenses together into Focused Senses - eliminating Lucky and Evasion entirely.
Ideally, I recommend in place of Lucky and Evasion, that an auto +Res to damage come about, and a Dull Pain type power. Every other Defensive power set for Scrappers has Resistance and a self heal. Two of them just not just a heal, but a +HP. I don't think SR would be ruined to have a little more loving in what is essentially an "all or nothing" power set.
No - we're not done with Super Reflexes. It's still "on the list" of ongoing issues, but it's sort of on a back burner right now.
The number one priority is to get Expansion 2 live. After that, it's fixing the problem that the game is TOO easy post level 25ish (and AOE attacks just rule). Then I'll be returning to dear ole' SR. Promise.
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The number one priority is to get Expansion 2 live. After that, it's fixing the problem that the game is TOO easy post level 25ish (and AOE attacks just rule). Then I'll be returning to dear ole' SR. Promise.
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If they nerf my Fire/Dev blaster again after Smoke Grenade, I will be moving on to WoW. It is a bummer as your character gets progressively weaker. If you nerf, give somethng back (make web useful or something), this about fun for all, not removing it for some. This is starting seem like Star Wars all over again...nerf forver.
Oh sweet Jeebus, States, I just got my Fire/Fire blaster to the point where he isn't dead every two mintues at level 29, and NOW you're going to change how cool AOE's are and make things harder?
I think there's pee in my cornflakes here.
J/K States, You guys haven't really done me wrong so far, so I trust ya. And get the Update live, no more board talky. Workworkwork.
Please keep in mind that AOE attacks don't rule as much from late-30's to endgame. Before that, yes. After that, an AOE alpha strike pretty much means a dead blaster.
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If they nerf my Fire/Dev blaster again after Smoke Grenade, I will be moving on to WoW.
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Have fun!
/emote wave
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If they nerf my Fire/Dev blaster again after Smoke Grenade, I will be moving on to WoW.
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Have fun!
/emote wave
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Ditto
I have been in the Stress Test for WoW...and it is not what I had expected. In fact it is fairly dull. Where some will find it fun I don't plan on playing it. CoH has more interest and a better system in my opinion.
I think a large bummer was the "contest" whomever has the 3 top leveled classes will get into the Closed Beta with those Characters. Well...People haven't slept, and have done nothing but level. You think a carort like a cape or PATs is funny (Not saying you did) try the cut throat kill stealing and baby eatting they have going on there.
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Please keep in mind that AOE attacks don't rule as much from late-30's to endgame. Before that, yes. After that, an AOE alpha strike pretty much means a dead blaster.
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This post is 100% right. yes, from 25-38 AE is overpowered, but from 39 on, it is pretty much a debt magnet. Unless you stick to even to +2 con minions only, but every group has bosses and LTs post 39, which means AE is a no-no, unless you have an empathy defender working overtime keeping your no HP, no defense having butt up.
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Elude...as far as I know, you can't do anything while elude is active except "dodge". Meaning you're harmless so long as it's active.
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Its now been changed on test. It allows you to attack, and instead of a toggle it is now a click power. at the end of its duration you are drained of all End and lose all "normal" end regeneration for 20 secs.
With hasten and quickness plus 4 recharge reducers you can make Perma-Elude which combined with the passives gives you the equivilent of running all the toggles. This saves you 10 slots and 1 power that can be used elewhere. (you are forced into taking focused fighting.)