Devs - Super Reflexes
By
AllHazzardi,
Posted on: 2004-09-07 23:15 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
This is soooo true... My fire/fire blaster hit 39 and started trying to hunt in PI in a duo with an emp. defender. All I can say is "dicey".
Where my alpha-strike used to decimate groups completely, now it takes out minions and leaves 4+ Lt's and the Boss standing there really ticked off. Even running +2 mobs I'd say my death rate against the Nemesis in PI is 20%. Way, way too high for me so I've stayed in the sewers as much as possible.
At 39 my AOE is certainly not what it used to be...
Statesman. can we make any AoE changes wait till issue 3 comes out? gotta go exploit.. scratch that .... PLAY my AoE characters now..... gotta hurry .. changes are coming.....
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No - we're not done with Super Reflexes. It's still "on the list" of ongoing issues, but it's sort of on a back burner right now.
The number one priority is to get Expansion 2 live. After that, it's fixing the problem that the game is TOO easy post level 25ish (and AOE attacks just rule). Then I'll be returning to dear ole' SR. Promise.
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Thank you Jeebus!
Not to feed the off-topic flames, but I agree. I mean I think the graphics are pretty lush (gorgeous hand-painted look) and the classes generally are pretty unique (mana, rage, power/combo gauge, etc). That being said, it's fairly 'eh.'
I've found a few cases where everyone had to camp spawns already and the map makes it hard to easily find things (CoH has had the best nav system I've had the pleasure of using so far...and SWG. But lets not go there).
I think it'll do well and I think its been incredibly stable and low in latency for a stress test. But there's just something really...catchy about CoH that I love. That and you can tell how excited the Devs are to bring us new features, fix things and make the game world more rich. I love that!
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I have been in the Stress Test for WoW...and it is not what I had expected. In fact it is fairly dull. Where some will find it fun I don't plan on playing it. CoH has more interest and a better system in my opinion.
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Like I said above, y'all need a power called Glancing Blow. 
I still like my Deflection idea. I think it suits the Super Reflexes set rather well.
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Agreed. Especially that AoE and Ranged should be on the same power.
Hear hear! Super-Reflexes is for people who don't want to get hit. Resistance and healing is for dumb palookas.
I'd like to see an endurance-shield type power - where hits that do manage to beat your defense are dodged at the last moment, expending a proportionate amount of endurance instead of health to represent the superhuman effort of getting out of the way in time.
Either that, or have the Super-Reflex powers augment the Scrapper's offense: killing mobs before your +def luck runs out. If a character has the speed and skill to dodge supersonic projectiles, imagine what they could do with something sharp?
Ah well.
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Well, that is why I am MA/SR - Focus Chi gives me my accuracy and damage bonus but that's beside the point.
I REALLY like your idea of endurance drain instead of HP drain. Totally cool. Just like absorb pain uses HP instead of Endurance for emp class. Count me in!
I like the idea that I can avoid taking damage by expending my trained bodies endurance through some super human move. Mind you - I need a new animation. You now have a pretty standard animation for 'avoiding' attacks (sort of like a boxers bob and weave). If we could implement this, I want my character to do something like.... ?
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Please keep in mind that AOE attacks don't rule as much from late-30's to endgame. Before that, yes. After that, an AOE alpha strike pretty much means a dead blaster.
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This post is 100% right. yes, from 25-38 AE is overpowered, but from 39 on, it is pretty much a debt magnet. Unless you stick to even to +2 con minions only, but every group has bosses and LTs post 39, which means AE is a no-no, unless you have an empathy defender working overtime keeping your no HP, no defense having butt up.
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Yup, agree completly here. Unless you had SG that is, but that got fixed.
once you hit 41 your back to destroying again, you are just at the hump, the freshman at PI so to speak. You rule yet again dont worry. AOE is still a joke.
How come its not insta-death(like when resting) if you get caught setting trip mines?
Should be some risk to it
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Please keep in mind that AOE attacks don't rule as much from late-30's to endgame. Before that, yes. After that, an AOE alpha strike pretty much means a dead blaster.
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This post is 100% right. yes, from 25-38 AE is overpowered, but from 39 on, it is pretty much a debt magnet. Unless you stick to even to +2 con minions only, but every group has bosses and LTs post 39, which means AE is a no-no, unless you have an empathy defender working overtime keeping your no HP, no defense having butt up.
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Yup, agree completly here. Unless you had SG that is, but that got fixed.
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It would seem that some folks haven't seen the power of Nova+A Herding Tank/Scrapper. Watching somebody click Aim+Build-UP+Nova and seeing 100 mobs fly off into oblivion is an awe inspiring thing.
The limit of some AE's is only how many mobs you can get into range. Easy XP and a very common occurance post 40.
Thanks for keeping us informed, Statesman! It's good to know that the problems with SR aren't being ignored, and that you guys are looking at it (even if it is far in the future).
As for AoE, yes there is definetly a problem there. I think a good fix (other than fixing AoE damage) would be to increase mob damage along with HPs (which is already happening). That way, the tender blasters wouldn't be able to handle all their agro without a tanker/controller/scrapper/defender to mitigate it. (and it would make the game more challenging).
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No - we're not done with Super Reflexes. It's still "on the list" of ongoing issues, but it's sort of on a back burner right now.
The number one priority is to get Expansion 2 live. After that, it's fixing the problem that the game is TOO easy post level 25ish (and AOE attacks just rule). Then I'll be returning to dear ole' SR. Promise.
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Is it specific AoE's or all of them? I've not been following this issue but suppose I should as my main is a lvl 31 fire/energy blaster.
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It would seem that some folks haven't seen the power of Nova+A Herding Tank/Scrapper. Watching somebody click Aim+Build-UP+Nova and seeing 100 mobs fly off into oblivion is an awe inspiring thing.
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Hope you dont do it against nemisis. If the massive AE on the tank dont kill you in the animation time of the nova then the exploding robots will when they die.
Also that nova cannot kill any of the bosses.
The reason why the game is too easy at high lvl is because of certain key powers. Builds that dont have access to any of those will be in deep trouble if the game is fitted to the characters who have these powers.
Key powers are massive AE, massive pets and invincibility.
The invincibility power alone is more powerfull than the entire SR line (except maybe the last power in SR). And before anyone claims I just want invincibility nerfed then look at my sig below.
Right now my energy / energy blaster cannot solo more than max 3 even lvl lieutenants, 1 even lvl boss without any helpers or 6-7 even lvl minions. If there is more than that then I have to give up the fight and run.
If the game becomes harder then what am I supposed to do with her when groups are not something energy blasters get a lot of?
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No - we're not done with Super Reflexes. It's still "on the list" of ongoing issues, but it's sort of on a back burner right now. ...I'll be returning to dear ole' SR. Promise.
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This is great news! I love what was done with the MA power set for Scrappers, btw.
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I have been in the Stress Test for WoW...and it is not what I had expected. In fact it is fairly dull. Where some will find it fun I don't plan on playing it. CoH has more interest and a better system in my opinion.
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I totally agree here. WoW will most likely attract all the "power-gamers (you know the kind that lvl up to the highest lvl with the best build then go on to the next game and do the same thing)", probably some EQ people who don't like EQ but have "nothing else out there" and all the Blizzard fanboys/fangirls 
.
2 things that I really don't like about WoW:
1.) The map system (ie. you have no idea where certian NPCs are unless you have seen them before; or don't know where to go).
2.) The UI. Sorry but I don't think I should have to know XML to customize the UI; and no, I do not believe I should have to download a 3rd party program to customize it either. I'm just so spoiled with CoH's UI. 
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
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o - we're not done with Super Reflexes. It's still "on the list" of ongoing issues, but it's sort of on a back burner right now.
The number one priority is to get Expansion 2 live. After that, it's fixing the problem that the game is TOO easy post level 25ish (and AOE attacks just rule). Then I'll be returning to dear ole' SR. Promise.
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Did you notice? He didn't tease about anything...
THAT'S NOT STATESMAN TALKING! THIS IS ALL A PLOY BY CONTROLLERS!
THEY HOLD HIM PRISONER, CHAINMEZZED IN A BASEMENT!
Violence has its own economy. Therefore, be thoughtful and precise in your investment.
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No - we're not done with Super Reflexes. It's still "on the list" of ongoing issues, but it's sort of on a back burner right now.
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This makes a huge difference to me.
I realise that you can't talk specifics, mostly because I'll bet they haven't even been worked out yet. However, are you considering some way to mitigate the huge hit we take when that boss gets through our defences and then lands a critical.
I can't find it now, but many moons ago, one of the devs posted a SR / Inv comparison that said in effect that SR (i.e. DEF) was better at holding off minions, while Inv (i.e. damage resistance) was better against bosses.
For this reason, I was going to re-roll my Claws SR scrapper as Claws Inv, simply because my vision of her IS as the quintessential boss killer.
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After that, it's fixing the problem that the game is TOO easy post level 25ish (and AOE attacks just rule).
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This is a mistake IMHO. I know your the boss but I am begging you....pleading with you even. Do not turn this game into a group required mess. I am of the opinion the game is just fine, dificulty level wise, above 25. I think if you would just roll back the purple patch, you would solve a lot of problems. Support classes would feel loved again and tanks would be usefull.
Can I bump my own post? This was about the pairs of auto/toggle similar powers....
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Does anyone have numbers on those? How much do I benefit from Focused Fighting vs Dodge? If I have both slotted with 3 SO's, am I better off respec'ing to the permanent one only with 6 SOs and adding Combat Jumping or Maneuvers? What about numbers on the DEF bonus of Hasten or Stealth for comparison?
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Just because I'm still wondering where people get their numbers from, and I'd like to assess the state of my scrappers total DEF buff before I choose a new power. (3 bubbles from 30....)
Geko posted this when they revamped all SR powers a few patches ago.
Passives are 10 percent base +DEF.
Toggles are 20 percent base +DEF.
I'm probably going to regret this, but...
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I can't find it now, but many moons ago, one of the devs posted a SR / Inv comparison that said in effect that SR (i.e. DEF) was better at holding off minions, while Inv (i.e. damage resistance) was better against bosses.
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Actually, this is kinda interesting. This seems to be the common perception, but... in some (limited) ways it is actually the other way around.
At least when we compare pure def against pure res.
Take the case of 75% def vs. 90% res (cap). The def case will cap the mobs effective ToHit at the 5% cap up to mobs with 80% base ToHit.
Against mobs with 50% base ToHit (e.g. even minions), both cases will take the same amount of damage over time (0.1*0.5=0.05 for res vs. 0.05 for def)
For mobs with base ToHit lower than 50% (that would be lower than even minions) res would take less damage than def
(example at mob 40% base ToHit: 0.1*0.4=0.04 for res, still 0.05 for def)
For mobs with base ToHit between 50% and a certain point (which I will mention later) def takes less damage than res. The maximum difference between them would be at the point where def no longer caps the mob at 5% effective ToHit, in this case at 80%. Even bosses fall into this range.
(example at mob 80% base ToHit: 0.1*0.8=0.08 for res, 0.05 for def)
At one point both res and def will once again negate the same amount of damage. In this example this will be between 83-84 mob base ToHit. Obviously this point will vary depending on how much def we have in the def case.
After this point res will once again negate more damage than def.
So basically pure (relatively high) def is better than pure (capped) res at negating damage against even LTs and bosses.
Against higher level bosses res will once again be better unless we are talking about reeally high def.
And this is just in the sense of negating direct damage. res will run lower risk of getting taken down by a few lucky shots and def will be (much) better at avoiding secondary effects.
Now, neither of these cases should have any trouble against even mobs, so to make things interesting the comparison should be made against higher level mobs. Normally this would put bosses above the base ToHit where res once again becomes more effective (unless we have really high def), so basically the original claim is correct. Just wanted to point out that it isn't always the case.
And once we allow for the more real situations where people can have both def and res things rapidly become more complex...
Sorry, please return to your regularly scheduled posting.
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I dont see +heal or +recover being applicable to the SR set - and it steps on Regen anyway.
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Steps on Regen?
You do realize that EVERY other Scrapper Secondary has a self heal, right?
Do they step on Regen? Nope.
I think adding Dull Pain would work pretty well, only problem is that you'd have 3 Scrapper Secondaries with Dull Pain.
I say, combine the AOE/Ranged(maybe Melee too) and that will free up some slots for a self heal, and a little resistance.
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After that, it's fixing the problem that the game is TOO easy post level 25ish (and AOE attacks just rule).
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Statesman, could you qualify the game being too easy post level 25?
If you mean the difficulty, I agree. I'd love to see a bit more challenge.
If you mean the time investment, I disagree. For a non-PLing non-AoE'r it is a tad on the slow side, but manageable -- about 10 to 12 hours a level in the mid-30s.
I'd love to see encounters get tougher, but have a higher XP reward. Tougher encounters will lead to more time, but the increased XP reward will make it wash out, so in the end we have fewer, more challenging (and interesting!) fights rather than hordes of little challenge.
Thanks a lot for the great communication thus far from the entire NCSoft / Cryptic team, I appreciate it!
I have to say, though I certainly don't regret taking Reflexes, I'm glad the devs are going to consider looking at it (even if long-term). As others have pointed out, it's great until you get walloped for half your life, and then you have to hope you can get your health back up before the next blow lands. It's like gambling - but with your bodily health...
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If you mean the difficulty, I agree. I'd love to see a bit more challenge.
If you mean the time investment, I disagree.
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I must REALLY second this. Threadmilling in the upper 30's and later on seems excessive right now - and the missions just are not enough, you HAVE to threadmill. Especially if you like to solo.
Starting secondaries and see them develop in many ways feels more satisfying than threadmilling your 30+ character. But soon we will HAVE to do it, when prestige things open up only for those with really high level characters.
On the SR issue, I support the idea of combining Area and Ranged defense. What I want for the opened slots is damage resistance. Lucky and Evasion don't even need new names to become damage-resistance powers. I'd love auto powers along the lines of Resist Physical Damage and Resist Elements/Energy for these two slots. I've said it before - Invulnerability gets defense late in their progression, why shouldn't we get damage resistance late in ours?
There's a lot of talk about regeneration being vulnerable to one-hit-kills. Well, so is SR. Defense merely reduces the chance of the one-hit-kill, damage resistance can actually prevent it.
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Please keep in mind that AOE attacks don't rule as much from late-30's to endgame. Before that, yes. After that, an AOE alpha strike pretty much means a dead blaster.
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But one thing - the 25-38 section of the game is a LONG period of time for most players. It's when most of the non-blasters complain of the slow levelling time. Oddly enough, the AOE Blasters just mow through those levels, along with whoever they let group with them.
AOE needs to be toned down, and I'm glad they are looking at it. To the guy above who will leave when they do that ... Buh-bye.
This post is 100% right. yes, from 25-38 AE is overpowered, but from 39 on, it is pretty much a debt magnet. Unless you stick to even to +2 con minions only, but every group has bosses and LTs post 39, which means AE is a no-no, unless you have an empathy defender working overtime keeping your no HP, no defense having butt up.
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My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question