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On that topic, I'd say Spiderman, Nightcrawler, and Daredevil all have defenses that outshine their offenses. Should they be Tankers?
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These characters are about evasion, not mitigation, a style of defense thats available in the Scrapper pool. Its also available in the form of ice armor, but I think we can agree the concept behind evasion there is different and not something youd assing to any of these characters.
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You say Hulk is a scrapper because his offense outshines his defense, I say ok, but then wouldn't these other characters be Tankers for the same reason, and you say "no, because SR is a Scrapper power". Super Strength isn't a Scrapper power either, so doesn't that eliminate your "the Hulk is a Scrapper" argument?
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So, it sounds like youre asking for a level of power tied to a frequency that just isnt practical, as anything faster would be unbalanced compared to like-damage powers. The new Knockout Blow supposedly lets you one shot minions. However, it has an abysmally slow recharge time of 25 seconds, and costs over a quarter of your endurance pool to use. Now, thats fine. Knockout Blow is meant to be a situational power, not a bread and butter attack.
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I don't want all my attacks to be like Knockout Blow. I don't know where you got that idea. One or two is good, and I certainly wouldn't want to replace Jab, Punch or Haymaker to get them.
I'm pretty happy with Super Strength as it is now, damage wise, after the KB change. So we can drop that discussion, I'm done with it.
In fact, I'm done with discussing this with you altogether. You claim I'm taking it personally. I'm only taking it personally because you are making condescending remarks like "try swinging at the air once every 6 seconds", and you keep pulling crap out of thin air like "I want all my attacks to be like Knockout Blow" and "I want knockback removed to increase my DPS". You portray me as if my thought process was that of a 10 year old: "hey this makes me feel powerful lets do it all this way". If you want to present counter opinions, that is great, but you have been pretty insulting to everyone throughout this whole thread. I know I have been rude as well, but after asking you to tone it down if I would, I would expect a reasonable and considerate person to do so. Instead you decide to say it is my problem.
I really regret being supportive of you earlier.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
LoL. Wow, completely not what I expected, but ok.
Youve said repeatedly that you want to be able to one-shot villains, and how important that kind of comic feel is to you because 4 hits to take down a minion isn't cutting it. We all know about the new knockout blow on test center, and that power will now just barely let you one-shot a villain. So, of course Im going to use it as measuring stick on how a heavy hitting super-strength attack like you describe would work, why wouldnt I? It's better than guessing, and theyre certainly not going to give us super-strength attacks that allow us to one-shot villains and not have refresh/endurance penalties similar to knockout blow. X damage comes with X penalties. I fail to see what you misunderstood in all of that, and I think I explained it pretty clearly above, but thats fine.
Try swinging at the air once every 6 seconds wasnt a condescending remark, but take it as you wish. I stood up from my chair thinking I dont consider S.S. punch to be very fast. Let me see what that 6 seconds between punches is like without all the other attacks in between so I dont have to load up my character and check. (jab).. (wait).. (wait).. (jab) Man, thats pretty slow. I wouldnt have suggested trying it if I hadnt done it first myself. Frankly, you see insults where they dont exist and Im not going to apologize for false emotions youre pinning on me.
I dont think my last post was insulting at all. Maybe you're just angry Im disagreeing with you. Theres not much I can do about that.
How can I find myself agreeing with both Genesis and Liquid? Maybe they aren't actually disagreeing with each other...
I am not perfectly satisfied with the SS line because of the changes to Knockout Blow, but it is enough to silence most of my arguments about what should be done for Update 2. The power really needed a high damage optional attack that had that "Clobbering Time!" feel.
I personally would prefer that attack be Haymaker, but that's beside the point.
One-shotting a minion every swing? No. One shotting a minion once per fight as often as a Blaster can Sniper one, under the same restrictions? OK by me (I sniper minions from inside melee range with my Blaster alt all of the time, silly, but fun).
Having most of the attacks in Super Strength be relatively fast? Also cool.
I think that 2 players with the same powersets, should be able to cover completely different playstyles and character designs by picking different powers. SS might be a little closer to being that, now.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Where is it written in scripture that a power called "Unyeilding Stance" has to ROOT its possessor? It makes a little more sense in the Stone Armor set, but not that much. It sure is NOT standard comic fare that a Brick-type hero has to completely immobilize himself to resist status effects.
Why couldn't Unyeilding Stance just slow us? Or perhaps, if you are worried that Super Speed would obviate the slow effect, put a movement cap on US (like normal, non sprinting movement).
I will also agree that making a power like Invincibility, which depends on having a bunch of enemies around you, is inherently incompatible with knockback powers, and shows that someone did not think things through.
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Where is it written in scripture that a power called "Unyeilding Stance" has to ROOT its possessor? It makes a little more sense in the Stone Armor set, but not that much. It sure is NOT standard comic fare that a Brick-type hero has to completely immobilize himself to resist status effects.
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First of all, wrong thread bud. We discussing Super Strenght damage output here, at most compare it with other tanker damage sets.
But to awnser your question:
It is a STANCE. If you are not familiar with it, the exagerated and fake martial arts stance makes you have a perfect guard against some types of attack, but as the name implies, it is a stance, you MUST stay still to perform it properly. Why does it stops mental status? THAT is a mistery.
Bah! If SS functioned like Axe this thread probably would have never been born. There might have been a "take knockback out of superstrength" thread, of course...
I never quite agree with balance arguments--especially when someone tells me that won't work in MMORPG. RPGs were only board in the 70's, dang it. We don't know what really works in that genre yet. How can we tell what works in MMORPG? They're just too young..
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Gang,
I'm holding off on touching Super Strength until we tackle a somewhat greater issue with Tankers - namely that they lack that "comic book feel." Specifically, you'd like to see Super Strength be something somewhat, well, "Hulk-ish." But currently, Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.
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Sweet. Reason for guarded optimism. OK I'll bite.
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Axe is the harder hitting but slower powerset, while super-strength is the weaker but faster hitting one. In the end, if the DPSs are comparable, what exactly is the problem? I dont have the numbers in front of me to tell you that this is true, but I can say that this debate has come up several times now, even in beta, and after the players compared real numbers theyd always seem to come to the conclusion that the overall damage output was comparable. Maybe something has changed since then, but to know for sure youd really need a listing of each power in these two sets using data from two identical level players with no enhancers slotted.
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Just to be honest if we know what enhancements are in the power and what level they are we can figure them out of the equation. The power boost on enh is very well established.
And my other point would be that while finding exact DPS for a powerset is relatively easy there are many more considerations to take into account. Like figuring the best damage possible for each set under ideal conditions (could fit a whole boatload of assumptions in here, always hit or hit for exact percentage, knockback or no knockback or figure for knockback probability in all attacks then figure for time moving, does the attack string allow for the target to be killed without regenerating any damage? etc...), exactly what powers to use in what combinations and how to slot them for maximum damage. This can mean some slotted for recharge and some for pure damage and some for recharge, damage, and accuracy. It seems a rather daunting but possible task.
Edit: I didn't read the whole thread so I have no idea if any of the above was mentioned or not. Sorry if I stepped on anyones toes.
I've read most of this these post, but many more have been added since, so hopefully I'm not repeating an idea. The argument has been made that at high lvls a well built controller replaces a Tanker. And we want SS to be more "comic book feel" as Statesman said. Well, in comics, I like seeing 3 things from Super Strength Tankers.
1. They pick up stuff and throw them (Hurl is too slow, but I would keep it, after respec, if it had Propel animations or a small AoE damage or knockdown effect around the target. just more personality for us folks that use hasten and don't need a filler power.
2. they grab people and give them the "hug of love". Or grab them with one hand and that person doesn't move. Single Target, Melee range Minor DoT, Hold. Perhaps its a toggle that has chances every tick to be broken. (I know, I know Animation/Game engine nightmare. I'll bring you coffee the nights you stay up late making it happen.)
3. they grab people and throw them. I won't be too greedy. They dont have to throw them into other people. Perhaps a better fix for Hurl is to convert it into this style power. The amount of time that it takes to pick up a badden throw them, they land and get up, is very hold like and very tanker like. I think #1 is only possible if "items of opportunity" were available but piece of pavement it thrown otherwise.
SIDE NOTE: in comics they carry big heavy stuff around with no effort. I see no way to place this casual ability into combat but perhaps a Super Group building a base in later releases should get a building discount for every Super Strength Tanker on their team, because they replace bull dozers and cranes. 
Like the new doors, and keys, you could add heavy items to move in mission space. You could also make non animate items easier for the SS guy to get through (I.E. make the doors on cells, or even in missions take more damage from SS guys.) Make us able to batter through locked doors. Then I'm a big fan of doubling the brawl damage of SS just make it clear we're strong.
Jack
Jack Wolfe Prototype Super Tank, over 25 million in damage taken in the service of others
My 360 hates me and writes about it
Jack's X-Box's Blog
I will love the light for it shows me the way, yet I will endure the darkness for it shows me the stars. ---Og Mandino---
/bump
//make me sticky
I'm with you on some of this stuff, but alas I don't see any powers in the sets being swapped out. However, that bit about altering the animations on hurl I do think would be possible. I'd love to throw the occasional car or forklift, or refrigerator etc...That'd just be fun. It has been mentioned quite a bit so when things settle down and the game is more balanced we may see it. Keep your fingers crossed but don't expect it any time soon.
And I'd like to add to your list the "grab the telephone pole/tank/car and swing it in an arc in front of you" attack. The problem with this is we already have footstomp and for balance reasons I don't think we really need more than one damaging AoE attack. Perhaps someday we will get a choice of two powers at level 38. Say take Footstomp or Object swing, we get one or the other but not both. The swing could be a wide cone with a relatively short length and no cone range extensions accepted, while footstomp stays the same. Just a thought thinking long term. I know that won't be in the offing any time in the near future if at all. Maybe a prestige AT power though...
With the changes in store for SS in update 2 I'm largely happy with superstrength now. We got our big hitter and with it's end cost it's not useless. I intend to largely use it against LTs with stun effects to neutralize them before they get their attacks in on me. Any other tweaks I feel can wait a bit till we see how things pan out overall. Supposedly there's a serious look at AoE coming in the future that likely will change the face of CoH.
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I've read most of this these post, but many more have been added since, so hopefully I'm not repeating an idea. The argument has been made that at high lvls a well built controller replaces a Tanker. And we want SS to be more "comic book feel" as Statesman said. Well, in comics, I like seeing 3 things from Super Strength Tankers.
1. They pick up stuff and throw them (Hurl is too slow, but I would keep it, after respec, if it had Propel animations or a small AoE damage or knockdown effect around the target. just more personality for us folks that use hasten and don't need a filler power.
2. they grab people and give them the "hug of love". Or grab them with one hand and that person doesn't move. Single Target, Melee range Minor DoT, Hold. Perhaps its a toggle that has chances every tick to be broken. (I know, I know Animation/Game engine nightmare. I'll bring you coffee the nights you stay up late making it happen.)
3. they grab people and throw them. I won't be too greedy. They dont have to throw them into other people. Perhaps a better fix for Hurl is to convert it into this style power. The amount of time that it takes to pick up a badden throw them, they land and get up, is very hold like and very tanker like. I think #1 is only possible if "items of opportunity" were available but piece of pavement it thrown otherwise.
SIDE NOTE: in comics they carry big heavy stuff around with no effort. I see no way to place this casual ability into combat but perhaps a Super Group building a base in later releases should get a building discount for every Super Strength Tanker on their team, because they replace bull dozers and cranes.
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While reading the lastest CoH Comic (which I received in the mail yesterday), it became painfully clear what's missing in Super Strength heroes as implemented in the game.
Even in the comic (which is based on the game), heroes can grab villains, pick them up, etc.
A large part of being a Super Strength hero (comic-book-wise) is picking up, grabbing, smashing, throwing, and so forth. Very little of this is actually possible in the game, as it stands now.
I realise why we can't interact with objects in the environment. It's an unfortunate fact that there would always be someone who would find a way to use the ability to 'grief' others.
Still, it certainly seems possible that at least some of these things could be implemented within the existing framework:
<ul type="square">[*]We already have Hurl, just add some variety of objects and the power will at least somewhat emulate the idea of grabbing a nearby object and throwing it.[*]Grab a nearby object and use it as a weapon. Melee attack but implemented in a way similar to Hurl. Hero grabs a trashcan/mailbox/bench/etc and starts pounding his foe with it.[*]Wrap their arms around a foe and hold him in place, possibly even squeezing for damage.[*]Grab a foe and hold them up in the air, rendering them temporarily helpless. No real damage, but still useful (and very comic-book-like).[*]Pick up one foe and throw them into another. This would likely have a long animation time, but would damage/knock-down(-back) both foes.[/list]These are just a few thoughts off the top of my head, some of them derived from ideas you mentioned in your post.
Blurg
(Science Tanker)
[i]"City of Heroes is at its best as a Superhero game that's implemented as an MMO, rather than as an MMO that just happens to be about Superheroes..."[/i]
I'm bringing this thread back from the dead because of the proposed changes to Rage. The initial thread is a consensus of SS Tanker opinion at the time on how to fix Super Strength. The goal was not to get SS closer to Scrapper damage, or even to Fire Tanker damage, but to get it in line with the rest of the Tanker secondaries. The proposed changes to Rage were as follows:
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2) Rage changes. Drop the disorient component and put in a -DEF penalty while in use (-25% suggested) and a 75% endurance drop at the end. Raise the recharge time to 8 minutes with a 2 minute buff duration. Alternative suggestion is to make the disorient component a Mag 1 disorient instead of the current high Mag disorient.
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This was way before the changes in I3, so the def reduction is bigger now than it was at the time. The rage change was listed at #2 in order of priority, behind putting damage in KO Blow (which did happen).
The rest of the thread has some good discussion about alternatives to Rage, but I didn't see any post that claimed that the current version of Rage was "overpowered." The posts either agree that Rage had too big of a penalty or it was fine "as is."
EveryNighters:
Tar Heel Lvl 50 Inv/SS Tank
Knight of Purgatory Lvl 50 Fire/Ax Tank
Kilmainham Wall Lvl 50 Stone/Stone Tank
Re-Fridgerator Lvl 50 Ice/Ice Tank
Yankee Doodle Dandy Lvl 50 Will/Eng Tank
Teen Tar Heel Lvl 50 MA/SR Scrapper
EvilNighters:
Tar Heel Dead Lvl 50 DD Brute
The current test Rage is not even at all viable. -100% end is tantamount to a death sentence. Losing all toggles from trying to use the SS verison of Build-Up is not an option. Rage needs to be tweaked into something remotely useful (like leaving it alone in the first place) or just tweak SS and give us Build-Up.
You just have to wonder about the love affair that the developers seem to have with separating Inv/SS tanks from their endurance. It's like they are on a holy crusade to make sure we lose our toggles and die at some point if we reach our full potential.
I would like an explaination of the why. Why do Inv/SS tankers need two powers (Unstoppable, and now Rage) which deprive them of all their endurance when they expire?
Super Strength Powers--
Jab--hideously underpowered which even 6 slotting doesn't help significantly, and unconvincing animation. I wouldn't have even take this power if I had a choice, which I didn't. Even Boxing is better.
Punch--a poor cousin of Air Superiority (which does the same damage and has more reliable knockdown including knocking things out of the sky which Punch will not do). Moreover the animation for punch is not even a punch it's a single handed smash.
Haymaker--decent damage, but the animation doesn't look anything like a real haymaker, it looks exactly like Air Superiority. What's with that?
Handclap-- The cousin of Thunderclap which I just respec'd out of my Storm Defender because it was only marginally useful some of the time, and had a tendancy to get him killed. Something I can leave out of my powers witout missing it at all.
Knock Out Blow--Finally a power that makes me feel like I have super strength.
Rage-- OK I like what rage does in terms of making my other powers seem like super strength. I don't like the down sides--either the stun, or the loss of endurance. I could live with the stun with mobile UY. But why the drop of endurance which drops my toggles with an additional endurance expense up front?
Hurl-- range is way too short should be the range of the outcast Bricks in Steel Canyon. The damage should be equivalent to haymaker.
Honestly we're super strong and too weak to throw rocks more than a few feet?. Why can lava MOB's from the Hollows throw huge rocks blaster distances for huge damage and my high level "super strong" hero can't heft a rock the same size for more than a few feet and it does weak Moderate damage?
Things that make you say hmmmm.
Foot Stomp-- the only AOE in the set that does damage, a good power, but costly in endurance.
Why did most of us take SS? Because it was the fist fighting power. We wanted to be the strong guy. True, energy melee is a fist fighting power, but it's energy and your hands glow. In a way I wish I'd taken EM instead of SS. However, I imagine they are going to be the next ones hit with the redesign from hell bat.
Frankly this game is turning into a nightmare with regards to my Invuln/SS tanker. It just makes me feel bad what's going on here. I am so dissappointed at this point in the direction the developers are taking Inv/SS tanks and especially the way in which they are doing this.
Alternative suggestions?
1) Switch Boxing and Jab-- make the SS one do more stuns.
2) Get rid of Hand Clap and replace it with an attack that does some damage and does an AOE knockdown/stun around the target.
3) Change the animation on Haymaker to look more like KO blow with a smaller faster wind up.
4) Don't drop our endurance to zero when we use rage. One drop to zero is enough in the tanker line.
5) Up the damage and range of Hurl and make it a power people want instead of one people aviod.
Fun things that it would have been nice to have in this power set:
Throw Rock: Minor damage + knockback/knockdown + stun/sleep equivalent to bean bag. (think Mr. Incredible knocking out the guard with a rock).
Bash: pull up and fencepost, parking meter, street sign and whack the bad guys up oneside and down the other (three or four hits--similar in damage to shawdow maul).
Knockback with AOE knockdown: when you knock a foe back into a group of foes there would be an AOE knockdown around his point of impact.
If anybody should have a chance of knocking down an arch villian, shouldn't it be a super strength tank? In the comix they are always knocking back/down arch villians...even if they have to soften them up first before they do.
Some truely great ideas...would love to test them!
Regs,
muffinlad
Yeah, the animations for Jab, Punch and Haymaker are really pretty generic "Hulk SMASH" kind of stuff. Which might be the intent I suppose, but a couple more convincing actual punching attacks would look nicer. The sonic boom effects are cool. You might have missed the time early on when KO Blow did about the same (or less) damage as Jab. Ugh. If you did, count yourself lucky.
Your ideas sound good. Hand Clap and Hurl especially could use some real spicing up. Not every power has to be awesome, but they should at least be generally useful and somewhat interesting. Hand Clap is entirely too situational and Hurl is just plain slow/boring. Laser Beam Eyes from the Epic pool is exponentially more useful (and cooler) than Hurl even though it doesn't do as much damage. I always envisioned Hurl as being able to pick up and throw big stuff like dumpsters and cars, not just the same hunk of concrete over and over again. Damage wouldn't be a big issue if you could lift a car over your head and throw it at a Malta Titan. Or better still, lift up one Titan and throw it at another. That would just be insanely freakin' cool.
I'm surprised this thread is still here, haven't seen it forever.
Nice that it still remains.
I respeced out of Hurl as soon as I got it, having never seen it before (makes sense why). IF they upped the range or made the animatics more impressive, I'd probably grab it. Just looked too stupid, adn they range is so lacking, I might as well just run in.
I'm surprised this thread is still here, haven't seen it forever.
Nice that it still remains.
I respeced out of Hurl as soon as I got it, having never seen it before (makes sense why). IF they upped the range or made the animatics more impressive, I'd probably grab it. Just looked too stupid, adn the range is so lacking, I might as well just run in.
Dude... if they dont make me feel super soon with super strength im gonna scream. They should make hurl more like repel... except only generates the big ibjects like cars, refridgerators, and forklifts... up the damage and range.
(Even if it was just the animation id take it for the animation alone)
Replace handclap with this... throw a dude into the mob for some area of effect damage. (even if it sucked id take it)
SS rage should take away some HP instea of TOTAL END CRASH!!!! FOR GOD SAKE!!!! SS DAMAGE SUCKS ALREADY DEVS!!!! RAGE SAVED IT!!!! like say 15%? even that is a bit harsh though
i never understood why jab stuns less than a power pool power... (boxing)
heh. I just want an actual PUNCH animation with the punch power.
Also yeah hurl's animation time to be cut down.
A lot of good ideas here. I sure hope the devs are still reading this thread. I played an INV/SS tank up to 23 in beta and now have him up to 33 in post-release. Here is my two cents on the issues:
1. animations: I don't think they are too bad. They are definitely more Hulk-like than I would prefer. They could use some improvement and I know the devs have the chops for it. They did an awesome job on remaking some of the Martial Arts moves!
2. Cptn_Courageous did a break down on what each SS power needs and I totally agree. Jab and Punch are pretty useless except as cycle powers to use while Haymaker and Knockout Blow are recharging. On my original build I had Punch six slotted; I respeced it down to two slots and it is about as useful. Hurl's range is weak and Hand Clap needs some love. It's good at lower levels if you need to get a bunch of mobs off your butt in a hurry but that's it. And it really annoys your teammates when they try and use AOE and debuffs because you are scattering mobs all over creation.
3. Tanks vs. Scrappers: Tank defense should be directly proportional to Scrapper offense, as their offense should be to Scrapper defense. I'm no math whiz but have played both ATs and the ratio does not seem to match IMHO.
4. SS secondary is knockback but it got changed to knockdown. If you want knockback you have to slot your attacks with knockback enhancements, and even then it doesn't happen often. Some players liked the change but I do not. I think at least one attack should have solid knockback effect. I loved putting a little "English" (for you pool players out there) on a mob to direct them where they needed to go, mainly AOE effects like Fiery Rain and Ice Patch. Plus it was just plain cool to watch, it really made me feel like I had SS when you hit a mob and they fly across the room!
5. Bottom line is that SS is the weakest of the tanker offense sets. Their secondary effect is weak since when you knockdown a mob they get back on their feet almost instantly, sometimes they just flip in the air and land back on their feet! I am not crying nerf for other sets here, but other sets like Mace and Fire Melee are far superior in damage potential.
6. All in all I like the changes made in update 3. Unstoppable was not meant to be perma. If it was, they would have made it a toggle. Never count on a perma power, in any set or AT, to last as far as the devs are concerned. I respeced it out and now use Unyielding. Thank goodness they took the root out! Now at last we have an effective mezz/hold resist power. It was the Achilles Heel of the set.
The devs have shown they are listening with their changes to UY, Knockout, etc. I hear they are expanding the radius of Foot Stomp on test server and it sounds good from the players I have talked to that are testing. I haven't played my tank for months and now after update 3 I am enjoying him once again. But SS tanks, and tanks in general, still need more work.
I just can't believe that the devs are even happy with Hurl. It must have been the last powre they designed and had to hit a dead line and just scrabbled it together. Weak damage, Short Range, Long animation, and the animation itself sucks.
Even if they fixed the damage and animation, I still wouldn't want it due to the range problem. More often then not, you trigger the Aggro of whatever mob you are attacking, which just gives them the opportunity to take some pot shots while your taking your time to grab a rock out of the ground.
I play an INV tank, and unless they fixed it, we basically have no DEF agianst ranged attacks. If I trigger a high level mob and don't move in quick for close combat, my HP starts taking a dive. This was the biggest reason I respeced out of Hurl, I'd trigger the mob because of Hurls short range, and get blasted away during the long animation. Even if the animation was faster, it's just more logical to just move right in.
Another way I'd like to see Hurl changed, is to have the vertical range not be limited to the same range as the horizontal. Basically, If I have to have a short horizontal range, that's fine, if I'm still able to stand on a building and hurl a large stone down on foes that are only a few feet away horizontally but 20, 30 ft. or more below me, and same with foes flying directly above me.
Lastly, I'd really like it if they put some "Super" into Super Strength. I like that they fixed KO Blow, and I do feel pretty super when I use that and even Haymaker. I'd really like to see Hand Clap, & Hurl made more usefull.
OK, one more thing. Anyone wonder what they were thinking when they named Jab and Punch?
I still think if they corrected the scaling factor of Tanker attacks that it would solve a lot of issues. You would still have the slow attacks, and you would get the high damage, but only later in the game where its needed.
This still doesn't fix the post 30 Tanker problems. I personally don't see how that problem CAN be fixed, so I would just like to see the Tanker come into a ton of damage capablility at that point. Hey, if the Tanker DID come into a ton of damage dealing at that point, maybe our role in groups would be changed a little... we now deal damage instead of just take it?
30+ needs to change. A role in groups other than Provoke bot needs to be determined by the Devs. Until this is done give me more damage and I'll be happy.