I will laugh soooo hard if a simple programming change makes it so a provoked/taunted PVP player can only target the taunter. Then I will laugh soo much harder as everyone begs Tanks to come with them on PVP raids.
Thanks for the reply, Krunch.
While you're about, a quick math question: How much damage per swing would you need to add to bring SS up to 75% of, say, a Martial Arts Scrappers' DPS. Let's assume Hasten and Stamina are used since the Devs obviously are.
And would that be a fair comparison?
Sorry to work your math brain, but mine is not up to it.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Krunch, 39 is the highest SS/Inv Tanker I’ve had (and life up to that point seemed fine
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Wow I am impressed. I hate US but felt I could no longer avoid it at level 26 when sent Lost Hunting in TV. Those large multi-mezzing mobs would completely overwhelm any psi-defense my defender friends provided me. So I gave in and picked up US 
I am also jolly impressed by the numbers of people in this thread without Provoke and Taunt. Bravo! Tankers after my own heart!
Oh and I never wanted to be the Hulk, I wanted to be Captain Britain (as written my Moore not Claremont *spit* )
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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How on earth did you get up to L39 and not run into multiple stun issues without either US or Unstoppable?
Do you just enjoy sleeping/drunken walking alot?
Or did you solely kill 5th Column (sans Vamps) in all that time?
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I answered this actually a page back.
Everyone has access to discipline inspirations. I make sure I always have a few on hand for emergencies, and I stock up on them beforehand when I know Im entering a mission with villains that cause stun/mez problems (like the Rikti and Devouring Earth). Theres nothing really difficult about planning ahead. I dont think Ive ever walked blindly into a mission and said Holy smokes, its a Rikti trap!. /panic
Other players that I group with frequently have powers that aid in protecting me from effects like mez. So, there are a couple of options right there that guarantee I can avoid these nasty effects a majority of the time. Its not like every Rikti can mez, and when I run into a Rikti Mentalist I just make sure to take him out of the picture as quickly as possible before doing anything else.
The players I group with also know to ease up on the offense if I do happen to get put into a situation where I cant react because Im mesmerized, because they know if they do this the villains that were agro on me before I got stunned will still be concentrating on me after I recover. Thus I dont have to worry about teammate casualties while Im taking a 5 second snooze.
The people I play with know their characters. They may be more frail than a Tanker, but they know they're driving around superheroes that are capable of dealing with the same threats I can in their own way. If a villain gets past me because I'm momentarily in la-la land and latches onto the Defender, she doesnt panic and run around screaming for help while it kills her, she simply proceeds to kick its rear with her own situational powers.
In the end, no Unyielding Stance needed, and complete freedom of movement 100% of the time. I cant imagine playing an action-based game like this any other way.
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Gang,
I'm holding off on touching Super Strength until we tackle a somewhat greater issue with Tankers - namely that they lack that "comic book feel." Specifically, you'd like to see Super Strength be something somewhat, well, "Hulk-ish." But currently, Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.
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Well at least that gives us some light at the end of the tunnel. 
Before Issue 2 hit test, I was hoping that some changes would be made to get my tanker out of retirement. Maybe Issue 3 now?
Thanks for the reply States', it is good to know you are hearing our concerns, and I look forward to seeing what you have in mind.
Now if you wouldn't mind, quit being so coy and give us some insight so we can flame each other all to [censored] about it's impact on the game. 
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Depends the build. Fire/Fire Tankers can do 75% DPS of most Scrapper builds. They will also kill alot more at once then most Scrapper builds (barring Spines) because of the combined AOEs of that build.
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Wanted to note, i started playing super strenght tanker, then did a fire fire one, and now an axe one. I can compare the 3 first hand. The one that does most damage IS axe. Fire melee does soso damage (never compared much the numbers but it is not really that good), there are only 2 AoE, unless you count our endurance drain that is usable every 2 minutes and does 8 points of damage at lvl 32, or fire breath that is cone, not AoE.
The reason fire/fire is so hot is not because of fire melee, it is because of the Burn power that is part of Fire Aura. THAT power in my eyes is an issue. I guess taking away the auto hit nature would fix it, though, i know most burn tankers would cry like babies if that happened, but if it is for the good of the game i say do it! *and make the burn status buff last longer*
There is also another constant toggle AOE attack but it also is from the primary power set, and i like that one, not too much damage and it can miss. That one is nicely balanced.
Just wanted to make sure people know that fire melee is not that high on the damage list, it is the defensive set that give us this power.
[ QUOTE ]
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How on earth did you get up to L39 and not run into multiple stun issues without either US or Unstoppable?
Do you just enjoy sleeping/drunken walking alot?
Or did you solely kill 5th Column (sans Vamps) in all that time?
[/ QUOTE ]
I answered this actually a page back.
Everyone has access to discipline inspirations. I make sure I always have a few on hand for emergencies, and I stock up on them beforehand when I know Im entering a mission with villains that cause stun/mez problems (like the Rikti and Devouring Earth). Theres nothing really difficult about planning ahead. I dont think Ive ever walked blindly into a mission and said Holy smokes, its a Rikti trap!. /panic
Other players that I group with frequently have powers that aid in protecting me from effects like mez. So, there are a couple of options right there that guarantee I can avoid these nasty effects a majority of the time. Its not like every Rikti can mez, and when I run into a Rikti Mentalist I just make sure to take him out of the picture as quickly as possible before doing anything else.
The players I group with also know to ease up on the offense if I do happen to get put into a situation where I cant react because Im mesmerized, because they know if they do this the villains that were agro on me before I got stunned will still be concentrating on me after I recover. Thus I dont have to worry about teammate casualties while Im taking a 5 second snooze.
The people I play with know their characters. They may be more frail than a Tanker, but they know they're driving around superheroes that are capable of dealing with the same threats I can in their own way. If a villain gets past me because I'm momentarily in la-la land and latches onto the Defender, she doesnt panic and run around screaming for help while it kills her, she simply proceeds to kick its rear with her own situational powers.
In the end, no Unyielding Stance needed, and complete freedom of movement 100% of the time. I cant imagine playing an action-based game like this any other way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah.
Kind of reminds me of the time I made a solo capable, melee based Controller. Fun as heck.
Hey Kunoichi,
I wouldn't be able to give you those numbers (I'm not that total number cruncher you're pegging me for btw). I would tend to think they're rather subjective too.
I suspect several people may already have mentioned this, but one thing I noticed dabbling in the WoW stress test is that when I played with a Warrior my first thought was "Hey, maybe *this* is how Tankers should work!"
Basically, Warriors special abilities don't use "endurance" as in other games, they use "rage", and rage starts at zero and goes up as you get hit. So it's not specifically that the warrior gets more powerful the more damage he takes, but it basically fuels his ability to use his powers.
I suspect it may be just too divergent a mechanic to be worked into CoH, and I certainly haven't played with it long term to know if it has other complications, but it's an intriguing idea. (To me, at least.)
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I am not sure of the exact text of the following quote nor who said it, but it goes something like 'A reasonable man changes himself to fit the world, and an unreasonable man tries to change the world to fit him'. I guess I am an unreasonable man, I can live with that.
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You forgot the last, and most important part, of that quote:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. (George Bernard Shaw)
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
[ QUOTE ]
Super Strength is a poor cousin to Scrapper powers - which seems somewhat out of place. Don't worry - what we're looking at as a fix for ALL Tankers addresses this issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, as Krunch said, Super Strength is underpowered compared to other Tanker powers. Please put it, and Ice and War Mace and Stone Melee, on par with Axe, late-game Energy Melee, and Firey Melee. You can do your Global Tanker fix, that's great, but you need to balance the Tanker secondaries too.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
[ QUOTE ]
Despite the obvious dislike many of you have for rooting powers, it seems that everyone would rather have powers changed so they mesh better with the rooted concept rather than pushing for a change in powers like Unyielding Stance which cause you to be stuck in one spot in the first place.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong. This push was attempted numerous times in beta. I believe Havok's words were "They are married to the concept of the root". We have given up on this because Cryptic is being bull-headed about it (no offense meant, you just are, guys). Someone in charge, possibly Statesman, thinks it is cool, and therefore doesn't seem to care that the majority of us don't find it to be any fun at all.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Krunch I think most are with you on this as am I keep up the good work.
For some reason all this talk about Inv/SS makes me think of the Song Invincible by Pat Benetar. 
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Everyone has access to discipline inspirations.
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I'm sorry but, I did this for a few DE missions, and ran out of disciplines 1/4 to 1/2 way through them. One insp won't even last one fight if you have about 4 people, unless you are teamed with some kind of Uber AoE blaster. I just decided that soloing these missions while my friends were offline was less (but not much) of a hassle than having to run back to a contact to buy disciplines after every 10 or so fights.
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Other players that I group with frequently have powers that aid in protecting me from effects like mez.
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Aren't you lucky. I had that for 25 levels, then my Empathy Defender teammate was so horrendously bored with just being around to CM me that he changed to a blaster. Then he got so bored with the game that he quit.
I think you just have a good, patient team that keeps you from noticing how crappy the Inv/SS build really is. I had that too a couple months back. I totally had no problem not having US, and doing substandard damage, until 80% of my team quit the game. I think I was even on here telling people that Knockback was a benefit and they didn't know how to use it, just like you are now. Oh how times change.
Those of us who don't have Empathy or Force Field defenders following us around need something, and US is all we have until 32, and Unstoppable... blah. I just want Integration or Practiced Brawler, not the uber-unkillable power that shuts off my toggles and makes me risk instant death every 2 minutes.
I agree that removing knockback was a much, much less desirable idea than removing the root from US, but we've been shot down on that already. We are being forced to choose between undesirable options, since we have been told flat-out no on the desirable ones.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Guys, I appreciate the discussion on Unyielding Stance and Unstoppable. It is a good one, but this is not the appropriate place for it.
This is the Super Strength thread.
I reposted a few comments here for everyone's discussion since it had already been touched upon there.
What is wrong with tanks
Let's not clutter up Krunch's thread and distract those interested in discussing Super Strength.
In the Training Room, Knockout Blow has had its endurance cost and damage increased to equal Total Focus/Seismic Smash.
Holy cow, Volante! So THAT'S what I've been missing. Knockout Blow is now the BOMB. I love it. I actually 1 shotted a minion (think i had to swallow a rage, but still)... Suddenly, I feel considerably more super.
Thanks Devs!
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In the Training Room, Knockout Blow has had its endurance cost and damage increased to equal Total Focus/Seismic Smash.
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See? Changes can happen. Just a little patience.
Thanks Volante
Base damage at level 35 on KB is 114.75. That's up from 63.17 when it was "superior-" on test yesterday.
Yeehaw!
I feel bad though for the people that don't like the animation. I happen to love it, but since nothing else in the set has been increased, those who won't take it due to its silly animation didn't get anything.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
I'm bet eventually you'll be able to pick your own animation. So hopefully it will only be a temporary problem.
Just try and pretend that that your tanks is goofing around while summoning up their full power!
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I'm all for a little Hulkishness, just as long as I don't have to morph into a huge green half-naked man.
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You want to morph into a huge green fully-naked man?
The changes to Knockout Blow sound very tempting. Suddenly I'm thinking about getting more offensive powers rather than the nearly strictly defense path I've been running.
I've heard it said if you don't build heavily defensive, you're just a gimpy scrapper.
KO blow = AWESOME
I can confirm the following:
<ul type="square">[*]KO Blow at 24 does 82.55 damage to a white-con Warrior. [*]KO Blow has a range of at least 2x that of haymaker [*]I was able to hit an enemy from behind with KO blow from about regular melee distance, while haymaker, jab and punch all "glonged" as out of range[/list]
In short: AWESOME. This power has gone from being on my respec list to my "gotta add slots" list.
*edit* KO Blow on Live also has the same extended range; I just never confirmed it before.
Yeah, Knockout Blow has come a long way...maybe far enough that it might indeed warrant a switch with Foot Stomp, but we'll have to wait and see. So far I don't think the Devs have ever altered the progression order of a powerset, just the powers themselves.
At level 38, the new KB with six damage enhancers can one-shot minions and allows me to down a LT in three blows. With Rage its even nicer. I smacked an even con for 490... I think I went into shock for a little while after that (me, not my tanker).
If its damage + disorient is kept this way, I think the 25 sec timer is quite acceptable.
KO Blow 6 slotted (damage) with Rage on against an even con minion at L38: 489 damage.
All I can say is ..... WOW (and I ain't talkin' about a Blizzard game here)!
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I personally like Footstomp the way it is (recharge and damage wise). It will be a ton better (playability wise) without the KB in it when that change gets put in.
I think there are too many higher damaging AOEs floating around and that compounds the upper end game problem. AOEs for Tankers (again, in my mind) should be lower damage, agro holding types of powers. The kind of power that makes mobs go "Oh [censored]!!! Get that guy first!!!!".
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All well and good - but that just ARTIFICIALLY makes Tankers more dangerous. Having the Computer react that way just because they are TOLD to in their programming is just .. the Devs Cheating.
Tanks SHOULD be dangerous in their own right (also important once PvP is introduced), not just have MOBS tricked by computer code into 'Thinking' they are.
Keep fighting the Good Fight Krunch, and hopefully the Devs will Hear Our Pain.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question